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* Re: 2.2.17 Lockup and ATA-66/100 forced bit set (WARNING)
  2001-02-21 22:34 2.2.17 Lockup and ATA-66/100 forced bit set (WARNING) Michael B. Allen
@ 2001-02-21  1:33 ` Tim Moore
       [not found] ` <200102212348.f1LNm6X02792@adsl-209-76-109-63.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net>
  2001-02-21 23:36 ` Dan Hollis
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: Tim Moore @ 2001-02-21  1:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: linux-kernel

> I've enabled the higher performance features for my ATA drive by getting
> 2.2.17, applying Andre Hendrick's IDE patch, adding: 
>   append="idebus=66 ide0=ata66"
> to lilo.conf. I was told that Alan's patches from here:
> should be used. Is this true if I used Andre's patch? Is the warning
> message in my bootlog anything to worry about? The board is an ABIT KT7A
> w/ KT133A chipset.

Alan = kernel, Andre = IDE.  2.2.18 (kernel) + ide.2.2.18.1221 (IDE
patch) + 2.2.19pre8 (kernel patch).  See samples below.

> Also, the machine locked up once (hard, couldn't connect via network). I
> am using the Matrox G450 beta driver with XF 4.0.2 though. Maybe that
> was the cause?

Ensoniq AudioPCI (ES1370) was problematic if I tried to assign IRQ5 on
the KA7 (hard trailess lockups, all IRQ's migrated to 10 or 11
regardless of config, digital audio ScreamOfAgony), whereas IRQ 3 worked
fine.  Similar experiements with Intel chipset boards P3B-F & BP6 suffer
no such issues so I assume it's VT82C686/ES1370 specific.

Abit KA7, 2.2.19pre8 + ide.2.2.18.1221
--------------------------------------
Linux version 2.2.19pre8+IDE (root@abit) (gcc version egcs-2.91.66
19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)) #6 Tue Feb 20 
01:14:30 PST 2001
USER-provided physical RAM map:
 USER: 0009f000 @ 00000000 (usable)
 USER: 1ff00000 @ 00100000 (usable)
Detected 800063 kHz processor.
ide_setup: idebus=33
ide_setup: ide0=ata66
ide_setup: ide1=ata66
Console: colour VGA+ 80x25
Calibrating delay loop... 1595.80 BogoMIPS
Memory: 517204k/524288k available (1116k kernel code, 412k reserved,
5508k data, 48k init)
Dentry hash table entries: 65536 (order 7, 512k)
Buffer cache hash table entries: 524288 (order 9, 2048k)
Page cache hash table entries: 131072 (order 7, 512k)
CPU: L1 I Cache: 64K  L1 D Cache: 64K
CPU: L2 Cache: 512K
CPU: AMD Athlon(tm) Processor stepping 02
Checking 386/387 coupling... OK, FPU using exception 16 error reporting.
Checking 'hlt' instruction... OK.
POSIX conformance testing by UNIFIX
mtrr: v1.35a (19990819) Richard Gooch (rgooch@atnf.csiro.au)
PCI: PCI BIOS revision 2.10 entry at 0xfb4d0
PCI: Probing PCI hardware
...
Uniform Multi-Platform E-IDE driver Revision: 6.30
ide: Assuming 33MHz system bus speed for PIO modes
VP_IDE: IDE controller on PCI bus 00 dev 39
VP_IDE: chipset revision 16
VP_IDE: not 100% native mode: will probe irqs later
VT 8371
 Chipset Core ATA-66
VP_IDE: ATA-66/100 forced bit set (WARNING)!!
Split FIFO Configuration:  8 Primary buffers, threshold = 1/2
                           8 Second. buffers, threshold = 1/2
    ide0: BM-DMA at 0xd000-0xd007, BIOS settings: hda:DMA, hdb:DMA
ide0: VIA Bus-Master (U)DMA Timing Config Success
VP_IDE: ATA-66/100 forced bit set (WARNING)!!
    ide1: BM-DMA at 0xd008-0xd00f, BIOS settings: hdc:DMA, hdd:DMA
ide1: VIA Bus-Master (U)DMA Timing Config Success
hda: IBM-DTLA-307020, ATA DISK drive
hdb: YAMAHA CRW4416E, ATAPI CDROM drive
hdc: IBM-DTLA-307020, ATA DISK drive
hdd: HP COLORADO 20GB, ATAPI TAPE drive
ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14
ide1 at 0x170-0x177,0x376 on irq 15
hda: IBM-DTLA-307020, 19623MB w/1916kB Cache, CHS=2501/255/63, UDMA(66)
hdc: IBM-DTLA-307020, 19623MB w/1916kB Cache, CHS=39870/16/63, UDMA(66)
...
# lspci -v
00:00.0 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc.: Unknown device 0391 (rev
02)
        Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 0
        Memory at d0000000 (32-bit, prefetchable)
        Capabilities: [a0] AGP version 2.0

00:01.0 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc.: Unknown device 8391 (prog-if
00 [Normal decode])
        Flags: bus master, 66Mhz, medium devsel, latency 0
        Bus: primary=00, secondary=01, subordinate=01, sec-latency=0
        Memory behind bridge: d2000000-d3ffffff
        Prefetchable memory behind bridge: d4000000-d5ffffff
        Capabilities: [80] Power Management version 2

00:07.0 ISA bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C686 [Apollo Super] (rev
22)
        Subsystem: VIA Technologies, Inc.: Unknown device 0000
        Flags: bus master, stepping, medium devsel, latency 0

00:07.1 IDE interface: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C586 IDE [Apollo] (rev
10) (prog-if 8a [Master SecP PriP])
        Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 32
        I/O ports at d000
        Capabilities: [c0] Power Management version 2

00:07.4 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C686 [Apollo Super ACPI]
(rev 30)
        Flags: medium devsel
        Capabilities: [68] Power Management version 2


Generic Socket7, 2.2.19pre8 + ide.2.2.18.1221
---------------------------------------------
Linux version 2.2.19pre8+IDE (root@localhost.localdomain) (gcc version
egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)) #3 Mon Feb 19 21:07:58
PST 2001
BIOS-provided physical RAM map:
 BIOS-e820: 0009f000 @ 00000000 (usable)
 BIOS-e820: 03f00000 @ 00100000 (usable)
Detected 166405 kHz processor.
Console: colour VGA+ 80x25
Calibrating delay loop... 331.77 BogoMIPS
Memory: 63060k/65536k available (1044k kernel code, 412k reserved, 972k
data, 48k init)
Dentry hash table entries: 8192 (order 4, 64k)
Buffer cache hash table entries: 65536 (order 6, 256k)
Page cache hash table entries: 16384 (order 4, 64k)
CPU: Intel Pentium 75 - 200 stepping 0c
Checking 386/387 coupling... OK, FPU using exception 16 error reporting.
Checking 'hlt' instruction... OK.
Intel Pentium with F0 0F bug - workaround enabled.
POSIX conformance testing by UNIFIX
PCI: PCI BIOS revision 2.10 entry at 0xfb470
PCI: Using configuration type 1
PCI: Probing PCI hardware
PCI: 00:38 [1106/0586]: Work around ISA DMA hangs (00)
Activating ISA DMA hang workarounds.
...
Uniform Multi-Platform E-IDE driver Revision: 6.30
ide: Assuming 33MHz system bus speed for PIO modes; override with
idebus=xx
VP_IDE: IDE controller on PCI bus 00 dev 39
VP_IDE: chipset revision 2
VP_IDE: not 100% native mode: will probe irqs later
ide: Assuming 33MHz system bus speed for PIO modes; override with
idebus=xx
VT 82C585 Apollo VP1/VPX
 Chipset Core ATA-33
Split FIFO Configuration: 16 Primary buffers, threshold = 3/4
                           0 Second. buffers, threshold = 1/2
    ide0: BM-DMA at 0x6000-0x6007, BIOS settings: hda:DMA, hdb:DMA
ide0: VIA Bus-Master (U)DMA Timing Config Success
hda: IBM-DJNA-370910, ATA DISK drive
hdb: BCD-F520D CD-ROM, ATAPI CDROM drive
ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14
hda: IBM-DJNA-370910, 8693MB w/1966kB Cache, CHS=1108/255/63, (U)DMA
...
# lspci -v
00:00.0 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C585VP [Apollo VP1/VPX]
(rev 10)
        Flags: bus master, 66Mhz, medium devsel, latency 32

00:07.0 ISA bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C586/A/B PCI-to-ISA
[Apollo VP] (rev 02)
        Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 0

00:07.1 IDE interface: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C586 IDE [Apollo] (rev
02) (prog-if 8a [Master SecP PriP])
        Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 32
        I/O ports at 6000
        Memory at e1020000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable)


-- 
timothymoore
   bigfoot
     com

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread

* 2.2.17 Lockup and ATA-66/100 forced bit set (WARNING)
@ 2001-02-21 22:34 Michael B. Allen
  2001-02-21  1:33 ` Tim Moore
                   ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: Michael B. Allen @ 2001-02-21 22:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: linux-kernel

I've enabled the higher performance features for my ATA drive by getting
2.2.17, applying Andre Hendrick's IDE patch, adding:

  append="idebus=66 ide0=ata66"

to lilo.conf. I was told that Alan's patches from here:

  ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/alan

should be used. Is this true if I used Andre's patch? Is the warning
message in my bootlog anything to worry about? The board is an ABIT KT7A
w/ KT133A chipset.

Also, the machine locked up once (hard, couldn't connect via network). I
am using the Matrox G450 beta driver with XF 4.0.2 though. Maybe that
was the cause?

Thanks,
Mike

syslogd 1.3-3: restart.
syslog: syslogd startup succeeded
kernel: klogd 1.3-3, log source = /proc/kmsg started.
syslog: klogd startup succeeded
kernel: Inspecting /boot/System.map
kernel: Loaded 6567 symbols from /boot/System.map.
kernel: Symbols match kernel version 2.2.17.
kernel: No module symbols loaded.
kernel: Linux version 2.2.17 (root@nano) (gcc version egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)) #2 Wed Feb 21 02:33:48 EST 2001 
kernel: Detected 900061 kHz processor. 
kernel: ide_setup: idebus=66 
kernel: ide_setup: ide0=ata66 
kernel: Console: colour VGA+ 80x25 

I thought the BogoMIPS sort of went along with the CPU MHz?

kernel: Calibrating delay loop... 1795.69 BogoMIPS 
kernel: Memory: 257852k/262080k available (976k kernel code, 412k reserved, 2796k data, 44k init) 
kernel: Dentry hash table entries: 32768 (order 6, 256k) 
kernel: Buffer cache hash table entries: 262144 (order 8, 1024k) 
kernel: Page cache hash table entries: 65536 (order 6, 256k) 
kernel: CPU: L1 I Cache: 64K  L1 D Cache: 64K 
kernel: CPU: L2 Cache: 256K 
kernel: CPU: AMD Athlon(tm) Processor stepping 02 
kernel: Checking 386/387 coupling... OK, FPU using exception 16 error reporting. 
kernel: Checking 'hlt' instruction... OK. 
kernel: POSIX conformance testing by UNIFIX 
kernel: PCI: PCI BIOS revision 2.10 entry at 0xfb430 
kernel: PCI: Using configuration type 1 
kernel: PCI: Probing PCI hardware 
kernel: Linux NET4.0 for Linux 2.2 
kernel: Based upon Swansea University Computer Society NET3.039 
kernel: NET4: Unix domain sockets 1.0 for Linux NET4.0. 
kernel: NET4: Linux TCP/IP 1.0 for NET4.0 
kernel: IP Protocols: ICMP, UDP, TCP 
kernel: TCP: Hash tables configured (ehash 262144 bhash 65536) 
kernel: Starting kswapd v 1.5  
kernel: Detected PS/2 Mouse Port. 
kernel: Serial driver version 4.27 with no serial options enabled 
kernel: ttyS00 at 0x03f8 (irq = 4) is a 16550A 
kernel: ttyS01 at 0x02f8 (irq = 3) is a 16550A 
kernel: pty: 256 Unix98 ptys configured 
kernel: Uniform Multi-Platform E-IDE driver Revision: 6.30 
kernel: ide: Assuming 66MHz system bus speed for PIO modes 
kernel: VP_IDE: IDE controller on PCI bus 00 dev 39 
kernel: VP_IDE: chipset revision 6 
kernel: VP_IDE: not 100% native mode: will probe irqs later 

This is what I'm worried about right here:

kernel: VP_IDE: ATA-66/100 forced bit set (WARNING)!! 
kernel:     ide0: BM-DMA at 0xe000-0xe007, BIOS settings: hda:DMA, hdb:pio 
kernel:     ide1: BM-DMA at 0xe008-0xe00f, BIOS settings: hdc:pio, hdd:pio 
kernel: hda: IBM-DTLA-307030, ATA DISK drive 
kernel: hdc: PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W1210A, ATAPI CDROM drive 
kernel: ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14 
kernel: ide1 at 0x170-0x177,0x376 on irq 15 
kernel: hda: IBM-DTLA-307030, 29314MB w/1916kB Cache, CHS=3737/255/63, UDMA(100) 
kernel: Floppy drive(s): fd0 is 1.44M 
kernel: FDC 0 is a post-1991 82077 

And why do I have 8 cdroms?

kernel: scsi0 : SCSI host adapter emulation for IDE ATAPI devices 
kernel: scsi : 1 host. 
kernel:   Vendor: PLEXTOR   Model: CD-R   PX-W1210A  Rev: 1.07 
kernel:   Type:   CD-ROM                             ANSI SCSI revision: 02 
kernel: Detected scsi CD-ROM sr0 at scsi0, channel 0, id 0, lun 0 
kernel:   Vendor: PLEXTOR   Model: CD-R   PX-W1210A  Rev: 1.07 
kernel:   Type:   CD-ROM                             ANSI SCSI revision: 02 
kernel: Detected scsi CD-ROM sr1 at scsi0, channel 0, id 0, lun 1 
kernel:   Vendor: PLEXTOR   Model: CD-R   PX-W1210A  Rev: 1.07 
kernel:   Type:   CD-ROM                             ANSI SCSI revision: 02 
kernel: Detected scsi CD-ROM sr2 at scsi0, channel 0, id 0, lun 2 
kernel:   Vendor: PLEXTOR   Model: CD-R   PX-W1210A  Rev: 1.07 
kernel:   Type:   CD-ROM                             ANSI SCSI revision: 02 
kernel: Detected scsi CD-ROM sr3 at scsi0, channel 0, id 0, lun 3 
kernel:   Vendor: PLEXTOR   Model: CD-R   PX-W1210A  Rev: 1.07 
kernel:   Type:   CD-ROM                             ANSI SCSI revision: 02 
kernel: Detected scsi CD-ROM sr4 at scsi0, channel 0, id 0, lun 4 
kernel:   Vendor: PLEXTOR   Model: CD-R   PX-W1210A  Rev: 1.07 
kernel:   Type:   CD-ROM                             ANSI SCSI revision: 02 
kernel: Detected scsi CD-ROM sr5 at scsi0, channel 0, id 0, lun 5 
kernel:   Vendor: PLEXTOR   Model: CD-R   PX-W1210A  Rev: 1.07 
kernel:   Type:   CD-ROM                             ANSI SCSI revision: 02 
kernel: Detected scsi CD-ROM sr6 at scsi0, channel 0, id 0, lun 6 
kernel:   Vendor: PLEXTOR   Model: CD-R   PX-W1210A  Rev: 1.07 
kernel:   Type:   CD-ROM                             ANSI SCSI revision: 02 
kernel: Detected scsi CD-ROM sr7 at scsi0, channel 0, id 0, lun 7 
kernel: scsi : detected 8 SCSI generics 8 SCSI cdroms total. 
kernel: sr0: scsi3-mmc drive: 32x/32x writer cd/rw xa/form2 cdda tray 
kernel: Uniform CD-ROM driver Revision: 3.11 
kernel: sr1: scsi3-mmc drive: 32x/32x writer cd/rw xa/form2 cdda tray 
kernel: sr2: scsi3-mmc drive: 32x/32x writer cd/rw xa/form2 cdda tray 
kernel: sr3: scsi3-mmc drive: 32x/32x writer cd/rw xa/form2 cdda tray 
kernel: sr4: scsi3-mmc drive: 32x/32x writer cd/rw xa/form2 cdda tray 
kernel: sr5: scsi3-mmc drive: 32x/32x writer cd/rw xa/form2 cdda tray 
kernel: sr6: scsi3-mmc drive: 32x/32x writer cd/rw xa/form2 cdda tray 
kernel: sr7: scsi3-mmc drive: 32x/32x writer cd/rw xa/form2 cdda tray 
kernel: 3c59x.c 16Aug00 Donald Becker and others http://www.scyld.com/network/vortex.html 
kernel: eth0: 3Com 3c905C Tornado at 0xec00,  00:01:02:cf:5f:18, IRQ 11 
kernel:   8K byte-wide RAM 5:3 Rx:Tx split, autoselect/Autonegotiate interface. 
kernel:   MII transceiver found at address 24, status 782d. 
kernel:   Enabling bus-master transmits and whole-frame receives. 
kernel: Partition check: 
kernel:  hda: hda1 hda2 
kernel: VFS: Mounted root (ext2 filesystem) readonly. 
kernel: Freeing unused kernel memory: 44k freed 
kernel: Adding Swap: 136544k swap-space (priority -1) 
identd: identd startup succeeded
atd: atd startup succeeded
crond: crond startup succeeded
inet: inetd startup succeeded
lpd: lpd startup succeeded
lpd[457]: restarted
rc.sysinit: Mounting proc filesystem succeeded 
sysctl: net.ipv4.ip_forward = 0 
sysctl: net.ipv4.conf.all.rp_filter = 1 
sysctl: net.ipv4.ip_always_defrag = 0 

Here's another little error?

sysctl: error: 'kernel.sysrq' is an unknown key 
rc.sysinit: Configuring kernel parameters succeeded 
date: Wed Feb 21 17:38:31 EST 2001 
rc.sysinit: Setting clock : Wed Feb 21 17:38:31 EST 2001 succeeded 
rc.sysinit: Loading default keymap succeeded 
rc.sysinit: Activating swap partitions succeeded 
succeeded 
fsck: /dev/hda1: clean, 62090/788704 files, 279756/1574362 blocks 
rc.sysinit: Checking root filesystem succeeded 
rc.sysinit: Remounting root filesystem in read-write mode succeeded 
rc.sysinit: Finding module dependencies succeeded 
rc.sysinit: Checking filesystems succeeded 
rc.sysinit: Mounting local filesystems succeeded 
rc.sysinit: Turning on user and group quotas for local filesystems succeeded 
rc.sysinit: Enabling swap space succeeded 
init: Entering runlevel: 5 
sysctl: net.ipv4.ip_forward = 0 
sysctl: net.ipv4.conf.all.rp_filter = 1 
sysctl: net.ipv4.ip_always_defrag = 0 

Mmm, here's that sysctl stuff again?

sysctl: error: 'kernel.sysrq' is an unknown key 
network: Setting network parameters succeeded 

Err, I have lot's of errors!

ifup: SIOCADDRT: Network is unreachable 
network: Bringing up interface lo succeeded 
network: Bringing up interface eth0 succeeded 
portmap: portmap startup succeeded 
nfslock: rpc.lockd startup succeeded 
nfslock: rpc.statd startup succeeded 
random: Initializing random number generator succeeded 
netfs: Mounting other filesystems succeeded 
keytable: Loading keymap: 
keytable: Loading /usr/lib/kbd/keymaps/i386/qwerty/us.kmap.gz
keytable: Loading system font: 
rc: Starting keytable succeeded
sendmail: sendmail startup succeeded
PAM_pwdb[533]: (gdm) session opened for user miallen by (uid=0)
gdm[533]: gdm_slave_session_start: miallen on :0
PAM_pwdb[615]: (su) session opened for user root by miallen(uid=500)

-- 
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread

* Re: 2.2.17 Lockup and ATA-66/100 forced bit set (WARNING)
       [not found] ` <200102212348.f1LNm6X02792@adsl-209-76-109-63.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net>
@ 2001-02-21 23:33   ` Michael B. Allen
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: Michael B. Allen @ 2001-02-21 23:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Wayne Whitney; +Cc: linux-kernel

On Wed, Feb 21, 2001 at 03:48:06PM -0800, Wayne Whitney wrote:
> >  append="idebus=66 ide0=ata66"
> 
> The idebus=66 part is incorrect.  This option refers to the clock of
> the PCI bus the IDE controller is on and should rarely be changed from
> the default of 33MHz (i.e., only if you are overclocking the PCI bus).

Ah, well I just added that based on the end of this boot message:

ide: Assuming 33MHz system bus speed for PIO modes; override with idebus=xx

> >kernel: VP_IDE: ATA-66/100 forced bit set (WARNING)!! 
> 
> I'm sure this is just telling you that you passed the ide0=ata66
> parameter.  Usually it is best not to do this--the driver should run
> your chipset/drive as fast as possible without 'forcing' the
> configuration.  Of course, testing with hdparm -t is considered the
> definitive way to check how fast the interface is running.

If I don't add it hdparm -t /dev/hda reports:

 Timing buffered disk reads:  64 MB in 16.46 seconds =  3.89 MB/sec

Then if I do hdparm -d1 -X66 /dev/hda I get:

/dev/hda:
 setting using_dma to 1 (on)
 setting xfermode to 66 (UltraDMA mode2)
 using_dma    =  1 (on)

[root@nano /root]# hdparm -t /dev/hda

/dev/hda:
 Timing buffered disk reads:  64 MB in  4.04 seconds = 15.84 MB/sec

Now if I add it via append, reboot and do hdparm -t I get:

 Timing buffered disk reads:  64 MB in  3.70 seconds = 17.30 MB/sec

This last difference is consistently better. Weird.

All your other bets were right too.

Thanks Wayne,
Mike

-- 
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread

* Re: 2.2.17 Lockup and ATA-66/100 forced bit set (WARNING)
  2001-02-21 22:34 2.2.17 Lockup and ATA-66/100 forced bit set (WARNING) Michael B. Allen
  2001-02-21  1:33 ` Tim Moore
       [not found] ` <200102212348.f1LNm6X02792@adsl-209-76-109-63.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net>
@ 2001-02-21 23:36 ` Dan Hollis
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: Dan Hollis @ 2001-02-21 23:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael B. Allen; +Cc: linux-kernel

On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Michael B. Allen wrote:
> And why do I have 8 cdroms?
> kernel: scsi0 : SCSI host adapter emulation for IDE ATAPI devices
> kernel: scsi : 1 host.
> kernel:   Vendor: PLEXTOR   Model: CD-R   PX-W1210A  Rev: 1.07
> kernel:   Type:   CD-ROM                             ANSI SCSI revision: 02

It's an old old bug with the ide-scsi lun probing code. Dont know if 2.4.x
fixed it yet. Solution -- disable lun probing in scsi config.

-Dan


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread

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Thread overview: 4+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
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2001-02-21 22:34 2.2.17 Lockup and ATA-66/100 forced bit set (WARNING) Michael B. Allen
2001-02-21  1:33 ` Tim Moore
     [not found] ` <200102212348.f1LNm6X02792@adsl-209-76-109-63.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net>
2001-02-21 23:33   ` Michael B. Allen
2001-02-21 23:36 ` Dan Hollis

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