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From: Johannes Thumshirn <jthumshirn@suse.de>
To: Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>
Cc: Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>,
	linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org, mhocko@suse.cz, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Problems with VM_MIXEDMAP removal from /proc/<pid>/smaps
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2018 17:01:24 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20181002150123.GD4963@linux-x5ow.site> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20181002144547.GA26735@infradead.org>

On Tue, Oct 02, 2018 at 07:45:47AM -0700, Christoph Hellwig wrote:
> How does an application "make use of DAX"?  What actual user visible
> semantics are associated with a file that has this flag set?

There may not be any user visible semantics of DAX, but there are
promises we gave to application developers praising DAX as _the_
method to map data on persistent memory and get around "the penalty of
the page cache" (however big this is).

As I said in another mail to this thread, applications have started to
poke in procfs to see whether they can use DAX or not.

Party A has promised party B something and they started checking for
it, then commit e1fb4a086495 "dax: remove VM_MIXEDMAP for fsdax and
device dax" removed the way they checked if the kernel can keep up
with this promise.

So technically e1fb4a086495 is a user visible regression and in the
past we have reverted patches introducing these, even if the patch is
generally correct and poking in /proc/self/smaps is a bad idea.

I just wanted to give them a documented way to check for this
promise. Being neutral if this promise is right or wrong, good or bad,
or whatever. That's not my call, but I prefer not having angry users,
yelling at me because of broken applications.

Byte,
	Johannes
-- 
Johannes Thumshirn                                          Storage
jthumshirn@suse.de                                +49 911 74053 689
SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg
GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton
HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg)
Key fingerprint = EC38 9CAB C2C4 F25D 8600 D0D0 0393 969D 2D76 0850
_______________________________________________
Linux-nvdimm mailing list
Linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org
https://lists.01.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-nvdimm

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Johannes Thumshirn <jthumshirn@suse.de>
To: Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>
Cc: Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org, mhocko@suse.cz,
	Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>
Subject: Re: Problems with VM_MIXEDMAP removal from /proc/<pid>/smaps
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2018 17:01:24 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20181002150123.GD4963@linux-x5ow.site> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20181002144547.GA26735@infradead.org>

On Tue, Oct 02, 2018 at 07:45:47AM -0700, Christoph Hellwig wrote:
> How does an application "make use of DAX"?  What actual user visible
> semantics are associated with a file that has this flag set?

There may not be any user visible semantics of DAX, but there are
promises we gave to application developers praising DAX as _the_
method to map data on persistent memory and get around "the penalty of
the page cache" (however big this is).

As I said in another mail to this thread, applications have started to
poke in procfs to see whether they can use DAX or not.

Party A has promised party B something and they started checking for
it, then commit e1fb4a086495 "dax: remove VM_MIXEDMAP for fsdax and
device dax" removed the way they checked if the kernel can keep up
with this promise.

So technically e1fb4a086495 is a user visible regression and in the
past we have reverted patches introducing these, even if the patch is
generally correct and poking in /proc/self/smaps is a bad idea.

I just wanted to give them a documented way to check for this
promise. Being neutral if this promise is right or wrong, good or bad,
or whatever. That's not my call, but I prefer not having angry users,
yelling at me because of broken applications.

Byte,
	Johannes
-- 
Johannes Thumshirn                                          Storage
jthumshirn@suse.de                                +49 911 74053 689
SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 N�rnberg
GF: Felix Imend�rffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton
HRB 21284 (AG N�rnberg)
Key fingerprint = EC38 9CAB C2C4 F25D 8600 D0D0 0393 969D 2D76 0850

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Johannes Thumshirn <jthumshirn@suse.de>
To: Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>
Cc: Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org, mhocko@suse.cz,
	Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>
Subject: Re: Problems with VM_MIXEDMAP removal from /proc/<pid>/smaps
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2018 17:01:24 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20181002150123.GD4963@linux-x5ow.site> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20181002144547.GA26735@infradead.org>

On Tue, Oct 02, 2018 at 07:45:47AM -0700, Christoph Hellwig wrote:
> How does an application "make use of DAX"?  What actual user visible
> semantics are associated with a file that has this flag set?

There may not be any user visible semantics of DAX, but there are
promises we gave to application developers praising DAX as _the_
method to map data on persistent memory and get around "the penalty of
the page cache" (however big this is).

As I said in another mail to this thread, applications have started to
poke in procfs to see whether they can use DAX or not.

Party A has promised party B something and they started checking for
it, then commit e1fb4a086495 "dax: remove VM_MIXEDMAP for fsdax and
device dax" removed the way they checked if the kernel can keep up
with this promise.

So technically e1fb4a086495 is a user visible regression and in the
past we have reverted patches introducing these, even if the patch is
generally correct and poking in /proc/self/smaps is a bad idea.

I just wanted to give them a documented way to check for this
promise. Being neutral if this promise is right or wrong, good or bad,
or whatever. That's not my call, but I prefer not having angry users,
yelling at me because of broken applications.

Byte,
	Johannes
-- 
Johannes Thumshirn                                          Storage
jthumshirn@suse.de                                +49 911 74053 689
SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nurnberg
GF: Felix Imendorffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton
HRB 21284 (AG Nurnberg)
Key fingerprint = EC38 9CAB C2C4 F25D 8600 D0D0 0393 969D 2D76 0850

  reply	other threads:[~2018-10-02 15:01 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 120+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-10-02 10:05 Problems with VM_MIXEDMAP removal from /proc/<pid>/smaps Jan Kara
2018-10-02 10:05 ` Jan Kara
2018-10-02 10:05 ` Jan Kara
2018-10-02 10:50 ` Michal Hocko
2018-10-02 10:50   ` Michal Hocko
2018-10-02 13:32   ` Jan Kara
2018-10-02 13:32     ` Jan Kara
2018-10-02 12:10 ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-02 12:10   ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-02 12:10   ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-02 14:20   ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-02 14:20     ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-02 14:20     ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-02 14:45     ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-10-02 14:45       ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-10-02 15:01       ` Johannes Thumshirn [this message]
2018-10-02 15:01         ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-02 15:01         ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-02 15:06         ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-10-02 15:06           ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-10-04 10:09           ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-04 10:09             ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-04 10:09             ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-05  6:25             ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-10-05  6:25               ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-10-05  6:35               ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-05  6:35                 ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-05  6:35                 ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-06  1:17                 ` Dan Williams
2018-10-06  1:17                   ` Dan Williams
2018-10-14 15:47                   ` Dan Williams
2018-10-14 15:47                     ` Dan Williams
2018-10-17 20:01                     ` Dan Williams
2018-10-18 17:43                       ` Jan Kara
2018-10-18 17:43                         ` Jan Kara
2018-10-18 19:10                         ` Dan Williams
2018-10-18 19:10                           ` Dan Williams
2018-10-19  3:01                           ` Dave Chinner
2018-10-19  3:01                             ` Dave Chinner
     [not found]   ` <20181002121039.GA3274-qw2SdCWA0PpjqqEj2zc+bA@public.gmane.org>
2018-10-02 14:29     ` Jan Kara
2018-10-02 14:29       ` Jan Kara
2018-10-02 14:29       ` Jan Kara
     [not found]       ` <20181002142959.GD9127-4I4JzKEfoa/jFM9bn6wA6Q@public.gmane.org>
2018-10-02 14:37         ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-10-02 14:37           ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-10-02 14:37           ` Christoph Hellwig
     [not found]           ` <20181002143713.GA19845-wEGCiKHe2LqWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org>
2018-10-02 14:44             ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-02 14:44               ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-02 14:44               ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-02 14:44               ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-02 14:44               ` Johannes Thumshirn
     [not found]               ` <20181002144412.GC4963-qw2SdCWA0PpjqqEj2zc+bA@public.gmane.org>
2018-10-02 14:52                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-10-02 14:52                   ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-10-02 14:52                   ` Christoph Hellwig
     [not found]                   ` <20181002145206.GA10903-wEGCiKHe2LqWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org>
2018-10-02 15:31                     ` Jan Kara
2018-10-02 15:31                       ` Jan Kara
2018-10-02 15:31                       ` Jan Kara
     [not found]                       ` <20181002153100.GG9127-4I4JzKEfoa/jFM9bn6wA6Q@public.gmane.org>
2018-10-02 20:18                         ` Dan Williams
2018-10-02 20:18                           ` Dan Williams
     [not found]                           ` <CAPcyv4j0tTD+rENqFExA68aw=-MmtCBaOe1qJovyrmJC=yBg-Q-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2018-10-03 12:50                             ` Jan Kara
2018-10-03 12:50                               ` Jan Kara
2018-10-03 12:50                               ` Jan Kara
     [not found]                               ` <20181003125056.GA21043-4I4JzKEfoa/jFM9bn6wA6Q@public.gmane.org>
2018-10-03 14:38                                 ` Dan Williams
2018-10-03 14:38                                   ` Dan Williams
     [not found]                                   ` <CAPcyv4jfV10yuTiPg6ijsPRRL2-c_48ovfpU5TK1Zu7BWnfk3g-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2018-10-03 15:06                                     ` Jan Kara
2018-10-03 15:06                                       ` Jan Kara
2018-10-03 15:06                                       ` Jan Kara
     [not found]                                       ` <20181003150658.GC24030-4I4JzKEfoa/jFM9bn6wA6Q@public.gmane.org>
2018-10-03 15:13                                         ` Dan Williams
2018-10-03 15:13                                           ` Dan Williams
2018-10-03 15:13                                           ` Dan Williams
     [not found]                                           ` <CAPcyv4iJvN6_Cf6tw=5a=Uh99LfMFKU7n8QkGcz1ZaxL0Oi-3w-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2018-10-03 16:44                                             ` Jan Kara
2018-10-03 16:44                                               ` Jan Kara
2018-10-03 16:44                                               ` Jan Kara
     [not found]                                               ` <20181003164407.GK24030-4I4JzKEfoa/jFM9bn6wA6Q@public.gmane.org>
2018-10-03 21:13                                                 ` Dan Williams
2018-10-03 21:13                                                   ` Dan Williams
2018-10-03 21:13                                                   ` Dan Williams
2018-10-04 10:04                                                 ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-04 10:04                                                   ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-04 10:04                                                   ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-04 10:04                                                   ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-04 10:04                                                   ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-02 15:07             ` Jan Kara
2018-10-02 15:07               ` Jan Kara
2018-10-02 15:07               ` Jan Kara
2018-10-17 20:23         ` Jeff Moyer
2018-10-17 20:23           ` Jeff Moyer
2018-10-17 20:23           ` Jeff Moyer
     [not found]           ` <x49h8hkfhk9.fsf-RRHT56Q3PSP4kTEheFKJxxDDeQx5vsVwAInAS/Ez/D0@public.gmane.org>
2018-10-18  0:25             ` Dave Chinner
2018-10-18  0:25               ` Dave Chinner
2018-10-18  0:25               ` Dave Chinner
2018-10-18 14:55               ` Jan Kara
2018-10-18 14:55                 ` Jan Kara
     [not found]                 ` <20181018145555.GS23493-4I4JzKEfoa/jFM9bn6wA6Q@public.gmane.org>
2018-10-19  0:43                   ` Dave Chinner
2018-10-19  0:43                     ` Dave Chinner
2018-10-19  0:43                     ` Dave Chinner
2018-10-30  6:30                     ` Dan Williams
2018-10-30  6:30                       ` Dan Williams
2018-10-30  6:30                       ` Dan Williams
     [not found]                       ` <CAPcyv4ixoAh7HEMfm+B4sRDx1Qwm6SHGjtQ+5r3EKsxreRydrA-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2018-10-30 22:49                         ` Dave Chinner
2018-10-30 22:49                           ` Dave Chinner
2018-10-30 22:49                           ` Dave Chinner
2018-10-30 22:59                           ` Dan Williams
2018-10-30 22:59                             ` Dan Williams
2018-10-30 22:59                             ` Dan Williams
2018-10-31  5:59                           ` y-goto-LMvhtfratI1BDgjK7y7TUQ
2018-10-31  5:59                             ` y-goto
2018-10-31  5:59                             ` y-goto
     [not found]                             ` <TYAPR01MB32619CCA488DD0DA86EDB17E90CD0-0qPFe2CvyVSThio5wsivRXcolHNk5qUtvxpqHgZTriW3zl9H0oFU5g@public.gmane.org>
2018-11-01 23:00                               ` Dave Chinner
2018-11-01 23:00                                 ` Dave Chinner
2018-11-01 23:00                                 ` Dave Chinner
2018-11-02  1:43                                 ` y-goto-LMvhtfratI1BDgjK7y7TUQ
2018-11-02  1:43                                   ` y-goto
2018-11-02  1:43                                   ` y-goto
2018-10-18 21:05               ` Jeff Moyer
2018-10-18 21:05                 ` Jeff Moyer
2018-10-18 21:05                 ` Jeff Moyer
2018-10-09 19:43 ` Jeff Moyer
2018-10-09 19:43   ` Jeff Moyer
2018-10-16  8:25   ` Jan Kara
2018-10-16  8:25     ` Jan Kara
2018-10-16 12:35     ` Jeff Moyer

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