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From: will.deacon@arm.com (Will Deacon)
To: linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org
Subject: [RFC PATCH] riscv/locking: Strengthen spin_lock() and spin_unlock()
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 10:39:16 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20180226103915.GA8736@arm.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <563431d0-4fb5-9efd-c393-83cc5197e934@nvidia.com>

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 11:47:57AM -0800, Daniel Lustig wrote:
> On 2/22/2018 10:27 AM, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> > On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 10:13:17AM -0800, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> >> So we have something that is not all that rare in the Linux kernel
> >> community, namely two conflicting more-or-less concurrent changes.
> >> This clearly needs to be resolved, either by us not strengthening the
> >> Linux-kernel memory model in the way we were planning to or by you
> >> strengthening RISC-V to be no weaker than PowerPC for these sorts of
> >> externally viewed release-acquire situations.
> >>
> >> Other thoughts?
> > 
> > Like said in the other email, I would _much_ prefer to not go weaker
> > than PPC, I find that PPC is already painfully weak at times.
> 
> Sure, and RISC-V could make this work too by using RCsc instructions
> and/or by using lightweight fences instead.  It just wasn't clear at
> first whether smp_load_acquire() and smp_store_release() were RCpc,
> RCsc, or something else, and hence whether RISC-V would actually need
> to use something stronger than pure RCpc there.  Likewise for
> spin_unlock()/spin_lock() and everywhere else this comes up.
> 
> As Paul's email in the other thread observed, RCpc seems to be
> OK for smp_load_acquire()/smp_store_release() at least according
> to the current LKMM herd spec.  Unlock/lock are stronger already
> I guess.  But if there's an active proposal to strengthen them all
> to something stricter than pure RCpc, then that's good to know.
> 
> My understanding from earlier discussions is that ARM has no plans
> to use their own RCpc instruction for smp_load_acquire() instead
> of their RCsc instructions.  Is that still true?  If they were to
> use the RCpc load there, that would cause them to have the same
> problem we're discussing here, right?  Just checking.

Agreed. No plans to use the LDAPR instruction in Linux.

Will

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Will Deacon <will.deacon@arm.com>
To: Daniel Lustig <dlustig@nvidia.com>
Cc: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Andrea Parri <parri.andrea@gmail.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Palmer Dabbelt <palmer@sifive.com>,
	Albert Ou <albert@sifive.com>,
	Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>,
	Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@gmail.com>,
	Nicholas Piggin <npiggin@gmail.com>,
	David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
	Jade Alglave <j.alglave@ucl.ac.uk>,
	Luc Maranget <luc.maranget@inria.fr>,
	Akira Yokosawa <akiyks@gmail.com>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH] riscv/locking: Strengthen spin_lock() and spin_unlock()
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 10:39:16 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20180226103915.GA8736@arm.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <563431d0-4fb5-9efd-c393-83cc5197e934@nvidia.com>

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 11:47:57AM -0800, Daniel Lustig wrote:
> On 2/22/2018 10:27 AM, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> > On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 10:13:17AM -0800, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> >> So we have something that is not all that rare in the Linux kernel
> >> community, namely two conflicting more-or-less concurrent changes.
> >> This clearly needs to be resolved, either by us not strengthening the
> >> Linux-kernel memory model in the way we were planning to or by you
> >> strengthening RISC-V to be no weaker than PowerPC for these sorts of
> >> externally viewed release-acquire situations.
> >>
> >> Other thoughts?
> > 
> > Like said in the other email, I would _much_ prefer to not go weaker
> > than PPC, I find that PPC is already painfully weak at times.
> 
> Sure, and RISC-V could make this work too by using RCsc instructions
> and/or by using lightweight fences instead.  It just wasn't clear at
> first whether smp_load_acquire() and smp_store_release() were RCpc,
> RCsc, or something else, and hence whether RISC-V would actually need
> to use something stronger than pure RCpc there.  Likewise for
> spin_unlock()/spin_lock() and everywhere else this comes up.
> 
> As Paul's email in the other thread observed, RCpc seems to be
> OK for smp_load_acquire()/smp_store_release() at least according
> to the current LKMM herd spec.  Unlock/lock are stronger already
> I guess.  But if there's an active proposal to strengthen them all
> to something stricter than pure RCpc, then that's good to know.
> 
> My understanding from earlier discussions is that ARM has no plans
> to use their own RCpc instruction for smp_load_acquire() instead
> of their RCsc instructions.  Is that still true?  If they were to
> use the RCpc load there, that would cause them to have the same
> problem we're discussing here, right?  Just checking.

Agreed. No plans to use the LDAPR instruction in Linux.

Will

  parent reply	other threads:[~2018-02-26 10:39 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 46+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-02-22 12:19 [RFC PATCH] riscv/locking: Strengthen spin_lock() and spin_unlock() Andrea Parri
2018-02-22 12:19 ` Andrea Parri
2018-02-22 12:44 ` Andrea Parri
2018-02-22 12:44   ` Andrea Parri
2018-02-22 13:40 ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-02-22 13:40   ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-02-22 14:12   ` Andrea Parri
2018-02-22 14:12     ` Andrea Parri
2018-02-22 17:27     ` Daniel Lustig
2018-02-22 17:27       ` Daniel Lustig
2018-02-22 18:13       ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-02-22 18:13         ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-02-22 18:27         ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-02-22 18:27           ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-02-22 19:47           ` Daniel Lustig
2018-02-22 19:47             ` Daniel Lustig
2018-02-23 11:16             ` Andrea Parri
2018-02-23 11:16               ` Andrea Parri
2018-02-26 10:39             ` Will Deacon [this message]
2018-02-26 10:39               ` Will Deacon
2018-02-26 14:21             ` Luc Maranget
2018-02-26 14:21               ` Luc Maranget
2018-02-26 16:06               ` Linus Torvalds
2018-02-26 16:06                 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-02-26 16:24                 ` Will Deacon
2018-02-26 16:24                   ` Will Deacon
2018-02-26 17:00                   ` Linus Torvalds
2018-02-26 17:00                     ` Linus Torvalds
2018-02-26 17:10                     ` Will Deacon
2018-02-26 17:10                       ` Will Deacon
2018-03-06 13:00                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-03-06 13:00                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-02-27  5:06                   ` Boqun Feng
2018-02-27  5:06                     ` Boqun Feng
2018-02-27 10:16                     ` Boqun Feng
2018-02-27 10:16                       ` Boqun Feng
2018-03-01 15:11             ` Andrea Parri
2018-03-01 15:11               ` Andrea Parri
2018-03-01 21:54               ` Palmer Dabbelt
2018-03-01 21:54                 ` Palmer Dabbelt
2018-03-01 22:21                 ` Daniel Lustig
2018-03-01 22:21                   ` Daniel Lustig
2018-02-22 20:02           ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-02-22 20:02             ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-02-22 18:21       ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-02-22 18:21         ` Peter Zijlstra

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