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From: Martin Dalecki <dalecki@evision-ventures.com>
To: Alexander Viro <viro@math.psu.edu>
Cc: Vojtech Pavlik <vojtech@suse.cz>,
	Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
	Padraig Brady <padraig@antefacto.com>,
	Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] 2.5.17 /dev/ports
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 15:40:03 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3CEB9FB3.9040401@evision-ventures.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0205221030100.2737-100000@weyl.math.psu.edu>

Uz.ytkownik Alexander Viro napisa?:
> 
> On Wed, 22 May 2002, Martin Dalecki wrote:
> 
> 
>>>For kbdrate???  sysctl I might see - after all, we are talking about
>>>setting two numbers.  ioctl() to pass a couple of integers to the kernel?
>>>No, thanks.
>>
> 
> If you are complaining about use of /dev/port - I completely agree that it's
> crap...

Oh then sorry we must have missed the point.
Maybe I was just too eager for a nice flame-war which doesn't
contain the magical word BitKeeper or similar ;-)...
Anyway I'm satisfied now ;-))))...


>>Portable along architectures - no thanks?
>>Portbale along different devices and device driver implementations - no thanks?
>>Not to mess with hardware with preassumtptions how it works - no thanks?
>>Giving PC vendors a chance to get rid of silly legacy hardware - no thanks?
>>Abviously documented by beeing there - no thanks?
> 
> 
> ... but WTF does it have to ioctl vs. saner mechanisms?

It's all about the basic principle that operating systems
serve the principal purpose of abstracting hardware inferfaces
out of the actual hardware implementation and provide
*abstract* interfaces to the user space programmer. Not
more.

In this particular case it's just that ioctl fits it best.
Becouse:

1. It's already there.

2. What is there should only be fixed.

3. It's at the right level (input hardware).

4. It's more easy to implement then every thing else.

5. It's easiest to use by the application programmer.

6. I don't think that there is something saner out there.

7. Did I mention that it's already there?

But now I see that you have just certainly missed only
some previous points in this "discussion" and I wouldn't
of couse at no single second think seriously,
that the former triviallity isn't abvious to you ;-).


  reply	other threads:[~2002-05-22 14:45 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 143+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-05-21  5:16 Linux-2.5.17 Linus Torvalds
2002-05-21 13:58 ` Linux-2.5.17 Roman Zippel
2002-05-21 16:06   ` Linux-2.5.17 Linus Torvalds
2002-05-21 18:36     ` Linux-2.5.17 Roman Zippel
2002-05-21 18:53       ` Linux-2.5.17 Linus Torvalds
2002-05-21 23:35         ` Linux-2.5.17 Roman Zippel
2002-05-22  0:10           ` Linux-2.5.17 Linus Torvalds
2002-05-22  0:31             ` Linux-2.5.17 Roman Zippel
2002-05-22  0:54               ` Linux-2.5.17 Linus Torvalds
2002-05-22  2:17                 ` Linux-2.5.17 David S. Miller
2002-05-22  2:40                   ` Linux-2.5.17 Linus Torvalds
2002-05-22  2:57                     ` Linux-2.5.17 David S. Miller
2002-05-22  3:21                       ` Linux-2.5.17 Linus Torvalds
2002-05-22  8:06                         ` Linux-2.5.17 David Lang
2002-05-22 14:14                         ` Linux-2.5.17 Dave McCracken
2002-05-22 16:10                           ` Linux-2.5.17 Linus Torvalds
2002-05-22 13:45                 ` Linux-2.5.17 Roman Zippel
2002-05-22 16:08                   ` Linux-2.5.17 Linus Torvalds
2002-05-21 15:32 ` [PATCH] 2.5.17 IDE 65 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-21 16:59   ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-21 16:35     ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-21 17:56       ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-21 18:49         ` Alan Cox
2002-05-21 20:08         ` Vojtech Pavlik
2002-05-21 23:28           ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-22  6:53             ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-23  7:01               ` Kai Henningsen
2002-05-22  7:16 ` [PATCH] 2.5.17 IDE 66 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-22  7:19 ` [PATCH] 2.5.17 IDE 67 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-22 17:13   ` Tom Rini
2002-05-22 16:21     ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-22 17:31       ` Tom Rini
2002-05-22 16:40         ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-22 18:47           ` Tom Rini
2002-05-23  6:08             ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-23 15:26               ` Tom Rini
2002-05-23 14:32                 ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-23 15:40                   ` Tom Rini
2002-05-22  7:23 ` [PATCH] 2.5.16 IDE 68 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-22 10:48   ` Juan Quintela
2002-05-22  9:45     ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-22 15:55   ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-22 15:03     ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-22  9:05 ` [PATCH] 2.5.17 /dev/ports Martin Dalecki
2002-05-22 10:42   ` Paul Mackerras
2002-05-22  9:46     ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-22 10:54     ` David S. Miller
2002-05-22 10:13       ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-22 11:26         ` Russell King
2002-05-22 10:40           ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-22 11:58             ` Richard B. Johnson
2002-05-22 12:36             ` Russell King
2002-05-22 13:23               ` Alan Cox
2002-05-22 12:31                 ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-22 12:44           ` Alan Cox
2002-05-22 12:32             ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-22 15:05               ` Alan Cox
2002-05-22 13:05       ` Alan Cox
2002-05-22 12:38         ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-22 15:04           ` Alan Cox
2002-05-22 13:53             ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-22 15:03               ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2002-05-22 15:07               ` Padraig Brady
2002-05-22 14:07                 ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-22 15:21                   ` Dave Jones
2002-05-22 15:19               ` Dave Jones
2002-05-22 15:31               ` Alan Cox
2002-05-27  9:04               ` Pavel Machek
2002-05-22 14:54             ` Alexander Viro
2002-05-22 15:24               ` Alan Cox
2002-05-22 15:10                 ` Alexander Viro
2002-07-22 12:20                   ` Ruth Ivimey-Cook
2002-05-23  7:30               ` Rusty Russell
2002-05-23  6:44                 ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-23  8:26                   ` Rusty Russell
2002-05-22 13:16   ` Padraig Brady
2002-05-22 12:30     ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-22 13:50       ` Sebastian Droege
2002-05-22 13:52     ` Alan Cox
2002-05-22 13:49       ` Vojtech Pavlik
2002-05-22 12:51         ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-22 13:56           ` Vojtech Pavlik
2002-05-22 14:58             ` Alan Cox
2002-05-22 13:49               ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-22 14:42               ` Vojtech Pavlik
2002-05-22 13:59           ` Alexander Viro
2002-05-22 13:12             ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-22 14:33               ` Alexander Viro
2002-05-22 13:40                 ` Martin Dalecki [this message]
2002-05-22 13:16             ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-22 14:34               ` Alexander Viro
2002-05-22 16:31               ` James Simmons
2002-05-22 14:12             ` Vojtech Pavlik
2002-05-27  9:07             ` Pavel Machek
2002-05-22 15:00         ` Alan Cox
2002-05-22 14:43           ` Vojtech Pavlik
2002-05-22 16:28   ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-22 17:22     ` Alan Cox
2002-05-22 16:17       ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-22 17:30         ` Russell King
2002-05-22 16:36           ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-22 17:36           ` Alexander Viro
2002-05-22 17:46         ` Alan Cox
2002-05-26 13:53         ` Riley Williams
2002-05-26 15:28           ` Vojtech Pavlik
2002-05-26 15:39             ` Riley Williams
2002-05-23 10:10     ` Martin Diehl
2002-05-22 10:54 ` Linux-2.5.17 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-22 12:04   ` Linux-2.5.17 Alexander Viro
2002-05-22 13:07     ` Linux-2.5.17 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-22 14:38       ` Linux-2.5.17 Alexander Viro
2002-05-22 13:42         ` Linux-2.5.17 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-22 16:55       ` Linux-2.5.17 Jan Kara
2002-05-22 12:14   ` Linux-2.5.17 Russell King
2002-05-22 12:36     ` Linux-2.5.17 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-22 16:02     ` Linux-2.5.17 Linus Torvalds
2002-05-22 15:04       ` Linux-2.5.17 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-22 16:58         ` Linux-2.5.17 Jan Kara
2002-05-22 16:08           ` Linux-2.5.17 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-22 17:56             ` Linux-2.5.17 Jan Kara
2002-05-22 16:56               ` Linux-2.5.17 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-22 18:17                 ` Linux-2.5.17 Jan Kara
2002-05-22 18:36                   ` Linux-2.5.17 Russell King
2002-05-22 13:06   ` Linux-2.5.17 Alan Cox
2002-05-22 11:19 ` Linux-2.5.17 Russell King
2002-05-22 11:27   ` Linux-2.5.17 David S. Miller
2002-05-22 16:23   ` Linux-2.5.17 Linus Torvalds
2002-05-22 17:31 ` [PATCH] 2.5.17 IDE 69 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-23  7:32 ` [PATCH] 2.5.17 sysvipc (AKA: spoiling oil in to the flames) Martin Dalecki
2002-05-24 13:59 ` Linux-2.5.17 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-24 14:23 ` [PATCH] 2.5.17 IDE 70 Martin Dalecki
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-05-22 16:30 [PATCH] 2.5.17 /dev/ports James Simmons
2002-05-22 17:25 ` Alan Cox
2002-05-22 17:39   ` James Simmons
     [not found] <mailman.1022085725.386.linux-kernel2news@redhat.com>
2002-05-23 17:07 ` Pete Zaitcev
2002-05-23 18:05   ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-23 19:54     ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-23 19:31       ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-23 21:22         ` Christer Weinigel
2002-05-23 21:37           ` Pete Zaitcev
2002-05-23 20:53             ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-24  5:39           ` Robert Schwebel
2002-05-23 21:29         ` Pete Zaitcev

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