[mlmmj] reply-to and reply-to-sender

[mlmmj] reply-to and reply-to-sender

[Morten Bressendorff Schmidt]

Hi

It's probably me... but...

mlmmj ubuntu-package 1.2.17-1.1

If I set "Reply-To" to be the mailinglist created, then replies go to
the list.... fine!

But when I use "Reply to sender" in my mailprograms, the reply still
goes to the mailinglist, not to the person who actually wrote the
mail...

Is what I wan't possible?

./morten

Re: [mlmmj] reply-to and reply-to-sender

[Mads Martin Jørgensen]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Morten Bressendorff Schmidt
<smet@smet.dk> wrote:
> It's probably me... but...
>
> mlmmj ubuntu-package 1.2.17-1.1
>
> If I set "Reply-To" to be the mailinglist created, then replies go to
> the list.... fine!
>
> But when I use "Reply to sender" in my mailprograms, the reply still
> goes to the mailinglist, not to the person who actually wrote the
> mail...
>
> Is what I wan't possible?

This is a mailclient issue. What email programs are you using?

-- 
Mads Martin Joergensen, http://mmj.dk
"Why make things difficult, when it is possible to make them cryptic
 and totally illogical, with just a little bit more effort?"
                                 -- A. P. J.

Re: [mlmmj] reply-to and reply-to-sender

[Morten Bressendorff Schmidt]

Thx...

evolution
2.30.3-1ubuntu7 

I'll try other clients in a moment

./morten

On Fri, 2010-10-22 at 13:52 +0200, Mads Martin Jørgensen wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Morten Bressendorff Schmidt
> <smet@smet.dk> wrote:
> > It's probably me... but...
> >
> > mlmmj ubuntu-package 1.2.17-1.1
> >
> > If I set "Reply-To" to be the mailinglist created, then replies go to
> > the list.... fine!
> >
> > But when I use "Reply to sender" in my mailprograms, the reply still
> > goes to the mailinglist, not to the person who actually wrote the
> > mail...
> >
> > Is what I wan't possible?
> 
> This is a mailclient issue. What email programs are you using?
> 

Re: [mlmmj] reply-to and reply-to-sender

[Morten Bressendorff Schmidt]

Same in Thunderbird, so must be something I did og did not dodo...

Reply to sender/reply to all works for mlmmj-list, but the reply-to
hasn't been set on that it seems...

This is my customheaders:
//--------------------------------------
X-Mailinglist: mlmmj-test__example_org
Reply-To: mlmmj-test@example.org
//--------------------------------------

./morten

P.S. Substituted my own domain... Duh!

On Fri, 2010-10-22 at 13:52 +0200, Mads Martin Jørgensen wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Morten Bressendorff Schmidt
> <smet@smet.dk> wrote:
> > It's probably me... but...
> >
> > mlmmj ubuntu-package 1.2.17-1.1
> >
> > If I set "Reply-To" to be the mailinglist created, then replies go to
> > the list.... fine!
> >
> > But when I use "Reply to sender" in my mailprograms, the reply still
> > goes to the mailinglist, not to the person who actually wrote the
> > mail...
> >
> > Is what I wan't possible?
> 
> This is a mailclient issue. What email programs are you using?
> 

Re: [mlmmj] reply-to and reply-to-sender

[Franky Van Liedekerke]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 731 bytes --]

2010/10/22 Mads Martin Jørgensen <mmj@mmj.dk>

> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Morten Bressendorff Schmidt
> <smet@smet.dk> wrote:
> > It's probably me... but...
> >
> > mlmmj ubuntu-package 1.2.17-1.1
> >
> > If I set "Reply-To" to be the mailinglist created, then replies go to
> > the list.... fine!
> >
> > But when I use "Reply to sender" in my mailprograms, the reply still
> > goes to the mailinglist, not to the person who actually wrote the
> > mail...
> >
> > Is what I wan't possible?
>
> This is a mailclient issue. What email programs are you using?
>
>
hmm ... before saying it is the client: show the mailheaders of your
received mail. Decisions of a client are based on these :-)

Franky

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Re: [mlmmj] reply-to and reply-to-sender

[Morten Bressendorff Schmidt]

Thx

Here is what I think you mean:

//-----------------------------------------------------
Return-path: <mlmmj-test+bounces-6-address=example.org@example.org>
X-original-to: address@example.org
Delivered-to: address@example.org
Received: by example.org (Postfix, from userid 116) id 51D72AB03E9; Fri,
22 Oct 2010 15:14:10 +0200 (CEST)
X-spam-checker-version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on frink
X-spam-level:·
X-spam-status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0
testsºYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, TVD_SPACE_RATIO autolearn=ham
version=3.3.1
Received: from frink (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by example.org (Postfix)
with SMTP id 8D36CAB03E7 for <address@example.org>; Fri, 22 Oct 2010
15:14:09 +0200 (CEST)
X-original-to: mlmmj-mlmmj-test.example.org@example.org
Delivered-to: mlmmj-mlmmj-test.example.org@example.org
Received: by example.org (Postfix, from userid 116) id 30940AB03E9; Fri,
22 Oct 2010 15:14:09 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from pasmtpB.tele.dk (pasmtpb.tele.dk [ip.ad.dr.ess]) by
example.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67F74AB03E7 for
<mlmmj-test@example.org>; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 15:14:08 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from [ip.add.res.s] (unknown [ip.add.re.ss]) by
pasmtpB.tele.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21FC4E30B69 for
<mlmmj-test@example.org>; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 15:14:08 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [mlmmj-test]  test
From: Morten Bressendorff Schmidt <address@example.org>
To: mlmmj-test <mlmmj-test@example.org>
Content-type: text/plain
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 15:14:08 +0200
Message-id: <1287753248.2377.33.camel@mbs-laptop>
X-mailinglist: mlmmj-test__example.org
Sender: mlmmj-test@example.org
List-id: <mlmmj-test.example.org>
List-help: <mailto:mlmmj-test+help@example.org>
List-post: <mailto:mlmmj-test@example.org>
List-subscribe: <mailto:mlmmj-test+subscribe@example.org>
List-unsubscribe: <mailto:mlmmj-test+unsubscribe@example.org>
Mime-version: 1.0
X-mailer: Evolution 2.30.3·
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
X-evolution-source: imap://address@mail.example.org/
//-----------------------------------------------------

Substituted email- and ip-addresses, I hope ;)

./morten

On Fri, 2010-10-22 at 15:08 +0200, Franky Van Liedekerke wrote:
> 2010/10/22 Mads Martin Jørgensen <mmj@mmj.dk>
>         
>         On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Morten Bressendorff Schmidt
>         <smet@smet.dk> wrote:
>         > It's probably me... but...
>         >
>         > mlmmj ubuntu-package 1.2.17-1.1
>         >
>         > If I set "Reply-To" to be the mailinglist created, then
>         replies go to
>         > the list.... fine!
>         >
>         > But when I use "Reply to sender" in my mailprograms, the
>         reply still
>         > goes to the mailinglist, not to the person who actually
>         wrote the
>         > mail...
>         >
>         > Is what I wan't possible?
>         
>         
>         This is a mailclient issue. What email programs are you using?
>         
> 
> hmm ... before saying it is the client: show the mailheaders of your
> received mail. Decisions of a client are based on these :-)
> 
> Franky
> 

Re: [mlmmj] reply-to and reply-to-sender

[Ben Schmidt]

IIRC, the Reply-To header is meant to mean what to reply to when
replying to the sender. It is designed to be set by the sender, not by
the list, to indicate they want replies to them sent elsewhere.

(Many lists set a Reply-To header though. This can make sense if there's
never really any reason to reply to the sender, but it's still not
technically correct, and many people recommend against it.)

To get a reply-to-list behaviour, you should include a List-Post header
(and other List-* headers are also recommended).

RFC2369, RFC2919.

Ben.



On 22/10/10 10:48 PM, Morten Bressendorff Schmidt wrote:
> Hi
>
> It's probably me... but...
>
> mlmmj ubuntu-package 1.2.17-1.1
>
> If I set "Reply-To" to be the mailinglist created, then replies go to
> the list.... fine!
>
> But when I use "Reply to sender" in my mailprograms, the reply still
> goes to the mailinglist, not to the person who actually wrote the
> mail...
>
> Is what I wan't possible?
>
> ./morten
>
>
>
>

Re: [mlmmj] reply-to and reply-to-sender

[Morten Bressendorff Schmidt]

Thx Ben

Did that just a couple of minutes ago ;)

./morten


On Sat, 2010-10-23 at 00:23 +1100, Ben Schmidt wrote:
> IIRC, the Reply-To header is meant to mean what to reply to when
> replying to the sender. It is designed to be set by the sender, not by
> the list, to indicate they want replies to them sent elsewhere.
> 
> (Many lists set a Reply-To header though. This can make sense if there's
> never really any reason to reply to the sender, but it's still not
> technically correct, and many people recommend against it.)
> 
> To get a reply-to-list behaviour, you should include a List-Post header
> (and other List-* headers are also recommended).
> 
> RFC2369, RFC2919.
> 
> Ben.
> 
> 
> 
> On 22/10/10 10:48 PM, Morten Bressendorff Schmidt wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > It's probably me... but...
> >
> > mlmmj ubuntu-package 1.2.17-1.1
> >
> > If I set "Reply-To" to be the mailinglist created, then replies go to
> > the list.... fine!
> >
> > But when I use "Reply to sender" in my mailprograms, the reply still
> > goes to the mailinglist, not to the person who actually wrote the
> > mail...
> >
> > Is what I wan't possible?
> >
> > ./morten
> >
> >
> >
> >

Re: [mlmmj] reply-to and reply-to-sender

[Ben Schmidt]

Did it help?

In a future release, I hope to include a bunch of sensible defaults for this kind 
of stuff, to make it easier for people to get it right. Or at the very least, 
include a list of best practices in the documentation.

Ben.



On 23/10/10 12:25 AM, Morten Bressendorff Schmidt wrote:
> Thx Ben
>
> Did that just a couple of minutes ago ;)
>
> ./morten
>
>
> On Sat, 2010-10-23 at 00:23 +1100, Ben Schmidt wrote:
>> IIRC, the Reply-To header is meant to mean what to reply to when
>> replying to the sender. It is designed to be set by the sender, not by
>> the list, to indicate they want replies to them sent elsewhere.
>>
>> (Many lists set a Reply-To header though. This can make sense if there's
>> never really any reason to reply to the sender, but it's still not
>> technically correct, and many people recommend against it.)
>>
>> To get a reply-to-list behaviour, you should include a List-Post header
>> (and other List-* headers are also recommended).
>>
>> RFC2369, RFC2919.
>>
>> Ben.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 22/10/10 10:48 PM, Morten Bressendorff Schmidt wrote:
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> It's probably me... but...
>>>
>>> mlmmj ubuntu-package 1.2.17-1.1
>>>
>>> If I set "Reply-To" to be the mailinglist created, then replies go to
>>> the list.... fine!
>>>
>>> But when I use "Reply to sender" in my mailprograms, the reply still
>>> goes to the mailinglist, not to the person who actually wrote the
>>> mail...
>>>
>>> Is what I wan't possible?
>>>
>>> ./morten
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>

Re: [mlmmj] reply-to and reply-to-sender

[Thomas Goirand]

On 10/22/2010 09:23 PM, Ben Schmidt wrote:
> To get a reply-to-list behaviour, you should include a List-Post header
> (and other List-* headers are also recommended).
> 
> RFC2369, RFC2919.
> 
> Ben.

Can you elaborate? If my list is list@example.org, what should I set as
header in MLMMJ, so that people don't reply to me by default?

Thomas

Re: [mlmmj] reply-to and reply-to-sender

[Ben Schmidt]

On 23/10/10 12:50 AM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 10/22/2010 09:23 PM, Ben Schmidt wrote:
>> To get a reply-to-list behaviour, you should include a List-Post header
>> (and other List-* headers are also recommended).
>>
>> RFC2369, RFC2919.
>>
>> Ben.
>
> Can you elaborate? If my list is list@example.org, what should I set as
> header in MLMMJ, so that people don't reply to me by default?
>
> Thomas

When I say 'get a reply-to-list behaviour' I mean 'have that kind of
reply made available as an option', not that it will be the default.

And I believe if you actually follow the standards, that's all you can
do.

I believe the thinking behind the standards is that whether reply to
author or reply to list is the default should be dictated by the mail
client or user preference, not the mail/list.

There are heaps of people (myself included) who think this is something
that a list should be able to dictate. And some (myself included) do
abuse Reply-To in order to get that behaviour. When you do so, though,
you do lose the ability to reply to the author--particularly if the
author actually set a Reply-To header, as it will have been lost, and
mail sent to the From address might not go anywhere useful.

Of course the Sender header is typically abused by mailing lists, too.
Though the standards clearly say it should be the address of a real
person responsible for sending the mail, which, at a stretch, could be
the mailing list owner, more often than not, the mailing list posting
address is used, by my observation.

Unforunately email standards and email practice don't always have too
strong a connection. This is another good reason to try to document this
stuff, and/or provide reasonable defaults with Mlmmj, IMHO, as it is
pretty hard to sort this kind of stuff out since neither following the
spec nor doing 'what everyone else does' is necessarily best.

(Disclaimer: I'm far from an expert!)

Smiles,

Ben.

Re: [mlmmj] reply-to and reply-to-sender

[Franky Van Liedekerke]

On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 01:44:42 +1100
Ben Schmidt <mail_ben_schmidt@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

> On 23/10/10 12:50 AM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> > On 10/22/2010 09:23 PM, Ben Schmidt wrote:
> >> To get a reply-to-list behaviour, you should include a List-Post
> >> header (and other List-* headers are also recommended).
> >>
> >> RFC2369, RFC2919.
> >>
> >> Ben.
> >
> > Can you elaborate? If my list is list@example.org, what should I
> > set as header in MLMMJ, so that people don't reply to me by default?
> >
> > Thomas
> 
> When I say 'get a reply-to-list behaviour' I mean 'have that kind of
> reply made available as an option', not that it will be the default.
> 
> And I believe if you actually follow the standards, that's all you can
> do.
> 
<snip>
> (Disclaimer: I'm far from an expert!)
> 
> Smiles,
> 
> Ben.

What you can try: set the "Sender" mailheader to you personally, and the
reply-to to the list. In your case the Sender header was also set to
the list. That should work ...

Franky