[LARTC] List fault?

[LARTC] List fault?

[Don Gould]

I'm getting a small stream of old posts and spam off this list.

Are others seeing same?

D

-- 
Don Gould
31 Acheson Ave
Mairehau
Christchurch, New Zealand
Ph: + 64 3 348 7235
Mobile: + 64 21 114 0699


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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Andreas Unterkircher]

Same here, after having not received mails from this list for a long, 
long time.

On 05/03/2011 11:52 PM, Don Gould wrote:
> I'm getting a small stream of old posts and spam off this list.
>
> Are others seeing same?
>
> D
>
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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Andrew Beverley]

On Wed, 2011-05-04 at 09:52 +1200, Don Gould wrote:
> I'm getting a small stream of old posts and spam off this list.
> 
> Are others seeing same?
> 

I've just had a load. Maybe they were a pile of messages that were held
for moderation and have just all been approved?

Would be nice to see some discussions on the list again!

Andy



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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Nikolay Kichukov]

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Hash: SHA1

Same here...

On 05/04/2011 09:04 AM, Andrew Beverley wrote:
> On Wed, 2011-05-04 at 09:52 +1200, Don Gould wrote:
>> I'm getting a small stream of old posts and spam off this list.
>>
>> Are others seeing same?
>>
> 
> I've just had a load. Maybe they were a pile of messages that were held
> for moderation and have just all been approved?
> 
> Would be nice to see some discussions on the list again!
> 
> Andy
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> LARTC mailing list
> LARTC@mailman.ds9a.nl
> http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Kim Bak]

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On 2011-05-04 05:43, Andreas Unterkircher wrote:
> Same here, after having not received mails from this list for a long,
> long time.
>
> On 05/03/2011 11:52 PM, Don Gould wrote:
>> I'm getting a small stream of old posts and spam off this list.
>>
>> Are others seeing same?

Yes, same here, I have not received mails from this list since Jan 22 
2008, I never unsubscribed the list.
Today I revived a fair amount of spam from the list and a few messages 
like this one.

>>
>> D
//Burner



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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Vitaly Tskhovrebov]

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The list is alive! :-D

On 5/4/2011 10:26 AM, Kim Bak wrote:
> On 2011-05-04 05:43, Andreas Unterkircher wrote:
>> Same here, after having not received mails from this list for a long,
>> long time.
>>
>> On 05/03/2011 11:52 PM, Don Gould wrote:
>>> I'm getting a small stream of old posts and spam off this list.
>>>
>>> Are others seeing same?
>
> Yes, same here, I have not received mails from this list since Jan 22 
> 2008, I never unsubscribed the list.
> Today I revived a fair amount of spam from the list and a few messages 
> like this one.
>
>>>
>>> D
> //Burner
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> LARTC mailing list
> LARTC@mailman.ds9a.nl
> http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc


-- 
Regards, Vitaly.


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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Andy Fletcher]

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Hash: SHA1

Hehe,

must be my fault.  I joined the list yesterday and have got nothing but
spam, old messages and comments on how broken the list is since ;-)

The web interface to mailman is painfully slow too.

Meanwhile I'll keep reading, maybe at some point there will be some real
discussion about Routing and traffic control.

/me waves


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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[João Almeida]

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Anyone managing the list can shed some light on the status of this list?

I for once wouldn't mind doing some moderation (if needed of course)...

2011/5/4 Kim Bak <burner@clanpips.dk>

> On 2011-05-04 05:43, Andreas Unterkircher wrote:
>
>> Same here, after having not received mails from this list for a long,
>> long time.
>>
>> On 05/03/2011 11:52 PM, Don Gould wrote:
>>
>>> I'm getting a small stream of old posts and spam off this list.
>>>
>>> Are others seeing same?
>>>
>>
> Yes, same here, I have not received mails from this list since Jan 22 2008,
> I never unsubscribed the list.
> Today I revived a fair amount of spam from the list and a few messages like
> this one.
>
>
>>> D
>>>
>> //Burner
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> LARTC mailing list
> LARTC@mailman.ds9a.nl
> http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
>
>

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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Radu Oprisan]

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Unfortunately, I think it all went to h*ll and back. I'll be more than 
willing to create a new list under my own domain and we can start 
discussing Linux routing once more. Anybody want me to do that?

On 05/04/2011 04:02 PM, João Almeida wrote:
> Anyone managing the list can shed some light on the status of this list?
>
> I for once wouldn't mind doing some moderation (if needed of course)...
>
> 2011/5/4 Kim Bak <burner@clanpips.dk <mailto:burner@clanpips.dk>>
>
>     On 2011-05-04 05:43, Andreas Unterkircher wrote:
>
>         Same here, after having not received mails from this list for
>         a long,
>         long time.
>
>         On 05/03/2011 11:52 PM, Don Gould wrote:
>
>             I'm getting a small stream of old posts and spam off this
>             list.
>
>             Are others seeing same?
>
>
>     Yes, same here, I have not received mails from this list since Jan
>     22 2008, I never unsubscribed the list.
>     Today I revived a fair amount of spam from the list and a few
>     messages like this one.
>
>
>             D
>
>     //Burner
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     LARTC mailing list
>     LARTC@mailman.ds9a.nl <mailto:LARTC@mailman.ds9a.nl>
>     http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> LARTC mailing list
> LARTC@mailman.ds9a.nl
> http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc


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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Brent Clark]

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On 04/05/2011 18:56, Radu Oprisan wrote:
> Unfortunately, I think it all went to h*ll and back. I'll be more than 
> willing to create a new list under my own domain and we can start 
> discussing Linux routing once more. Anybody want me to do that?

Flip that would be awesome, and appreciated.
Linux routing is so important, and I cant believe the powers that be, 
allowed this mailing list to get this state.

Kind Regards
Brent Clark

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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Radu Oprisan]

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I can set-up another mailing list in the morning (8 PM now, EEST). Think 
we can get somebody else to join?


On 05/04/2011 08:02 PM, Brent Clark wrote:
> On 04/05/2011 18:56, Radu Oprisan wrote:
>> Unfortunately, I think it all went to h*ll and back. I'll be more 
>> than willing to create a new list under my own domain and we can 
>> start discussing Linux routing once more. Anybody want me to do that?
>
> Flip that would be awesome, and appreciated.
> Linux routing is so important, and I cant believe the powers that be, 
> allowed this mailing list to get this state.
>
> Kind Regards
> Brent Clark


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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Grant Taylor]

On 05/04/11 12:03, Radu Oprisan wrote:
> I can set-up another mailing list in the morning (8 PM now, EEST).
>  Think we can get somebody else to join?

I'm not opposed to a new mailing list in and of its self.

However I think that this list (LARTC) is well known and documented all 
over the place.  So even if we migrate elsewhere, there will still be 
people that stumble on to this list.

I've personally noticed, for the last couple of years, that this list 
would be *EXTREMELY* delayed (as in weeks to months) for some unknown 
reason.  -  As I look at headers of some of the recent messages, I see 
that a message sat in the queue on the server for multiple months before 
being delivered to my mail server.

Seeing that now messages seem to be flowing in a timely manner, I'd 
suggest that we give this list a week to a month probation to see if it 
has straightened up it's act.

I'd also like a comment from the list maintainer or a moderator in his / 
her stead.

Other than the above concern, I'll support moving to a new mailing list 
as long as there are messages to this list (so that they can be found in 
archives) indicating the move.



Grant. . . .
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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Radu Oprisan]

On 05/04/2011 09:06 PM, Grant Taylor wrote:
> On 05/04/11 12:03, Radu Oprisan wrote:
>> I can set-up another mailing list in the morning (8 PM now, EEST).
>>  Think we can get somebody else to join?
>
> I'm not opposed to a new mailing list in and of its self.
>
> However I think that this list (LARTC) is well known and documented 
> all over the place.  So even if we migrate elsewhere, there will still 
> be people that stumble on to this list.
>
> I've personally noticed, for the last couple of years, that this list 
> would be *EXTREMELY* delayed (as in weeks to months) for some unknown 
> reason.  -  As I look at headers of some of the recent messages, I see 
> that a message sat in the queue on the server for multiple months 
> before being delivered to my mail server.
>
> Seeing that now messages seem to be flowing in a timely manner, I'd 
> suggest that we give this list a week to a month probation to see if 
> it has straightened up it's act.
>
> I'd also like a comment from the list maintainer or a moderator in his 
> / her stead.
>
> Other than the above concern, I'll support moving to a new mailing 
> list as long as there are messages to this list (so that they can be 
> found in archives) indicating the move.
>
>

True. We shall wait then for more information. On the other hand, I will 
try to contact LARTC in order to ask them for permission to take over 
this one.

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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Gregory Papangeles]

I agree with Grant.

Greg.

On 04 Μαϊ 2011, at 21:06 , Grant Taylor wrote:

> On 05/04/11 12:03, Radu Oprisan wrote:
>> I can set-up another mailing list in the morning (8 PM now, EEST).
>> Think we can get somebody else to join?
> 
> I'm not opposed to a new mailing list in and of its self.
> 
> However I think that this list (LARTC) is well known and documented all over the place.  So even if we migrate elsewhere, there will still be people that stumble on to this list.
> 
> I've personally noticed, for the last couple of years, that this list would be *EXTREMELY* delayed (as in weeks to months) for some unknown reason.  -  As I look at headers of some of the recent messages, I see that a message sat in the queue on the server for multiple months before being delivered to my mail server.
> 
> Seeing that now messages seem to be flowing in a timely manner, I'd suggest that we give this list a week to a month probation to see if it has straightened up it's act.
> 
> I'd also like a comment from the list maintainer or a moderator in his / her stead.
> 
> Other than the above concern, I'll support moving to a new mailing list as long as there are messages to this list (so that they can be found in archives) indicating the move.
> 
> 
> 
> Grant. . . .
> _______________________________________________
> LARTC mailing list
> LARTC@mailman.ds9a.nl
> http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
> 

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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Grant Taylor]

On 05/04/11 13:37, Radu Oprisan wrote:
> True. We shall wait then for more information. On the other hand, I will
> try to contact LARTC in order to ask them for permission to take over
> this one.

I will say that this is the first time in approximately two years that 
this mailing list has seemed to be responsive and capable of being used.

Heck, there have been 15 messages back and forth between subscribers 
today.  That simply was not possible in the past couple of years.



Grant. . . .
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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Grant Taylor]

On 05/04/11 13:37, Radu Oprisan wrote:
> I will try to contact LARTC in order to ask them for permission to
> take over this one.

(I'll make this pitch again.)

Does any one have any objections to (re)configuring the mailing list so 
that it sets the Reply-To header so that replies are directed back to 
the mailing list (as a discussion list)?

All in favor?

Any one against?



Grant. . . .
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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Micro-Shock]

going to have to agree... is nice to see however. =)

On Wed, 2011-05-04 at 14:11 -0500, Grant Taylor wrote:
> On 05/04/11 13:37, Radu Oprisan wrote:
> > True. We shall wait then for more information. On the other hand, I will
> > try to contact LARTC in order to ask them for permission to take over
> > this one.
> 
> I will say that this is the first time in approximately two years that 
> this mailing list has seemed to be responsive and capable of being used.
> 
> Heck, there have been 15 messages back and forth between subscribers 
> today.  That simply was not possible in the past couple of years.
> 
> 
> 
> Grant. . . .
> _______________________________________________
> LARTC mailing list
> LARTC@mailman.ds9a.nl
> http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc


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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Radoslaw Horodniczy]

How to unsubscribe from this spam list ?

( i cannot receive password from reminder)

Please help me

Regards

Radek
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Grant Taylor" <gtaylor@riverviewtech.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 9:24 PM
To: "Mail List - Linux Advanced Routing and Traffic Control" 
<lartc@mailman.ds9a.nl>
Subject: Re: [LARTC] List fault?

> On 05/04/11 13:37, Radu Oprisan wrote:
>> I will try to contact LARTC in order to ask them for permission to
>> take over this one.
>
> (I'll make this pitch again.)
>
> Does any one have any objections to (re)configuring the mailing list so 
> that it sets the Reply-To header so that replies are directed back to the 
> mailing list (as a discussion list)?
>
> All in favor?
>
> Any one against?
>
>
>
> Grant. . . .
> _______________________________________________
> LARTC mailing list
> LARTC@mailman.ds9a.nl
> http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc

 

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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[David Hough]

On Wed, 2011-05-04 at 14:24 -0500, Grant Taylor wrote:
> On 05/04/11 13:37, Radu Oprisan wrote:
> > I will try to contact LARTC in order to ask them for permission to
> > take over this one.
> 
> (I'll make this pitch again.)
> 
> Does any one have any objections to (re)configuring the mailing list so 
> that it sets the Reply-To header so that replies are directed back to 
> the mailing list (as a discussion list)?
> 
> All in favor?
> 
Aye

Anything else is irritating for this sort of mailing list.

Dave


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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Stuart Sheldon]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

In Favor...

Stuart Sheldon
ACT USA

On 05/04/2011 12:24 PM, Grant Taylor wrote:
> On 05/04/11 13:37, Radu Oprisan wrote:
>> I will try to contact LARTC in order to ask them for permission to
>> take over this one.
> 
> (I'll make this pitch again.)
> 
> Does any one have any objections to (re)configuring the mailing list so
> that it sets the Reply-To header so that replies are directed back to
> the mailing list (as a discussion list)?
> 
> All in favor?
> 
> Any one against?
> 
> 
> 
> Grant. . . .
> _______________________________________________
> LARTC mailing list
> LARTC@mailman.ds9a.nl
> http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
> 
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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Radu Oprisan]

Agreed.

On 05/04/2011 10:24 PM, Grant Taylor wrote:
> On 05/04/11 13:37, Radu Oprisan wrote:
>> I will try to contact LARTC in order to ask them for permission to
>> take over this one.
>
> (I'll make this pitch again.)
>
> Does any one have any objections to (re)configuring the mailing list 
> so that it sets the Reply-To header so that replies are directed back 
> to the mailing list (as a discussion list)?
>
> All in favor?
>
> Any one against?
>
>
>
> Grant. . . .
> _______________________________________________
> LARTC mailing list
> LARTC@mailman.ds9a.nl
> http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc

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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Grant Taylor]

On 05/04/11 14:33, Radoslaw Horodniczy wrote:
> How to unsubscribe from this spam list ?

The list may be (have been) broken, but it's not a source of spam.

> ( i cannot receive password from reminder)

That's odd.

If you are able to receive posts to the list, you should be able to 
receive the password reminders.

> Please help me

Try going to the following list information URL:

    http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc

There is an unsubscribe option towards the bottom of the page in the 
"LARTC Subscribers" section.

You can also make some changes to your subscription by following these 
directions (included in the original welcome message).

"""
You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to:

   LARTC-request@mailman.ds9a.nl

with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the
quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions.
"""

> Regards

Likewise.



Grant. . . .
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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Gregory Papangeles]

Aye.

Greg


On 04 Μαϊ 2011, at 22:24 , Grant Taylor wrote:

> On 05/04/11 13:37, Radu Oprisan wrote:
>> I will try to contact LARTC in order to ask them for permission to
>> take over this one.
> 
> (I'll make this pitch again.)
> 
> Does any one have any objections to (re)configuring the mailing list so that it sets the Reply-To header so that replies are directed back to the mailing list (as a discussion list)?
> 
> All in favor?
> 
> Any one against?
> 
> 
> 
> Grant. . . .
> _______________________________________________
> LARTC mailing list
> LARTC@mailman.ds9a.nl
> http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
> 

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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Javier Charne]

>
> On 05/04/2011 10:24 PM, Grant Taylor wrote:
>> On 05/04/11 13:37, Radu Oprisan wrote:
>>> I will try to contact LARTC in order to ask them for permission to
>>> take over this one.
>>
>> (I'll make this pitch again.)
>>
>> Does any one have any objections to (re)configuring the mailing list 
>> so that it sets the Reply-To header so that replies are directed back 
>> to the mailing list (as a discussion list)?
>>
>> All in favor?
>>
>> Any one against?
>>

I agree.

Javier.-

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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Ruben Rögels]

Am 04.05.2011 21:24, schrieb Grant Taylor:
> On 05/04/11 13:37, Radu Oprisan wrote:
>> I will try to contact LARTC in order to ask them for permission to
>> take over this one.
>
> (I'll make this pitch again.)
>
> Does any one have any objections to (re)configuring the mailing list 
> so that it sets the Reply-To header so that replies are directed back 
> to the mailing list (as a discussion list)?
>
> All in favor?
>
> Any one against?
>
>
>
> Grant. . . .
> _______________________________________________
> LARTC mailing list
> LARTC@mailman.ds9a.nl
> http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc

Please, do so.
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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Ralph Loader]

> Does any one have any objections to (re)configuring the mailing list so 
> that it sets the Reply-To header so that replies are directed back to 
> the mailing list (as a discussion list)?
> 
> All in favor?
> 
> Any one against?

From RFC2822 (my emphasis):

   When the "Reply-To:" field is present, it
   indicates the mailbox(es) to which the ***author*** of the message
   suggests that replies be sent.

As a matter of practicality, if you point Reply-To to the list,
then you are implementing a policy that all replies, no matter
how off-topic, should go to the list.  That is probably not what
is wanted.

Cheers,
Ralph.

> 
> 
> 
> Grant. . . .
> _______________________________________________
> LARTC mailing list
> LARTC@mailman.ds9a.nl
> http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Victor Julien]

On 05/04/2011 10:15 PM, Ruben Rögels wrote:
> Am 04.05.2011 21:24, schrieb Grant Taylor:
>> On 05/04/11 13:37, Radu Oprisan wrote:
>>> I will try to contact LARTC in order to ask them for permission to
>>> take over this one.
>>
>> (I'll make this pitch again.)
>>
>> Does any one have any objections to (re)configuring the mailing list
>> so that it sets the Reply-To header so that replies are directed back
>> to the mailing list (as a discussion list)?
>>
>> All in favor?
>>
>> Any one against?
>>
>>
>>
>> Grant. . . .
>> _______________________________________________
>> LARTC mailing list
>> LARTC@mailman.ds9a.nl
>> http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
> 
> Please, do so.

Maybe it's an idea to use LibreList[1] or Sourceforge or something?
Saves the trouble of admin and fighting spammers.

Cheers,
Victor

[1] http://librelist.com/

-- 
---------------------------------------------
Victor Julien
http://www.inliniac.net/
PGP: http://www.inliniac.net/victorjulien.asc
---------------------------------------------

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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Joe Perches]

On Wed, 2011-05-04 at 14:11 -0500, Grant Taylor wrote:
> On 05/04/11 13:37, Radu Oprisan wrote:
> > True. We shall wait then for more information. On the other hand, I will
> > try to contact LARTC in order to ask them for permission to take over
> > this one.
> 
> I will say that this is the first time in approximately two years that 
> this mailing list has seemed to be responsive and capable of being used.

I suggest asking the list admins at vger.kernel.org
to setup a linux-routing or linux-lartc mailing list.


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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Andrew Beverley]

On Wed, 2011-05-04 at 13:06 -0500, Grant Taylor wrote:
> On 05/04/11 12:03, Radu Oprisan wrote:
> > I can set-up another mailing list in the morning (8 PM now, EEST).
> >  Think we can get somebody else to join?
> 
> I'm not opposed to a new mailing list in and of its self.
> 
> However I think that this list (LARTC) is well known and documented all 
> over the place.  So even if we migrate elsewhere, there will still be 
> people that stumble on to this list.
> 

Agreed. I'm all for fixing what already exists rather than re-inventing
the wheel. If it's broken beyond repair though...

Andy


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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Andrew Beverley]

On Wed, 2011-05-04 at 14:56 -0700, Joe Perches wrote:
> On Wed, 2011-05-04 at 14:11 -0500, Grant Taylor wrote:
> > On 05/04/11 13:37, Radu Oprisan wrote:
> > > True. We shall wait then for more information. On the other hand, I will
> > > try to contact LARTC in order to ask them for permission to take over
> > > this one.
> > 
> > I will say that this is the first time in approximately two years that 
> > this mailing list has seemed to be responsive and capable of being used.
> 
> I suggest asking the list admins at vger.kernel.org
> to setup a linux-routing or linux-lartc mailing list.
> 

+1 if the existing list can't be fixed. That's where the rest of the
Linux networking lists are.

Andy


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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Russell Stuart]

On Wed, 2011-05-04 at 14:24 -0500, Grant Taylor wrote: 
> All in favor?
> 
> Any one against?

In favour.


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RE: [LARTC] List fault?

[Alex Samad]

+1

-----Original Message-----
From: lartc-bounces@mailman.ds9a.nl [mailto:lartc-bounces@mailman.ds9a.nl] On Behalf Of Russell Stuart
Sent: Thursday, 5 May 2011 9:41 AM
To: lartc@mailman.ds9a.nl
Subject: Re: [LARTC] List fault?

On Wed, 2011-05-04 at 14:24 -0500, Grant Taylor wrote: 
> All in favor?
> 
> Any one against?

In favour.


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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Indra Tjahjono]

+1

------Original Message------
From: Alex Samad
Sender: lartc-bounces@mailman.ds9a.nl
To: lartc@mailman.ds9a.nl
ReplyTo: alex@samad.com.au
Subject: RE: [LARTC] List fault?
Sent: May 5, 2011 06:56

+1

-----Original Message-----
From: lartc-bounces@mailman.ds9a.nl [mailto:lartc-bounces@mailman.ds9a.nl] On Behalf Of Russell Stuart
Sent: Thursday, 5 May 2011 9:41 AM
To: lartc@mailman.ds9a.nl
Subject: Re: [LARTC] List fault?

On Wed, 2011-05-04 at 14:24 -0500, Grant Taylor wrote: 
> All in favor?
> 
> Any one against?

In favour.


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Verinux Xecurelink Network
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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Russell Stuart]

On Wed, 2011-05-04 at 13:06 -0500, Grant Taylor wrote:
> Seeing that now messages seem to be flowing in a timely manner, I'd 
> suggest that we give this list a week to a month probation to see if
> it has straightened up it's act.I'd also like a comment from the list
> maintainer or a moderator in his / her stead.

The argument against that it is well neigh impossible to move the list
if the lists dies again, and we all loose contact with each other.  We
can only move the list while we are a coordinated group, and the only
means we have of coordinating is this list.  Dying again soon seems
likely.  I don't know why the list burst into life this time around, but
it has happened several times before only to die again a short while
later.

I like others think the list and its associated HOWTO is a pretty
important resource.  It would be nice to rescue it while we have the
chance.

> I'd also like a comment from the list maintainer or a moderator in
> his / her stead.

This person would be very handy if they pop up, but I would not be
waiting around for them.

The current problem we have is a social one.  We are a highly technical
group.  Just about of any of us could run a list server.  I imagine most
of us have the resources to do so.  So the problem isn't running the
server.  It is organising ourselves so the list is can be maintained
over decades as participants come and go.  Having one person in charge,
running a domain name owned by them or on hardware owned by them is not
a good way to go.

So Radu your offer to set up the list is great - but since it just
replicates the situation we are in now I don't think it or similar
offers are such a good idea.

A list on vger.kernel.org does seem like a workable solution.  Large a
third party provider such as google groups, yahoo groups, github,
sourceforge or savanaha may be an even better solution as they would be
just a reliable, and they provide a web page were we could collaborate
on for things like HOWTO's.  We would just have to organise among
ourselves governance of the list properly.

Normally I'd suggest we explore these other alternatives.  But we don't
know when the axe will fall again.  The chief attraction of
vger.kernel.org seems to be we don't have to organise governance - we
just hand it over to davem and matti (vger's admins).  So there is no
mucking around with internal politics - one or more of us just ask them
to set set up the list.

So who is in favour of doing this ASAP - like within the next few week
or so?  If you respond to this email, we can use the archived responses
as proof to vger.kernel.org's admins there is sufficient interest to
make it there worth their while.

> However I think that this list (LARTC) is well known and documented all 
> over the place.  So even if we migrate elsewhere, there will still be 
> people that stumble on to this list.

Yes, but there is nothing we can do about that.  Stumbling over a dead
list is not useful, regardless of how easy it is to find.  A working
list what we need, and that should be our first priority.

If the person who owns lartc@mailman.ds9a.nl pops up then we can do
other things that ameliorate "stumble over this list" problem - things
like putting in email redirects, put notices on web pages and so on.
But such things are just icing on the cake.  We should not wait to see
whether we can do it.  Just move the list, and organise the icing later
if we can.

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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Alexander Samad]

Yes, agree, affirmative, aye

On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Russell Stuart
<russell-lartc@stuart.id.au> wrote:
> On Wed, 2011-05-04 at 13:06 -0500, Grant Taylor wrote:
>> Seeing that now messages seem to be flowing in a timely manner, I'd
>> suggest that we give this list a week to a month probation to see if
>> it has straightened up it's act.I'd also like a comment from the list
>> maintainer or a moderator in his / her stead.
>
> The argument against that it is well neigh impossible to move the list
> if the lists dies again, and we all loose contact with each other.  We
> can only move the list while we are a coordinated group, and the only
> means we have of coordinating is this list.  Dying again soon seems
> likely.  I don't know why the list burst into life this time around, but
> it has happened several times before only to die again a short while
> later.
>
> I like others think the list and its associated HOWTO is a pretty
> important resource.  It would be nice to rescue it while we have the
> chance.
>
>> I'd also like a comment from the list maintainer or a moderator in
>> his / her stead.
>
> This person would be very handy if they pop up, but I would not be
> waiting around for them.
>
> The current problem we have is a social one.  We are a highly technical
> group.  Just about of any of us could run a list server.  I imagine most
> of us have the resources to do so.  So the problem isn't running the
> server.  It is organising ourselves so the list is can be maintained
> over decades as participants come and go.  Having one person in charge,
> running a domain name owned by them or on hardware owned by them is not
> a good way to go.
>
> So Radu your offer to set up the list is great - but since it just
> replicates the situation we are in now I don't think it or similar
> offers are such a good idea.
>
> A list on vger.kernel.org does seem like a workable solution.  Large a
> third party provider such as google groups, yahoo groups, github,
> sourceforge or savanaha may be an even better solution as they would be
> just a reliable, and they provide a web page were we could collaborate
> on for things like HOWTO's.  We would just have to organise among
> ourselves governance of the list properly.
>
> Normally I'd suggest we explore these other alternatives.  But we don't
> know when the axe will fall again.  The chief attraction of
> vger.kernel.org seems to be we don't have to organise governance - we
> just hand it over to davem and matti (vger's admins).  So there is no
> mucking around with internal politics - one or more of us just ask them
> to set set up the list.
>
> So who is in favour of doing this ASAP - like within the next few week
> or so?  If you respond to this email, we can use the archived responses
> as proof to vger.kernel.org's admins there is sufficient interest to
> make it there worth their while.
>
>> However I think that this list (LARTC) is well known and documented all
>> over the place.  So even if we migrate elsewhere, there will still be
>> people that stumble on to this list.
>
> Yes, but there is nothing we can do about that.  Stumbling over a dead
> list is not useful, regardless of how easy it is to find.  A working
> list what we need, and that should be our first priority.
>
> If the person who owns lartc@mailman.ds9a.nl pops up then we can do
> other things that ameliorate "stumble over this list" problem - things
> like putting in email redirects, put notices on web pages and so on.
> But such things are just icing on the cake.  We should not wait to see
> whether we can do it.  Just move the list, and organise the icing later
> if we can.
>
> _______________________________________________
> LARTC mailing list
> LARTC@mailman.ds9a.nl
> http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
>
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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Andrew Beverley]

On Thu, 2011-05-05 at 12:10 +1000, Russell Stuart wrote:
> A list on vger.kernel.org does seem like a workable solution.
> 
> So who is in favour of doing this ASAP - like within the next few week
> or so?

+1


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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Nikolay Kichukov]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Let's go for it then, count me in!

On 05/05/2011 05:10 AM, Russell Stuart wrote:
> On Wed, 2011-05-04 at 13:06 -0500, Grant Taylor wrote:
>> Seeing that now messages seem to be flowing in a timely manner, I'd 
>> suggest that we give this list a week to a month probation to see if
>> it has straightened up it's act.I'd also like a comment from the list
>> maintainer or a moderator in his / her stead.
> 
> The argument against that it is well neigh impossible to move the list
> if the lists dies again, and we all loose contact with each other.  We
> can only move the list while we are a coordinated group, and the only
> means we have of coordinating is this list.  Dying again soon seems
> likely.  I don't know why the list burst into life this time around, but
> it has happened several times before only to die again a short while
> later.
> 
> I like others think the list and its associated HOWTO is a pretty
> important resource.  It would be nice to rescue it while we have the
> chance.
> 
>> I'd also like a comment from the list maintainer or a moderator in
>> his / her stead.
> 
> This person would be very handy if they pop up, but I would not be
> waiting around for them.
> 
> The current problem we have is a social one.  We are a highly technical
> group.  Just about of any of us could run a list server.  I imagine most
> of us have the resources to do so.  So the problem isn't running the
> server.  It is organising ourselves so the list is can be maintained
> over decades as participants come and go.  Having one person in charge,
> running a domain name owned by them or on hardware owned by them is not
> a good way to go.
> 
> So Radu your offer to set up the list is great - but since it just
> replicates the situation we are in now I don't think it or similar
> offers are such a good idea.
> 
> A list on vger.kernel.org does seem like a workable solution.  Large a
> third party provider such as google groups, yahoo groups, github,
> sourceforge or savanaha may be an even better solution as they would be
> just a reliable, and they provide a web page were we could collaborate
> on for things like HOWTO's.  We would just have to organise among
> ourselves governance of the list properly.
> 
> Normally I'd suggest we explore these other alternatives.  But we don't
> know when the axe will fall again.  The chief attraction of
> vger.kernel.org seems to be we don't have to organise governance - we
> just hand it over to davem and matti (vger's admins).  So there is no
> mucking around with internal politics - one or more of us just ask them
> to set set up the list.
> 
> So who is in favour of doing this ASAP - like within the next few week
> or so?  If you respond to this email, we can use the archived responses
> as proof to vger.kernel.org's admins there is sufficient interest to
> make it there worth their while.
> 
>> However I think that this list (LARTC) is well known and documented all 
>> over the place.  So even if we migrate elsewhere, there will still be 
>> people that stumble on to this list.
> 
> Yes, but there is nothing we can do about that.  Stumbling over a dead
> list is not useful, regardless of how easy it is to find.  A working
> list what we need, and that should be our first priority.
> 
> If the person who owns lartc@mailman.ds9a.nl pops up then we can do
> other things that ameliorate "stumble over this list" problem - things
> like putting in email redirects, put notices on web pages and so on.
> But such things are just icing on the cake.  We should not wait to see
> whether we can do it.  Just move the list, and organise the icing later
> if we can.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> LARTC mailing list
> LARTC@mailman.ds9a.nl
> http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Luciano Ruete]

+1 

On Wednesday, May 04, 2011 11:10:01 pm Russell Stuart wrote:
> On Wed, 2011-05-04 at 13:06 -0500, Grant Taylor wrote:
> > Seeing that now messages seem to be flowing in a timely manner, I'd
> > suggest that we give this list a week to a month probation to see if
> > it has straightened up it's act.I'd also like a comment from the list
> > maintainer or a moderator in his / her stead.
> 
> The argument against that it is well neigh impossible to move the list
> if the lists dies again, and we all loose contact with each other.  We
> can only move the list while we are a coordinated group, and the only
> means we have of coordinating is this list.  Dying again soon seems
> likely.  I don't know why the list burst into life this time around, but
> it has happened several times before only to die again a short while
> later.
> 
> I like others think the list and its associated HOWTO is a pretty
> important resource.  It would be nice to rescue it while we have the
> chance.
> 
> > I'd also like a comment from the list maintainer or a moderator in
> > his / her stead.
> 
> This person would be very handy if they pop up, but I would not be
> waiting around for them.
> 
> The current problem we have is a social one.  We are a highly technical
> group.  Just about of any of us could run a list server.  I imagine most
> of us have the resources to do so.  So the problem isn't running the
> server.  It is organising ourselves so the list is can be maintained
> over decades as participants come and go.  Having one person in charge,
> running a domain name owned by them or on hardware owned by them is not
> a good way to go.
> 
> So Radu your offer to set up the list is great - but since it just
> replicates the situation we are in now I don't think it or similar
> offers are such a good idea.
> 
> A list on vger.kernel.org does seem like a workable solution.  Large a
> third party provider such as google groups, yahoo groups, github,
> sourceforge or savanaha may be an even better solution as they would be
> just a reliable, and they provide a web page were we could collaborate
> on for things like HOWTO's.  We would just have to organise among
> ourselves governance of the list properly.
> 
> Normally I'd suggest we explore these other alternatives.  But we don't
> know when the axe will fall again.  The chief attraction of
> vger.kernel.org seems to be we don't have to organise governance - we
> just hand it over to davem and matti (vger's admins).  So there is no
> mucking around with internal politics - one or more of us just ask them
> to set set up the list.
> 
> So who is in favour of doing this ASAP - like within the next few week
> or so?  If you respond to this email, we can use the archived responses
> as proof to vger.kernel.org's admins there is sufficient interest to
> make it there worth their while.
> 
> > However I think that this list (LARTC) is well known and documented all
> > over the place.  So even if we migrate elsewhere, there will still be
> > people that stumble on to this list.
> 
> Yes, but there is nothing we can do about that.  Stumbling over a dead
> list is not useful, regardless of how easy it is to find.  A working
> list what we need, and that should be our first priority.
> 
> If the person who owns lartc@mailman.ds9a.nl pops up then we can do
> other things that ameliorate "stumble over this list" problem - things
> like putting in email redirects, put notices on web pages and so on.
> But such things are just icing on the cake.  We should not wait to see
> whether we can do it.  Just move the list, and organise the icing later
> if we can.

-- 
Luciano Ruete
Sequre - Sys Admin
Mitre 617, piso 7, of. 1 
+54 261 4254894
Mendoza - Argentina
http://www.sequre.com.ar/

-- 
Luciano Ruete

-- 
Luciano
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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Andrew Burgess]

On 05/04/2011 07:10:01 PM, Russell Stuart wrote:

> A list on vger.kernel.org does seem like a workable solution.  Large a
> third party provider such as google groups, yahoo groups, github,
> sourceforge or savanaha may be an even better solution as they would  
> be
> just a reliable, and they provide a web page were we could collaborate
> on for things like HOWTO's.

kernel.org hosts wikis (and bugzilla) too.
seems like a good choice to me.
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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[João Almeida]

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I just ask again, who is in charge now?

Why is the list awake again?

Not that I'm against a new list, but I propose four things:

1- Know what is going on!
2- Maintain this list for "compatibility" purposes
3- We can create a new one with a more easy address but keep them "tied
together" at least for a while
4- Who is in charge of the web page? I myself would like to add some life to
it... A repo of howtos/confs/scripts would be very nice, IMHO...

Basically, I agree with the new life of the community but why not revamp the
existing one? Lists can be relocated, servers as well...

What is the point of loosing all the work done so far?

Best regards,
     João Almeida

On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 2:52 PM, Andrew Burgess <aab@cichlid.com> wrote:

> On 05/04/2011 07:10:01 PM, Russell Stuart wrote:
>
>  A list on vger.kernel.org does seem like a workable solution.  Large a
>> third party provider such as google groups, yahoo groups, github,
>> sourceforge or savanaha may be an even better solution as they would be
>> just a reliable, and they provide a web page were we could collaborate
>> on for things like HOWTO's.
>>
>
> kernel.org hosts wikis (and bugzilla) too.
> seems like a good choice to me.
>
> _______________________________________________
> LARTC mailing list
> LARTC@mailman.ds9a.nl
> http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
>

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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Adrian Moisey]

Hi

I sort of agree. This list just magically came back to life. Why? Did
someone flip a switch? Who is that person? Will they turn it off
again?

Also, regarding the site, its very static. I think a wiki could
replace it and breath some new life into it.

Adrian

2011/5/5 João Almeida <jpoalmeida@gmail.com>:
> I just ask again, who is in charge now?
> Why is the list awake again?
> Not that I'm against a new list, but I propose four things:
> 1- Know what is going on!
> 2- Maintain this list for "compatibility" purposes
> 3- We can create a new one with a more easy address but keep them "tied
> together" at least for a while
> 4- Who is in charge of the web page? I myself would like to add some life to
> it... A repo of howtos/confs/scripts would be very nice, IMHO...
> Basically, I agree with the new life of the community but why not revamp the
> existing one? Lists can be relocated, servers as well...
> What is the point of loosing all the work done so far?
> Best regards,
>      João Almeida
> On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 2:52 PM, Andrew Burgess <aab@cichlid.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 05/04/2011 07:10:01 PM, Russell Stuart wrote:
>>
>>> A list on vger.kernel.org does seem like a workable solution.  Large a
>>> third party provider such as google groups, yahoo groups, github,
>>> sourceforge or savanaha may be an even better solution as they would be
>>> just a reliable, and they provide a web page were we could collaborate
>>> on for things like HOWTO's.
>>
>> kernel.org hosts wikis (and bugzilla) too.
>> seems like a good choice to me.
>> _______________________________________________
>> LARTC mailing list
>> LARTC@mailman.ds9a.nl
>> http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> LARTC mailing list
> LARTC@mailman.ds9a.nl
> http://mailman.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lartc
>
>
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Re: [LARTC] List fault?

[Yevgeny Kosarzhevsky]

Hi,

has anyone contacted vger.kernel.org about lartc list creation?

Andrew Burgess wrote:
> On 05/04/2011 07:10:01 PM, Russell Stuart wrote:
>
>> A list on vger.kernel.org does seem like a workable solution.  Large a
>> third party provider such as google groups, yahoo groups, github,
>> sourceforge or savanaha may be an even better solution as they would be
>> just a reliable, and they provide a web page were we could collaborate
>> on for things like HOWTO's.
>
> kernel.org hosts wikis (and bugzilla) too.
> seems like a good choice to me.

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