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From: Jeff Garzik <jeff@garzik.org>
To: Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>
Cc: Nick Piggin <npiggin@suse.de>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux Memory Management List <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC] fsblock
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 07:10:27 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <46863A23.2010001@garzik.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20070630104244.GC24123@infradead.org>

Christoph Hellwig wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 23, 2007 at 11:07:54PM -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote:
>>> - In line with the above item, filesystem block allocation is performed
>>>  before a page is dirtied. In the buffer layer, mmap writes can dirty a
>>>  page with no backing blocks which is a problem if the filesystem is
>>>  ENOSPC (patches exist for buffer.c for this).
>> This raises an eyebrow...  The handling of ENOSPC prior to mmap write is 
>> more an ABI behavior, so I don't see how this can be fixed with internal 
>> changes, yet without changing behavior currently exported to userland 
>> (and thus affecting code based on such assumptions).

> Not really, the current behaviour is a bug.  And it's not actually buffer
> layer specific - XFS now has a fix for that bug and it's generic enough
> that everyone could use it.

I'm not sure I follow.  If you require block allocation at mmap(2) time, 
rather than when a page is actually dirtied, you are denying userspace 
the ability to do sparse files with mmap.

A quick Google readily turns up people who have built upon the 
mmap-sparse-file assumption, and I don't think we want to break those 
assumptions as a "bug fix."

Where is the bug?

	Jeff



WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Jeff Garzik <jeff@garzik.org>
To: Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>
Cc: Nick Piggin <npiggin@suse.de>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux Memory Management List <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC] fsblock
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 07:10:27 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <46863A23.2010001@garzik.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20070630104244.GC24123@infradead.org>

Christoph Hellwig wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 23, 2007 at 11:07:54PM -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote:
>>> - In line with the above item, filesystem block allocation is performed
>>>  before a page is dirtied. In the buffer layer, mmap writes can dirty a
>>>  page with no backing blocks which is a problem if the filesystem is
>>>  ENOSPC (patches exist for buffer.c for this).
>> This raises an eyebrow...  The handling of ENOSPC prior to mmap write is 
>> more an ABI behavior, so I don't see how this can be fixed with internal 
>> changes, yet without changing behavior currently exported to userland 
>> (and thus affecting code based on such assumptions).

> Not really, the current behaviour is a bug.  And it's not actually buffer
> layer specific - XFS now has a fix for that bug and it's generic enough
> that everyone could use it.

I'm not sure I follow.  If you require block allocation at mmap(2) time, 
rather than when a page is actually dirtied, you are denying userspace 
the ability to do sparse files with mmap.

A quick Google readily turns up people who have built upon the 
mmap-sparse-file assumption, and I don't think we want to break those 
assumptions as a "bug fix."

Where is the bug?

	Jeff


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  reply	other threads:[~2007-06-30 11:10 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 106+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-06-24  1:45 [RFC] fsblock Nick Piggin
2007-06-24  1:45 ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-24  1:46 ` [patch 1/3] add the fsblock layer Nick Piggin
2007-06-24  1:46   ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-24 15:28   ` Andi Kleen
2007-06-24 15:28     ` Andi Kleen
2007-06-24 20:18     ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-06-24 20:18       ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-06-25  8:58       ` Andi Kleen
2007-06-25  8:58         ` Andi Kleen
2007-06-25  7:19     ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-25  7:19       ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-24 23:01   ` Neil Brown
2007-06-24 23:01     ` Neil Brown
2007-06-25  7:41     ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-25  7:41       ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-25 12:29       ` Chris Mason
2007-06-25 12:29         ` Chris Mason
2007-06-26  2:34         ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-26  2:34           ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-26  2:48           ` Neil Brown
2007-06-26  2:48             ` Neil Brown
2007-06-26  3:07             ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-26  3:07               ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-26 12:26               ` Chris Mason
2007-06-26 12:26                 ` Chris Mason
2007-06-30 10:40                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-06-30 10:40                   ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-06-30 10:40           ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-06-30 10:40             ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-06-25 13:19   ` Chris Mason
2007-06-25 13:19     ` Chris Mason
2007-06-26  2:42     ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-26  2:42       ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-24  1:46 ` [patch 2/3] block_dev: convert to fsblock Nick Piggin
2007-06-24  1:46   ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-24  1:47 ` [patch 3/3] minix: " Nick Piggin
2007-06-24  1:47   ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-24  1:53 ` [RFC] fsblock Nick Piggin
2007-06-24  1:53   ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-24  3:07 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-06-24  3:07   ` Jeff Garzik
2007-06-24  3:47   ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-24  3:47     ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-24 13:51     ` Chris Mason
2007-06-24 13:51       ` Chris Mason
2007-06-25  6:58       ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-25  6:58         ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-25 12:25         ` Chris Mason
2007-06-25 12:25           ` Chris Mason
2007-06-30 10:44           ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-06-30 10:44             ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-06-30 10:42   ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-06-30 10:42     ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-06-30 11:10     ` Jeff Garzik [this message]
2007-06-30 11:10       ` Jeff Garzik
2007-06-30 11:13       ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-06-30 11:13         ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-06-24  4:19 ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-06-24  4:19   ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-06-24 14:16 ` Andi Kleen
2007-06-24 14:16   ` Andi Kleen
2007-06-25  7:16   ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-25  7:16     ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-26  3:06 ` David Chinner
2007-06-26  3:06   ` David Chinner
2007-06-26  3:55   ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-26  3:55     ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-26  9:23     ` David Chinner
2007-06-26  9:23       ` David Chinner
2007-06-26 11:14       ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-26 11:14         ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-27 12:39         ` Kyle Moffett
2007-06-27 12:39           ` Kyle Moffett
2007-06-26 12:34       ` Chris Mason
2007-06-26 12:34         ` Chris Mason
2007-06-27  5:32         ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-27  5:32           ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-27  6:05           ` David Chinner
2007-06-27  6:05             ` David Chinner
2007-06-27 11:50           ` Chris Mason
2007-06-27 11:50             ` Chris Mason
2007-06-27 15:18             ` Anton Altaparmakov
2007-06-27 15:18               ` Anton Altaparmakov
2007-06-27 22:35             ` David Chinner
2007-06-27 22:35               ` David Chinner
2007-06-28  2:44               ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-28  2:44                 ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-28 12:20                 ` Chris Mason
2007-06-28 12:20                   ` Chris Mason
2007-06-29  2:08                   ` David Chinner
2007-06-29  2:08                     ` David Chinner
2007-06-29  2:33                   ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-29  2:33                     ` Nick Piggin
2007-06-30 11:05 ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-06-30 11:05   ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-07-09 17:14 ` Christoph Lameter
2007-07-09 17:14   ` Christoph Lameter
2007-07-10  0:54   ` Nick Piggin
2007-07-10  0:54     ` Nick Piggin
2007-07-10  0:59     ` Christoph Lameter
2007-07-10  0:59       ` Christoph Lameter
2007-07-10  1:07       ` Nick Piggin
2007-07-10  1:07         ` Nick Piggin
2007-07-10  1:37       ` Dave McCracken
2007-07-10  1:37         ` Dave McCracken

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