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From: Takahiro Itazuri <itazur@amazon.com>
To: Yosry Ahmed <yosry@kernel.org>,
	Sean Christopherson <seanjc@google.com>,
	Brendan Jackman <brendan.jackman@linux.dev>
Cc: Brendan Jackman <jackmanb@google.com>,
	Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@linux.intel.com>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	"David Hildenbrand" <david@kernel.org>,
	Vlastimil Babka <vbabka@kernel.org>,
	"Mike Rapoport" <rppt@kernel.org>, Wei Xu <weixugc@google.com>,
	Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>, Zi Yan <ziy@nvidia.com>,
	Lorenzo Stoakes <ljs@kernel.org>, <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
	<linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, <x86@kernel.org>,
	Sumit Garg <sumit.garg@oss.qualcomm.com>,
	Will Deacon <will@kernel.org>, <rientjes@google.com>,
	Roy Patrick <patrick.roy@linux.dev>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>,
	David Kaplan <david.kaplan@amd.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@kernel.org>,
	Patrick Bellasi <derkling@google.com>,
	Reiji Watanabe <reijiw@google.com>,
	Nikita Kalyazin <nikita.kalyazin@linux.dev>,
	Ackerley Tng <ackerleytng@google.com>,
	"Takahiro Itazuri" <zulinx86@gmail.com>,
	<cc-open-source@amazon.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 03/26] mm: introduce AS_NO_DIRECT_MAP
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2026 08:26:26 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20260903072625.62694-2-itazur@amazon.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAO9r8zNJ3mSRf5YyRQYYW-eM2eiFvQMXW4Rh0cT=31jsKZpuSQ@mail.gmail.com>

Some of you on the KVM side already know this, but for those on the MM
side who may not, I am taking over the guest_memfd direct-map removal
series.  I have finally caught up with this thread, and I sincerely
apologize for joining so late; other commitments kept me from catching
up sooner.

On Fri, 7 Aug 2026 15:48:24 -0700, Yosry Ahmed <yosry@kernel.org> wrote:
> > I'm not ok punting on that, i.e. whatever we come up with needs to land alongside
> > AS_NO_DIRECT_MAP, or at least before guest_memfd tries to use AS_NO_DIRECT_MAP.
>
> Yup, I meant the latter.
>
> > The only way KVM can use AS_NO_DIRECT_MAP without GUP is with a massive list of
> > caveats and addendums on things the VMM and guest can't do.  I'm not ok merging
> > guest_memfd support for AS_NO_DIRECT_MAP with such a list.
>
> This series is not adding the support in guest_memfd, just adding the
> generic AS_NO_DIRECT_MAP and using it for secretmem. Followup work is
> needed to plumb it for guest_memfd anyway, and I am proposing that we
> also punt the GUP story to that (when we have an actual user).

My reading of the discussion is that the generic AS_NO_DIRECT_MAP support
can land with GUP rejecting such mappings, provided that a generic GUP-like
access mechanism is in place before guest_memfd starts using
AS_NO_DIRECT_MAP.

As far as I know, Brendan is no longer at Google.  I do not know whether
he plans to continue the ALLOC_UNMAPPED / mermap work, or whether someone
else at Google has taken it over.  If that work is not already underway,
I would like to respin the AS_NO_DIRECT_MAP introduction and secretmem
adoption as a standalone MM series, separate from ALLOC_UNMAPPED and
mermap.  The AS_NO_DIRECT_MAP changes originated in the guest_memfd
direct-map removal series, and splitting the MM and KVM parts was already
requested during review.

The proposed MM series would include:

  - the folio direct-map helpers;
  - the AS_NO_DIRECT_MAP flag and filemap lifecycle;
  - the current GUP and build-ID rejections, while keeping the mlock
    check specific to secretmem; and
  - the secretmem conversion.

I would leave ALLOC_UNMAPPED, freetypes, mermap, the allocator fast path,
and the KVM / guest_memfd integration out of that series.  This would not
change the requirement discussed by Sean and Yosry above: the GUP-like
access problem would still need to be resolved before enabling
AS_NO_DIRECT_MAP for guest_memfd.

Please let me know if this work is already being continued; if not, does
the standalone MM series described above sound reasonable?

Thanks,
Takahiro


  reply	other threads:[~2026-09-03  7:27 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 124+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2026-07-26 22:22 [PATCH v3 00/26] mm: Add ALLOC_UNMAPPED and AS_NO_DIRECT_MAP Brendan Jackman
2026-07-26 22:22 ` [PATCH v3 01/26] set_memory: add folio_{zap,restore}_direct_map helpers Brendan Jackman
2026-07-27 10:33   ` Mike Rapoport
2026-07-29 11:42     ` Brendan Jackman
2026-07-30 20:34   ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-07-31  5:21     ` Mike Rapoport
2026-07-31 11:57       ` Brendan Jackman
2026-07-26 22:22 ` [PATCH v3 02/26] mm/secretmem: make use of folio_{zap,restore}_direct_map Brendan Jackman
2026-07-27 10:40   ` Mike Rapoport
2026-07-26 22:22 ` [PATCH v3 03/26] mm: introduce AS_NO_DIRECT_MAP Brendan Jackman
2026-07-30 21:06   ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-07-31 12:15     ` Brendan Jackman
2026-07-31 19:28       ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-08-07  0:02         ` Sean Christopherson
2026-08-07  0:13           ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-08-07  0:19             ` Sean Christopherson
2026-08-07  0:29               ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-08-07 14:26                 ` Sean Christopherson
2026-08-07 18:12                   ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-08-07 18:49                     ` Sean Christopherson
2026-08-07 19:39                       ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-08-07 22:44                         ` Sean Christopherson
2026-08-07 22:48                           ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-09-03  7:26                             ` Takahiro Itazuri [this message]
2026-09-03 14:06                               ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-09-03 14:25                                 ` Takahiro Itazuri
2026-09-15 16:01                                 ` Gregory Price
2026-10-05 20:11                                   ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-10-13 15:25                                 ` Takahiro Itazuri
2026-10-13 15:36                                   ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-10-13 16:05                                     ` Takahiro Itazuri
2026-10-13 16:09                                       ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-08-08 13:56         ` Brendan Jackman
2026-08-10 21:39           ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-08-10 21:46             ` Sean Christopherson
2026-08-13 15:32         ` Brendan Jackman
2026-08-13 17:25           ` Ackerley Tng
2026-08-18  0:32           ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-08-18 10:41             ` Brendan Jackman
2026-08-02 16:10   ` Mike Rapoport
2026-08-08  0:19   ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-07-26 22:22 ` [PATCH v3 04/26] x86/mm: split out preallocate_sub_pgd() Brendan Jackman
2026-07-31 22:10   ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-08-13 15:42     ` Brendan Jackman
2026-08-18  0:30       ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-08-02 16:13   ` Mike Rapoport
2026-08-13 15:46     ` Brendan Jackman
2026-07-26 22:22 ` [PATCH v3 05/26] x86: move PAE PMD preallocation defines to header Brendan Jackman
2026-07-31 23:59   ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-08-13 15:49     ` Brendan Jackman
2026-07-26 22:22 ` [PATCH v3 06/26] x86/tlb: Expose some flush function declarations to modules Brendan Jackman
2026-07-26 22:22 ` [PATCH v3 07/26] x86/mm: introduce mm-local region Brendan Jackman
2026-08-02 16:27   ` Mike Rapoport
2026-08-13 16:10     ` Brendan Jackman
2026-08-03 22:29   ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-08-13 16:23     ` Brendan Jackman
2026-07-26 22:22 ` [PATCH v3 08/26] x86/mm: move LDT remap into " Brendan Jackman
2026-08-03 22:33   ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-07-26 22:22 ` [PATCH v3 09/26] mm: Create flags arg for __apply_to_page_range() Brendan Jackman
2026-07-26 22:22 ` [PATCH v3 10/26] mm: Add more flags " Brendan Jackman
2026-08-04  0:08   ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-08-13 16:40     ` Brendan Jackman
2026-07-26 22:22 ` [PATCH v3 11/26] x86/mm: introduce the mermap Brendan Jackman
2026-08-02 16:40   ` Mike Rapoport
2026-08-13 16:44     ` Brendan Jackman
2026-08-04 18:38   ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-07-26 22:22 ` [PATCH v3 12/26] mm: KUnit tests for " Brendan Jackman
2026-07-26 22:22 ` [PATCH v3 13/26] mm: introduce freetype_t Brendan Jackman
2026-08-04 22:23   ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-08-14 10:37     ` Brendan Jackman
2026-08-18  0:35       ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-09-03  8:00         ` Vlastimil Babka (SUSE)
2026-09-03 13:30           ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-08-04 23:02   ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-08-14 10:48     ` Brendan Jackman
2026-07-26 22:22 ` [PATCH v3 14/26] mm: move migratetype definitions to freetype.h Brendan Jackman
2026-07-26 22:22 ` [PATCH v3 15/26] mm/page_alloc: add support for freetypes with no freelist Brendan Jackman
2026-07-31 14:13   ` Vlastimil Babka (SUSE)
2026-07-26 22:22 ` [PATCH v3 16/26] mm: add definitions for allocating unmapped pages Brendan Jackman
2026-08-04 19:53   ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-08-14 11:22     ` Brendan Jackman
2026-07-26 22:22 ` [PATCH v3 17/26] mm: encode freetype flags in pageblock flags Brendan Jackman
2026-07-26 22:22 ` [PATCH v3 18/26] mm/page_alloc: separate pcplists by freetype flags Brendan Jackman
2026-07-26 22:22 ` [PATCH v3 19/26] mm/page_alloc: rename ALLOC_NON_BLOCK back to _HARDER Brendan Jackman
2026-07-31 14:52   ` Vlastimil Babka (SUSE)
2026-08-03  9:20     ` Vlastimil Babka (SUSE)
2026-08-04 21:50     ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-08-14 12:09       ` Brendan Jackman
2026-08-18  0:45         ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-08-18 10:58           ` Brendan Jackman
2026-07-26 22:22 ` [PATCH v3 20/26] mm/page_alloc: introduce ALLOC_NOBLOCK Brendan Jackman
2026-07-26 22:22 ` [PATCH v3 21/26] mm/page_alloc: implement FREETYPE_UNMAPPED allocations Brendan Jackman
2026-08-03  9:18   ` Vlastimil Babka (SUSE)
2026-08-15 14:12     ` Brendan Jackman
2026-08-04 23:41   ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-08-07  0:05     ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-08-14 12:31     ` Brendan Jackman
2026-08-04 23:53   ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-08-05 16:13     ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-08-15 14:28     ` Brendan Jackman
2026-08-18  0:55       ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-08-18 11:03         ` Brendan Jackman
2026-08-18 17:51           ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-08-25 20:01             ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-08-07  0:16   ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-08-15 14:30     ` Brendan Jackman
2026-08-18  0:50       ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-08-12 21:26   ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-08-15 14:43     ` Brendan Jackman
2026-08-18  0:49       ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-08-18  1:01   ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-07-26 22:22 ` [PATCH v3 22/26] mm: Minimal KUnit tests for some new page_alloc logic Brendan Jackman
2026-08-03  9:30   ` Vlastimil Babka (SUSE)
2026-07-26 22:22 ` [PATCH v3 23/26] mm: Split out NR_FREE_PAGES_BLOCKS_[UN]MAPPED Brendan Jackman
2026-08-03  9:32   ` Vlastimil Babka (SUSE)
2026-07-26 22:22 ` [PATCH v3 24/26] mm/page_alloc: always direct compact for unmapped allocs Brendan Jackman
2026-08-03  9:44   ` Vlastimil Babka (SUSE)
2026-08-15 14:44     ` Brendan Jackman
2026-08-06 23:29   ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-07-26 22:22 ` [PATCH v3 25/26] mm: plumb alloc flags into some alloc funcs Brendan Jackman
2026-08-03  9:52   ` Vlastimil Babka (SUSE)
2026-07-26 22:22 ` [PATCH v3 26/26] mm: add fast path for AS_NO_DIRECT_MAP Brendan Jackman
2026-08-08  0:06   ` Yosry Ahmed
2026-07-29 11:52 ` [PATCH v3 00/26] mm: Add ALLOC_UNMAPPED and AS_NO_DIRECT_MAP Brendan Jackman

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