* Re: Virtualization project idea
2010-08-27 13:08 ` Pasi Kärkkäinen
@ 2010-08-27 13:17 ` Michal Novotny
2010-08-27 13:30 ` Pasi Kärkkäinen
2010-08-27 13:18 ` Christoph Egger
2010-08-27 13:29 ` Dhananjay Goel
2 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Michal Novotny @ 2010-08-27 13:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Pasi Kärkkäinen; +Cc: Dhananjay Goel, James Harper, xen-devel
On 08/27/2010 03:08 PM, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 06:33:35PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel wrote:
>
>> Yes, exactly. So, we wanted to know if it is possible to *share USB*
>> across VMs.
>>
>>
> I don't think USB protocol has been designed for *sharing*.
> I'm pretty certain only one computer/device/VM can use USB device at a time.
>
> -- Pasi
>
>
Pasi, I agree. I think the think here is that Dhananjay confused the USB
device sharing with the file system sharing. I guess the USB protocol
was not designed for sharing nevertheless sharing the filesystem on a
USB stick is a completely different think.
Dhananajay, you need to plug in the USB stick onto one computer (and
it's impossible to plug it into multiple computer at one time, of
course) and then setup the sharing. Everybody here is talking about the
hardware abstraction and virtualization and what you wrote is a
completely different thing - it's software-related and this has nothing
to do with the hardware emulation/abstraction what-so-ever.
Considering the NFS and all the sharing protocols there was something
why it doesn't corrupt the data. I'm no expert on this subject but I
think this is because they run in the server-client mode. All the
clients are talking to the server and the server itself is one computer
that's having the just one operating system working with this particular
device - no matter what the underlaying device is - it may be everything
- USB stick, IDE/SCSI/SAS drive or just a relay workstation to save all
the data into one remote media (e.g. for replication). What I mean is
that the basic thing is that it's running on only one operating system
(because of it's connected to this one machine *only*) so it takes care
of everything and it's aware of the write-cache and data operations
being done to this media.
Michal
--
Michal Novotny<minovotn@redhat.com>, RHCE
Virtualization Team (xen userspace), Red Hat
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread
* Re: Virtualization project idea
2010-08-27 13:17 ` Michal Novotny
@ 2010-08-27 13:30 ` Pasi Kärkkäinen
2010-08-27 13:35 ` Dhananjay Goel
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: Pasi Kärkkäinen @ 2010-08-27 13:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Michal Novotny; +Cc: Dhananjay Goel, James Harper, xen-devel
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 03:17:39PM +0200, Michal Novotny wrote:
> On 08/27/2010 03:08 PM, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
>> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 06:33:35PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, exactly. So, we wanted to know if it is possible to *share USB*
>>> across VMs.
>>>
>>>
>> I don't think USB protocol has been designed for *sharing*.
>> I'm pretty certain only one computer/device/VM can use USB device at a time.
>>
>> -- Pasi
>>
>>
>
> Pasi, I agree. I think the think here is that Dhananjay confused the USB
> device sharing with the file system sharing. I guess the USB protocol
> was not designed for sharing nevertheless sharing the filesystem on a
> USB stick is a completely different think.
>
> Dhananajay, you need to plug in the USB stick onto one computer (and
> it's impossible to plug it into multiple computer at one time, of
> course) and then setup the sharing. Everybody here is talking about the
> hardware abstraction and virtualization and what you wrote is a
> completely different thing - it's software-related and this has nothing
> to do with the hardware emulation/abstraction what-so-ever.
>
> Considering the NFS and all the sharing protocols there was something
> why it doesn't corrupt the data. I'm no expert on this subject but I
> think this is because they run in the server-client mode. All the
> clients are talking to the server and the server itself is one computer
> that's having the just one operating system working with this particular
> device - no matter what the underlaying device is - it may be everything
> - USB stick, IDE/SCSI/SAS drive or just a relay workstation to save all
> the data into one remote media (e.g. for replication). What I mean is
> that the basic thing is that it's running on only one operating system
> (because of it's connected to this one machine *only*) so it takes care
> of everything and it's aware of the write-cache and data operations
> being done to this media.
>
Yep.
If you want to share files from the hypervisor-host (from USB stick or from actual disk)
to the VMs you *can* do it today over-the-network (nfs,cifs,webdav,ftp) using the standard
client-server tools that have been used for over 20 years.
If you don't want to do it over-the-network, but somehow 'through' the hypervisor,
then you'd need to build some kind of special filesystem protocol that is able
to do the client-server communication over the hypervisor specific paths (xenbus etc).
And have drivers for it in the hypervisor-host, and in the VMs.
-- Pasi
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread* Re: Virtualization project idea
2010-08-27 13:30 ` Pasi Kärkkäinen
@ 2010-08-27 13:35 ` Dhananjay Goel
2010-08-27 13:46 ` Pasi Kärkkäinen
2010-08-27 13:47 ` Michal Novotny
2010-08-27 17:05 ` Pasi Kärkkäinen
2 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Dhananjay Goel @ 2010-08-27 13:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Pasi Kärkkäinen; +Cc: Michal Novotny, James Harper, xen-devel
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3237 bytes --]
If you don't want to do it over-the-network, but somehow 'through' the
hypervisor,
then you'd need to build some kind of special filesystem protocol that is
able
to do the client-server communication over the hypervisor specific paths
(xenbus etc).
And have drivers for it in the hypervisor-host, and in the VMs.
--So, is it possible to build a filesystem protocol to share USB devices? Is
my project feasible?
Thanks,
Dhananjay
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 7:00 PM, Pasi Kärkkäinen <pasik@iki.fi> wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 03:17:39PM +0200, Michal Novotny wrote:
> > On 08/27/2010 03:08 PM, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> >> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 06:33:35PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel wrote:
> >>
> >>> Yes, exactly. So, we wanted to know if it is possible to *share
> USB*
> >>> across VMs.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> I don't think USB protocol has been designed for *sharing*.
> >> I'm pretty certain only one computer/device/VM can use USB device at a
> time.
> >>
> >> -- Pasi
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Pasi, I agree. I think the think here is that Dhananjay confused the USB
> > device sharing with the file system sharing. I guess the USB protocol
> > was not designed for sharing nevertheless sharing the filesystem on a
> > USB stick is a completely different think.
> >
> > Dhananajay, you need to plug in the USB stick onto one computer (and
> > it's impossible to plug it into multiple computer at one time, of
> > course) and then setup the sharing. Everybody here is talking about the
> > hardware abstraction and virtualization and what you wrote is a
> > completely different thing - it's software-related and this has nothing
> > to do with the hardware emulation/abstraction what-so-ever.
> >
> > Considering the NFS and all the sharing protocols there was something
> > why it doesn't corrupt the data. I'm no expert on this subject but I
> > think this is because they run in the server-client mode. All the
> > clients are talking to the server and the server itself is one computer
> > that's having the just one operating system working with this particular
> > device - no matter what the underlaying device is - it may be everything
> > - USB stick, IDE/SCSI/SAS drive or just a relay workstation to save all
> > the data into one remote media (e.g. for replication). What I mean is
> > that the basic thing is that it's running on only one operating system
> > (because of it's connected to this one machine *only*) so it takes care
> > of everything and it's aware of the write-cache and data operations
> > being done to this media.
> >
>
> Yep.
>
> If you want to share files from the hypervisor-host (from USB stick or from
> actual disk)
> to the VMs you *can* do it today over-the-network (nfs,cifs,webdav,ftp)
> using the standard
> client-server tools that have been used for over 20 years.
>
> If you don't want to do it over-the-network, but somehow 'through' the
> hypervisor,
> then you'd need to build some kind of special filesystem protocol that is
> able
> to do the client-server communication over the hypervisor specific paths
> (xenbus etc).
> And have drivers for it in the hypervisor-host, and in the VMs.
>
> -- Pasi
>
>
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http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread
* Re: Virtualization project idea
2010-08-27 13:35 ` Dhananjay Goel
@ 2010-08-27 13:46 ` Pasi Kärkkäinen
2010-08-27 13:55 ` Dhananjay Goel
0 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Pasi Kärkkäinen @ 2010-08-27 13:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dhananjay Goel; +Cc: Michal Novotny, James Harper, xen-devel
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 07:05:11PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel wrote:
> If you don't want to do it over-the-network, but somehow 'through' the
> hypervisor,
> then you'd need to build some kind of special filesystem protocol that is
> able
> to do the client-server communication over the hypervisor specific paths
> (xenbus etc).
> And have drivers for it in the hypervisor-host, and in the VMs.
> --So, is it possible to build a filesystem protocol to share USB devices?
> Is my project feasible?
>
Yes, you can build some filesystem protocol and share ANY filesystem,
be it USB, SATA, SAS, RAID, whatnot.
If it's filesystem protocol it doesn't matter at all if it's USB or not.
-- Pasi
> Thanks,
> Dhananjay
>
> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 7:00 PM, Pasi K*rkk*inen <[1]pasik@iki.fi> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 03:17:39PM +0200, Michal Novotny wrote:
> > On 08/27/2010 03:08 PM, Pasi K*rkk*inen wrote:
> >> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 06:33:35PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel wrote:
> >>
> >>> * * Yes, exactly. So, we wanted to know if it is possible to *share
> USB*
> >>> * * across VMs.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> I don't think USB protocol has been designed for *sharing*.
> >> I'm pretty certain only one computer/device/VM can use USB device at
> a time.
> >>
> >> -- Pasi
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Pasi, I agree. I think the think here is that Dhananjay confused the
> USB
> > device sharing with the file system sharing. I guess the USB protocol
> > was not designed for sharing nevertheless sharing the filesystem on a
> > USB stick is a completely different think.
> >
> > Dhananajay, you need to plug in the USB stick onto one computer (and
> > it's impossible to plug it into multiple computer at one time, of
> > course) and then setup the sharing. Everybody here is talking about
> the
> > hardware abstraction and virtualization and what you wrote is a
> > completely different thing - it's software-related and this has
> nothing
> > to do with the hardware emulation/abstraction what-so-ever.
> >
> > Considering the NFS and all the sharing protocols there was something
> > why it doesn't corrupt the data. I'm no expert on this subject but I
> > think this is because they run in the server-client mode. All the
> > clients are talking to the server and the server itself is one
> computer
> > that's having the just one operating system working with this
> particular
> > device - no matter what the underlaying device is - it may be
> everything
> > - USB stick, IDE/SCSI/SAS drive or just a relay workstation to save
> all
> > the data into one remote media (e.g. for replication). What I mean is
> > that the basic thing is that it's running on only one operating system
> > (because of it's connected to this one machine *only*) so it takes
> care
> > of everything and it's aware of the write-cache and data operations
> > being done to this media.
> >
>
> Yep.
>
> If you want to share files from the hypervisor-host (from USB stick or
> from actual disk)
> to the VMs you *can* do it today over-the-network (nfs,cifs,webdav,ftp)
> using the standard
> client-server tools that have been used for over 20 years.
>
> If you don't want to do it over-the-network, but somehow 'through' the
> hypervisor,
> then you'd need to build some kind of special filesystem protocol that
> is able
> to do the client-server communication over the hypervisor specific paths
> (xenbus etc).
> And have drivers for it in the hypervisor-host, and in the VMs.
> -- Pasi
>
> References
>
> Visible links
> 1. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread
* Re: Virtualization project idea
2010-08-27 13:46 ` Pasi Kärkkäinen
@ 2010-08-27 13:55 ` Dhananjay Goel
2010-08-27 14:09 ` Pasi Kärkkäinen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Dhananjay Goel @ 2010-08-27 13:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Pasi Kärkkäinen
Cc: sourabh yerfule, Michal Novotny, James Harper, xen-devel
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 5110 bytes --]
Yes, you can build some filesystem protocol and share ANY filesystem,
be it USB, SATA, SAS, RAID, whatnot.
If it's filesystem protocol it doesn't matter at all if it's USB or not.
--But here we're sharing filesystem and not USB itself. Suppose we connect
internet through USB device, we can share data but not internet connection,
right?
*A few more questions:*
1) whether to use NFS and create plugins for different Oss. By plugin I mean
we'll be writing some code which will support windows sharing, some code for
linux sharing, etc
2) if not NFS then should we write some module to manage contexts and switch
between host and guest. This will involve some device driver coding
3) using NFS I guess we can't implement the USB internet . How to proceed on
that?
Thanks,
Dhananjay
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 7:16 PM, Pasi Kärkkäinen <pasik@iki.fi> wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 07:05:11PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel wrote:
> > If you don't want to do it over-the-network, but somehow 'through' the
> > hypervisor,
> > then you'd need to build some kind of special filesystem protocol that
> is
> > able
> > to do the client-server communication over the hypervisor specific
> paths
> > (xenbus etc).
> > And have drivers for it in the hypervisor-host, and in the VMs.
> > --So, is it possible to build a filesystem protocol to share USB
> devices?
> > Is my project feasible?
> >
>
> Yes, you can build some filesystem protocol and share ANY filesystem,
> be it USB, SATA, SAS, RAID, whatnot.
>
> If it's filesystem protocol it doesn't matter at all if it's USB or not.
>
> -- Pasi
>
> > Thanks,
> > Dhananjay
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 7:00 PM, Pasi K*rkk*inen <[1]pasik@iki.fi>
> wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 03:17:39PM +0200, Michal Novotny wrote:
> > > On 08/27/2010 03:08 PM, Pasi K*rkk*inen wrote:
> > >> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 06:33:35PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> * * Yes, exactly. So, we wanted to know if it is possible to
> *share
> > USB*
> > >>> * * across VMs.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >> I don't think USB protocol has been designed for *sharing*.
> > >> I'm pretty certain only one computer/device/VM can use USB device
> at
> > a time.
> > >>
> > >> -- Pasi
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > Pasi, I agree. I think the think here is that Dhananjay confused
> the
> > USB
> > > device sharing with the file system sharing. I guess the USB
> protocol
> > > was not designed for sharing nevertheless sharing the filesystem
> on a
> > > USB stick is a completely different think.
> > >
> > > Dhananajay, you need to plug in the USB stick onto one computer
> (and
> > > it's impossible to plug it into multiple computer at one time, of
> > > course) and then setup the sharing. Everybody here is talking
> about
> > the
> > > hardware abstraction and virtualization and what you wrote is a
> > > completely different thing - it's software-related and this has
> > nothing
> > > to do with the hardware emulation/abstraction what-so-ever.
> > >
> > > Considering the NFS and all the sharing protocols there was
> something
> > > why it doesn't corrupt the data. I'm no expert on this subject but
> I
> > > think this is because they run in the server-client mode. All the
> > > clients are talking to the server and the server itself is one
> > computer
> > > that's having the just one operating system working with this
> > particular
> > > device - no matter what the underlaying device is - it may be
> > everything
> > > - USB stick, IDE/SCSI/SAS drive or just a relay workstation to
> save
> > all
> > > the data into one remote media (e.g. for replication). What I mean
> is
> > > that the basic thing is that it's running on only one operating
> system
> > > (because of it's connected to this one machine *only*) so it takes
> > care
> > > of everything and it's aware of the write-cache and data
> operations
> > > being done to this media.
> > >
> >
> > Yep.
> >
> > If you want to share files from the hypervisor-host (from USB stick
> or
> > from actual disk)
> > to the VMs you *can* do it today over-the-network
> (nfs,cifs,webdav,ftp)
> > using the standard
> > client-server tools that have been used for over 20 years.
> >
> > If you don't want to do it over-the-network, but somehow 'through'
> the
> > hypervisor,
> > then you'd need to build some kind of special filesystem protocol
> that
> > is able
> > to do the client-server communication over the hypervisor specific
> paths
> > (xenbus etc).
> > And have drivers for it in the hypervisor-host, and in the VMs.
> > -- Pasi
> >
> > References
> >
> > Visible links
> > 1. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
>
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http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread
* Re: Virtualization project idea
2010-08-27 13:55 ` Dhananjay Goel
@ 2010-08-27 14:09 ` Pasi Kärkkäinen
0 siblings, 0 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: Pasi Kärkkäinen @ 2010-08-27 14:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dhananjay Goel; +Cc: sourabh yerfule, Michal Novotny, James Harper, xen-devel
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 07:25:39PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel wrote:
> Yes, you can build some filesystem protocol and share ANY filesystem,
> be it USB, SATA, SAS, RAID, whatnot.
>
> If it's filesystem protocol it doesn't matter at all if it's USB or not.
> --But here we're sharing filesystem and not USB itself. Suppose we connect
> internet through USB device, we can share data but not internet
> connection, right?*
> A few more questions:
> 1)*whether to use NFS and create plugins for different Oss. By plugin I
> mean we'll be writing some code which will support windows sharing, some
> code for linux sharing, etc
> 2)*if not NFS then should we write some module to manage contexts and
> switch between host and guest. This will involve some device driver coding
> 3)*using NFS I guess we can't implement the USB internet . How to proceed
> on that?
>
Uhm, this is a bit confusing now..
If you connect to Internet over an USB device, then you're using *IP* connection there.
You can share IP connection using the networking stack! Configure NAT, routing, bridging,
whatever you need. This is how it's done today with Xen and other virtualization solutions.
No need to know anything about USB to do that.
You need to start thinking about *functionality*, not about the fact if it's USB device or not.
USB device can be used only by *one* computer/host/VM. Then you can share it *from*
that computer/host/VM using other protocols/means.
-- Pasi
> Thanks,
> Dhananjay
>
> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 7:16 PM, Pasi K*rkk*inen <[1]pasik@iki.fi> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 07:05:11PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel wrote:
> > * *If you don't want to do it over-the-network, but somehow 'through'
> the
> > * *hypervisor,
> > * *then you'd need to build some kind of special filesystem protocol
> that is
> > * *able
> > * *to do the client-server communication over the hypervisor specific
> paths
> > * *(xenbus etc).
> > * *And have drivers for it in the hypervisor-host, and in the VMs.
> > * *--So, is it possible to build a filesystem protocol to share USB
> devices?
> > * *Is my project feasible?
> >
>
> Yes, you can build some filesystem protocol and share ANY filesystem,
> be it USB, SATA, SAS, RAID, whatnot.
>
> If it's filesystem protocol it doesn't matter at all if it's USB or not.
>
> -- Pasi
>
> > * *Thanks,
> > * *Dhananjay
> >
> > * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 7:00 PM, Pasi K*rkk*inen
> <[1][2]pasik@iki.fi> wrote:
> >
> > * * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 03:17:39PM +0200, Michal Novotny wrote:
> > * * *> On 08/27/2010 03:08 PM, Pasi K*rkk*inen wrote:
> > * * *>> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 06:33:35PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel
> wrote:
> > * * *>>
> > * * *>>> * * Yes, exactly. So, we wanted to know if it is possible to
> *share
> > * * *USB*
> > * * *>>> * * across VMs.
> > * * *>>>
> > * * *>>>
> > * * *>> I don't think USB protocol has been designed for *sharing*.
> > * * *>> I'm pretty certain only one computer/device/VM can use USB
> device at
> > * * *a time.
> > * * *>>
> > * * *>> -- Pasi
> > * * *>>
> > * * *>>
> > * * *>
> > * * *> Pasi, I agree. I think the think here is that Dhananjay
> confused the
> > * * *USB
> > * * *> device sharing with the file system sharing. I guess the USB
> protocol
> > * * *> was not designed for sharing nevertheless sharing the
> filesystem on a
> > * * *> USB stick is a completely different think.
> > * * *>
> > * * *> Dhananajay, you need to plug in the USB stick onto one computer
> (and
> > * * *> it's impossible to plug it into multiple computer at one time,
> of
> > * * *> course) and then setup the sharing. Everybody here is talking
> about
> > * * *the
> > * * *> hardware abstraction and virtualization and what you wrote is a
> > * * *> completely different thing - it's software-related and this has
> > * * *nothing
> > * * *> to do with the hardware emulation/abstraction what-so-ever.
> > * * *>
> > * * *> Considering the NFS and all the sharing protocols there was
> something
> > * * *> why it doesn't corrupt the data. I'm no expert on this subject
> but I
> > * * *> think this is because they run in the server-client mode. All
> the
> > * * *> clients are talking to the server and the server itself is one
> > * * *computer
> > * * *> that's having the just one operating system working with this
> > * * *particular
> > * * *> device - no matter what the underlaying device is - it may be
> > * * *everything
> > * * *> - USB stick, IDE/SCSI/SAS drive or just a relay workstation to
> save
> > * * *all
> > * * *> the data into one remote media (e.g. for replication). What I
> mean is
> > * * *> that the basic thing is that it's running on only one operating
> system
> > * * *> (because of it's connected to this one machine *only*) so it
> takes
> > * * *care
> > * * *> of everything and it's aware of the write-cache and data
> operations
> > * * *> being done to this media.
> > * * *>
> >
> > * * *Yep.
> >
> > * * *If you want to share files from the hypervisor-host (from USB
> stick or
> > * * *from actual disk)
> > * * *to the VMs you *can* do it today over-the-network
> (nfs,cifs,webdav,ftp)
> > * * *using the standard
> > * * *client-server tools that have been used for over 20 years.
> >
> > * * *If you don't want to do it over-the-network, but somehow
> 'through' the
> > * * *hypervisor,
> > * * *then you'd need to build some kind of special filesystem protocol
> that
> > * * *is able
> > * * *to do the client-server communication over the hypervisor
> specific paths
> > * * *(xenbus etc).
> > * * *And have drivers for it in the hypervisor-host, and in the VMs.
> > * * *-- Pasi
> >
> > References
> >
> > * *Visible links
> > * *1. mailto:[3]pasik@iki.fi
>
> References
>
> Visible links
> 1. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 2. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 3. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread
* Re: Virtualization project idea
2010-08-27 13:30 ` Pasi Kärkkäinen
2010-08-27 13:35 ` Dhananjay Goel
@ 2010-08-27 13:47 ` Michal Novotny
2010-08-27 17:05 ` Pasi Kärkkäinen
2 siblings, 0 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: Michal Novotny @ 2010-08-27 13:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Pasi Kärkkäinen; +Cc: Dhananjay Goel, James Harper, xen-devel
On 08/27/2010 03:30 PM, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 03:17:39PM +0200, Michal Novotny wrote:
>
>> On 08/27/2010 03:08 PM, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 06:33:35PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Yes, exactly. So, we wanted to know if it is possible to *share USB*
>>>> across VMs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I don't think USB protocol has been designed for *sharing*.
>>> I'm pretty certain only one computer/device/VM can use USB device at a time.
>>>
>>> -- Pasi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Pasi, I agree. I think the think here is that Dhananjay confused the USB
>> device sharing with the file system sharing. I guess the USB protocol
>> was not designed for sharing nevertheless sharing the filesystem on a
>> USB stick is a completely different think.
>>
>> Dhananajay, you need to plug in the USB stick onto one computer (and
>> it's impossible to plug it into multiple computer at one time, of
>> course) and then setup the sharing. Everybody here is talking about the
>> hardware abstraction and virtualization and what you wrote is a
>> completely different thing - it's software-related and this has nothing
>> to do with the hardware emulation/abstraction what-so-ever.
>>
>> Considering the NFS and all the sharing protocols there was something
>> why it doesn't corrupt the data. I'm no expert on this subject but I
>> think this is because they run in the server-client mode. All the
>> clients are talking to the server and the server itself is one computer
>> that's having the just one operating system working with this particular
>> device - no matter what the underlaying device is - it may be everything
>> - USB stick, IDE/SCSI/SAS drive or just a relay workstation to save all
>> the data into one remote media (e.g. for replication). What I mean is
>> that the basic thing is that it's running on only one operating system
>> (because of it's connected to this one machine *only*) so it takes care
>> of everything and it's aware of the write-cache and data operations
>> being done to this media.
>>
>>
> Yep.
>
> If you want to share files from the hypervisor-host (from USB stick or from actual disk)
> to the VMs you *can* do it today over-the-network (nfs,cifs,webdav,ftp) using the standard
> client-server tools that have been used for over 20 years.
>
> If you don't want to do it over-the-network, but somehow 'through' the hypervisor,
> then you'd need to build some kind of special filesystem protocol that is able
> to do the client-server communication over the hypervisor specific paths (xenbus etc).
> And have drivers for it in the hypervisor-host, and in the VMs.
>
> -- Pasi
>
>
Ok Pasi, I know what you mean. I was talking about physical machines
since Dhananjay compared this to physical machines. I know sharing
between VMs is possible using specific paths like the xenbus one.
Michal
--
Michal Novotny<minovotn@redhat.com>, RHCE
Virtualization Team (xen userspace), Red Hat
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread
* Re: Virtualization project idea
2010-08-27 13:30 ` Pasi Kärkkäinen
2010-08-27 13:35 ` Dhananjay Goel
2010-08-27 13:47 ` Michal Novotny
@ 2010-08-27 17:05 ` Pasi Kärkkäinen
2 siblings, 0 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: Pasi Kärkkäinen @ 2010-08-27 17:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Michal Novotny; +Cc: Dhananjay Goel, James Harper, xen-devel
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 04:30:42PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 03:17:39PM +0200, Michal Novotny wrote:
> > On 08/27/2010 03:08 PM, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> >> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 06:33:35PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel wrote:
> >>
> >>> Yes, exactly. So, we wanted to know if it is possible to *share USB*
> >>> across VMs.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> I don't think USB protocol has been designed for *sharing*.
> >> I'm pretty certain only one computer/device/VM can use USB device at a time.
> >>
> >> -- Pasi
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Pasi, I agree. I think the think here is that Dhananjay confused the USB
> > device sharing with the file system sharing. I guess the USB protocol
> > was not designed for sharing nevertheless sharing the filesystem on a
> > USB stick is a completely different think.
> >
> > Dhananajay, you need to plug in the USB stick onto one computer (and
> > it's impossible to plug it into multiple computer at one time, of
> > course) and then setup the sharing. Everybody here is talking about the
> > hardware abstraction and virtualization and what you wrote is a
> > completely different thing - it's software-related and this has nothing
> > to do with the hardware emulation/abstraction what-so-ever.
> >
> > Considering the NFS and all the sharing protocols there was something
> > why it doesn't corrupt the data. I'm no expert on this subject but I
> > think this is because they run in the server-client mode. All the
> > clients are talking to the server and the server itself is one computer
> > that's having the just one operating system working with this particular
> > device - no matter what the underlaying device is - it may be everything
> > - USB stick, IDE/SCSI/SAS drive or just a relay workstation to save all
> > the data into one remote media (e.g. for replication). What I mean is
> > that the basic thing is that it's running on only one operating system
> > (because of it's connected to this one machine *only*) so it takes care
> > of everything and it's aware of the write-cache and data operations
> > being done to this media.
> >
>
> Yep.
>
> If you want to share files from the hypervisor-host (from USB stick or from actual disk)
> to the VMs you *can* do it today over-the-network (nfs,cifs,webdav,ftp) using the standard
> client-server tools that have been used for over 20 years.
>
> If you don't want to do it over-the-network, but somehow 'through' the hypervisor,
> then you'd need to build some kind of special filesystem protocol that is able
> to do the client-server communication over the hypervisor specific paths (xenbus etc).
> And have drivers for it in the hypervisor-host, and in the VMs.
>
Oh, and as mentioned on irc, something like VirtFS (http://www.linuxplumbersconf.org/2010/ocw/proposals/603)
could be implemented over xenbus.. to make 'filesystem sharing', or 'paravirtual filesystem'
through the hypervisor.
-- Pasi
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread
* Re: Virtualization project idea
2010-08-27 13:08 ` Pasi Kärkkäinen
2010-08-27 13:17 ` Michal Novotny
@ 2010-08-27 13:18 ` Christoph Egger
2010-08-27 13:22 ` Pasi Kärkkäinen
2010-08-27 13:29 ` Dhananjay Goel
2 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Christoph Egger @ 2010-08-27 13:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: xen-devel; +Cc: Dhananjay Goel, James Harper
On Friday 27 August 2010 15:08:47 Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 06:33:35PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel wrote:
> > Yes, exactly. So, we wanted to know if it is possible to *share USB*
> > across VMs.
>
> I don't think USB protocol has been designed for *sharing*.
> I'm pretty certain only one computer/device/VM can use USB device at a
> time.
This might work with firewire devices, I'm not sure.
Christoph
>
> -- Pasi
>
> > Thanks,
> > Dhananjay
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 6:23 PM, Pasi Kärkkäinen <[1]pasik@iki.fi>
> > wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 06:16:32PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel wrote:
> > > How are you sharing USB flash drives with physical machines
> > > Comment: In ubuntu, plug in flash drive and access /media
> > > folder.
> >
> > Then
> >
> > > right click and click on "Sharing Options". Once you share it
> > > and
> >
> > give
> >
> > > others the right to add/edit the files, they can do so.
> >
> > That's NOT USB sharing at all!
> > That's just a general filesystem share (nfs,cifs,whatever network
> > share).
> >
> > You can do that with Xen, over the network, just like with physical
> > machines.
> >
> > -- Pasi
> >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Dhananjay
> > >
> > > On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 5:24 PM, Pasi K*rkk*inen
> >
> > <[1][2]pasik@iki.fi> wrote:
> > > On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 04:56:33PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel
wrote:
> > > > * *Also you wouldn't see the changes made in other VMs,
> > > > * *unless you made sure all the caches are refreshed etc in
> > > > the
> >
> > VM all
> >
> > > the
> > >
> > > > * *time.
> > > >
> > > > * *You'd need to use some cluster-filesystem (GFS, GFS2,
> > > > OCFS2,
> >
> > GPFS,
> >
> > > etc).
> > >
> > > > * *--Can you please suggest how NFS manages this because
> > > > this
> >
> > case is
> >
> > > handled
> > >
> > > > * *by NFS without any corruption?
> > > > * *We can share flash drive across VMs as we do with
> > > > physical
> >
> > machines
> >
> > > in
> > >
> > > > * *LAN. Please help!
> > >
> > > How are you sharing USB flash drives with physical machines?
> > >
> > > -- Pasi
> > >
> > > > * *Thanks,
> > > > * *Dhananjay
> > > >
> > > > * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Pasi K*rkk*inen
> > >
> > > <[1][2][3]pasik@iki.fi> wrote:
> > > > * * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 02:53:54PM +0530, Dhananjay
> > > > Goel
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > * * *> * *This won't be straight forward. Think about USB
> >
> > memory/flash
> >
> > > stick.
> > >
> > > > * * *> * *If every VM sees it, and simultaneously writes to
> > > > it,
> >
> > the
> >
> > > > * * *filesystem
> > > > * * *> * *in it will get corrupted immediately!
> > > > * * *>
> > > > * * *> * *--Why would it get corrupted immediately. Might
> > > > be we
> >
> > can
> >
> > > just lock
> > >
> > > > * * *a
> > > > * * *> * *specific file which is being edited? Please
> > > > suggest. * * *>
> > > >
> > > > * * *Because USB level has no idea about filesystems or
> > > > files,
> >
> > or
> >
> > > locking
> > >
> > > > * * *them!
> > > >
> > > > * * *Say you're using ext3 or NTFS in the VM for the USB
> >
> > device.
> >
> > > > * * *Those filesystems are NOT cluster-aware, ie. they're
> > > > not
> >
> > aware of
> >
> > > any
> > >
> > > > * * *sharing,
> > > > * * *and they don't support any kind of sharing.
> > > >
> > > > * * *They expect exclusive access to the device.
> > > >
> > > > * * *If suddenly the bits on the device change from
> > > > outside, * * *the filesystem gets corrupted very easily.
> > > >
> > > > * * *Also you wouldn't see the changes made in other VMs,
> > > > * * *unless you made sure all the caches are refreshed etc
> > > > in
> >
> > the VM
> >
> > > all the
> > >
> > > > * * *time.
> > > >
> > > > * * *You'd need to use some cluster-filesystem (GFS, GFS2,
> >
> > OCFS2,
> >
> > > GPFS, etc).
> > >
> > > > * * *-- Pasi
> > > >
> > > > * * *> * *Thanks,
> > > > * * *> * *Dhananjay
> > > > * * *>
> > > > * * *> * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 2:49 PM, Pasi K*rkk*inen
> > > > * * *<[1][2][3][4]pasik@iki.fi> wrote:
> > > > * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 02:45:12PM +0530,
> > > > Dhananjay
> >
> > Goel
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *No, that's not possible with pvusb. pvusb
> > > > is
> >
> > for
> >
> > > direct
> > >
> > > > * * *passthru to
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *one/single vm.
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *You'd need some filesystem share
> >
> > (cifs/nfs/whatnot)
> >
> > > to make
> > >
> > > > * * *such
> > > > * * *> * * *sharing
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *possible.
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *Comments: Is it possible to share USB
> >
> > keyboard, USB
> >
> > > mouse,
> > >
> > > > * * *USB
> > > > * * *> * * *modem, etc
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *across VMs i.e host and guest(s)? If we
> >
> > connect USB
> >
> > > > * * *keyboard, is it
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *possible to use it in guests?
> > > > * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *This is implemented in XCI (Xen Client
> > > > Initiative),
> >
> > and
> >
> > > there has
> > >
> > > > * * *been
> > > > * * *> * * *some discussions how to get it traditional Xen,
> > > > to
> >
> > help
> >
> > > Xen VGA
> > >
> > > > * * *> * * *Passthrough usage.
> > > > * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *See:
> > >
> > >
> > > [2][3][4][5]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > >
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *Also, is it possible for us to modify the
> >
> > device
> >
> > > driver of
> > >
> > > > * * *USB 2.0
> > > > * * *> * * *so that
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *all USB 2.0 devices are visible and can be
> >
> > used
> >
> > > across all
> > >
> > > > * * *VMs?
> > > > * * *> * * *Please
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *suggest.
> > > > * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *This won't be straight forward. Think about USB
> > >
> > > memory/flash
> > >
> > > > * * *stick.
> > > > * * *> * * *If every VM sees it, and simultaneously writes
> > > > to
> >
> > it, the
> >
> > > > * * *filesystem
> > > > * * *> * * *in it will get corrupted immediately!
> > > > * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *USB Passthru cannot be used to 'share' devices,
> >
> > it's for
> >
> > > giving
> > >
> > > > * * *> * * *one/single VM
> > > > * * *> * * *direct access to the device.
> > > > * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *-- Pasi
> > > > * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *Thanks,
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *Dhananjay
> > > > * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Pasi
> >
> > K*rkk*inen
> >
> > > > * * *> * * *<[1][3][4][5][6]pasik@iki.fi> wrote:
> > > > * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 01:37:49PM
> > > > +0530,
> >
> > Dhananjay
> >
> > > Goel
> > >
> > > > * * *wrote:
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *Hi James/Pasi,
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *I had a look at
> > > > * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *
> >
> >
> > [1][2][4][5][6][7]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> >
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *But I'm not sure if it supports
> > > > sharing
> >
> > USB
> >
> > > devices
> > >
> > > > * * *across
> > > > * * *> * * *VMs
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *(host and
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *guest) i.e. if I plug in a flash
> > > > drive
> >
> > then it
> >
> > > would
> > >
> > > > * * *detect
> > > > * * *> * * *in both
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *host
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *and guest and I'd be able edit
> > > > files
> >
> > from all
> >
> > > VMs
> > >
> > > > * * *rather
> > > > * * *> * * *than
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *mounting and
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *unmounting everytime from 1 VM to
> >
> > other.
> >
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *Please let me know your thoughts on
> > > > it. * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *No, that's not possible with pvusb.
> > > > pvusb is
> >
> > for
> >
> > > direct
> > >
> > > > * * *passthru
> > > > * * *> * * *to
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *one/single vm.
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *You'd need some filesystem share
> >
> > (cifs/nfs/whatnot)
> >
> > > to
> > >
> > > > * * *make such
> > > > * * *> * * *sharing
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *possible.
> > > > * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *-- Pasi
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *Thanks,
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *Dhananjay
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 4:28 AM,
> > > > James
> >
> > Harper
> >
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> *
> >
> > *<[2][3][5][6][7][8]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au>
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> Hi there!
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> First I'd like to say that XEN
> >
> > plaform is
> >
> > > really
> > >
> > > > * * *cool
> > > > * * *> * * *and
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *awesome.
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> I'm an engineering student and
> > > > is
> > >
> > > searching for a
> > >
> > > > * * *> * * *feasible
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *project in
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> virtualization. I'd like to
> > > > know if
> >
> > its
> >
> > > possible
> > >
> > > > * * *to
> > > > * * *> * * *share USB
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *devices
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *(flash
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> drive, hard disk, mouse,
> > > > keyboards
> >
> > etc)
> >
> > > across
> > >
> > > > * * *guests
> > > > * * *> * * *and host
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *(VMs).
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *Also, do
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> you have any idea to extend it?
> > > > Or
> >
> > any
> >
> > > innovative
> > >
> > > > * * *idea
> > > > * * *> * * *so that
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *we can
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> implement it.
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> I'd appreciate any help. Thanks
> > > > in
> > >
> > > advance.
> > >
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *Further to what Pasi said, I have
> >
> > partially
> >
> > > ported
> > >
> > > > * * *the
> > > > * * *> * * *backend
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *interface
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *and can hand you the code if you
> >
> > want. It's
> >
> > > > * * *probable a bit
> > > > * * *> * * *stale
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *vs the
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *current kernels and leaks memory
> >
> > under some
> >
> > > > * * *circumstances
> > > > * * *> * * *but is
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *probably better than starting
> > > > from
> >
> > scratch.
> >
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *James
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> References
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *Visible links
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *1.
> > > > * *
> >
> > *[4][6][7][8][9]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> >
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *2.
> > >
> > > mailto:[5][7][8][9][10]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > >
> > > > * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> References
> > > > * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *Visible links
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *1. mailto:[8][9][10][11]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *2.
> > > > * *
> >
> > *[9][10][11][12]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> >
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *3.
> >
> > mailto:[10][11][12][13]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> >
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *4.
> > > > * *
> >
> > *[11][12][13][14]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> >
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *5.
> >
> > mailto:[12][13][14][15]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> >
> > > > * * *>
> > > > * * *> References
> > > > * * *>
> > > > * * *> * *Visible links
> > > > * * *> * *1. mailto:[14][15][16]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > * * *> * *2.
> > >
> > >
> > > [15][16][17]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > >
> > > > * * *> * *3. mailto:[16][17][18]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > * * *> * *4.
> > >
> > >
> > > [17][18][19]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > >
> > > > * * *> * *5.
> > > > mailto:[18][19][20]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au * * *> *
> > > > *6.
> > >
> > >
> > > [19][20][21]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > >
> > > > * * *> * *7.
> > > > mailto:[20][21][22]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au * * *> *
> > > > *8. mailto:[21][22][23]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > * * *> * *9.
> > >
> > >
> > > [22][23][24]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > >
> > > > * * *> * 10.
> > > > mailto:[23][24][25]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au * * *> *
> > > > 11.
> > >
> > >
> > > [24][25][26]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > >
> > > > * * *> * 12.
> > > > mailto:[25][26][27]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > >
> > > > References
> > > >
> > > > * *Visible links
> > > > * *1. mailto:[27][28]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > * *2. mailto:[28][29]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > * *3.
> >
> > [29][30]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> >
> > > > * *4. mailto:[30][31]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > * *5.
> >
> > [31][32]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> >
> > > > * *6. mailto:[32][33]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > * *7.
> >
> > [33][34]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> >
> > > > * *8. mailto:[34][35]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > * *9. mailto:[35][36]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > * 10.
> >
> > [36][37]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> >
> > > > * 11. mailto:[37][38]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > * 12.
> >
> > [38][39]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> >
> > > > * 13. mailto:[39][40]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > * 14. mailto:[40][41]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > * 15.
> >
> > [41][42]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> >
> > > > * 16. mailto:[42][43]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > * 17.
> >
> > [43][44]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> >
> > > > * 18. mailto:[44][45]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > * 19.
> >
> > [45][46]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> >
> > > > * 20. mailto:[46][47]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > * 21. mailto:[47][48]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > * 22.
> >
> > [48][49]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> >
> > > > * 23. mailto:[49][50]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > * 24.
> >
> > [50][51]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> >
> > > > * 25. mailto:[51][52]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > >
> > > References
> > >
> > > Visible links
> > > 1. mailto:[53]pasik@iki.fi
> > > 2. mailto:[54]pasik@iki.fi
> > > 3. mailto:[55]pasik@iki.fi
> > > 4. [56]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > > 5. mailto:[57]pasik@iki.fi
> > > 6. [58]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 7. mailto:[59]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 8. [60]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 9. mailto:[61]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 10. mailto:[62]pasik@iki.fi
> > > 11. [63]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 12. mailto:[64]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 13. [65]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 14. mailto:[66]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 15. mailto:[67]pasik@iki.fi
> > > 16. [68]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > > 17. mailto:[69]pasik@iki.fi
> > > 18. [70]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 19. mailto:[71]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 20. [72]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 21. mailto:[73]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 22. mailto:[74]pasik@iki.fi
> > > 23. [75]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 24. mailto:[76]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 25. [77]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 26. mailto:[78]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 27. mailto:[79]pasik@iki.fi
> > > 28. mailto:[80]pasik@iki.fi
> > > 29. [81]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > > 30. mailto:[82]pasik@iki.fi
> > > 31. [83]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 32. mailto:[84]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 33. [85]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 34. mailto:[86]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 35. mailto:[87]pasik@iki.fi
> > > 36. [88]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 37. mailto:[89]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 38. [90]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 39. mailto:[91]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 40. mailto:[92]pasik@iki.fi
> > > 41. [93]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > > 42. mailto:[94]pasik@iki.fi
> > > 43. [95]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 44. mailto:[96]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 45. [97]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 46. mailto:[98]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 47. mailto:[99]pasik@iki.fi
> > > 48. [100]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 49. mailto:[101]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 50. [102]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 51. mailto:[103]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> >
> > References
> >
> > Visible links
> > 1. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 2. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 3. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 4. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 5. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > 6. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 7. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 8. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 9. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 10. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 11. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 12. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 13. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 14. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 15. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 16. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 17. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > 18. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 19. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 20. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 21. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 22. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 23. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 24. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 25. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 26. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 27. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 28. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 29. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 30. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > 31. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 32. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 33. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 34. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 35. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 36. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 37. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 38. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 39. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 40. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 41. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 42. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > 43. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 44. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 45. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 46. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 47. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 48. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 49. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 50. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 51. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 52. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 53. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 54. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 55. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 56. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > 57. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 58. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 59. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 60. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 61. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 62. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 63. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 64. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 65. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 66. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 67. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 68. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > 69. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 70. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 71. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 72. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 73. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 74. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 75. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 76. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 77. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 78. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 79. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 80. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 81. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > 82. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 83. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 84. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 85. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 86. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 87. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 88. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 89. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 90. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 91. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 92. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 93. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > 94. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 95. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 96. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 97. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 98. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 99. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 100. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 101. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 102. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 103. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
>
> _______________________________________________
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread
* Re: Virtualization project idea
2010-08-27 13:18 ` Christoph Egger
@ 2010-08-27 13:22 ` Pasi Kärkkäinen
2010-08-27 13:26 ` Michal Novotny
0 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Pasi Kärkkäinen @ 2010-08-27 13:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Christoph Egger; +Cc: Dhananjay Goel, xen-devel, James Harper
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 03:18:01PM +0200, Christoph Egger wrote:
> On Friday 27 August 2010 15:08:47 Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> > On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 06:33:35PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel wrote:
> > > Yes, exactly. So, we wanted to know if it is possible to *share USB*
> > > across VMs.
> >
> > I don't think USB protocol has been designed for *sharing*.
> > I'm pretty certain only one computer/device/VM can use USB device at a
> > time.
>
> This might work with firewire devices, I'm not sure.
>
Yeah, firewire (iee1394) is designed to so that you can attach
the devices to multiple computers..
If you attach the same firewire-disk to multiple computers,
and use the disk from multiple computers at the same time,
you *will* corrupt the filesystem on the disk.
Unless you run some kind of filesystem that has lock-manager,
that can coordinate the shared access to the disk..
ie. you must be running cluster-aware filesystem.
-- Pasi
> Christoph
>
>
> >
> > -- Pasi
> >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Dhananjay
> > >
> > > On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 6:23 PM, Pasi Kärkkäinen <[1]pasik@iki.fi>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 06:16:32PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel wrote:
> > > > How are you sharing USB flash drives with physical machines
> > > > Comment: In ubuntu, plug in flash drive and access /media
> > > > folder.
> > >
> > > Then
> > >
> > > > right click and click on "Sharing Options". Once you share it
> > > > and
> > >
> > > give
> > >
> > > > others the right to add/edit the files, they can do so.
> > >
> > > That's NOT USB sharing at all!
> > > That's just a general filesystem share (nfs,cifs,whatever network
> > > share).
> > >
> > > You can do that with Xen, over the network, just like with physical
> > > machines.
> > >
> > > -- Pasi
> > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Dhananjay
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 5:24 PM, Pasi K*rkk*inen
> > >
> > > <[1][2]pasik@iki.fi> wrote:
> > > > On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 04:56:33PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel
> wrote:
> > > > > * *Also you wouldn't see the changes made in other VMs,
> > > > > * *unless you made sure all the caches are refreshed etc in
> > > > > the
> > >
> > > VM all
> > >
> > > > the
> > > >
> > > > > * *time.
> > > > >
> > > > > * *You'd need to use some cluster-filesystem (GFS, GFS2,
> > > > > OCFS2,
> > >
> > > GPFS,
> > >
> > > > etc).
> > > >
> > > > > * *--Can you please suggest how NFS manages this because
> > > > > this
> > >
> > > case is
> > >
> > > > handled
> > > >
> > > > > * *by NFS without any corruption?
> > > > > * *We can share flash drive across VMs as we do with
> > > > > physical
> > >
> > > machines
> > >
> > > > in
> > > >
> > > > > * *LAN. Please help!
> > > >
> > > > How are you sharing USB flash drives with physical machines?
> > > >
> > > > -- Pasi
> > > >
> > > > > * *Thanks,
> > > > > * *Dhananjay
> > > > >
> > > > > * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Pasi K*rkk*inen
> > > >
> > > > <[1][2][3]pasik@iki.fi> wrote:
> > > > > * * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 02:53:54PM +0530, Dhananjay
> > > > > Goel
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > > > > * * *> * *This won't be straight forward. Think about USB
> > >
> > > memory/flash
> > >
> > > > stick.
> > > >
> > > > > * * *> * *If every VM sees it, and simultaneously writes to
> > > > > it,
> > >
> > > the
> > >
> > > > > * * *filesystem
> > > > > * * *> * *in it will get corrupted immediately!
> > > > > * * *>
> > > > > * * *> * *--Why would it get corrupted immediately. Might
> > > > > be we
> > >
> > > can
> > >
> > > > just lock
> > > >
> > > > > * * *a
> > > > > * * *> * *specific file which is being edited? Please
> > > > > suggest. * * *>
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *Because USB level has no idea about filesystems or
> > > > > files,
> > >
> > > or
> > >
> > > > locking
> > > >
> > > > > * * *them!
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *Say you're using ext3 or NTFS in the VM for the USB
> > >
> > > device.
> > >
> > > > > * * *Those filesystems are NOT cluster-aware, ie. they're
> > > > > not
> > >
> > > aware of
> > >
> > > > any
> > > >
> > > > > * * *sharing,
> > > > > * * *and they don't support any kind of sharing.
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *They expect exclusive access to the device.
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *If suddenly the bits on the device change from
> > > > > outside, * * *the filesystem gets corrupted very easily.
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *Also you wouldn't see the changes made in other VMs,
> > > > > * * *unless you made sure all the caches are refreshed etc
> > > > > in
> > >
> > > the VM
> > >
> > > > all the
> > > >
> > > > > * * *time.
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *You'd need to use some cluster-filesystem (GFS, GFS2,
> > >
> > > OCFS2,
> > >
> > > > GPFS, etc).
> > > >
> > > > > * * *-- Pasi
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *> * *Thanks,
> > > > > * * *> * *Dhananjay
> > > > > * * *>
> > > > > * * *> * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 2:49 PM, Pasi K*rkk*inen
> > > > > * * *<[1][2][3][4]pasik@iki.fi> wrote:
> > > > > * * *>
> > > > > * * *> * * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 02:45:12PM +0530,
> > > > > Dhananjay
> > >
> > > Goel
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * *No, that's not possible with pvusb. pvusb
> > > > > is
> > >
> > > for
> > >
> > > > direct
> > > >
> > > > > * * *passthru to
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * *one/single vm.
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * *You'd need some filesystem share
> > >
> > > (cifs/nfs/whatnot)
> > >
> > > > to make
> > > >
> > > > > * * *such
> > > > > * * *> * * *sharing
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * *possible.
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * *Comments: Is it possible to share USB
> > >
> > > keyboard, USB
> > >
> > > > mouse,
> > > >
> > > > > * * *USB
> > > > > * * *> * * *modem, etc
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * *across VMs i.e host and guest(s)? If we
> > >
> > > connect USB
> > >
> > > > > * * *keyboard, is it
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * *possible to use it in guests?
> > > > > * * *> * * *>
> > > > > * * *>
> > > > > * * *> * * *This is implemented in XCI (Xen Client
> > > > > Initiative),
> > >
> > > and
> > >
> > > > there has
> > > >
> > > > > * * *been
> > > > > * * *> * * *some discussions how to get it traditional Xen,
> > > > > to
> > >
> > > help
> > >
> > > > Xen VGA
> > > >
> > > > > * * *> * * *Passthrough usage.
> > > > > * * *>
> > > > > * * *> * * *See:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [2][3][4][5]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > > >
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * *Also, is it possible for us to modify the
> > >
> > > device
> > >
> > > > driver of
> > > >
> > > > > * * *USB 2.0
> > > > > * * *> * * *so that
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * *all USB 2.0 devices are visible and can be
> > >
> > > used
> > >
> > > > across all
> > > >
> > > > > * * *VMs?
> > > > > * * *> * * *Please
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * *suggest.
> > > > > * * *> * * *>
> > > > > * * *>
> > > > > * * *> * * *This won't be straight forward. Think about USB
> > > >
> > > > memory/flash
> > > >
> > > > > * * *stick.
> > > > > * * *> * * *If every VM sees it, and simultaneously writes
> > > > > to
> > >
> > > it, the
> > >
> > > > > * * *filesystem
> > > > > * * *> * * *in it will get corrupted immediately!
> > > > > * * *>
> > > > > * * *> * * *USB Passthru cannot be used to 'share' devices,
> > >
> > > it's for
> > >
> > > > giving
> > > >
> > > > > * * *> * * *one/single VM
> > > > > * * *> * * *direct access to the device.
> > > > > * * *>
> > > > > * * *> * * *-- Pasi
> > > > > * * *>
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * *Thanks,
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * *Dhananjay
> > > > > * * *> * * *>
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Pasi
> > >
> > > K*rkk*inen
> > >
> > > > > * * *> * * *<[1][3][4][5][6]pasik@iki.fi> wrote:
> > > > > * * *> * * *>
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 01:37:49PM
> > > > > +0530,
> > >
> > > Dhananjay
> > >
> > > > Goel
> > > >
> > > > > * * *wrote:
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *Hi James/Pasi,
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *I had a look at
> > > > > * * *> * * *>
> > > > > * * *
> > >
> > >
> > > [1][2][4][5][6][7]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > >
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *But I'm not sure if it supports
> > > > > sharing
> > >
> > > USB
> > >
> > > > devices
> > > >
> > > > > * * *across
> > > > > * * *> * * *VMs
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *(host and
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *guest) i.e. if I plug in a flash
> > > > > drive
> > >
> > > then it
> > >
> > > > would
> > > >
> > > > > * * *detect
> > > > > * * *> * * *in both
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *host
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *and guest and I'd be able edit
> > > > > files
> > >
> > > from all
> > >
> > > > VMs
> > > >
> > > > > * * *rather
> > > > > * * *> * * *than
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *mounting and
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *unmounting everytime from 1 VM to
> > >
> > > other.
> > >
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *Please let me know your thoughts on
> > > > > it. * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > > > > * * *> * * *>
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *No, that's not possible with pvusb.
> > > > > pvusb is
> > >
> > > for
> > >
> > > > direct
> > > >
> > > > > * * *passthru
> > > > > * * *> * * *to
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *one/single vm.
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *You'd need some filesystem share
> > >
> > > (cifs/nfs/whatnot)
> > >
> > > > to
> > > >
> > > > > * * *make such
> > > > > * * *> * * *sharing
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *possible.
> > > > > * * *> * * *>
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *-- Pasi
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *Thanks,
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *Dhananjay
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 4:28 AM,
> > > > > James
> > >
> > > Harper
> > >
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> *
> > >
> > > *<[2][3][5][6][7][8]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au>
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> Hi there!
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> First I'd like to say that XEN
> > >
> > > plaform is
> > >
> > > > really
> > > >
> > > > > * * *cool
> > > > > * * *> * * *and
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *awesome.
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> I'm an engineering student and
> > > > > is
> > > >
> > > > searching for a
> > > >
> > > > > * * *> * * *feasible
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *project in
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> virtualization. I'd like to
> > > > > know if
> > >
> > > its
> > >
> > > > possible
> > > >
> > > > > * * *to
> > > > > * * *> * * *share USB
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *devices
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *(flash
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> drive, hard disk, mouse,
> > > > > keyboards
> > >
> > > etc)
> > >
> > > > across
> > > >
> > > > > * * *guests
> > > > > * * *> * * *and host
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *(VMs).
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *Also, do
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> you have any idea to extend it?
> > > > > Or
> > >
> > > any
> > >
> > > > innovative
> > > >
> > > > > * * *idea
> > > > > * * *> * * *so that
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *we can
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> implement it.
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> I'd appreciate any help. Thanks
> > > > > in
> > > >
> > > > advance.
> > > >
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *Further to what Pasi said, I have
> > >
> > > partially
> > >
> > > > ported
> > > >
> > > > > * * *the
> > > > > * * *> * * *backend
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *interface
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *and can hand you the code if you
> > >
> > > want. It's
> > >
> > > > > * * *probable a bit
> > > > > * * *> * * *stale
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *vs the
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *current kernels and leaks memory
> > >
> > > under some
> > >
> > > > > * * *circumstances
> > > > > * * *> * * *but is
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *probably better than starting
> > > > > from
> > >
> > > scratch.
> > >
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *James
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> References
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *Visible links
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *1.
> > > > > * *
> > >
> > > *[4][6][7][8][9]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > >
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *2.
> > > >
> > > > mailto:[5][7][8][9][10]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > >
> > > > > * * *> * * *>
> > > > > * * *> * * *> References
> > > > > * * *> * * *>
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * *Visible links
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * *1. mailto:[8][9][10][11]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * *2.
> > > > > * *
> > >
> > > *[9][10][11][12]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > >
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * *3.
> > >
> > > mailto:[10][11][12][13]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > >
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * *4.
> > > > > * *
> > >
> > > *[11][12][13][14]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > >
> > > > > * * *> * * *> * *5.
> > >
> > > mailto:[12][13][14][15]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > >
> > > > > * * *>
> > > > > * * *> References
> > > > > * * *>
> > > > > * * *> * *Visible links
> > > > > * * *> * *1. mailto:[14][15][16]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > > * * *> * *2.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [15][16][17]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > > >
> > > > > * * *> * *3. mailto:[16][17][18]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > > * * *> * *4.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [17][18][19]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > >
> > > > > * * *> * *5.
> > > > > mailto:[18][19][20]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au * * *> *
> > > > > *6.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [19][20][21]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > >
> > > > > * * *> * *7.
> > > > > mailto:[20][21][22]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au * * *> *
> > > > > *8. mailto:[21][22][23]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > > * * *> * *9.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [22][23][24]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > >
> > > > > * * *> * 10.
> > > > > mailto:[23][24][25]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au * * *> *
> > > > > 11.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [24][25][26]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > >
> > > > > * * *> * 12.
> > > > > mailto:[25][26][27]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > >
> > > > > References
> > > > >
> > > > > * *Visible links
> > > > > * *1. mailto:[27][28]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > > * *2. mailto:[28][29]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > > * *3.
> > >
> > > [29][30]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > >
> > > > > * *4. mailto:[30][31]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > > * *5.
> > >
> > > [31][32]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > >
> > > > > * *6. mailto:[32][33]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > > * *7.
> > >
> > > [33][34]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > >
> > > > > * *8. mailto:[34][35]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > > * *9. mailto:[35][36]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > > * 10.
> > >
> > > [36][37]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > >
> > > > > * 11. mailto:[37][38]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > > * 12.
> > >
> > > [38][39]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > >
> > > > > * 13. mailto:[39][40]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > > * 14. mailto:[40][41]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > > * 15.
> > >
> > > [41][42]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > >
> > > > > * 16. mailto:[42][43]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > > * 17.
> > >
> > > [43][44]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > >
> > > > > * 18. mailto:[44][45]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > > * 19.
> > >
> > > [45][46]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > >
> > > > > * 20. mailto:[46][47]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > > * 21. mailto:[47][48]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > > * 22.
> > >
> > > [48][49]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > >
> > > > > * 23. mailto:[49][50]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > > * 24.
> > >
> > > [50][51]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > >
> > > > > * 25. mailto:[51][52]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > >
> > > > References
> > > >
> > > > Visible links
> > > > 1. mailto:[53]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > 2. mailto:[54]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > 3. mailto:[55]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > 4. [56]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > > > 5. mailto:[57]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > 6. [58]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > 7. mailto:[59]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > 8. [60]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > 9. mailto:[61]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > 10. mailto:[62]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > 11. [63]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > 12. mailto:[64]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > 13. [65]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > 14. mailto:[66]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > 15. mailto:[67]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > 16. [68]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > > > 17. mailto:[69]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > 18. [70]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > 19. mailto:[71]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > 20. [72]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > 21. mailto:[73]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > 22. mailto:[74]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > 23. [75]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > 24. mailto:[76]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > 25. [77]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > 26. mailto:[78]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > 27. mailto:[79]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > 28. mailto:[80]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > 29. [81]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > > > 30. mailto:[82]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > 31. [83]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > 32. mailto:[84]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > 33. [85]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > 34. mailto:[86]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > 35. mailto:[87]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > 36. [88]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > 37. mailto:[89]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > 38. [90]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > 39. mailto:[91]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > 40. mailto:[92]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > 41. [93]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > > > 42. mailto:[94]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > 43. [95]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > 44. mailto:[96]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > 45. [97]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > 46. mailto:[98]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > 47. mailto:[99]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > 48. [100]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > 49. mailto:[101]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > 50. [102]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > 51. mailto:[103]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > >
> > > References
> > >
> > > Visible links
> > > 1. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 2. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 3. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 4. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 5. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > > 6. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 7. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 8. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 9. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 10. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 11. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 12. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 13. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 14. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 15. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 16. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 17. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > > 18. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 19. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 20. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 21. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 22. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 23. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 24. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 25. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 26. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 27. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 28. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 29. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 30. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > > 31. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 32. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 33. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 34. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 35. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 36. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 37. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 38. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 39. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 40. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 41. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 42. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > > 43. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 44. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 45. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 46. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 47. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 48. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 49. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 50. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 51. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 52. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 53. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 54. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 55. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 56. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > > 57. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 58. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 59. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 60. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 61. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 62. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 63. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 64. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 65. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 66. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 67. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 68. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > > 69. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 70. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 71. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 72. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 73. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 74. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 75. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 76. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 77. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 78. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 79. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 80. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 81. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > > 82. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 83. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 84. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 85. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 86. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 87. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 88. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 89. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 90. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 91. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 92. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 93. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > > 94. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 95. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 96. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 97. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 98. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 99. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > > 100. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 101. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 102. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 103. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Xen-devel mailing list
> > Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com
> > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel
>
>
>
> --
> ---to satisfy European Law for business letters:
> Advanced Micro Devices GmbH
> Einsteinring 24, 85609 Dornach b. Muenchen
> Geschaeftsfuehrer: Alberto Bozzo, Andrew Bowd
> Sitz: Dornach, Gemeinde Aschheim, Landkreis Muenchen
> Registergericht Muenchen, HRB Nr. 43632
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread
* Re: Virtualization project idea
2010-08-27 13:22 ` Pasi Kärkkäinen
@ 2010-08-27 13:26 ` Michal Novotny
2010-08-27 13:33 ` Pasi Kärkkäinen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Michal Novotny @ 2010-08-27 13:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Pasi Kärkkäinen
Cc: Christoph Egger, xen-devel, Dhananjay Goel, James Harper
On 08/27/2010 03:22 PM, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 03:18:01PM +0200, Christoph Egger wrote:
>
>> On Friday 27 August 2010 15:08:47 Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 06:33:35PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes, exactly. So, we wanted to know if it is possible to *share USB*
>>>> across VMs.
>>>>
>>> I don't think USB protocol has been designed for *sharing*.
>>> I'm pretty certain only one computer/device/VM can use USB device at a
>>> time.
>>>
>> This might work with firewire devices, I'm not sure.
>>
>>
> Yeah, firewire (iee1394) is designed to so that you can attach
> the devices to multiple computers..
>
> If you attach the same firewire-disk to multiple computers,
> and use the disk from multiple computers at the same time,
> you *will* corrupt the filesystem on the disk.
>
> Unless you run some kind of filesystem that has lock-manager,
> that can coordinate the shared access to the disk..
> ie. you must be running cluster-aware filesystem.
>
> -- Pasi
>
>
Well guys, but we're talking about USB. The USB protocol is different
from firewire one. But that's right that I didn't know that. How is it
exactly done with the firewire to connect to multiple computers?
Michal
--
Michal Novotny<minovotn@redhat.com>, RHCE
Virtualization Team (xen userspace), Red Hat
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread
* Re: Virtualization project idea
2010-08-27 13:26 ` Michal Novotny
@ 2010-08-27 13:33 ` Pasi Kärkkäinen
2010-08-27 13:48 ` Michal Novotny
0 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Pasi Kärkkäinen @ 2010-08-27 13:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Michal Novotny; +Cc: Christoph Egger, xen-devel, Dhananjay Goel, James Harper
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 03:26:46PM +0200, Michal Novotny wrote:
> On 08/27/2010 03:22 PM, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
>> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 03:18:01PM +0200, Christoph Egger wrote:
>>
>>> On Friday 27 August 2010 15:08:47 Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 06:33:35PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, exactly. So, we wanted to know if it is possible to *share USB*
>>>>> across VMs.
>>>>>
>>>> I don't think USB protocol has been designed for *sharing*.
>>>> I'm pretty certain only one computer/device/VM can use USB device at a
>>>> time.
>>>>
>>> This might work with firewire devices, I'm not sure.
>>>
>>>
>> Yeah, firewire (iee1394) is designed to so that you can attach
>> the devices to multiple computers..
>>
>> If you attach the same firewire-disk to multiple computers,
>> and use the disk from multiple computers at the same time,
>> you *will* corrupt the filesystem on the disk.
>>
>> Unless you run some kind of filesystem that has lock-manager,
>> that can coordinate the shared access to the disk..
>> ie. you must be running cluster-aware filesystem.
>>
>> -- Pasi
>>
>>
> Well guys, but we're talking about USB. The USB protocol is different
> from firewire one. But that's right that I didn't know that. How is it
> exactly done with the firewire to connect to multiple computers?
>
Some (or all?) firewire devices have 'daisy chain' connectors,
so you can link multiple devices together..
You can use those connectors to hook up the same device to multiple computers.
People have implemented for example cheap proof-of-concept failover Oracle DB clusters
using firewire disks as cheap 'shared storage'.. there are many tutorials
about that on the internet.
-- Pasi
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread
* Re: Virtualization project idea
2010-08-27 13:33 ` Pasi Kärkkäinen
@ 2010-08-27 13:48 ` Michal Novotny
0 siblings, 0 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: Michal Novotny @ 2010-08-27 13:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Pasi Kärkkäinen
Cc: Christoph Egger, xen-devel, Dhananjay Goel, James Harper
On 08/27/2010 03:33 PM, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 03:26:46PM +0200, Michal Novotny wrote:
>
>> On 08/27/2010 03:22 PM, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 03:18:01PM +0200, Christoph Egger wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Friday 27 August 2010 15:08:47 Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 06:33:35PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, exactly. So, we wanted to know if it is possible to *share USB*
>>>>>> across VMs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think USB protocol has been designed for *sharing*.
>>>>> I'm pretty certain only one computer/device/VM can use USB device at a
>>>>> time.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> This might work with firewire devices, I'm not sure.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Yeah, firewire (iee1394) is designed to so that you can attach
>>> the devices to multiple computers..
>>>
>>> If you attach the same firewire-disk to multiple computers,
>>> and use the disk from multiple computers at the same time,
>>> you *will* corrupt the filesystem on the disk.
>>>
>>> Unless you run some kind of filesystem that has lock-manager,
>>> that can coordinate the shared access to the disk..
>>> ie. you must be running cluster-aware filesystem.
>>>
>>> -- Pasi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Well guys, but we're talking about USB. The USB protocol is different
>> from firewire one. But that's right that I didn't know that. How is it
>> exactly done with the firewire to connect to multiple computers?
>>
>>
> Some (or all?) firewire devices have 'daisy chain' connectors,
> so you can link multiple devices together..
>
> You can use those connectors to hook up the same device to multiple computers.
>
> People have implemented for example cheap proof-of-concept failover Oracle DB clusters
> using firewire disks as cheap 'shared storage'.. there are many tutorials
> about that on the internet.
>
> -- Pasi
>
>
Oh, great! Thanks for sharing this information!
Michal
--
Michal Novotny<minovotn@redhat.com>, RHCE
Virtualization Team (xen userspace), Red Hat
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread
* Re: Virtualization project idea
2010-08-27 13:08 ` Pasi Kärkkäinen
2010-08-27 13:17 ` Michal Novotny
2010-08-27 13:18 ` Christoph Egger
@ 2010-08-27 13:29 ` Dhananjay Goel
2010-08-27 13:34 ` Pasi Kärkkäinen
2 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Dhananjay Goel @ 2010-08-27 13:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Pasi Kärkkäinen; +Cc: James Harper, xen-devel
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 25532 bytes --]
I don't think USB protocol has been designed for *sharing*.
I'm pretty certain only one computer/device/VM can use USB device at a time.
--Please check: http://spice-space.org/ They're trying similar thing.
Thanks,
Dhananjay
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Pasi Kärkkäinen <pasik@iki.fi> wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 06:33:35PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel wrote:
> > Yes, exactly. So, we wanted to know if it is possible to *share USB*
> > across VMs.
> >
>
> I don't think USB protocol has been designed for *sharing*.
> I'm pretty certain only one computer/device/VM can use USB device at a
> time.
>
> -- Pasi
>
> > Thanks,
> > Dhananjay
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 6:23 PM, Pasi Kärkkäinen <[1]pasik@iki.fi>
> wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 06:16:32PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel wrote:
> > > How are you sharing USB flash drives with physical machines
> > > Comment: In ubuntu, plug in flash drive and access /media
> folder.
> > Then
> > > right click and click on "Sharing Options". Once you share it
> and
> > give
> > > others the right to add/edit the files, they can do so.
> > >
> >
> > That's NOT USB sharing at all!
> > That's just a general filesystem share (nfs,cifs,whatever network
> > share).
> >
> > You can do that with Xen, over the network, just like with physical
> > machines.
> >
> > -- Pasi
> >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Dhananjay
> > >
> > > On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 5:24 PM, Pasi K*rkk*inen
> > <[1][2]pasik@iki.fi> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 04:56:33PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel
> wrote:
> > > > * *Also you wouldn't see the changes made in other VMs,
> > > > * *unless you made sure all the caches are refreshed etc in
> the
> > VM all
> > > the
> > > > * *time.
> > > >
> > > > * *You'd need to use some cluster-filesystem (GFS, GFS2,
> OCFS2,
> > GPFS,
> > > etc).
> > > > * *--Can you please suggest how NFS manages this because
> this
> > case is
> > > handled
> > > > * *by NFS without any corruption?
> > > > * *We can share flash drive across VMs as we do with
> physical
> > machines
> > > in
> > > > * *LAN. Please help!
> > > >
> > >
> > > How are you sharing USB flash drives with physical machines?
> > >
> > > -- Pasi
> > >
> > > > * *Thanks,
> > > > * *Dhananjay
> > > >
> > > > * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Pasi K*rkk*inen
> > > <[1][2][3]pasik@iki.fi> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > * * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 02:53:54PM +0530, Dhananjay
> Goel
> > wrote:
> > > > * * *> * *This won't be straight forward. Think about USB
> > memory/flash
> > > stick.
> > > > * * *> * *If every VM sees it, and simultaneously writes to
> it,
> > the
> > > > * * *filesystem
> > > > * * *> * *in it will get corrupted immediately!
> > > > * * *>
> > > > * * *> * *--Why would it get corrupted immediately. Might
> be we
> > can
> > > just lock
> > > > * * *a
> > > > * * *> * *specific file which is being edited? Please
> suggest.
> > > > * * *>
> > > >
> > > > * * *Because USB level has no idea about filesystems or
> files,
> > or
> > > locking
> > > > * * *them!
> > > >
> > > > * * *Say you're using ext3 or NTFS in the VM for the USB
> > device.
> > > > * * *Those filesystems are NOT cluster-aware, ie. they're
> not
> > aware of
> > > any
> > > > * * *sharing,
> > > > * * *and they don't support any kind of sharing.
> > > >
> > > > * * *They expect exclusive access to the device.
> > > >
> > > > * * *If suddenly the bits on the device change from
> outside,
> > > > * * *the filesystem gets corrupted very easily.
> > > >
> > > > * * *Also you wouldn't see the changes made in other VMs,
> > > > * * *unless you made sure all the caches are refreshed etc
> in
> > the VM
> > > all the
> > > > * * *time.
> > > >
> > > > * * *You'd need to use some cluster-filesystem (GFS, GFS2,
> > OCFS2,
> > > GPFS, etc).
> > > >
> > > > * * *-- Pasi
> > > >
> > > > * * *> * *Thanks,
> > > > * * *> * *Dhananjay
> > > > * * *>
> > > > * * *> * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 2:49 PM, Pasi K*rkk*inen
> > > > * * *<[1][2][3][4]pasik@iki.fi> wrote:
> > > > * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 02:45:12PM +0530,
> Dhananjay
> > Goel
> > > wrote:
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *No, that's not possible with pvusb. pvusb
> is
> > for
> > > direct
> > > > * * *passthru to
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *one/single vm.
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *You'd need some filesystem share
> > (cifs/nfs/whatnot)
> > > to make
> > > > * * *such
> > > > * * *> * * *sharing
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *possible.
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *Comments: Is it possible to share USB
> > keyboard, USB
> > > mouse,
> > > > * * *USB
> > > > * * *> * * *modem, etc
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *across VMs i.e host and guest(s)? If we
> > connect USB
> > > > * * *keyboard, is it
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *possible to use it in guests?
> > > > * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *This is implemented in XCI (Xen Client
> Initiative),
> > and
> > > there has
> > > > * * *been
> > > > * * *> * * *some discussions how to get it traditional Xen,
> to
> > help
> > > Xen VGA
> > > > * * *> * * *Passthrough usage.
> > > > * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *See:
> > > [2][3][4][5]
> http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *Also, is it possible for us to modify the
> > device
> > > driver of
> > > > * * *USB 2.0
> > > > * * *> * * *so that
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *all USB 2.0 devices are visible and can be
> > used
> > > across all
> > > > * * *VMs?
> > > > * * *> * * *Please
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *suggest.
> > > > * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *This won't be straight forward. Think about USB
> > > memory/flash
> > > > * * *stick.
> > > > * * *> * * *If every VM sees it, and simultaneously writes
> to
> > it, the
> > > > * * *filesystem
> > > > * * *> * * *in it will get corrupted immediately!
> > > > * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *USB Passthru cannot be used to 'share' devices,
> > it's for
> > > giving
> > > > * * *> * * *one/single VM
> > > > * * *> * * *direct access to the device.
> > > > * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *-- Pasi
> > > > * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *Thanks,
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *Dhananjay
> > > > * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Pasi
> > K*rkk*inen
> > > > * * *> * * *<[1][3][4][5][6]pasik@iki.fi> wrote:
> > > > * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 01:37:49PM
> +0530,
> > Dhananjay
> > > Goel
> > > > * * *wrote:
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *Hi James/Pasi,
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *I had a look at
> > > > * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *
> > >
> > [1][2][4][5][6][7]
> http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *But I'm not sure if it supports
> sharing
> > USB
> > > devices
> > > > * * *across
> > > > * * *> * * *VMs
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *(host and
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *guest) i.e. if I plug in a flash
> drive
> > then it
> > > would
> > > > * * *detect
> > > > * * *> * * *in both
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *host
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *and guest and I'd be able edit
> files
> > from all
> > > VMs
> > > > * * *rather
> > > > * * *> * * *than
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *mounting and
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *unmounting everytime from 1 VM to
> > other.
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *Please let me know your thoughts on
> it.
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *No, that's not possible with pvusb.
> pvusb is
> > for
> > > direct
> > > > * * *passthru
> > > > * * *> * * *to
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *one/single vm.
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *You'd need some filesystem share
> > (cifs/nfs/whatnot)
> > > to
> > > > * * *make such
> > > > * * *> * * *sharing
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *possible.
> > > > * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *-- Pasi
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *Thanks,
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *Dhananjay
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 4:28 AM,
> James
> > Harper
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> *
> > *<[2][3][5][6][7][8]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au>
> > > wrote:
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> Hi there!
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> First I'd like to say that XEN
> > plaform is
> > > really
> > > > * * *cool
> > > > * * *> * * *and
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *awesome.
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> I'm an engineering student and
> is
> > > searching for a
> > > > * * *> * * *feasible
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *project in
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> virtualization. I'd like to
> know if
> > its
> > > possible
> > > > * * *to
> > > > * * *> * * *share USB
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *devices
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *(flash
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> drive, hard disk, mouse,
> keyboards
> > etc)
> > > across
> > > > * * *guests
> > > > * * *> * * *and host
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *(VMs).
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *Also, do
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> you have any idea to extend it?
> Or
> > any
> > > innovative
> > > > * * *idea
> > > > * * *> * * *so that
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *we can
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> implement it.
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> I'd appreciate any help. Thanks
> in
> > > advance.
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *Further to what Pasi said, I have
> > partially
> > > ported
> > > > * * *the
> > > > * * *> * * *backend
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *interface
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *and can hand you the code if you
> > want. It's
> > > > * * *probable a bit
> > > > * * *> * * *stale
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *vs the
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *current kernels and leaks memory
> > under some
> > > > * * *circumstances
> > > > * * *> * * *but is
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *probably better than starting
> from
> > scratch.
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *James
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> References
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *Visible links
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *1.
> > > > * *
> > *[4][6][7][8][9]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *2.
> > > mailto:[5][7][8][9][10]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> References
> > > > * * *> * * *>
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *Visible links
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *1. mailto:[8][9][10][11]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *2.
> > > > * *
> > *[9][10][11][12]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *3.
> > mailto:[10][11][12][13]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *4.
> > > > * *
> > *[11][12][13][14]
> http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > * * *> * * *> * *5.
> > mailto:[12][13][14][15]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > * * *>
> > > > * * *> References
> > > > * * *>
> > > > * * *> * *Visible links
> > > > * * *> * *1. mailto:[14][15][16]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > * * *> * *2.
> > > [15][16][17]
> http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > > > * * *> * *3. mailto:[16][17][18]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > * * *> * *4.
> > > [17][18][19]
> http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > * * *> * *5. mailto:[18][19][20]
> james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > * * *> * *6.
> > > [19][20][21]
> http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > * * *> * *7. mailto:[20][21][22]
> james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > * * *> * *8. mailto:[21][22][23]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > * * *> * *9.
> > > [22][23][24]
> http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > * * *> * 10. mailto:[23][24][25]
> james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > * * *> * 11.
> > > [24][25][26]
> http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > * * *> * 12. mailto:[25][26][27]
> james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > >
> > > > References
> > > >
> > > > * *Visible links
> > > > * *1. mailto:[27][28]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > * *2. mailto:[28][29]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > * *3.
> > [29][30]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > > > * *4. mailto:[30][31]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > * *5.
> > [31][32]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > * *6. mailto:[32][33]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > * *7.
> > [33][34]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > * *8. mailto:[34][35]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > * *9. mailto:[35][36]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > * 10.
> > [36][37]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > * 11. mailto:[37][38]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > * 12.
> > [38][39]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > * 13. mailto:[39][40]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > * 14. mailto:[40][41]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > * 15.
> > [41][42]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > > > * 16. mailto:[42][43]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > * 17.
> > [43][44]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > * 18. mailto:[44][45]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > * 19.
> > [45][46]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > * 20. mailto:[46][47]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > * 21. mailto:[47][48]pasik@iki.fi
> > > > * 22.
> > [48][49]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > * 23. mailto:[49][50]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > > * 24.
> > [50][51]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > > * 25. mailto:[51][52]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > >
> > > References
> > >
> > > Visible links
> > > 1. mailto:[53]pasik@iki.fi
> > > 2. mailto:[54]pasik@iki.fi
> > > 3. mailto:[55]pasik@iki.fi
> > > 4. [56]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > > 5. mailto:[57]pasik@iki.fi
> > > 6. [58]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 7. mailto:[59]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 8. [60]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 9. mailto:[61]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 10. mailto:[62]pasik@iki.fi
> > > 11. [63]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 12. mailto:[64]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 13. [65]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 14. mailto:[66]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 15. mailto:[67]pasik@iki.fi
> > > 16. [68]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > > 17. mailto:[69]pasik@iki.fi
> > > 18. [70]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 19. mailto:[71]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 20. [72]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 21. mailto:[73]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 22. mailto:[74]pasik@iki.fi
> > > 23. [75]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 24. mailto:[76]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 25. [77]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 26. mailto:[78]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 27. mailto:[79]pasik@iki.fi
> > > 28. mailto:[80]pasik@iki.fi
> > > 29. [81]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > > 30. mailto:[82]pasik@iki.fi
> > > 31. [83]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 32. mailto:[84]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 33. [85]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 34. mailto:[86]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 35. mailto:[87]pasik@iki.fi
> > > 36. [88]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 37. mailto:[89]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 38. [90]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 39. mailto:[91]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 40. mailto:[92]pasik@iki.fi
> > > 41. [93]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > > 42. mailto:[94]pasik@iki.fi
> > > 43. [95]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 44. mailto:[96]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 45. [97]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 46. mailto:[98]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 47. mailto:[99]pasik@iki.fi
> > > 48. [100]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 49. mailto:[101]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > > 50. [102]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > > 51. mailto:[103]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> >
> > References
> >
> > Visible links
> > 1. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 2. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 3. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 4. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 5. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > 6. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 7. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 8. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 9. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 10. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 11. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 12. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 13. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 14. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 15. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 16. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 17. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > 18. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 19. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 20. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 21. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 22. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 23. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 24. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 25. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 26. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 27. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 28. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 29. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 30. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > 31. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 32. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 33. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 34. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 35. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 36. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 37. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 38. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 39. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 40. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 41. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 42. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > 43. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 44. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 45. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 46. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 47. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 48. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 49. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 50. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 51. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 52. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 53. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 54. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 55. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 56. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > 57. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 58. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 59. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 60. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 61. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 62. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 63. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 64. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 65. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 66. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 67. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 68. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > 69. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 70. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 71. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 72. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 73. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 74. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 75. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 76. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 77. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 78. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 79. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 80. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 81. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > 82. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 83. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 84. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 85. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 86. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 87. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 88. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 89. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 90. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 91. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 92. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 93. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > 94. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 95. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 96. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 97. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 98. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 99. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> > 100. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 101. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > 102. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > 103. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
>
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_______________________________________________
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread
* Re: Virtualization project idea
2010-08-27 13:29 ` Dhananjay Goel
@ 2010-08-27 13:34 ` Pasi Kärkkäinen
2010-08-27 13:50 ` Michal Novotny
0 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Pasi Kärkkäinen @ 2010-08-27 13:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dhananjay Goel; +Cc: James Harper, xen-devel
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 06:59:55PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel wrote:
> I don't think USB protocol has been designed for *sharing*.
> I'm pretty certain only one computer/device/VM can use USB device at a
> time.
> --Please check:*[1]http://spice-space.org/*They're trying similar thing.
>
I think SPICE protocol allows you to *transport* (aka connect) single
USB device to single desktop OS. It's not USB sharing.
It's basicly USB-over-IP.. replacing the physical USB cable with IP connection.
-- Pasi
> Thanks,
> Dhananjay
>
> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Pasi K*rkk*inen <[2]pasik@iki.fi> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 06:33:35PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel wrote:
> > * *Yes, exactly. So, we wanted to know if it is possible to *share
> USB*
> > * *across VMs.
> >
>
> I don't think USB protocol has been designed for *sharing*.
> I'm pretty certain only one computer/device/VM can use USB device at a
> time.
>
> -- Pasi
>
> > * *Thanks,
> > * *Dhananjay
> >
> > * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 6:23 PM, Pasi K*rkk*inen
> <[1][3]pasik@iki.fi> wrote:
> >
> > * * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 06:16:32PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel wrote:
> > * * *> * *How are you sharing USB flash drives with physical machines
> > * * *> * *Comment: In ubuntu, plug in flash drive and access /media
> folder.
> > * * *Then
> > * * *> * *right click and click on "Sharing Options". Once you share
> it and
> > * * *give
> > * * *> * *others the right to add/edit the files, they can do so.
> > * * *>
> >
> > * * *That's NOT USB sharing at all!
> > * * *That's just a general filesystem share (nfs,cifs,whatever network
> > * * *share).
> >
> > * * *You can do that with Xen, over the network, just like with
> physical
> > * * *machines.
> >
> > * * *-- Pasi
> >
> > * * *> * *Thanks,
> > * * *> * *Dhananjay
> > * * *>
> > * * *> * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 5:24 PM, Pasi K*rkk*inen
> > * * *<[1][2][4]pasik@iki.fi> wrote:
> > * * *>
> > * * *> * * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 04:56:33PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel
> wrote:
> > * * *> * * *> * *Also you wouldn't see the changes made in other VMs,
> > * * *> * * *> * *unless you made sure all the caches are refreshed etc
> in the
> > * * *VM all
> > * * *> * * *the
> > * * *> * * *> * *time.
> > * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * *You'd need to use some cluster-filesystem (GFS, GFS2,
> OCFS2,
> > * * *GPFS,
> > * * *> * * *etc).
> > * * *> * * *> * *--Can you please suggest how NFS manages this because
> this
> > * * *case is
> > * * *> * * *handled
> > * * *> * * *> * *by NFS without any corruption?
> > * * *> * * *> * *We can share flash drive across VMs as we do with
> physical
> > * * *machines
> > * * *> * * *in
> > * * *> * * *> * *LAN. Please help!
> > * * *> * * *>
> > * * *>
> > * * *> * * *How are you sharing USB flash drives with physical
> machines?
> > * * *>
> > * * *> * * *-- Pasi
> > * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * *Thanks,
> > * * *> * * *> * *Dhananjay
> > * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Pasi K*rkk*inen
> > * * *> * * *<[1][2][3][5]pasik@iki.fi> wrote:
> > * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 02:53:54PM +0530, Dhananjay
> Goel
> > * * *wrote:
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *This won't be straight forward. Think about
> USB
> > * * *memory/flash
> > * * *> * * *stick.
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *If every VM sees it, and simultaneously writes
> to it,
> > * * *the
> > * * *> * * *> * * *filesystem
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *in it will get corrupted immediately!
> > * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *--Why would it get corrupted immediately.
> Might be we
> > * * *can
> > * * *> * * *just lock
> > * * *> * * *> * * *a
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *specific file which is being edited? Please
> suggest.
> > * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *Because USB level has no idea about filesystems or
> files,
> > * * *or
> > * * *> * * *locking
> > * * *> * * *> * * *them!
> > * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *Say you're using ext3 or NTFS in the VM for the USB
> > * * *device.
> > * * *> * * *> * * *Those filesystems are NOT cluster-aware, ie.
> they're not
> > * * *aware of
> > * * *> * * *any
> > * * *> * * *> * * *sharing,
> > * * *> * * *> * * *and they don't support any kind of sharing.
> > * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *They expect exclusive access to the device.
> > * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *If suddenly the bits on the device change from
> outside,
> > * * *> * * *> * * *the filesystem gets corrupted very easily.
> > * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *Also you wouldn't see the changes made in other
> VMs,
> > * * *> * * *> * * *unless you made sure all the caches are refreshed
> etc in
> > * * *the VM
> > * * *> * * *all the
> > * * *> * * *> * * *time.
> > * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *You'd need to use some cluster-filesystem (GFS,
> GFS2,
> > * * *OCFS2,
> > * * *> * * *GPFS, etc).
> > * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *-- Pasi
> > * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *Thanks,
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *Dhananjay
> > * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 2:49 PM, Pasi
> K*rkk*inen
> > * * *> * * *> * * *<[1][2][3][4][6]pasik@iki.fi> wrote:
> > * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 02:45:12PM +0530,
> Dhananjay
> > * * *Goel
> > * * *> * * *wrote:
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *No, that's not possible with pvusb.
> pvusb is
> > * * *for
> > * * *> * * *direct
> > * * *> * * *> * * *passthru to
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *one/single vm.
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *You'd need some filesystem share
> > * * *(cifs/nfs/whatnot)
> > * * *> * * *to make
> > * * *> * * *> * * *such
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *sharing
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *possible.
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *Comments: Is it possible to share USB
> > * * *keyboard, USB
> > * * *> * * *mouse,
> > * * *> * * *> * * *USB
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *modem, etc
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *across VMs i.e host and guest(s)? If we
> > * * *connect USB
> > * * *> * * *> * * *keyboard, is it
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *possible to use it in guests?
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *This is implemented in XCI (Xen Client
> Initiative),
> > * * *and
> > * * *> * * *there has
> > * * *> * * *> * * *been
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *some discussions how to get it traditional
> Xen, to
> > * * *help
> > * * *> * * *Xen VGA
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *Passthrough usage.
> > * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *See:
> > * * *> * *
> *[2][3][4][5][7]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *Also, is it possible for us to modify
> the
> > * * *device
> > * * *> * * *driver of
> > * * *> * * *> * * *USB 2.0
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *so that
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *all USB 2.0 devices are visible and can
> be
> > * * *used
> > * * *> * * *across all
> > * * *> * * *> * * *VMs?
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *Please
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *suggest.
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *This won't be straight forward. Think about
> USB
> > * * *> * * *memory/flash
> > * * *> * * *> * * *stick.
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *If every VM sees it, and simultaneously
> writes to
> > * * *it, the
> > * * *> * * *> * * *filesystem
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *in it will get corrupted immediately!
> > * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *USB Passthru cannot be used to 'share'
> devices,
> > * * *it's for
> > * * *> * * *giving
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *one/single VM
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *direct access to the device.
> > * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *-- Pasi
> > * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *Thanks,
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *Dhananjay
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Pasi
> > * * *K*rkk*inen
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *<[1][3][4][5][6][8]pasik@iki.fi> wrote:
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 01:37:49PM
> +0530,
> > * * *Dhananjay
> > * * *> * * *Goel
> > * * *> * * *> * * *wrote:
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *Hi James/Pasi,
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *I had a look at
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *
> > * * *>
> > * * *
> [1][2][4][5][6][7][9]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *But I'm not sure if it supports
> sharing
> > * * *USB
> > * * *> * * *devices
> > * * *> * * *> * * *across
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *VMs
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *(host and
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *guest) i.e. if I plug in a flash
> drive
> > * * *then it
> > * * *> * * *would
> > * * *> * * *> * * *detect
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *in both
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *host
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *and guest and I'd be able edit
> files
> > * * *from all
> > * * *> * * *VMs
> > * * *> * * *> * * *rather
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *than
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *mounting and
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *unmounting everytime from 1 VM
> to
> > * * *other.
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *Please let me know your thoughts
> on it.
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *No, that's not possible with pvusb.
> pvusb is
> > * * *for
> > * * *> * * *direct
> > * * *> * * *> * * *passthru
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *to
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *one/single vm.
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *You'd need some filesystem share
> > * * *(cifs/nfs/whatnot)
> > * * *> * * *to
> > * * *> * * *> * * *make such
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *sharing
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *possible.
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *-- Pasi
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *Thanks,
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *Dhananjay
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 4:28 AM,
> James
> > * * *Harper
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> *
> > * * **<[2][3][5][6][7][8][10]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au>
> > * * *> * * *wrote:
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> Hi there!
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> First I'd like to say that
> XEN
> > * * *plaform is
> > * * *> * * *really
> > * * *> * * *> * * *cool
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *and
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *awesome.
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> I'm an engineering student
> and is
> > * * *> * * *searching for a
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *feasible
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *project in
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> virtualization. I'd like to
> know if
> > * * *its
> > * * *> * * *possible
> > * * *> * * *> * * *to
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *share USB
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *devices
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *(flash
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> drive, hard disk, mouse,
> keyboards
> > * * *etc)
> > * * *> * * *across
> > * * *> * * *> * * *guests
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *and host
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *(VMs).
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *Also, do
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> you have any idea to extend
> it? Or
> > * * *any
> > * * *> * * *innovative
> > * * *> * * *> * * *idea
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *so that
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *we can
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> implement it.
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> I'd appreciate any help.
> Thanks in
> > * * *> * * *advance.
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *Further to what Pasi said, I
> have
> > * * *partially
> > * * *> * * *ported
> > * * *> * * *> * * *the
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *backend
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *interface
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *and can hand you the code if
> you
> > * * *want. It's
> > * * *> * * *> * * *probable a bit
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *stale
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *vs the
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *current kernels and leaks
> memory
> > * * *under some
> > * * *> * * *> * * *circumstances
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *but is
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *probably better than starting
> from
> > * * *scratch.
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *James
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> References
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *Visible links
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *1.
> > * * *> * * *> * *
> > * *
> **[4][6][7][8][9][11]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *2.
> > * * *> * * *mailto:[5][7][8][9][10][12]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> References
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *Visible links
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *1.
> mailto:[8][9][10][11][13]pasik@iki.fi
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *2.
> > * * *> * * *> * *
> > * *
> **[9][10][11][12][14]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *3.
> > * * *mailto:[10][11][12][13][15]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *4.
> > * * *> * * *> * *
> > * *
> **[11][12][13][14][16]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * * *> * *5.
> > * * *mailto:[12][13][14][15][17]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> References
> > * * *> * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *Visible links
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *1. mailto:[14][15][16][18]pasik@iki.fi
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *2.
> > * * *> * *
> *[15][16][17][19]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *3. mailto:[16][17][18][20]pasik@iki.fi
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *4.
> > * * *> * *
> *[17][18][19][21]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *5.
> mailto:[18][19][20][22]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *6.
> > * * *> * *
> *[19][20][21][23]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *7.
> mailto:[20][21][22][24]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *8. mailto:[21][22][23][25]pasik@iki.fi
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * *9.
> > * * *> * *
> *[22][23][24][26]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * 10.
> mailto:[23][24][25][27]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * 11.
> > * * *> * *
> *[24][25][26][28]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * * *> * * *> * 12.
> mailto:[25][26][27][29]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> References
> > * * *> * * *>
> > * * *> * * *> * *Visible links
> > * * *> * * *> * *1. mailto:[27][28][30]pasik@iki.fi
> > * * *> * * *> * *2. mailto:[28][29][31]pasik@iki.fi
> > * * *> * * *> * *3.
> > * * *[29][30][32]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > * * *> * * *> * *4. mailto:[30][31][33]pasik@iki.fi
> > * * *> * * *> * *5.
> > * * *[31][32][34]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * * *> * *6. mailto:[32][33][35]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * * *> * * *> * *7.
> > * * *[33][34][36]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * * *> * *8. mailto:[34][35][37]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * * *> * * *> * *9. mailto:[35][36][38]pasik@iki.fi
> > * * *> * * *> * 10.
> > * * *[36][37][39]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * * *> * 11. mailto:[37][38][40]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * * *> * * *> * 12.
> > * * *[38][39][41]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * * *> * 13. mailto:[39][40][42]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * * *> * * *> * 14. mailto:[40][41][43]pasik@iki.fi
> > * * *> * * *> * 15.
> > * * *[41][42][44]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > * * *> * * *> * 16. mailto:[42][43][45]pasik@iki.fi
> > * * *> * * *> * 17.
> > * * *[43][44][46]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * * *> * 18. mailto:[44][45][47]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * * *> * * *> * 19.
> > * * *[45][46][48]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * * *> * 20. mailto:[46][47][49]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * * *> * * *> * 21. mailto:[47][48][50]pasik@iki.fi
> > * * *> * * *> * 22.
> > * * *[48][49][51]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * * *> * 23. mailto:[49][50][52]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * * *> * * *> * 24.
> > * * *[50][51][53]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * * *> * 25. mailto:[51][52][54]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * * *>
> > * * *> References
> > * * *>
> > * * *> * *Visible links
> > * * *> * *1. mailto:[53][55]pasik@iki.fi
> > * * *> * *2. mailto:[54][56]pasik@iki.fi
> > * * *> * *3. mailto:[55][57]pasik@iki.fi
> > * * *> * *4.
> [56][58]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > * * *> * *5. mailto:[57][59]pasik@iki.fi
> > * * *> * *6.
> [58][60]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * *7. mailto:[59][61]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * * *> * *8.
> [60][62]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * *9. mailto:[61][63]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * * *> * 10. mailto:[62][64]pasik@iki.fi
> > * * *> * 11.
> [63][65]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * 12. mailto:[64][66]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * * *> * 13.
> [65][67]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * 14. mailto:[66][68]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * * *> * 15. mailto:[67][69]pasik@iki.fi
> > * * *> * 16.
> [68][70]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > * * *> * 17. mailto:[69][71]pasik@iki.fi
> > * * *> * 18.
> [70][72]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * 19. mailto:[71][73]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * * *> * 20.
> [72][74]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * 21. mailto:[73][75]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * * *> * 22. mailto:[74][76]pasik@iki.fi
> > * * *> * 23.
> [75][77]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * 24. mailto:[76][78]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * * *> * 25.
> [77][79]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * 26. mailto:[78][80]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * * *> * 27. mailto:[79][81]pasik@iki.fi
> > * * *> * 28. mailto:[80][82]pasik@iki.fi
> > * * *> * 29.
> [81][83]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > * * *> * 30. mailto:[82][84]pasik@iki.fi
> > * * *> * 31.
> [83][85]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * 32. mailto:[84][86]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * * *> * 33.
> [85][87]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * 34. mailto:[86][88]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * * *> * 35. mailto:[87][89]pasik@iki.fi
> > * * *> * 36.
> [88][90]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * 37. mailto:[89][91]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * * *> * 38.
> [90][92]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * 39. mailto:[91][93]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * * *> * 40. mailto:[92][94]pasik@iki.fi
> > * * *> * 41.
> [93][95]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > * * *> * 42. mailto:[94][96]pasik@iki.fi
> > * * *> * 43.
> [95][97]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * 44. mailto:[96][98]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * * *> * 45.
> [97][99]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * 46. mailto:[98][100]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * * *> * 47. mailto:[99][101]pasik@iki.fi
> > * * *> * 48.
> [100][102]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * 49. mailto:[101][103]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * * *> * 50.
> [102][104]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * * *> * 51. mailto:[103][105]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> >
> > References
> >
> > * *Visible links
> > * *1. mailto:[106]pasik@iki.fi
> > * *2. mailto:[107]pasik@iki.fi
> > * *3. mailto:[108]pasik@iki.fi
> > * *4. mailto:[109]pasik@iki.fi
> > * *5. [110]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > * *6. mailto:[111]pasik@iki.fi
> > * *7. [112]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * *8. mailto:[113]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * *9. [114]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * 10. mailto:[115]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * 11. mailto:[116]pasik@iki.fi
> > * 12. [117]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * 13. mailto:[118]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * 14. [119]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * 15. mailto:[120]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * 16. mailto:[121]pasik@iki.fi
> > * 17. [122]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > * 18. mailto:[123]pasik@iki.fi
> > * 19. [124]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * 20. mailto:[125]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * 21. [126]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * 22. mailto:[127]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * 23. mailto:[128]pasik@iki.fi
> > * 24. [129]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * 25. mailto:[130]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * 26. [131]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * 27. mailto:[132]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * 28. mailto:[133]pasik@iki.fi
> > * 29. mailto:[134]pasik@iki.fi
> > * 30. [135]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > * 31. mailto:[136]pasik@iki.fi
> > * 32. [137]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * 33. mailto:[138]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * 34. [139]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * 35. mailto:[140]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * 36. mailto:[141]pasik@iki.fi
> > * 37. [142]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * 38. mailto:[143]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * 39. [144]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * 40. mailto:[145]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * 41. mailto:[146]pasik@iki.fi
> > * 42. [147]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > * 43. mailto:[148]pasik@iki.fi
> > * 44. [149]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * 45. mailto:[150]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * 46. [151]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * 47. mailto:[152]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * 48. mailto:[153]pasik@iki.fi
> > * 49. [154]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * 50. mailto:[155]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * 51. [156]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * 52. mailto:[157]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * 53. mailto:[158]pasik@iki.fi
> > * 54. mailto:[159]pasik@iki.fi
> > * 55. mailto:[160]pasik@iki.fi
> > * 56. [161]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > * 57. mailto:[162]pasik@iki.fi
> > * 58. [163]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * 59. mailto:[164]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * 60. [165]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * 61. mailto:[166]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * 62. mailto:[167]pasik@iki.fi
> > * 63. [168]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * 64. mailto:[169]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * 65. [170]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * 66. mailto:[171]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * 67. mailto:[172]pasik@iki.fi
> > * 68. [173]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > * 69. mailto:[174]pasik@iki.fi
> > * 70. [175]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * 71. mailto:[176]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * 72. [177]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * 73. mailto:[178]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * 74. mailto:[179]pasik@iki.fi
> > * 75. [180]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * 76. mailto:[181]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * 77. [182]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * 78. mailto:[183]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * 79. mailto:[184]pasik@iki.fi
> > * 80. mailto:[185]pasik@iki.fi
> > * 81. [186]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > * 82. mailto:[187]pasik@iki.fi
> > * 83. [188]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * 84. mailto:[189]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * 85. [190]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * 86. mailto:[191]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * 87. mailto:[192]pasik@iki.fi
> > * 88. [193]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * 89. mailto:[194]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * 90. [195]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * 91. mailto:[196]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * 92. mailto:[197]pasik@iki.fi
> > * 93. [198]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> > * 94. mailto:[199]pasik@iki.fi
> > * 95. [200]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * 96. mailto:[201]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * 97. [202]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > * 98. mailto:[203]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > * 99. mailto:[204]pasik@iki.fi
> > *100. [205]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > *101. mailto:[206]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> > *102. [207]http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> > *103. mailto:[208]james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
>
> References
>
> Visible links
> 1. http://spice-space.org/
> 2. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 3. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 4. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 5. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 6. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 7. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> 8. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 9. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 10. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 11. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 12. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 13. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 14. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 15. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 16. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 17. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 18. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 19. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> 20. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 21. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 22. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 23. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 24. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 25. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 26. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 27. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 28. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 29. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 30. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 31. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 32. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> 33. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 34. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 35. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 36. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 37. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 38. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 39. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 40. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 41. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 42. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 43. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 44. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> 45. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 46. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 47. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 48. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 49. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 50. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 51. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 52. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 53. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 54. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 55. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 56. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 57. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 58. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> 59. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 60. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 61. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 62. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 63. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 64. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 65. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 66. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 67. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 68. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 69. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 70. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> 71. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 72. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 73. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 74. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 75. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 76. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 77. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 78. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 79. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 80. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 81. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 82. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 83. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> 84. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 85. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 86. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 87. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 88. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 89. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 90. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 91. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 92. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 93. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 94. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 95. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> 96. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 97. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 98. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 99. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 100. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 101. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 102. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 103. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 104. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 105. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 106. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 107. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 108. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 109. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 110. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> 111. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 112. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 113. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 114. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 115. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 116. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 117. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 118. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 119. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 120. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 121. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 122. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> 123. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 124. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 125. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 126. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 127. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 128. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 129. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 130. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 131. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 132. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 133. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 134. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 135. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> 136. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 137. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 138. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 139. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 140. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 141. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 142. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 143. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 144. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 145. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 146. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 147. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> 148. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 149. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 150. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 151. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 152. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 153. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 154. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 155. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 156. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 157. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 158. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 159. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 160. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 161. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> 162. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 163. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 164. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 165. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 166. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 167. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 168. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 169. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 170. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 171. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 172. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 173. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> 174. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 175. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 176. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 177. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 178. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 179. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 180. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 181. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 182. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 183. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 184. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 185. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 186. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> 187. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 188. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 189. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 190. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 191. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 192. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 193. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 194. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 195. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 196. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 197. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 198. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenVGAPassthrough
> 199. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 200. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 201. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 202. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 203. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 204. mailto:pasik@iki.fi
> 205. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 206. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
> 207. http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenUSBPassthrough
> 208. mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread
* Re: Virtualization project idea
2010-08-27 13:34 ` Pasi Kärkkäinen
@ 2010-08-27 13:50 ` Michal Novotny
2010-08-27 14:00 ` Dhananjay Goel
0 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Michal Novotny @ 2010-08-27 13:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Pasi Kärkkäinen; +Cc: Dhananjay Goel, James Harper, xen-devel
On 08/27/2010 03:34 PM, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 06:59:55PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel wrote:
>
>> I don't think USB protocol has been designed for *sharing*.
>> I'm pretty certain only one computer/device/VM can use USB device at a
>> time.
>> --Please check:*[1]http://spice-space.org/*They're trying similar thing.
>>
>>
> I think SPICE protocol allows you to *transport* (aka connect) single
> USB device to single desktop OS. It's not USB sharing.
>
> It's basicly USB-over-IP.. replacing the physical USB cable with IP connection.
>
> -- Pasi
>
>
Yeah, I think so. I think this is basically the USB over IP interface
which makes the impression of sharing and it even may be called sharing
but one device is being still physically connected to one slot/device
and not multiple at once.
Michal
--
Michal Novotny<minovotn@redhat.com>, RHCE
Virtualization Team (xen userspace), Red Hat
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread
* Re: Virtualization project idea
2010-08-27 13:50 ` Michal Novotny
@ 2010-08-27 14:00 ` Dhananjay Goel
2010-08-27 14:20 ` Michal Novotny
0 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Dhananjay Goel @ 2010-08-27 14:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Michal Novotny; +Cc: James Harper, xen-devel
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1598 bytes --]
Yeah, I think so. I think this is basically the USB over IP interface which
makes the impression of sharing and it even may be called sharing but one
device is being still physically connected to one slot/device and not
multiple at once.
--Yes, exactly. It is just connected to one slot/device and not multiple but
this device should be accessible to each virtual machine? As each virtual
machine is sharing the same hardware. Please let me know if it makes sense.
Thanks,
Dhananjay
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 7:20 PM, Michal Novotny <minovotn@redhat.com> wrote:
> On 08/27/2010 03:34 PM, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 06:59:55PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I don't think USB protocol has been designed for *sharing*.
>>> I'm pretty certain only one computer/device/VM can use USB device at a
>>> time.
>>> --Please check:*[1]http://spice-space.org/*They're trying similar
>>> thing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> I think SPICE protocol allows you to *transport* (aka connect) single
>> USB device to single desktop OS. It's not USB sharing.
>>
>> It's basicly USB-over-IP.. replacing the physical USB cable with IP
>> connection.
>>
>> -- Pasi
>>
>>
>>
> Yeah, I think so. I think this is basically the USB over IP interface which
> makes the impression of sharing and it even may be called sharing but one
> device is being still physically connected to one slot/device and not
> multiple at once.
>
>
> Michal
>
> --
> Michal Novotny<minovotn@redhat.com>, RHCE
> Virtualization Team (xen userspace), Red Hat
>
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread
* Re: Virtualization project idea
2010-08-27 14:00 ` Dhananjay Goel
@ 2010-08-27 14:20 ` Michal Novotny
0 siblings, 0 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: Michal Novotny @ 2010-08-27 14:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dhananjay Goel; +Cc: James Harper, xen-devel
On 08/27/2010 04:00 PM, Dhananjay Goel wrote:
> Yeah, I think so. I think this is basically the USB over IP interface
> which makes the impression of sharing and it even may be called
> sharing but one device is being still physically connected to one
> slot/device and not multiple at once.
>
> --Yes, exactly. It is just connected to one slot/device and not
> multiple but this device should be accessible to each virtual machine?
> As each virtual machine is sharing the same hardware. Please let me
> know if it makes sense.
>
> Thanks,
> Dhananjay
Basically that's right. It makes sense Dhananjay because this is the USB
over IP type of sharing. Imagine you have one device, let's say
hard-drive connected to the USB and there's some kind of protocol to
share it over the internet. It's more or less like let's say FTP server
with the exception that we don't access the FTP server application but
we access the USB hard-drive instead. It can accept all the command
using e.g. the HTTP protocol and the commands may be done simultaneously
when not conflicting with the other clients for which the perfect
example is the read-only access. Since it's not conflicting with any
other client every user/client could place a request on some file and
the file is being retrieved using the USB-over-IP protocol and the data
sent to the client that requested them. The virtual machines are sharing
the same hardware so that's why I used comparison to HTTP/FTP server and
it's clients. The logic is pretty similar AFAIK.
Michal
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 7:20 PM, Michal Novotny <minovotn@redhat.com
> <mailto:minovotn@redhat.com>> wrote:
>
> On 08/27/2010 03:34 PM, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
>
> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 06:59:55PM +0530, Dhananjay Goel wrote:
>
> I don't think USB protocol has been designed for *sharing*.
> I'm pretty certain only one computer/device/VM can use
> USB device at a
> time.
> --Please check:*[1]http://spice-space.org/*They're
> <http://spice-space.org/*They%27re> trying similar thing.
>
>
> I think SPICE protocol allows you to *transport* (aka connect)
> single
> USB device to single desktop OS. It's not USB sharing.
>
> It's basicly USB-over-IP.. replacing the physical USB cable
> with IP connection.
>
> -- Pasi
>
>
> Yeah, I think so. I think this is basically the USB over IP
> interface which makes the impression of sharing and it even may be
> called sharing but one device is being still physically connected
> to one slot/device and not multiple at once.
>
>
> Michal
>
> --
> Michal Novotny<minovotn@redhat.com <mailto:minovotn@redhat.com>>, RHCE
> Virtualization Team (xen userspace), Red Hat
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-devel mailing list
> Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel
>
--
Michal Novotny<minovotn@redhat.com>, RHCE
Virtualization Team (xen userspace), Red Hat
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread