[parisc-linux] PCI Intel EtherExpressPro100 strangeness on C200 machine.

[parisc-linux] PCI Intel EtherExpressPro100 strangeness on C200 machine.

[B. Douglas Hilton]

Hello list. For some reason my onboard LAN devices
all mysteriously died and disappeared from the
firmware, so I purchased an eepro100 card to try
and get some networking connectivity back.

When I modprobe eepro100 it seems to be ok. I can
do an 'ifup -a' and then ifconfig lists my eth0
and it appears to be configured properly. I can
ping other servers in my LAN, and I can do an
ftp login, but as soon a I type "ls" it goes out
to lunch and locks up.

Likewise I can ping numeric ip's on the internet,
but name resolution is not working.

Could this be an endianness problem? Any ideas?

Any tips on how to reactivate the onboard ether
devices would be greatly appreciated too.

Re: [parisc-linux] PCI Intel EtherExpressPro100 strangeness on C200 machine.

[Andreas Seltenreich]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 909 bytes --]

Hi,

just append " || defined(__hppa__)" to line 47 of drivers/net/eepro100.c
I got mine working that way.

Regards,
andreas

* B. Douglas Hilton <bdhilton@charter.net> [2002-08-17 22:32]:
> Hello list. For some reason my onboard LAN devices
> all mysteriously died and disappeared from the
> firmware, so I purchased an eepro100 card to try
> and get some networking connectivity back.
> 
> When I modprobe eepro100 it seems to be ok. I can
> do an 'ifup -a' and then ifconfig lists my eth0
> and it appears to be configured properly. I can
> ping other servers in my LAN, and I can do an
> ftp login, but as soon a I type "ls" it goes out
> to lunch and locks up.
> 
> Likewise I can ping numeric ip's on the internet,
> but name resolution is not working.
> 
> Could this be an endianness problem? Any ideas?
> 
> Any tips on how to reactivate the onboard ether
> devices would be greatly appreciated too.

[-- Attachment #2: diff --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 465 bytes --]

--- linux/drivers/net/eepro100.c	Mon Aug  5 02:12:20 2002
+++ linux/drivers/net/eepro100.c	Sun Aug 18 00:15:55 2002
@@ -44,7 +44,7 @@
 /* Set the copy breakpoint for the copy-only-tiny-buffer Rx method.
    Lower values use more memory, but are faster. */
 #if defined(__alpha__) || defined(__sparc__) || defined(__mips__) || \
-    defined(__arm__)
+    defined(__arm__) || defined(__hppa__)
 static int rx_copybreak = 1518;
 #else
 static int rx_copybreak = 200;

Re: [parisc-linux] PCI Intel EtherExpressPro100 strangeness on C200 machine.

[B. Douglas Hilton]

I tried your suggestions and built a new kernel, but
it still behaves as it did prior to the modification.


To summarize (with eepro100 in PCI slot ):

  - can ping using a dotted quad
  - cannot ping using dns
  - can ftp login to another machine on my LAN
  - when I try to list files or download it locks up.

Onboard tulip and LASI ethernet devices seem to have died.

This is a major headache. I don't believe that the Debian 3.0
cdrom will boot on the C200, and without network I can't
upgrade the 0.9.3 cdrom. Its a catch-22!



Andreas Seltenreich wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> just append " || defined(__hppa__)" to line 47 of drivers/net/eepro100.c
> I got mine working that way.
> 
> Regards,
> andreas
> 
> * B. Douglas Hilton <bdhilton@charter.net> [2002-08-17 22:32]:
> 
>>Hello list. For some reason my onboard LAN devices
>>all mysteriously died and disappeared from the
>>firmware, so I purchased an eepro100 card to try
>>and get some networking connectivity back.
>>
>>When I modprobe eepro100 it seems to be ok. I can
>>do an 'ifup -a' and then ifconfig lists my eth0
>>and it appears to be configured properly. I can
>>ping other servers in my LAN, and I can do an
>>ftp login, but as soon a I type "ls" it goes out
>>to lunch and locks up.
>>
>>Likewise I can ping numeric ip's on the internet,
>>but name resolution is not working.
>>
>>Could this be an endianness problem? Any ideas?
>>
>>Any tips on how to reactivate the onboard ether
>>devices would be greatly appreciated too.
>>

Re: [parisc-linux] PCI Intel EtherExpressPro100 strangeness on C200 machine.

[Andreas Seltenreich]

* B. Douglas Hilton <bdhilton@charter.net> [2002-08-18 04:01]:
> I tried your suggestions and built a new kernel, but
> it still behaves as it did prior to the modification.

Just to be sure, you did rebuild the eepro100 module too?

I'm using the nic for hours now and it is working perfectly.

> To summarize (with eepro100 in PCI slot ):
> 
>  - can ping using a dotted quad
>  - cannot ping using dns
>  - can ftp login to another machine on my LAN
>  - when I try to list files or download it locks up.

With the original module (2.4.19-pa2) I wasn't able to receive ip packets
larger than approx 150 bytes. For example a ping -s 100  went through
while ping -s 200 didn't. 

> This is a major headache. I don't believe that the Debian 3.0
> cdrom will boot on the C200, and without network I can't
> upgrade the 0.9.3 cdrom. Its a catch-22!

Btw. the diff was from 2.4.19-pa2. Maybe there have been other changes
if you are using an older kernel.

The address of the maintainer Andrey V. Savochkin <saw@saw.sw.com.sg>
seems to be broken. So no help from there.

regards
andreas

Re: [parisc-linux] PCI Intel EtherExpressPro100 strangeness on C200 machine.

[B. Douglas Hilton]

Yes I made a monolithic kernel, so it rebuilt eepro100.c

Prior, I was using a stock Debian vmlinux-2.4.18-32 kernel
so there is a good chance that the Debian packager had made
the same modification to the source.



Andreas Seltenreich wrote:
> * B. Douglas Hilton <bdhilton@charter.net> [2002-08-18 04:01]:
> 
>>I tried your suggestions and built a new kernel, but
>>it still behaves as it did prior to the modification.
> 
> 
> Just to be sure, you did rebuild the eepro100 module too?
> 
> I'm using the nic for hours now and it is working perfectly.
> 

Hmmm....

> 
>>To summarize (with eepro100 in PCI slot ):
>>
>> - can ping using a dotted quad
>> - cannot ping using dns
>> - can ftp login to another machine on my LAN
>> - when I try to list files or download it locks up.
> 
> 
> With the original module (2.4.19-pa2) I wasn't able to receive ip packets
> larger than approx 150 bytes. For example a ping -s 100  went through
> while ping -s 200 didn't. 
> 
> 
>>This is a major headache. I don't believe that the Debian 3.0
>>cdrom will boot on the C200, and without network I can't
>>upgrade the 0.9.3 cdrom. Its a catch-22!
> 
> 
> Btw. the diff was from 2.4.19-pa2. Maybe there have been other changes
> if you are using an older kernel.
> 

I guess I will try that one then. Thanks.

> The address of the maintainer Andrey V. Savochkin <saw@saw.sw.com.sg>
> seems to be broken. So no help from there.
> 
> regards
> andreas
> 

Re: [parisc-linux] PCI Intel EtherExpressPro100 strangeness on C200 machine.

[Grant Grundler]

Andreas Seltenreich wrote:
> just append " || defined(__hppa__)" to line 47 of drivers/net/eepro100.c
> I got mine working that way.

The RX_ALIGN shouldn't strictly be needed. It's a performance improvement.
It means the misaligned access handling isn't working right. And should be
spewing something to the kernel dmesg buf. IIRC, Randolph Chung has done a
great job on getting most of the misaligned access emulation working right.
If you get console/dmesg output when using eepro100, please post it here.

If someone with CVS access has time, please enable the RX_ALIGN
code for __hppa__ as well. I have other changes outstanding (cpqfc)
that I want to finished up and committed first.

grant

Re: [parisc-linux] PCI Intel EtherExpressPro100 strangeness on C200 machine.

[B. Douglas Hilton]

Here is my dmesg output that your requested, and my
ifconfig status right after booting. I typed this in
by hand, hopefully no typos.


eepro100.c:v1.09j-t 9/29/99 Donald Becker http://www.scyld.com/network/eepro100.html
eepro100.c: $Revision: 1.36 $ 2000/11/17 Modified by Andrey V. Savochkin <saw@saw.sw.com.sg> and others
eth0: Intel Corp. 82557 [Ethernet Pro 100], 00:90:27:60:CB:E6, IRQ 130.
   Board assembly 721383-006, Physical connectors present: RJ45
   Primary interface chip i82555 PHY #1.
   General self-test: passed.
   Serial sub-system self-test: passed.
   Internal registers self-test: passed.
   ROM checksum self-test: passed (0x8b51f404).


eth0    Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr:00:90:27:60:CB:E6
         inet addr:192.168.100.115  Bcast:192.168.100.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
         RX packets:25 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
         TX packets:9 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
         collisions:0 txqueuelen:100
         RX bytes:2668 (2.6 KiB)  TX bytes:558 (558.0 b)
         Interrupt:130 Base address:0xf000



Well, I'm heading out to camp. Back on Monday.

Cheers!
- Doug




Grant Grundler wrote:
> Andreas Seltenreich wrote:
> 
>>just append " || defined(__hppa__)" to line 47 of drivers/net/eepro100.c
>>I got mine working that way.
> 
> 
> The RX_ALIGN shouldn't strictly be needed. It's a performance improvement.
> It means the misaligned access handling isn't working right. And should be
> spewing something to the kernel dmesg buf. IIRC, Randolph Chung has done a
> great job on getting most of the misaligned access emulation working right.
> If you get console/dmesg output when using eepro100, please post it here.
> 
> If someone with CVS access has time, please enable the RX_ALIGN
> code for __hppa__ as well. I have other changes outstanding (cpqfc)
> that I want to finished up and committed first.
> 
> grant
> 

Re: [parisc-linux] PCI Intel EtherExpressPro100 strangeness on C200 machine.

[B. Douglas Hilton]

Ok, I'm back from camp ( and work ). Here's what I did today:

(a) Installed new coin battery on motherboard
(b) Switched EtherPro100 card to 5V/32bit PCI slot

None of this brought back my motherboard's original
ethernet devices. I wish I could figure out what happened,
but I know that the never worked again after plugging a
HCRX-24Z card into the GSC bus. I got one error somewhere
that said something like

"... Something really bad has happened ..." but it never
re-appeared, and neither did the tulip or LASI ether devices.

Ok, through methodical emperical experimentation I have found
that the command:

"# ping -s 157 servername"

Will succeed. However,

"# ping -s 158 servername"

Will fail.


I have kernel 2.1.18, and will try 2.4.19 but I have to burn
a cd to get it on the machine so I have procrastinated. I will
give it a shot tonight, apply Andreas's patch and recompile.

About the last thing in the world I want to do is buy a
tape drive just to reload my firmware. Maybe one of you wizards
could cook up a way to flash it from linux like is done on
a Netwinder?

Later!
- Doug

Re: [parisc-linux] PCI Intel EtherExpressPro100 strangeness on C200 machine.

[Grant Grundler]

"B. Douglas Hilton" wrote:
> None of this brought back my motherboard's original
> ethernet devices. I wish I could figure out what happened,
> but I know that the never worked again after plugging a
> HCRX-24Z card into the GSC bus.

Sounds like static or something fried the GSC devices on that bus.

> "... Something really bad has happened ..." but it never
> re-appeared, and neither did the tulip or LASI ether devices.

ouch.

...
> About the last thing in the world I want to do is buy a
> tape drive just to reload my firmware. Maybe one of you wizards
> could cook up a way to flash it from linux like is done on
> a Netwinder?

If you can ressurrect built-in LAN or find an add-on Tulip card,
you could netboot the firmware update (it's a LIF image).

grant

Re: [parisc-linux] PCI Intel EtherExpressPro100 strangeness on C200 machine.

[Michael S.Zick]

On Monday 19 August 2002 06:58 pm, Grant Grundler wrote:
> "B. Douglas Hilton" wrote:
> ...
>
> > About the last thing in the world I want to do is buy a
> > tape drive just to reload my firmware. Maybe one of you wizards
> > could cook up a way to flash it from linux like is done on
> > a Netwinder?
>
> If you can ressurrect built-in LAN or find an add-on Tulip card,
> you could netboot the firmware update (it's a LIF image).
>
> grant
Perhaps that old type of install, build SCSI disk on different machine, 
physically move disk ot C200.

Mike

Re: [parisc-linux] PCI Intel EtherExpressPro100 strangeness on C200 machine.

[Matt Taggart]

Michael S. Zick writes...

> On Monday 19 August 2002 06:58 pm, Grant Grundler wrote:
> > "B. Douglas Hilton" wrote:
> > ...
> >
> > > About the last thing in the world I want to do is buy a
> > > tape drive just to reload my firmware. Maybe one of you wizards
> > > could cook up a way to flash it from linux like is done on
> > > a Netwinder?
> >
> > If you can ressurrect built-in LAN or find an add-on Tulip card,
> > you could netboot the firmware update (it's a LIF image).
> >
> > grant
> Perhaps that old type of install, build SCSI disk on different machine, 
> physically move disk ot C200.

Yeah or a scsi cdrom. Just use cdrecord to burn the firmware update 
lifimage straight to the disk.

-- 
Matt Taggart
taggart@fc.hp.com

Re: [parisc-linux] PCI Intel EtherExpressPro100 strangeness on C200 machine.

[B. Douglas Hilton]

Just an update, I managed to burn the firmware update
to cdrom, boot it, and have updated my firmware to
the latest (6.3) for this machine. It did not fix
the onboard ethernet devices, however :-(


Now I have managed to get the source for
linux-2.4.19-pa3 onto the machine, made the
small patch on line 47 of eepro100.c, and
it is busily compiling away. Will post results
later.

- Doug

Re: [parisc-linux] PCI Intel EtherExpressPro100 strangeness on C200 machine.

[B. Douglas Hilton]

Victory! The 2.4.19-pa3 kernel was the charm!

PCI IntelEtherExpressPro100 now working on C200!

I did add the " || defined(__hppa__)"
on line 47 of eepro100.c

Thanks very much to everybody for all the help,
this box has a new lease on life now!

Yaay!



B. Douglas Hilton wrote:
> Just an update, I managed to burn the firmware update
> to cdrom, boot it, and have updated my firmware to
> the latest (6.3) for this machine. It did not fix
> the onboard ethernet devices, however :-(
> 
> 
> Now I have managed to get the source for
> linux-2.4.19-pa3 onto the machine, made the
> small patch on line 47 of eepro100.c, and
> it is busily compiling away. Will post results
> later.
> 
> - Doug

Re: [parisc-linux] PCI Intel EtherExpressPro100 strangeness on C200 machine.

[Grant Grundler]

Andreas Seltenreich wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> just append " || defined(__hppa__)" to line 47 of drivers/net/eepro100.c
> I got mine working that way.

Sorry - I just noticed that eepro100 for 2.4.19 is substantially
different from 2.4.18. My previous repl was WRT 2.4.18 (RX_ALIGN).

BTW, rx_copybreak is a module param and there must be some way
of passing that in as a boot param too.

grant

Re: [parisc-linux] PCI Intel EtherExpressPro100 strangeness on C200 machine.

[Harri Haataja]

On Mon, Aug 19, 2002 at 06:18:06PM -0600, Grant Grundler wrote:
> Andreas Seltenreich wrote:
> > just append " || defined(__hppa__)" to line 47 of
> > drivers/net/eepro100.c I got mine working that way.
> Sorry - I just noticed that eepro100 for 2.4.19 is substantially
> different from 2.4.18. My previous repl was WRT 2.4.18 (RX_ALIGN).
> BTW, rx_copybreak is a module param and there must be some way of
> passing that in as a boot param too.

All along I wondered why people would quote line numbers instead of code
bits (and linenumbers).

Re: [parisc-linux] PCI Intel EtherExpressPro100 strangeness on C200 machine.

[Andreas Seltenreich]

* Harri Haataja <harri.haataja@cs.helsinki.fi> [2002-08-20 10:24]:
> All along I wondered why people would quote line numbers instead of code
> bits (and linenumbers).

Didn't you notice the attachment?

I guess I should put patches inline next time...

Re: [parisc-linux] PCI Intel EtherExpressPro100 strangeness on C200 machine.

[Grant Grundler]

Andreas Seltenreich wrote:
> just append " || defined(__hppa__)" to line 47 of drivers/net/eepro100.c
> I got mine working that way.

For some definition of "working".
That #ifdef "forces" the RX copy *most* of the time.
If the dev_alloc_skb() call fails , the "broken" code path is taken anyway.

The code needs to differentiate architectures that *could* (but it's not
efficient) avoid the copy from architectures that *must* copy.

Patch below assumes the archs listed in the ifdef *must* copy.
If the dev_alloc_skb() fails, we drop the packet and update stats.
Not sure if I'm doing the right thing in the failure case though...

grant


Index: drivers/net/eepro100.c
===================================================================
RCS file: /var/cvs/linux/drivers/net/eepro100.c,v
retrieving revision 1.17
diff -u -p -r1.17 eepro100.c
--- drivers/net/eepro100.c	4 Aug 2002 22:58:29 -0000	1.17
+++ drivers/net/eepro100.c	26 Aug 2002 17:25:58 -0000
@@ -1,4 +1,3 @@
-/* drivers/net/eepro100.c: An Intel i82557-559 Ethernet driver for Linux. */
 /*
    NOTICE: For use with late 2.3 kernels only.
    May not compile for kernels 2.3.43-47.
@@ -43,11 +42,13 @@ static int rxdmacount /* = 0 */;
 
 /* Set the copy breakpoint for the copy-only-tiny-buffer Rx method.
    Lower values use more memory, but are faster. */
+static int rx_copybreak = 200;
+
 #if defined(__alpha__) || defined(__sparc__) || defined(__mips__) || \
-    defined(__arm__)
-static int rx_copybreak = 1518;
+    defined(__arm__) || defined(__hppa__)
+#define RX_COPY(x)		1
 #else
-static int rx_copybreak = 200;
+#define RX_COPY(x) (x < rx_copybreak)
 #endif
 
 /* Maximum events (Rx packets, etc.) to handle at each interrupt. */
@@ -1760,10 +1761,17 @@ speedo_rx(struct net_device *dev)
 		} else {
 			struct sk_buff *skb;
 
-			/* Check if the packet is long enough to just accept without
-			   copying to a properly sized skbuff. */
-			if (pkt_len < rx_copybreak
-				&& (skb = dev_alloc_skb(pkt_len + 2)) != 0) {
+			/* Check if the packet is long enough to just accept
+			 * without copying to a properly sized skbuff.
+			 */
+			if (RX_COPY(pkt_len)) {
+				skb = dev_alloc_skb(pkt_len + 2);
+				if (!skb) {
+					printk(KERN_ERR "%s: dropping packet,"
+						"no user space buffer!",
+						status);
+					goto update_stats;
+				}
 				skb->dev = dev;
 				skb_reserve(skb, 2);	/* Align IP on 16 byte boundaries */
 				/* 'skb_put()' points to the start of sk_buff data area. */
@@ -1797,6 +1805,7 @@ speedo_rx(struct net_device *dev)
 			sp->stats.rx_packets++;
 			sp->stats.rx_bytes += pkt_len;
 		}
+update_stats:
 		entry = (++sp->cur_rx) % RX_RING_SIZE;
 		sp->rx_ring_state &= ~RrPostponed;
 		/* Refill the recently taken buffers.

Re: [parisc-linux] PCI Intel EtherExpressPro100 strangeness on C200 machine.

[Grant Grundler]

Andreas Seltenreich wrote:
> just append " || defined(__hppa__)" to line 47 of drivers/net/eepro100.c
> I got mine working that way.

Andreas,
I've just committed this change to 2.4.19-pa8.
Works on my c3000 too.

I wasn't real happy with this method of disabling something we
know doesn't work. The compiler can't optimize it away.
The alternative I was playing with is at
	ftp://ftp.parisc-linux.org/patches/eepro100-rxcopy.diff

but I'm not comfortable committing that since I don't know if
other arches *can't* support it or just prefer it be disabled.

thanks,
grant

[parisc-linux] Opinions on desktop environments

[Derek Engelhaupt]

Well, got KDE to work, but it just seems slow even with my 1.6MB of RAM
and 2GB of swap on my C180.  I guess my questions would be what would
be an alternative that might run faster and/or be better overall than
KDE?  Gnome?  I guess I'm looking for what you guys think is the best
desktop environment to run.  Thanks.

derek


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

Re: [parisc-linux] Opinions on desktop environments

[Alan Cox]

On Sat, 2002-09-07 at 01:58, Derek Engelhaupt wrote:
> Well, got KDE to work, but it just seems slow even with my 16MB of RAM
> and 2GB of swap on my C180.  I guess my questions would be what would
> be an alternative that might run faster and/or be better overall than
> KDE?  Gnome?  I guess I'm looking for what you guys think is the best
> desktop environment to run.  Thanks.

17Mb is pushing it. KDE/GNOME are about the same size. xfce/rox need a
lot less

Re: [parisc-linux] Opinions on desktop environments

[alaskan]

On 07 Sep 2002 02:43:28 +0100, you wrote:

>On Sat, 2002-09-07 at 01:58, Derek Engelhaupt wrote:
>> Well, got KDE to work, but it just seems slow even with my 16MB of RAM
>> and 2GB of swap on my C180.  I guess my questions would be what would
>> be an alternative that might run faster and/or be better overall than
>> KDE?  Gnome?  I guess I'm looking for what you guys think is the best
>> desktop environment to run.  Thanks.
>
>17Mb is pushing it. KDE/GNOME are about the same size. xfce/rox need a
>lot less
>
>_______________________________________________
>parisc-linux mailing list
>parisc-linux@lists.parisc-linux.org
>http://lists.parisc-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/parisc-linux

Nothing like applying a little hardware to cure speed demons.

I would suggest more memory, at least 32MB and even 64MB and or a
faster hard disk drive (: 10k rpm :) the latter has sped my 712/60 to
twice the normal performance when using a GUI.

Re: [parisc-linux] Opinions on desktop environments

[B. Douglas Hilton]

Derek Engelhaupt wrote:
> Well, got KDE to work, but it just seems slow even with my 1.6MB of RAM
> and 2GB of swap on my C180.  I guess my questions would be what would
> be an alternative that might run faster and/or be better overall than
> KDE?  Gnome?  I guess I'm looking for what you guys think is the best
> desktop environment to run.  Thanks.
> 
> derek


Hehe... you should try running a 715 or 712! The C-Class machines positively
scream! I agree though, KDE is somewhat sluggish on my C200, but really not
too bad, its usable. I've heard rumors that someday the hppa c-library could
be optimized to run _much_ faster but its still a baby as far as linux is
concerned - I'm just tickled that it even works... I wanted another non-x86
machine (also have a Netwinder), but SGI's are pretty exotic (though tempting),
Alpha's seem super cool but are somewhat expensive and often in bad disrepair,
and Sun machines are either too expensive or too old. The hppa boxes provided
a nice economy and are very much contenders with any of the aforementioned
architectures. In its day a C200 running HP/UX was supposedly able to smoke
a 600MHz Alpha! Obviously there is a lot of optimization still to do...

I started off with a 715/80, got Woody running good on it, played with it for
almost a year, then sold it on Ebay for a small profit (Debian sells!) and
rolled my dough into the C200. I'm rather happy with its performance,
although it doesn't hold a candle to my super dual pentium-II 450 monster
box, still its a cool and useful machine, and very nice for making sure
that your app is portable, compiling your own hppa debs, etc. I don't run
mine 24/7 because it has pretty high power consumption, so the Netwinder
is my little server machine -> http://www.gyrodynamic.net

Well, I sent you a private email with my suggestions about E, but now that
I think about it, BlackBox isn't too bad with 8bpp color. Assuming that
somebody has fixed "update-menus" really any Debian window manager should
work with KDE, Gnome, and other X apps. The Debian menus should provide
access to all the installed packages which is all you really need.

BTW, regarding "update-menus" - the last time I tried it on hppa it worked
as root but segfaulted as a normal user.



- Doug

Re: [parisc-linux] Opinions on desktop environments

[Derek Engelhaupt]

whoops...meant to say 1.6GB.....;)

sorry...

--- "B. Douglas Hilton" <bdhilton@charter.net> wrote:
> Derek Engelhaupt wrote:
> > Well, got KDE to work, but it just seems slow even with my 1.6MB of
> RAM
> > and 2GB of swap on my C180.  I guess my questions would be what
> would
> > be an alternative that might run faster and/or be better overall
> than
> > KDE?  Gnome?  I guess I'm looking for what you guys think is the
> best
> > desktop environment to run.  Thanks.
> > 
> > derek
> 
> 
> Hehe... you should try running a 715 or 712! The C-Class machines
> positively
> scream! I agree though, KDE is somewhat sluggish on my C200, but
> really not
> too bad, its usable. I've heard rumors that someday the hppa
> c-library could
> be optimized to run _much_ faster but its still a baby as far as
> linux is
> concerned - I'm just tickled that it even works... I wanted another
> non-x86
> machine (also have a Netwinder), but SGI's are pretty exotic (though
> tempting),
> Alpha's seem super cool but are somewhat expensive and often in bad
> disrepair,
> and Sun machines are either too expensive or too old. The hppa boxes
> provided
> a nice economy and are very much contenders with any of the
> aforementioned
> architectures. In its day a C200 running HP/UX was supposedly able to
> smoke
> a 600MHz Alpha! Obviously there is a lot of optimization still to
> do...
> 
> I started off with a 715/80, got Woody running good on it, played
> with it for
> almost a year, then sold it on Ebay for a small profit (Debian
> sells!) and
> rolled my dough into the C200. I'm rather happy with its performance,
> although it doesn't hold a candle to my super dual pentium-II 450
> monster
> box, still its a cool and useful machine, and very nice for making
> sure
> that your app is portable, compiling your own hppa debs, etc. I don't
> run
> mine 24/7 because it has pretty high power consumption, so the
> Netwinder
> is my little server machine -> http://www.gyrodynamic.net
> 
> Well, I sent you a private email with my suggestions about E, but now
> that
> I think about it, BlackBox isn't too bad with 8bpp color. Assuming
> that
> somebody has fixed "update-menus" really any Debian window manager
> should
> work with KDE, Gnome, and other X apps. The Debian menus should
> provide
> access to all the installed packages which is all you really need.
> 
> BTW, regarding "update-menus" - the last time I tried it on hppa it
> worked
> as root but segfaulted as a normal user.
> 
> 
> 
> - Doug
> 
> _______________________________________________
> parisc-linux mailing list
> parisc-linux@lists.parisc-linux.org
> http://lists.parisc-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/parisc-linux


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Re: [parisc-linux] Opinions on desktop environments

[B. Douglas Hilton]

Derek Engelhaupt wrote:
> Well, got KDE to work, but it just seems slow even with my 1.6MB of RAM
> and 2GB of swap on my C180.  I guess my questions would be what would
> be an alternative that might run faster and/or be better overall than
> KDE?  Gnome?  I guess I'm looking for what you guys think is the best
> desktop environment to run.  Thanks.
> 
> derek


Hehe... you should try running a 715 or 712! The C-Class machines positively
scream! I agree though, KDE is somewhat sluggish on my C200, but really not
too bad, its usable. I've heard rumors that someday the hppa c-library could
be optimized to run _much_ faster but its still a baby as far as linux is
concerned - I'm just tickled that it even works... I wanted another non-x86
machine (also have a Netwinder), but SGI's are pretty exotic (though tempting),
Alpha's seem super cool but are somewhat expensive and often in bad disrepair,
and Sun machines are either too expensive or too old. The hppa boxes provided
a nice economy and are very much contenders with any of the aforementioned
architectures. In its day a C200 running HP/UX was supposedly able to smoke
a 600MHz Alpha! Obviously there is a lot of optimization still to do...

I started off with a 715/80, got Woody running good on it, played with it for
almost a year, then sold it on Ebay for a small profit (Debian sells!) and
rolled my dough into the C200. I'm rather happy with its performance,
although it doesn't hold a candle to my super dual pentium-II 450 monster
box, still its a cool and useful machine, and very nice for making sure
that your app is portable, compiling your own hppa debs, etc. I don't run
mine 24/7 because it has pretty high power consumption, so the Netwinder
is my little server machine -> http://www.gyrodynamic.net

Well, I sent you a private email with my suggestions about E, but now that
I think about it, BlackBox isn't too bad with 8bpp color. Assuming that
somebody has fixed "update-menus" really any Debian window manager should
work with KDE, Gnome, and other X apps. The Debian menus should provide
access to all the installed packages which is all you really need.

BTW, regarding "update-menus" - the last time I tried it on hppa it worked
as root but segfaulted as a normal user.



- Doug