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From: Jeremy Fitzhardinge <jeremy@goop.org>
To: Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>
Cc: Martin Schwidefsky <schwidefsky@de.ibm.com>,
	akpm@osdl.org, Nick Piggin <nickpiggin@yahoo.com.au>,
	frankeh@watson.ibm.com, virtualization@lists.osdl.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	hugh@veritas.com, Xen-devel <xen-devel@lists.xensource.com>
Subject: Re: [patch 0/6] Guest page hinting version 7.
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 13:34:37 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <49D5215D.6050503@goop.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <49D51CA9.6090601@redhat.com>

Rik van Riel wrote:
> Jeremy Fitzhardinge wrote:
>> The more complex host policy decisions of how to balance overall 
>> memory use system-wide are much in the same for both mechanisms.
> Not at all.  Page hinting is just an optimization to host swapping, where
> IO can be avoided on many of the pages that hit the end of the LRU.
>
> No decisions have to be made at all about balancing memory use
> between guests, it just happens through regular host LRU aging.

When the host pages out a page belonging to guest A, then its making a 
policy decision on how large guest A should be compared to B.  If the 
policy is a global LRU on all guest pages, then that's still a policy on 
guest sizes: the target size is a function of its working set, assuming 
that the working set is well modelled by LRU.  I imagine that if the 
guest and host are both managing their pages with an LRU-like algorithm 
you'll get some nasty interactions, which page hinting tries to alleviate.

> Automatic ballooning requires that something on the host figures
> out how much memory each guest needs and sizes the guests
> appropriately.  All the proposed policies for that which I have
> seen have some nasty corner cases or are simply very limited
> in scope.

Well, you could apply something equivalent to a global LRU: ask for more 
pages from guests who have the most unused pages.  (I'm not saying that 
its necessarily a useful policy.)

    J

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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Jeremy Fitzhardinge <jeremy@goop.org>
To: Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>
Cc: Martin Schwidefsky <schwidefsky@de.ibm.com>,
	akpm@osdl.org, Nick Piggin <nickpiggin@yahoo.com.au>,
	frankeh@watson.ibm.com, virtualization@lists.osdl.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	hugh@veritas.com, Xen-devel <xen-devel@lists.xensource.com>
Subject: Re: [patch 0/6] Guest page hinting version 7.
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 13:34:37 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <49D5215D.6050503@goop.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <49D51CA9.6090601@redhat.com>

Rik van Riel wrote:
> Jeremy Fitzhardinge wrote:
>> The more complex host policy decisions of how to balance overall 
>> memory use system-wide are much in the same for both mechanisms.
> Not at all.  Page hinting is just an optimization to host swapping, where
> IO can be avoided on many of the pages that hit the end of the LRU.
>
> No decisions have to be made at all about balancing memory use
> between guests, it just happens through regular host LRU aging.

When the host pages out a page belonging to guest A, then its making a 
policy decision on how large guest A should be compared to B.  If the 
policy is a global LRU on all guest pages, then that's still a policy on 
guest sizes: the target size is a function of its working set, assuming 
that the working set is well modelled by LRU.  I imagine that if the 
guest and host are both managing their pages with an LRU-like algorithm 
you'll get some nasty interactions, which page hinting tries to alleviate.

> Automatic ballooning requires that something on the host figures
> out how much memory each guest needs and sizes the guests
> appropriately.  All the proposed policies for that which I have
> seen have some nasty corner cases or are simply very limited
> in scope.

Well, you could apply something equivalent to a global LRU: ask for more 
pages from guests who have the most unused pages.  (I'm not saying that 
its necessarily a useful policy.)

    J

  reply	other threads:[~2009-04-02 20:34 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 105+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-03-27 15:09 [patch 0/6] Guest page hinting version 7 Martin Schwidefsky
2009-03-27 15:09 ` Martin Schwidefsky
2009-03-27 15:09 ` [patch 1/6] Guest page hinting: core + volatile page cache Martin Schwidefsky
2009-03-27 15:09   ` Martin Schwidefsky
2009-03-27 22:57   ` Rik van Riel
2009-03-27 22:57     ` Rik van Riel
2009-03-29 13:56     ` Martin Schwidefsky
2009-03-29 13:56       ` Martin Schwidefsky
2009-03-29 14:35       ` Rik van Riel
2009-03-29 14:35         ` Rik van Riel
2009-03-27 15:09 ` [patch 2/6] Guest page hinting: volatile swap cache Martin Schwidefsky
2009-03-27 15:09   ` Martin Schwidefsky
2009-04-01  2:10   ` Rik van Riel
2009-04-01  2:10     ` Rik van Riel
2009-04-01  8:13     ` Martin Schwidefsky
2009-04-01  8:13       ` Martin Schwidefsky
2009-03-27 15:09 ` [patch 3/6] Guest page hinting: mlocked pages Martin Schwidefsky
2009-03-27 15:09   ` Martin Schwidefsky
2009-04-01  2:52   ` Rik van Riel
2009-04-01  2:52     ` Rik van Riel
2009-04-01  8:13     ` Martin Schwidefsky
2009-04-01  8:13       ` Martin Schwidefsky
2009-03-27 15:09 ` [patch 4/6] Guest page hinting: writable page table entries Martin Schwidefsky
2009-03-27 15:09   ` Martin Schwidefsky
2009-04-01 13:25   ` Rik van Riel
2009-04-01 13:25     ` Rik van Riel
2009-04-01 14:36     ` Martin Schwidefsky
2009-04-01 14:36       ` Martin Schwidefsky
2009-04-01 14:45       ` Rik van Riel
2009-04-01 14:45         ` Rik van Riel
2009-03-27 15:09 ` [patch 5/6] Guest page hinting: minor fault optimization Martin Schwidefsky
2009-03-27 15:09   ` Martin Schwidefsky
2009-04-01 15:33   ` Rik van Riel
2009-04-01 15:33     ` Rik van Riel
2009-03-27 15:09 ` [patch 6/6] Guest page hinting: s390 support Martin Schwidefsky
2009-03-27 15:09   ` Martin Schwidefsky
2009-04-01 16:18   ` Rik van Riel
2009-04-01 16:18     ` Rik van Riel
2009-03-27 23:03 ` [patch 0/6] Guest page hinting version 7 Dave Hansen
2009-03-27 23:03   ` Dave Hansen
2009-03-28  0:06   ` Rik van Riel
2009-03-28  0:06     ` Rik van Riel
2009-03-29 14:20     ` Martin Schwidefsky
2009-03-29 14:20       ` Martin Schwidefsky
2009-03-29 14:38       ` Rik van Riel
2009-03-29 14:38         ` Rik van Riel
2009-03-29 14:12   ` Martin Schwidefsky
2009-03-29 14:12     ` Martin Schwidefsky
2009-03-30 15:54     ` Dave Hansen
2009-03-30 15:54       ` Dave Hansen
2009-03-30 16:34       ` Martin Schwidefsky
2009-03-30 16:34         ` Martin Schwidefsky
2009-03-30 18:37       ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-03-30 18:37         ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-03-30 18:42         ` Rik van Riel
2009-03-30 18:42           ` Rik van Riel
2009-03-30 18:59           ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-03-30 18:59             ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-03-30 20:02             ` Rik van Riel
2009-03-30 20:02               ` Rik van Riel
2009-03-30 20:35               ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-03-30 20:35                 ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-03-30 21:38                 ` Dor Laor
2009-03-30 21:38                   ` Dor Laor
2009-03-30 22:16                   ` Izik Eidus
2009-03-30 22:16                     ` Izik Eidus
2009-03-28  6:35 ` Rusty Russell
2009-03-28  6:35   ` Rusty Russell
2009-03-29 14:23   ` Martin Schwidefsky
2009-03-29 14:23     ` Martin Schwidefsky
2009-04-02 11:32     ` Nick Piggin
2009-04-02 11:32       ` Nick Piggin
2009-04-02 15:52       ` Martin Schwidefsky
2009-04-02 15:52         ` Martin Schwidefsky
2009-04-02 16:18         ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-04-02 16:18           ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-04-02 16:23         ` Nick Piggin
2009-04-02 16:23           ` Nick Piggin
2009-04-02 19:06         ` Rik van Riel
2009-04-02 19:06           ` Rik van Riel
2009-04-02 19:22           ` Nick Piggin
2009-04-02 19:22             ` Nick Piggin
2009-04-02 20:05             ` Rik van Riel
2009-04-02 20:05               ` Rik van Riel
2009-04-03  0:50               ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-04-03  0:50                 ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-04-02 19:58           ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-04-02 19:58             ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-04-02 20:14             ` Rik van Riel
2009-04-02 20:14               ` Rik van Riel
2009-04-02 20:34               ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge [this message]
2009-04-02 20:34                 ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-04-03  8:49                 ` Martin Schwidefsky
2009-04-03  8:49                   ` Martin Schwidefsky
2009-04-03 18:19                   ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-04-03 18:19                     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-04-06  7:21                     ` Martin Schwidefsky
2009-04-06  7:21                       ` Martin Schwidefsky
2009-04-06  7:32                       ` Nick Piggin
2009-04-06  7:32                         ` Nick Piggin
2009-04-06  7:32                         ` Nick Piggin
2009-04-06 19:23                       ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-04-06 19:23                         ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2009-04-02 19:27         ` Hugh Dickins
2009-04-02 19:27           ` Hugh Dickins

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