Xen 3.0 for OpenBSD

Xen 3.0 for OpenBSD

[Dave Feustel]

Anyone working on porting Xen 3.0 to OpenBSD?

Thanks,
Dave Feustel
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Re: Xen 3.0 for OpenBSD

[Johnny Lam]

Dave Feustel wrote:
> Anyone working on porting Xen 3.0 to OpenBSD?

I think you mean porting OpenBSD to Xen so you can run OpenBSD as a 
guest domain (domU).  NetBSD has been ported to Xen 2.0, so you can 
probably look there as a starting point.

	Cheers,

	-- Johnny Lam <jlam@NetBSD.org>

Re: Xen 3.0 for OpenBSD

[Dave Feustel]

On Tuesday 11 October 2005 15:22, Johnny Lam wrote:
> Dave Feustel wrote:
> > Anyone working on porting Xen 3.0 to OpenBSD?
> 
> I think you mean porting OpenBSD to Xen so you can run OpenBSD as a 
> guest domain (domU).

Actually, what I would like to do is replace linux in xen/linux with OpenBSD.
However, that may be too much work. I do like having OpenBSD as my interface
to the internet.

> NetBSD has been ported to Xen 2.0, so you can  
> probably look there as a starting point.
> 
> 	Cheers,
> 
> 	-- Johnny Lam <jlam@NetBSD.org>
> 

-- 
Tired of having to defend against Malware?
You know: trojans, viruses, SPYWARE, ADWARE, 
KEYLOGGERS, rootkits, worms and popups.
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Re: Re: Xen 3.0 for OpenBSD

[Nicholas Lee]

On 10/12/05, Dave Feustel <dfeustel@verizon.net> wrote:
> Actually, what I would like to do is replace linux in xen/linux with OpenBSD.
> However, that may be too much work. I do like having OpenBSD as my interface
> to the internet.

I don;t think the OpenBSD developers are that interested [1] at the
moment in doing this.

Probably Freebsd with pf/altq a better option on Xen at the moment. 
Its like to have a better performance profile as well:
http://lists.soekris.com/pipermail/soekris-tech/2005-October/024317.html


[1] http://www.monkey.org/openbsd/archive2/tech/200501/msg00059.html

--
Nicholas Lee
http://stateless.geek.nz
gpg 8072 4F86 EDCD 4FC1 18EF  5BDD 07B0 9597 6D58 D70C

Re: Xen 3.0 for OpenBSD

[Johnny Lam]

Dave Feustel wrote:
> On Tuesday 11 October 2005 15:22, Johnny Lam wrote:
> 
>>Dave Feustel wrote:
>>
>>>Anyone working on porting Xen 3.0 to OpenBSD?
>>
>>I think you mean porting OpenBSD to Xen so you can run OpenBSD as a 
>>guest domain (domU).
> 
> 
> Actually, what I would like to do is replace linux in xen/linux with OpenBSD.
> However, that may be too much work. I do like having OpenBSD as my interface
> to the internet.

NetBSD can also be used as the privileged domain (dom0) running under 
Xen 2.0 (though not yet under Xen 3.0), so the NetBSD sources are still 
a useful starting point for you if you're planning to pursue porting 
OpenBSD to Xen to run as a privileged domain.

However, I think it's probably more useful to start by porting OpenBSD 
as a guest domain -- you're going to want to run all your services in 
guest domains anyway to take advantage of the security-through-isolation 
that Xen provides.  In my own setups, the only critical thing that dom0 
does is keeping the clock accurate for the guest domains, though it 
might make sense to also provide, e.g. DNS or DHCP services in dom0 as well.

	Cheers,

	-- Johnny Lam <jlam@NetBSD.org>

Re: Re: Xen 3.0 for OpenBSD

[Dave Feustel]

On Tuesday 11 October 2005 16:26, Nicholas Lee wrote:
> On 10/12/05, Dave Feustel <dfeustel@verizon.net> wrote:
> > Actually, what I would like to do is replace linux in xen/linux with OpenBSD.
> > However, that may be too much work. I do like having OpenBSD as my interface
> > to the internet.
> 
> I don;t think the OpenBSD developers are that interested [1] at the
> moment in doing this.

I figure if I take this path, I'm on my own, but I am starting to feel like 
maybe I could do it. But then I could be wrong too. Only way to find out
is at some point to try. I certainly will learn a lot about the guts of OpenBSD
that way. :-)
 
> Probably Freebsd with pf/altq a better option on Xen at the moment. 
> Its like to have a better performance profile as well:
> http://lists.soekris.com/pipermail/soekris-tech/2005-October/024317.html
> 
> 
> [1] http://www.monkey.org/openbsd/archive2/tech/200501/msg00059.html
> 
> --
> Nicholas Lee
> http://stateless.geek.nz
> gpg 8072 4F86 EDCD 4FC1 18EF  5BDD 07B0 9597 6D58 D70C
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-devel mailing list
> Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel
> 

-- 
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You know: trojans, viruses, SPYWARE, ADWARE, 
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Re: Re: Xen 3.0 for OpenBSD

[Nicholas Lee]

On 10/12/05, Dave Feustel <dfeustel@verizon.net> wrote:
> I figure if I take this path, I'm on my own, but I am starting to feel like
> maybe I could do it. But then I could be wrong too. Only way to find out
> is at some point to try. I certainly will learn a lot about the guts of OpenBSD
> that way. :-)

Good luck. Great thing about Xen, will make it easy to test without
taking down your computer. Plus it makes it easy for other people to
try.

--
Nicholas Lee
http://stateless.geek.nz
gpg 8072 4F86 EDCD 4FC1 18EF  5BDD 07B0 9597 6D58 D70C

Re: Re: Xen 3.0 for OpenBSD

[Mark Williamson]

> On 10/12/05, Dave Feustel <dfeustel@verizon.net> wrote:
> > I figure if I take this path, I'm on my own, but I am starting to feel
> > like maybe I could do it. But then I could be wrong too. Only way to find
> > out is at some point to try. I certainly will learn a lot about the guts
> > of OpenBSD that way. :-)
>
> Good luck. Great thing about Xen, will make it easy to test without
> taking down your computer. Plus it makes it easy for other people to
> try.

Using OpenBSD should be possible under VT.  Regarding a port of OBSD to Xen, I 
don't think anybody has worked on it yet.  The code from the other BSD ports 
will be useful (due to compatible licensing).  It's not clear how much OBSD 
and NetBSD have diverged, though - the code probably won't just "slot in" 
anyhow :-(

Personally, I've observed quite a lot of hostility to Xen among OBSD community 
people, largely due to what I'd call "religious objections", which is a 
shame.  None of these people are necessarily "important" though, they're just 
the ones I've heard something definitive from.  Although this is probably 
just a vocal minority, there certainly don't seem to be the positive vibes 
that you see in some other OS communities (like the other BSDs) - I guess if 
someone stepped up with (at least an offer of) some code, one might get a 
more concrete reaction from developers.

Cheers,
Mark

Re: Re: Xen 3.0 for OpenBSD

[Dave Feustel]

On Tuesday 25 October 2005 09:44, Mark Williamson wrote:
> > On 10/12/05, Dave Feustel <dfeustel@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > I figure if I take this path, I'm on my own, but I am starting to feel
> > > like maybe I could do it. But then I could be wrong too. Only way to find
> > > out is at some point to try. I certainly will learn a lot about the guts
> > > of OpenBSD that way. :-)
> >
> > Good luck. Great thing about Xen, will make it easy to test without
> > taking down your computer. Plus it makes it easy for other people to
> > try.
> 
> Using OpenBSD should be possible under VT. 

Probably true for those with new Intel VT-enabled processors. I will be 
getting an  AMD processor which has Pacifica, which is not identical in 
features to  Intel's VT. So I have doubts about running OpenBSD in virtual 
mode on  AMD64-Pacifica unless specific support for Pacifica is present in Xen.

> Regarding a port of OBSD to Xen, I  
> don't think anybody has worked on it yet.  The code from the other BSD ports 
> will be useful (due to compatible licensing).  It's not clear how much OBSD 
> and NetBSD have diverged, though - the code probably won't just "slot in" 
> anyhow :-(

I expect to run an *unmodified* OpenBSD using Xen's hardware support for 
virtualization via Pacifica. I hope I am not living in airborne castles!
> 
> Personally, I've observed quite a lot of hostility to Xen among OBSD community 
> people, largely due to what I'd call "religious objections", which is a 
> shame.

You are not alone! And not just about Xen either! I ignore it.

I think the OpenBSD developers are focused upon server enhancements.
I think they will get much more interested in Xen if they see a use for
it in OpenBSD server operations.

> None of these people are necessarily "important" though, they're just  
> the ones I've heard something definitive from.  Although this is probably 
> just a vocal minority, there certainly don't seem to be the positive vibes 
> that you see in some other OS communities (like the other BSDs) - I guess if 
> someone stepped up with (at least an offer of) some code, one might get a 
> more concrete reaction from developers.

I will have a very strong incentive to get OpenBSD running on Xen when I
finally have both a Pacifica-enabled AMD64 system and a copy of the source
tree of Xen with Pacifica support.
 
Dave Feustel
> Cheers,
> Mark
> 

-- 
Tired of having to defend against Malware?
You know: trojans, viruses, SPYWARE, ADWARE, 
KEYLOGGERS, rootkits, worms and popups.
Then Switch to OpenBSD with a KDE desktop!!!

Re: Re: Xen 3.0 for OpenBSD

[Mark Williamson]

> > Using OpenBSD should be possible under VT.
>
> Probably true for those with new Intel VT-enabled processors. I will be
> getting an  AMD processor which has Pacifica, which is not identical in
> features to  Intel's VT. So I have doubts about running OpenBSD in virtual
> mode on  AMD64-Pacifica unless specific support for Pacifica is present in
> Xen.

There'll be Pacifica support in Xen, it's just not fully baked yet.

> I expect to run an *unmodified* OpenBSD using Xen's hardware support for
> virtualization via Pacifica. I hope I am not living in airborne castles!

Unmodified BSD / Linux / Windows should run fine under hardware-supported full 
virtualisation.

> > Personally, I've observed quite a lot of hostility to Xen among OBSD
> > community people, largely due to what I'd call "religious objections",
> > which is a shame.
>
> You are not alone! And not just about Xen either! I ignore it.

Heheh :-)

> I think the OpenBSD developers are focused upon server enhancements.
> I think they will get much more interested in Xen if they see a use for
> it in OpenBSD server operations.

Yup.  We'll see what happens...  People running an OS under full 
virtualisation helps make the case for adopting paravirtualisation support.

Cheers,
Mark

> > None of these people are necessarily "important" though, they're just
> > the ones I've heard something definitive from.  Although this is probably
> > just a vocal minority, there certainly don't seem to be the positive
> > vibes that you see in some other OS communities (like the other BSDs) - I
> > guess if someone stepped up with (at least an offer of) some code, one
> > might get a more concrete reaction from developers.
>
> I will have a very strong incentive to get OpenBSD running on Xen when I
> finally have both a Pacifica-enabled AMD64 system and a copy of the source
> tree of Xen with Pacifica support.
>
> Dave Feustel
>
> > Cheers,
> > Mark