windows is more secure than linux!!

windows is more secure than linux!!

[william fitzgerald]

hi all,

some of you might find this interesting others
disheartening

www.shortnews.com/shownews.cfm?id=16886&u_id=623



Beer Mail, brought to you by your friends at beer.com.

Re: windows is more secure than linux!!

[Bugtraq Mailing Lists]

The whole news article regarding this is preposterous, and are hilarious
claims.

> hi all,
>
> some of you might find this interesting others
> disheartening
>
> www.shortnews.com/shownews.cfm?id=16886&u_id=623
>
>
>
> Beer Mail, brought to you by your friends at beer.com.
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
>

Re: windows is more secure than linux!!

[Alan Cox]

> some of you might find this interesting others
> disheartening
> 
> www.shortnews.com/shownews.cfm?id=16886&u_id=623

See "Accountancy, Enron"

3+Gb of software accounted as Linux
multiplied by each per vendor announcement

versus

only the stuff strictly on the base windows CD


I would have thought even Arthur Andersen could work that one out

Re: windows is more secure than linux!!

[Garrett Marone]

Try adding up all the vulnerabilities in every piece of windows software, 
Microsoft written or not, and then compare.  Then I might listen based on 
these numbers.  



In the last episode (Tuesday 05 February 2002 08:11 am), Alan Cox wrote:
> some of you might find this interesting others
> disheartening
>
> www.shortnews.com/shownews.cfm?id=16886&u_id=623

See "Accountancy, Enron"

3+Gb of software accounted as Linux
multiplied by each per vendor announcement

versus

only the stuff strictly on the base windows CD


I would have thought even Arthur Andersen could work that one out


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To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
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-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Things equal to nothing else are equal to each other. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: windows is more secure than linux!!

[Rik van Riel]

On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, william fitzgerald wrote:

> some of you might find this interesting others
> disheartening

Still others, like me, find it very encouraging
that Microsoft can't stop talking about Linux.
They must be enthusiastic about it, or something.

> www.shortnews.com/shownews.cfm?id=16886&u_id=623

Now add the security holes in ISS, Outlook, Exchange,
Access and all available pieces of Windows software
into the picture so Linux and Windows are measured on
an equal ground.

Lies, damn lies & statistics.

regards,

Rik
-- 
DMCA, SSSCA, W3C?  Who cares?  http://thefreeworld.net/

http://www.surriel.com/		http://distro.conectiva.com/

Re: windows is more secure than linux!!

[Drew P. Vogel]

One thing I haven't seen argued is what I find most important. The time
frame in which I am vulnerable. I'd rather have 10x the number of
vulnerabilities which last 1/10th the time.

--Drew Vogel

On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Rik van Riel wrote:

>On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, william fitzgerald wrote:
>
>> some of you might find this interesting others
>> disheartening
>
>Still others, like me, find it very encouraging
>that Microsoft can't stop talking about Linux.
>They must be enthusiastic about it, or something.
>
>> www.shortnews.com/shownews.cfm?id=16886&u_id=623
>
>Now add the security holes in ISS, Outlook, Exchange,
>Access and all available pieces of Windows software
>into the picture so Linux and Windows are measured on
>an equal ground.
>
>Lies, damn lies & statistics.
>
>regards,
>
>Rik
>--
>DMCA, SSSCA, W3C?  Who cares?  http://thefreeworld.net/
>
>http://www.surriel.com/		http://distro.conectiva.com/
>
>-
>To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
>the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
>More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
>

RE: windows is more secure than linux!!

[Brenneke, Matthew Jeffrey (UMR-Student)]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rik van Riel [mailto:riel@conectiva.com.br]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 12:42 PM
> To: william fitzgerald
> Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
> Subject: Re: windows is more secure than linux!!

> Lies, damn lies & statistics.
> 
> regards,
> 
> Rik

42.3454% of statistics are completely made up

Matt Brenneke
mbrennek@umr.edu

Re: windows is more secure than linux!!

[Andreas Tscharner]

On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 16:41:42 -0200 (BRST)
Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br> wrote:

[snip]
> > www.shortnews.com/shownews.cfm?id=16886&u_id=623
> 
> Now add the security holes in ISS, Outlook, Exchange,
> Access and all available pieces of Windows software
> into the picture so Linux and Windows are measured on
> an equal ground.

You don't even need to...

>From http://lwn.net/daily/

"Somebody needs to point out to them that they are counting the same vulnerabilities four times."

Regards
	Andreas
-- 
Andreas Tscharner                                     starfire@dplanet.ch
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build 
bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce
bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." -- Rich Cook 

Re: windows is more secure than linux!!

[James Stevenson]

----- Original Message -----
From: "william fitzgerald" <william.fitzgerald2@beer.com>
To: <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 11:47 AM
Subject: windows is more secure than linux!!


> hi all,
>
> some of you might find this interesting others
> disheartening
>
> www.shortnews.com/shownews.cfm?id=16886&u_id=623

Hi

ahh that was on security focus

you mean windows is more secure than mandrake or redhat
but not linux

but at least you can have a chance of securing linux youself
of fixing holes when they are found unlike other systems
like windows

RE: windows is more secure than linux!!

[Little, John]

>From the security focus website :

Several things should be taken into consideration when interpreting these
numbers:

These numbers are dated; the collection and calculation of data stopped in
early August 2001 due to a site migration issue. We are currently working on
this issue and should have it resolved in the near future.

There is a distinct difference in the way that vulnerabilities are counted
for Microsoft Windows and other operating systems. For instance,
applications for Linux and BSD are often grouped in as subcomponents with
the operating systems that they are shipped with. For Windows, applications
and subcomponents such as Explorer often have their own packages that are
considered vulnerable or not vulnerable outside of Windows and therefore may
not be included in the count. This may skew numbers.

This is a simple raw count of the vulnerabilities in our database that are
associated directly with an operating system. The factors mentioned above
were not taken into consideration when generating these graphs.

The numbers presented below should not be considered a metric by which an
accurate comparison 

-----Original Message-----
From: Andreas Tscharner [mailto:starfire@dplanet.ch]
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 3:19 PM
To: Rik van Riel; Linux Kernel Mailinglist
Subject: Re: windows is more secure than linux!!


On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 16:41:42 -0200 (BRST)
Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br> wrote:

[snip]
> > www.shortnews.com/shownews.cfm?id=16886&u_id=623
> 
> Now add the security holes in ISS, Outlook, Exchange,
> Access and all available pieces of Windows software
> into the picture so Linux and Windows are measured on
> an equal ground.

You don't even need to...

>From http://lwn.net/daily/

"Somebody needs to point out to them that they are counting the same
vulnerabilities four times."

Regards
	Andreas
-- 
Andreas Tscharner                                     starfire@dplanet.ch
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build 
bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce
bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." -- Rich Cook 
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To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
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Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/

RE: windows is more secure than linux!!

[Stevie O]

At 03:13 PM 2/5/2002 -0600, Brenneke, Matthew Jeffrey (UMR-Student) wrote:
> > Lies, damn lies & statistics.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > Rik
>
>42.3454% of statistics are completely made up

yeah, 17.3% of all people know that


--
Stevie-O

Real programmers use COPY CON PROGRAM.EXE

Re: windows is more secure than linux!!

[Stevie O]

At 11:47 AM 2/6/2002 +2400, william fitzgerald wrote:
>hi all,
>
>some of you might find this interesting others
>disheartening
>
>www.shortnews.com/shownews.cfm?id=16886&u_id=623


Face it guys, statistics don't lie:

[Windows]
Bugs in Windows XP system services resulting in a security hole: 1 (UnPnP)

[Linux]
Bugs in wu-ftpd and BIND: billions



Linux is so way worse!



what? wu-ftpd isnt linux? yes it is! its on freshmeat!


--
Stevie-O

Real programmers use COPY CON PROGRAM.EXE

Re: windows is more secure than linux!!

[Ruben Safir]

So crack monkey removes windows with an HTML hit


On 2002.02.06 00:12:51 -0500 Stevie O wrote:
>>At 11:47 AM 2/6/2002 +2400, william fitzgerald wrote:
>>>hi all,
>>>
>>>some of you might find this interesting others
>>>disheartening
>>>
>>>www.shortnews.com/shownews.cfm?id=16886&u_id=623
>>
>>
>>Face it guys, statistics don't lie:
>>
>>[Windows]
>>Bugs in Windows XP system services resulting in a security hole: 1 (UnPnP)
>>
>>[Linux]
>>Bugs in wu-ftpd and BIND: billions
>>
>>
>>
>>Linux is so way worse!
>>
>>
>>
>>what? wu-ftpd isnt linux? yes it is! its on freshmeat!
>>
>>
>>--
>>Stevie-O
>>
>>Real programmers use COPY CON PROGRAM.EXE
>>
>>-
>>To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
>>the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
>>More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>>Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
>>
-- 
__________________________

Brooklyn Linux Solutions
__________________________
http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
http://www.brooklynonline.com - For the love of Brooklyn
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www.nyfairuse.org - The foundation of Democracy
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/mp3/hooked.mp3 - Spring is coming....
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....

1-718-382-5752

RE: windows is more secure than linux!!

[Anthony Kong]

Probably time to stop this discussion. If you guys still want to discusss,
it should be in some advocate groups?

Let's this list back to what it is set up for.

Thanks,


Anthony

P.S. We are no Big Corporates and are not targeting (enlarging) market
share, and hence not interested in marketing gimmick, aren't we? (if you
disagree, please also respond to it in some other newsgroup :-)


-----Original Message-----
From: Ruben Safir [mailto:ruben@mrbrklyn.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 1:25 PM
To: Stevie O
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: windows is more secure than linux!!


So crack monkey removes windows with an HTML hit


On 2002.02.06 00:12:51 -0500 Stevie O wrote:
>>At 11:47 AM 2/6/2002 +2400, william fitzgerald wrote:
>>>hi all,
>>>
>>>some of you might find this interesting others
>>>disheartening
>>>
>>>www.shortnews.com/shownews.cfm?id=16886&u_id=623
>>
>>
>>Face it guys, statistics don't lie:
>>
>>[Windows]
>>Bugs in Windows XP system services resulting in a security hole: 1 (UnPnP)
>>
>>[Linux]
>>Bugs in wu-ftpd and BIND: billions
>>
>>
>>
>>Linux is so way worse!
>>
>>
>>
>>what? wu-ftpd isnt linux? yes it is! its on freshmeat!
>>
>>
>>--
>>Stevie-O
>>
>>Real programmers use COPY CON PROGRAM.EXE
>>
>>-
>>To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
>>the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
>>More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>>Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
>>
-- 
__________________________

Brooklyn Linux Solutions
__________________________
http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
http://www.brooklynonline.com - For the love of Brooklyn
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www.nyfairuse.org - The foundation of Democracy
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and
articles from around the net
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/mp3/hooked.mp3 - Spring is coming....
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....

1-718-382-5752



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Re: windows is more secure than linux!!

[Daniel Phillips]

On February 5, 2002 07:41 pm, Rik van Riel wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, william fitzgerald wrote:
> 
> > some of you might find this interesting others
> > disheartening
> 
> Still others, like me, find it very encouraging
> that Microsoft can't stop talking about Linux.
> They must be enthusiastic about it, or something.
> 
> > www.shortnews.com/shownews.cfm?id=16886&u_id=623
> 
> Now add the security holes in ISS, Outlook, Exchange,
> Access and all available pieces of Windows software
> into the picture so Linux and Windows are measured on
> an equal ground.

And divide Linux vulnerabilities by the number of vendors, and adjust for the 
fact that Linux vendors try to report all vulnerabilities while Microsoft 
tries to keep them secret.

> Lies, damn lies & statistics.

How about Lies, damn lies, wild crazy lies and 'journalistic interpretation
of statistics'.  Err, and has anybody mentioned integrity yet.  In so many 
words.

-- 
Daniel

Re: windows is more secure than linux!!

[Martin Dalecki]

Stevie O wrote:

> At 11:47 AM 2/6/2002 +2400, william fitzgerald wrote:
>
>> hi all,
>>
>> some of you might find this interesting others
>> disheartening
>>
>> www.shortnews.com/shownews.cfm?id=16886&u_id=623
>
>
>
> Face it guys, statistics don't lie:
>
> [Windows]
> Bugs in Windows XP system services resulting in a security hole: 1 
> (UnPnP)
>
> [Linux]
> Bugs in wu-ftpd and BIND: billions
>
You miss the simple fact that there is no wu-ftpd equivalent on Windows 
XP running.

Re: windows is more secure than linux!!

[Stevie O]

Let's see, three private responses and a few public ones...

At 9:15am on 2/6/2002, Szonyi Calin (Calin Szonyi?) wrote:

> > Face it guys, statistics don't lie:
>
>Ever heard of a survey made on 1000 people which
>is relevant for 250,000,000 people ?
>
> >
> > [Windows]
> > Bugs in Windows XP system services resulting in a
> > security hole: 1 (UnPnP)
>
>And the viruses ?
>And the older windows OS's ?
>try on a 98 box
>Start-> run -> /con/con
>
> >
> > [Linux]
> > Bugs in wu-ftpd and BIND: billions
>
>You are still using wu-ftpd ? Than ... enjoy :-))
>In linux you can run a program chrooted.
>
>In Mickey$oft $oftware you have to wait for the
>patches. And wait, and wait ...
>
> >
> > Linux is so way worse!
> >
>
>Enjoy windows! Enjoy computer taking control over you!
>Enjoy BSOD! Enjoy viruses! Enjoy no customization!
>Enjoy spontaneus reboots! Enjoy a 32bit GUI on a top
>of a 16bit OS (win 9x)
> >
> > what? wu-ftpd isnt linux? yes it is! its on
> > freshmeat!
>
>You mean every "fresh meat" == "Linux" ?
>No comment
>
>Calin


---


At 6:17pm 2/6/2002 +0900, David Blomberg wrote:

>         > Face it guys, statistics don't lie:
>
>         http://securityfocus.com/vulns/stats.shtml
>Read the real article
>
>         >
>         > Linux is so way worse!
>         >
>
>         Counting 3+ Sql Servers, a few mail servers, a dozen web browsers, a
>couple office suites
>         compared to MS OS (yeah that's a fair comparison and Linux still
>comes out even) :>
>
>Since when did fresh meat become the sole Linux authority?

---


At 11:09 AM 2/6/2002 +0100, Martin Dalecki wrote:

>>Face it guys, statistics don't lie:
>>
>>[Windows]
>>Bugs in Windows XP system services resulting in a security hole: 1 (UnPnP)
>>
>>[Linux]
>>Bugs in wu-ftpd and BIND: billions
>You miss the simple fact that there is no wu-ftpd equivalent on Windows XP 
>running.

---

http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=satire


--
Stevie-O

Real programmers use COPY CON PROGRAM.EXE

Re: windows is more secure than linux!!

[Andrew Scott]

On 5 Feb 2002 at 16:41, Rik van Riel wrote:

> On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, william fitzgerald wrote:
> 
> > some of you might find this interesting others
> > disheartening
> 
> Still others, like me, find it very encouraging
> that Microsoft can't stop talking about Linux.
> They must be enthusiastic about it, or something.
> 
> > www.shortnews.com/shownews.cfm?id=16886&u_id=623
> 
> Now add the security holes in ISS, Outlook, Exchange,
> Access and all available pieces of Windows software
> into the picture so Linux and Windows are measured on
> an equal ground.
> 
> Lies, damn lies & statistics.

Or as my dad used to say, "Figures don't lie, but liers can figure".


                      _
                     / \   / ascott@casdn.neu.edu
                    / \ \ /
                   /   \_/

Re: windows is more secure than linux!!

[Richard B. Johnson]

On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Andrew Scott wrote:

> On 5 Feb 2002 at 16:41, Rik van Riel wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, william fitzgerald wrote:
> > 
> > > some of you might find this interesting others
> > > disheartening
> > 
> > Still others, like me, find it very encouraging
> > that Microsoft can't stop talking about Linux.
> > They must be enthusiastic about it, or something.
> > 
> > > www.shortnews.com/shownews.cfm?id=16886&u_id=623
> > 
> > Now add the security holes in ISS, Outlook, Exchange,
> > Access and all available pieces of Windows software
> > into the picture so Linux and Windows are measured on
> > an equal ground.
> > 
> > Lies, damn lies & statistics.
> 
> Or as my dad used to say, "Figures don't lie, but liers can figure".
> 

FYI Windows can't stay running long enough to pose much of a
security hazard. A week ago, I dumbed-down one of my boxes at
home, that had been running Linux reliably for over a year. I
wanted to install Cakewalk Home Studio and it hasn't (yet) been
ported to Linux. So far, I have re-installed everything 4 times,
plus the 'mandatory' Windows/2000 patch. It is impossible to
do anything useful for more than an hour without encountering
the Blue-Screen-of-Death, followed by a re-install because the
machine won't complete a boot without another 'blue-screen'.

So, it's true. Linux, which can stay running for 300 or more days,
is a good target for Internet Hackers to poke at -- and we've got
lots of servers on-line just baiting hackers for DOS attacks. Most
Windows machines don't poke their dirty noses out from behind
fire-walls, so they are "more secure".

Cheers,
Dick Johnson

Penguin : Linux version 2.4.1 on an i686 machine (797.90 BogoMips).

    I was going to compile a list of innovations that could be
    attributed to Microsoft. Once I realized that Ctrl-Alt-Del
    was handled in the BIOS, I found that there aren't any.