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From: Jan Kara <jack-AlSwsSmVLrQ@public.gmane.org>
To: Dan Williams <dan.j.williams-ral2JQCrhuEAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
Cc: linux-xfs <linux-xfs-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>,
	linux-nvdimm
	<linux-nvdimm-hn68Rpc1hR1g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>,
	Linux API <linux-api-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch-wEGCiKHe2LqWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org>,
	Linux MM <linux-mm-Bw31MaZKKs3YtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>,
	linux-fsdevel
	<linux-fsdevel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>,
	Jan Kara <jack-AlSwsSmVLrQ@public.gmane.org>,
	linux-ext4 <linux-ext4-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: Problems with VM_MIXEDMAP removal from /proc/<pid>/smaps
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2018 18:44:07 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20181003164407.GK24030@quack2.suse.cz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAPcyv4iJvN6_Cf6tw=5a=Uh99LfMFKU7n8QkGcz1ZaxL0Oi-3w-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>

On Wed 03-10-18 08:13:37, Dan Williams wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 8:07 AM Jan Kara <jack-AlSwsSmVLrQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > WRT per-inode DAX property, AFAIU that inode flag is just going to be
> > advisory thing - i.e., use DAX if possible. If you mount a filesystem with
> > these inode flags set in a configuration which does not allow DAX to be
> > used, you will still be able to access such inodes but the access will use
> > page cache instead. And querying these flags should better show real
> > on-disk status and not just whether DAX is used as that would result in an
> > even bigger mess. So this feature seems to be somewhat orthogonal to the
> > API I'm looking for.
> 
> True, I imagine once we have that flag we will be able to distinguish
> the "saved" property and the "effective / live" property of DAX...
> Also it's really not DAX that applications care about as much as "is
> there page-cache indirection / overhead for this mapping?". That seems
> to be a narrower guarantee that we can make than what "DAX" might
> imply.

Right. So what do people think about my suggestion earlier in the thread to
use madvise(MADV_DIRECT_ACCESS) for this? Currently it would return success
when DAX is in use, failure otherwise. Later we could extend it to be also
used as a hint for caching policy for the inode...

								Honza
-- 
Jan Kara <jack-IBi9RG/b67k@public.gmane.org>
SUSE Labs, CR

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>
To: Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>
Cc: Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>, Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
	Johannes Thumshirn <jthumshirn@suse.de>,
	Dave Jiang <dave.jiang@intel.com>,
	linux-nvdimm <linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org>,
	Linux MM <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
	linux-fsdevel <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-ext4 <linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-xfs <linux-xfs@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux API <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: Problems with VM_MIXEDMAP removal from /proc/<pid>/smaps
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2018 18:44:07 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20181003164407.GK24030@quack2.suse.cz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAPcyv4iJvN6_Cf6tw=5a=Uh99LfMFKU7n8QkGcz1ZaxL0Oi-3w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed 03-10-18 08:13:37, Dan Williams wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 8:07 AM Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz> wrote:
> > WRT per-inode DAX property, AFAIU that inode flag is just going to be
> > advisory thing - i.e., use DAX if possible. If you mount a filesystem with
> > these inode flags set in a configuration which does not allow DAX to be
> > used, you will still be able to access such inodes but the access will use
> > page cache instead. And querying these flags should better show real
> > on-disk status and not just whether DAX is used as that would result in an
> > even bigger mess. So this feature seems to be somewhat orthogonal to the
> > API I'm looking for.
> 
> True, I imagine once we have that flag we will be able to distinguish
> the "saved" property and the "effective / live" property of DAX...
> Also it's really not DAX that applications care about as much as "is
> there page-cache indirection / overhead for this mapping?". That seems
> to be a narrower guarantee that we can make than what "DAX" might
> imply.

Right. So what do people think about my suggestion earlier in the thread to
use madvise(MADV_DIRECT_ACCESS) for this? Currently it would return success
when DAX is in use, failure otherwise. Later we could extend it to be also
used as a hint for caching policy for the inode...

								Honza
-- 
Jan Kara <jack@suse.com>
SUSE Labs, CR

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>
To: Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>
Cc: linux-xfs <linux-xfs@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-nvdimm <linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org>,
	Linux API <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
	Linux MM <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
	linux-fsdevel <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>, linux-ext4 <linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: Problems with VM_MIXEDMAP removal from /proc/<pid>/smaps
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2018 18:44:07 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20181003164407.GK24030@quack2.suse.cz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAPcyv4iJvN6_Cf6tw=5a=Uh99LfMFKU7n8QkGcz1ZaxL0Oi-3w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed 03-10-18 08:13:37, Dan Williams wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 8:07 AM Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz> wrote:
> > WRT per-inode DAX property, AFAIU that inode flag is just going to be
> > advisory thing - i.e., use DAX if possible. If you mount a filesystem with
> > these inode flags set in a configuration which does not allow DAX to be
> > used, you will still be able to access such inodes but the access will use
> > page cache instead. And querying these flags should better show real
> > on-disk status and not just whether DAX is used as that would result in an
> > even bigger mess. So this feature seems to be somewhat orthogonal to the
> > API I'm looking for.
> 
> True, I imagine once we have that flag we will be able to distinguish
> the "saved" property and the "effective / live" property of DAX...
> Also it's really not DAX that applications care about as much as "is
> there page-cache indirection / overhead for this mapping?". That seems
> to be a narrower guarantee that we can make than what "DAX" might
> imply.

Right. So what do people think about my suggestion earlier in the thread to
use madvise(MADV_DIRECT_ACCESS) for this? Currently it would return success
when DAX is in use, failure otherwise. Later we could extend it to be also
used as a hint for caching policy for the inode...

								Honza
-- 
Jan Kara <jack@suse.com>
SUSE Labs, CR
_______________________________________________
Linux-nvdimm mailing list
Linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org
https://lists.01.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-nvdimm

  parent reply	other threads:[~2018-10-03 16:44 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 120+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-10-02 10:05 Problems with VM_MIXEDMAP removal from /proc/<pid>/smaps Jan Kara
2018-10-02 10:05 ` Jan Kara
2018-10-02 10:05 ` Jan Kara
2018-10-02 10:50 ` Michal Hocko
2018-10-02 10:50   ` Michal Hocko
2018-10-02 13:32   ` Jan Kara
2018-10-02 13:32     ` Jan Kara
2018-10-02 12:10 ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-02 12:10   ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-02 12:10   ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-02 14:20   ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-02 14:20     ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-02 14:20     ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-02 14:45     ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-10-02 14:45       ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-10-02 15:01       ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-02 15:01         ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-02 15:01         ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-02 15:06         ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-10-02 15:06           ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-10-04 10:09           ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-04 10:09             ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-04 10:09             ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-05  6:25             ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-10-05  6:25               ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-10-05  6:35               ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-05  6:35                 ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-05  6:35                 ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-06  1:17                 ` Dan Williams
2018-10-06  1:17                   ` Dan Williams
2018-10-14 15:47                   ` Dan Williams
2018-10-14 15:47                     ` Dan Williams
2018-10-17 20:01                     ` Dan Williams
2018-10-18 17:43                       ` Jan Kara
2018-10-18 17:43                         ` Jan Kara
2018-10-18 19:10                         ` Dan Williams
2018-10-18 19:10                           ` Dan Williams
2018-10-19  3:01                           ` Dave Chinner
2018-10-19  3:01                             ` Dave Chinner
     [not found]   ` <20181002121039.GA3274-qw2SdCWA0PpjqqEj2zc+bA@public.gmane.org>
2018-10-02 14:29     ` Jan Kara
2018-10-02 14:29       ` Jan Kara
2018-10-02 14:29       ` Jan Kara
     [not found]       ` <20181002142959.GD9127-4I4JzKEfoa/jFM9bn6wA6Q@public.gmane.org>
2018-10-02 14:37         ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-10-02 14:37           ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-10-02 14:37           ` Christoph Hellwig
     [not found]           ` <20181002143713.GA19845-wEGCiKHe2LqWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org>
2018-10-02 14:44             ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-02 14:44               ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-02 14:44               ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-02 14:44               ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-02 14:44               ` Johannes Thumshirn
     [not found]               ` <20181002144412.GC4963-qw2SdCWA0PpjqqEj2zc+bA@public.gmane.org>
2018-10-02 14:52                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-10-02 14:52                   ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-10-02 14:52                   ` Christoph Hellwig
     [not found]                   ` <20181002145206.GA10903-wEGCiKHe2LqWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org>
2018-10-02 15:31                     ` Jan Kara
2018-10-02 15:31                       ` Jan Kara
2018-10-02 15:31                       ` Jan Kara
     [not found]                       ` <20181002153100.GG9127-4I4JzKEfoa/jFM9bn6wA6Q@public.gmane.org>
2018-10-02 20:18                         ` Dan Williams
2018-10-02 20:18                           ` Dan Williams
     [not found]                           ` <CAPcyv4j0tTD+rENqFExA68aw=-MmtCBaOe1qJovyrmJC=yBg-Q-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2018-10-03 12:50                             ` Jan Kara
2018-10-03 12:50                               ` Jan Kara
2018-10-03 12:50                               ` Jan Kara
     [not found]                               ` <20181003125056.GA21043-4I4JzKEfoa/jFM9bn6wA6Q@public.gmane.org>
2018-10-03 14:38                                 ` Dan Williams
2018-10-03 14:38                                   ` Dan Williams
     [not found]                                   ` <CAPcyv4jfV10yuTiPg6ijsPRRL2-c_48ovfpU5TK1Zu7BWnfk3g-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2018-10-03 15:06                                     ` Jan Kara
2018-10-03 15:06                                       ` Jan Kara
2018-10-03 15:06                                       ` Jan Kara
     [not found]                                       ` <20181003150658.GC24030-4I4JzKEfoa/jFM9bn6wA6Q@public.gmane.org>
2018-10-03 15:13                                         ` Dan Williams
2018-10-03 15:13                                           ` Dan Williams
2018-10-03 15:13                                           ` Dan Williams
     [not found]                                           ` <CAPcyv4iJvN6_Cf6tw=5a=Uh99LfMFKU7n8QkGcz1ZaxL0Oi-3w-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2018-10-03 16:44                                             ` Jan Kara [this message]
2018-10-03 16:44                                               ` Jan Kara
2018-10-03 16:44                                               ` Jan Kara
     [not found]                                               ` <20181003164407.GK24030-4I4JzKEfoa/jFM9bn6wA6Q@public.gmane.org>
2018-10-03 21:13                                                 ` Dan Williams
2018-10-03 21:13                                                   ` Dan Williams
2018-10-03 21:13                                                   ` Dan Williams
2018-10-04 10:04                                                 ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-04 10:04                                                   ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-04 10:04                                                   ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-04 10:04                                                   ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-04 10:04                                                   ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-02 15:07             ` Jan Kara
2018-10-02 15:07               ` Jan Kara
2018-10-02 15:07               ` Jan Kara
2018-10-17 20:23         ` Jeff Moyer
2018-10-17 20:23           ` Jeff Moyer
2018-10-17 20:23           ` Jeff Moyer
     [not found]           ` <x49h8hkfhk9.fsf-RRHT56Q3PSP4kTEheFKJxxDDeQx5vsVwAInAS/Ez/D0@public.gmane.org>
2018-10-18  0:25             ` Dave Chinner
2018-10-18  0:25               ` Dave Chinner
2018-10-18  0:25               ` Dave Chinner
2018-10-18 14:55               ` Jan Kara
2018-10-18 14:55                 ` Jan Kara
     [not found]                 ` <20181018145555.GS23493-4I4JzKEfoa/jFM9bn6wA6Q@public.gmane.org>
2018-10-19  0:43                   ` Dave Chinner
2018-10-19  0:43                     ` Dave Chinner
2018-10-19  0:43                     ` Dave Chinner
2018-10-30  6:30                     ` Dan Williams
2018-10-30  6:30                       ` Dan Williams
2018-10-30  6:30                       ` Dan Williams
     [not found]                       ` <CAPcyv4ixoAh7HEMfm+B4sRDx1Qwm6SHGjtQ+5r3EKsxreRydrA-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2018-10-30 22:49                         ` Dave Chinner
2018-10-30 22:49                           ` Dave Chinner
2018-10-30 22:49                           ` Dave Chinner
2018-10-30 22:59                           ` Dan Williams
2018-10-30 22:59                             ` Dan Williams
2018-10-30 22:59                             ` Dan Williams
2018-10-31  5:59                           ` y-goto-LMvhtfratI1BDgjK7y7TUQ
2018-10-31  5:59                             ` y-goto
2018-10-31  5:59                             ` y-goto
     [not found]                             ` <TYAPR01MB32619CCA488DD0DA86EDB17E90CD0-0qPFe2CvyVSThio5wsivRXcolHNk5qUtvxpqHgZTriW3zl9H0oFU5g@public.gmane.org>
2018-11-01 23:00                               ` Dave Chinner
2018-11-01 23:00                                 ` Dave Chinner
2018-11-01 23:00                                 ` Dave Chinner
2018-11-02  1:43                                 ` y-goto-LMvhtfratI1BDgjK7y7TUQ
2018-11-02  1:43                                   ` y-goto
2018-11-02  1:43                                   ` y-goto
2018-10-18 21:05               ` Jeff Moyer
2018-10-18 21:05                 ` Jeff Moyer
2018-10-18 21:05                 ` Jeff Moyer
2018-10-09 19:43 ` Jeff Moyer
2018-10-09 19:43   ` Jeff Moyer
2018-10-16  8:25   ` Jan Kara
2018-10-16  8:25     ` Jan Kara
2018-10-16 12:35     ` Jeff Moyer

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