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From: "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>
To: Jeremy Fitzhardinge <jeremy@goop.org>
Cc: the arch/x86 maintainers <x86@kernel.org>,
	"kvm@vger.kernel.org" <kvm@vger.kernel.org>,
	Daniel Hecht <dhecht@vmware.com>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org"
	<virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org>,
	"avi@redhat.com" <avi@redhat.com>,
	"akataria@vmware.com" <akataria@vmware.com>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>
Subject: Re: [RFC] CPUID usage for interaction between Hypervisors	and	Linux.
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 16:45:34 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <48EBF49E.9030803@zytor.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <48EBF396.8000502@goop.org>

Jeremy Fitzhardinge wrote:
>>
>> The big difference here is that you could create a VM at runtime (by 
>> combining the existing interfaces) that did not exist before (or was 
>> not tested before). For example, a hypervisor could show hyper-v, 
>> osx-v (if any), linux-v, etc., and a guest could create a VM with 
>> hyper-v MMU, osx-v interrupt handling, Linux-v timer, etc. And such 
>> combinations/variations can grow exponentially.
> 
> That would be crazy.
> 

Not necessarily, although the example above is extreme.  Redundant 
interfaces is the norm in an evolving platform.

>> Or are you suggesting that multiple interfaces be _available_ to 
>> guests at runtime but the guest chooses one of them?
> 
> Right, that's what I've been suggesting.    I think hypervisors should 
> be able to offer multiple ABIs to guests, but a guest has to commit to 
> using one exclusively (ie, once they start to use one then the others 
> turn themselves off, kill the domain, etc).

Not inherently.  Of course, there may be interfaces which are interently 
or by policy mutually exclusive, but a hypervisor should only export the 
interfaces it wants a guest to be able to use.

This is particularly so with CPUID, which is a *data export* interface, 
it doesn't perform any action.

	-hpa

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>
To: Jeremy Fitzhardinge <jeremy@goop.org>
Cc: "Nakajima, Jun" <jun.nakajima@intel.com>,
	"akataria@vmware.com" <akataria@vmware.com>,
	"avi@redhat.com" <avi@redhat.com>,
	Rusty Russell <rusty@rustcorp.com.au>,
	Gerd Hoffmann <kraxel@redhat.com>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>,
	the arch/x86 maintainers <x86@kernel.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Daniel Hecht <dhecht@vmware.com>, Zach Amsden <zach@vmware.com>,
	"virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org" 
	<virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org>,
	"kvm@vger.kernel.org" <kvm@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC] CPUID usage for interaction between Hypervisors	and	Linux.
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 16:45:34 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <48EBF49E.9030803@zytor.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <48EBF396.8000502@goop.org>

Jeremy Fitzhardinge wrote:
>>
>> The big difference here is that you could create a VM at runtime (by 
>> combining the existing interfaces) that did not exist before (or was 
>> not tested before). For example, a hypervisor could show hyper-v, 
>> osx-v (if any), linux-v, etc., and a guest could create a VM with 
>> hyper-v MMU, osx-v interrupt handling, Linux-v timer, etc. And such 
>> combinations/variations can grow exponentially.
> 
> That would be crazy.
> 

Not necessarily, although the example above is extreme.  Redundant 
interfaces is the norm in an evolving platform.

>> Or are you suggesting that multiple interfaces be _available_ to 
>> guests at runtime but the guest chooses one of them?
> 
> Right, that's what I've been suggesting.    I think hypervisors should 
> be able to offer multiple ABIs to guests, but a guest has to commit to 
> using one exclusively (ie, once they start to use one then the others 
> turn themselves off, kill the domain, etc).

Not inherently.  Of course, there may be interfaces which are interently 
or by policy mutually exclusive, but a hypervisor should only export the 
interfaces it wants a guest to be able to use.

This is particularly so with CPUID, which is a *data export* interface, 
it doesn't perform any action.

	-hpa

  reply	other threads:[~2008-10-07 23:45 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 106+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-10-01 17:14 [RFC] CPUID usage for interaction between Hypervisors and Linux Alok Kataria
2008-10-01 17:14 ` Alok Kataria
2008-10-01 17:21 ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-01 17:33   ` Alok Kataria
2008-10-01 17:45     ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-01 17:45     ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-01 18:06     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2008-10-01 18:06     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2008-10-01 21:05       ` Alok Kataria
2008-10-01 22:46         ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-01 22:46         ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-02  1:11           ` Nakajima, Jun
2008-10-02  1:11             ` Nakajima, Jun
2008-10-02  1:24             ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-02  1:24               ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-03 22:33               ` Nakajima, Jun
2008-10-03 22:33               ` Nakajima, Jun
2008-10-03 22:33                 ` Nakajima, Jun
2008-10-03 23:30                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-03 23:30                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-04  0:27                   ` Nakajima, Jun
2008-10-04  0:27                     ` Nakajima, Jun
2008-10-04  0:35                     ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-04  0:35                     ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-07 22:30                       ` Nakajima, Jun
2008-10-07 22:30                       ` Nakajima, Jun
2008-10-07 22:30                         ` Nakajima, Jun
2008-10-07 22:37                         ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-07 22:37                         ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-07 23:45                           ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2008-10-08  1:09                             ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-08  1:09                               ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-07 23:45                           ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2008-10-07 23:41                         ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2008-10-07 23:45                           ` H. Peter Anvin [this message]
2008-10-07 23:45                             ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-08  0:40                             ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2008-10-08  0:40                             ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2008-10-07 23:41                         ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2008-10-04  8:53                     ` Avi Kivity
2008-10-04  8:53                     ` Avi Kivity
2008-10-04  0:27                   ` Nakajima, Jun
2008-10-02  1:11           ` Nakajima, Jun
2008-10-01 21:05       ` Alok Kataria
2008-10-01 17:33   ` Alok Kataria
2008-10-01 17:21 ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-01 17:47 ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-01 17:47 ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-01 18:04 ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2008-10-01 18:07   ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-01 18:07   ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-01 18:12     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2008-10-01 18:12     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2008-10-01 18:16       ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-01 18:16       ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-01 18:36         ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2008-10-01 18:36         ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2008-10-01 18:43           ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-01 19:56             ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2008-10-01 19:56             ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2008-10-01 18:43           ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-01 20:38           ` Chris Wright
2008-10-01 22:38             ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-01 22:38             ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-01 20:38           ` Chris Wright
2008-10-01 21:01   ` Alok Kataria
2008-10-01 21:08     ` Anthony Liguori
2008-10-01 21:08     ` Anthony Liguori
2008-10-01 21:15       ` Chris Wright
2008-10-01 21:15       ` Chris Wright
2008-10-01 21:31         ` Anthony Liguori
2008-10-01 21:31         ` Anthony Liguori
2008-10-01 21:23       ` Alok Kataria
2008-10-01 21:23       ` Alok Kataria
2008-10-01 21:29         ` Anthony Liguori
2008-10-01 21:29         ` Anthony Liguori
2008-10-01 21:17     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2008-10-01 21:34       ` Anthony Liguori
2008-10-01 21:43         ` Chris Wright
2008-10-01 21:43         ` Chris Wright
2008-10-02 11:29           ` Avi Kivity
2008-10-02 11:29           ` Avi Kivity
2008-10-01 23:47         ` Zachary Amsden
2008-10-01 23:47         ` Zachary Amsden
2008-10-02  0:39           ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-02  0:57             ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-02  0:57             ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-02  1:11             ` Zachary Amsden
2008-10-02  1:21               ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-02  1:21               ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-02  1:11             ` Zachary Amsden
2008-10-02  0:39           ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-10-02  0:41           ` Anthony Liguori
2008-10-02  0:41           ` Anthony Liguori
2008-10-01 21:34       ` Anthony Liguori
2008-10-01 21:17     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2008-10-01 21:01   ` Alok Kataria
2008-10-01 18:04 ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2008-10-01 20:03   ` Anthony Liguori
2008-10-01 20:08     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2008-10-01 20:08     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2008-10-01 21:03       ` Anthony Liguori
2008-10-01 21:03       ` Anthony Liguori
2008-10-01 21:03       ` Anthony Liguori
2008-10-01 20:03   ` Anthony Liguori
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2008-10-01 17:14 Alok Kataria

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