carl9170:5/10 MHz Channel Support on carl9170

carl9170:5/10 MHz Channel Support on carl9170

[C.B. Wang]

I want to know if the ar9170 chip support 5/10 mhz channels.The
datasheet says it supports
802.11j,but the carl9170 driver does not provide support.

Also the radio chip ar9104 has tuning range from 2.3-2.5ghz and
4.9-6.1ghz,but the driver
does not provide any support for these super channels.Isn't the ar9170
chip doesn't support
super channel,or the driver does not implement these features?



                    c.b.wang

Re: carl9170:5/10 MHz Channel Support on carl9170

[Christian Lamparter]

On Tuesday, June 04, 2013 03:20:26 PM C.B. Wang wrote:
> I want to know if the ar9170 chip support 5/10 mhz channels.
Maybe. if you care about it, you'll have to look for clues in
the original vendor driver (otus - was part of the kernel's staging/
directory for < 2.6.39?) and the original vendor firmware 
(ar9170fw - you can find a git-tree @ git.sipsolutions.com).

Anyway, if you need a definitive "yes" or "no", you should
ask Qualcomm Atheros directly. As I can only tell something
about the MAC [which does have a 802.11j Mode. It can be
enabled by setting bit 3 in AR9170_MAC_REG_POWER_STATE_CTRL.]
However, I don't have any information about the PHY/FEM/RF
and BB.
  
> The datasheet says it supports 802.11j, but the carl9170 
> driver does not provide support.
Again, talk to Qualcomm Atheros to find out what needs to be
done in order to support it.

> Also the radio chip ar9104 has tuning range from 2.3-2.5ghz and
> 4.9-6.1ghz,but the driver does not provide any support for these
> super channels.
Some AR9170 devices do indeed support the 4.9 GHz channels
(out of the box). e.g.: 
	Frequencies:
	 * 4920 MHz [-16] (18.0 dBm)
	 * 4940 MHz [-12] (18.0 dBm)
	 * 4960 MHz [-8] (18.0 dBm)
	 * 4980 MHz [-4] (18.0 dBm)
	 * 5040 MHz [8] (18.0 dBm)
	 * 5060 MHz [12] (18.0 dBm)
	 * 5080 MHz [16] (18.0 dBm)

However, the device needs to be calibrated for the frequencies
to use them legally (the Japanese Market). Look in your kernel
logs when the driver is loaded; There should be something like
this:

> ath: EEPROM regdomain: 0x8xyz
> ath: EEPROM indicates we should expect a country code
> ath: doing EEPROM country->regdmn map search
> ath: Country alpha2 being used: JP <--- JaPan

If your country code is not "JP", then you'll have to talk to
the manufacturer.

Regards,
	Chr

Re: carl9170:5/10 MHz Channel Support on carl9170

[C.B. Wang]

Hi

I've read the "otus" vendor driver and found that in the source file
/HalPlus/OTUS_FB50/hpreg.h on
line 1915,the comment says "Temporary discard channel that BW < 20MHz
(5 or 10MHz)   */
                            /*   Our architecture does not implemnt it"
I think either the driver does not implement the 5/10 channels or
worse,the ar9170 chip does
not support 5/10 mhz channel at all.
But 802.11j has 10mhz channel support.To comply with the 802.11j
standard,the chip should
support 10mhz channel width.

I know ar9170 support 4.9ghz channels.But does it also support
non-standard bands like 2.3ghz and 6.0ghz?

Also the ar9170 MAC was indeed designed by ZyDaS berfore the company
was taken over by
Atheros.It has some problems with long distance links.

On 6/5/13, Christian Lamparter <chunkeey@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 04, 2013 03:20:26 PM C.B. Wang wrote:
>> I want to know if the ar9170 chip support 5/10 mhz channels.
> Maybe. if you care about it, you'll have to look for clues in
> the original vendor driver (otus - was part of the kernel's staging/
> directory for < 2.6.39?) and the original vendor firmware
> (ar9170fw - you can find a git-tree @ git.sipsolutions.com).
>
> Anyway, if you need a definitive "yes" or "no", you should
> ask Qualcomm Atheros directly. As I can only tell something
> about the MAC [which does have a 802.11j Mode. It can be
> enabled by setting bit 3 in AR9170_MAC_REG_POWER_STATE_CTRL.]
> However, I don't have any information about the PHY/FEM/RF
> and BB.
>
>> The datasheet says it supports 802.11j, but the carl9170
>> driver does not provide support.
> Again, talk to Qualcomm Atheros to find out what needs to be
> done in order to support it.
>
>> Also the radio chip ar9104 has tuning range from 2.3-2.5ghz and
>> 4.9-6.1ghz,but the driver does not provide any support for these
>> super channels.
> Some AR9170 devices do indeed support the 4.9 GHz channels
> (out of the box). e.g.:
> 	Frequencies:
> 	 * 4920 MHz [-16] (18.0 dBm)
> 	 * 4940 MHz [-12] (18.0 dBm)
> 	 * 4960 MHz [-8] (18.0 dBm)
> 	 * 4980 MHz [-4] (18.0 dBm)
> 	 * 5040 MHz [8] (18.0 dBm)
> 	 * 5060 MHz [12] (18.0 dBm)
> 	 * 5080 MHz [16] (18.0 dBm)
>
> However, the device needs to be calibrated for the frequencies
> to use them legally (the Japanese Market). Look in your kernel
> logs when the driver is loaded; There should be something like
> this:
>
>> ath: EEPROM regdomain: 0x8xyz
>> ath: EEPROM indicates we should expect a country code
>> ath: doing EEPROM country->regdmn map search
>> ath: Country alpha2 being used: JP <--- JaPan
>
> If your country code is not "JP", then you'll have to talk to
> the manufacturer.
>
> Regards,
> 	Chr
>

Re: carl9170:5/10 MHz Channel Support on carl9170

[Adrian Chadd]

I think that the zydas mac doesn't officially support 5/10mhz operation.

I don't know how it's supposed to.

As for the alternate frequencies - it all depends what it's calibrated
for. The PHY and radio support whatever the AR5416/AR9160 do (as
they're the same PHY/radio), but it does depend if the board design
and calibration has been done with those frequencies in mind.

So by default, please, leave them off. :-)



adrian


On 5 June 2013 05:59, C.B. Wang <wtwangcb@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi
>
> I've read the "otus" vendor driver and found that in the source file
> /HalPlus/OTUS_FB50/hpreg.h on
> line 1915,the comment says "Temporary discard channel that BW < 20MHz
> (5 or 10MHz)   */
>                             /*   Our architecture does not implemnt it"
> I think either the driver does not implement the 5/10 channels or
> worse,the ar9170 chip does
> not support 5/10 mhz channel at all.
> But 802.11j has 10mhz channel support.To comply with the 802.11j
> standard,the chip should
> support 10mhz channel width.
>
> I know ar9170 support 4.9ghz channels.But does it also support
> non-standard bands like 2.3ghz and 6.0ghz?
>
> Also the ar9170 MAC was indeed designed by ZyDaS berfore the company
> was taken over by
> Atheros.It has some problems with long distance links.
>
> On 6/5/13, Christian Lamparter <chunkeey@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> On Tuesday, June 04, 2013 03:20:26 PM C.B. Wang wrote:
>>> I want to know if the ar9170 chip support 5/10 mhz channels.
>> Maybe. if you care about it, you'll have to look for clues in
>> the original vendor driver (otus - was part of the kernel's staging/
>> directory for < 2.6.39?) and the original vendor firmware
>> (ar9170fw - you can find a git-tree @ git.sipsolutions.com).
>>
>> Anyway, if you need a definitive "yes" or "no", you should
>> ask Qualcomm Atheros directly. As I can only tell something
>> about the MAC [which does have a 802.11j Mode. It can be
>> enabled by setting bit 3 in AR9170_MAC_REG_POWER_STATE_CTRL.]
>> However, I don't have any information about the PHY/FEM/RF
>> and BB.
>>
>>> The datasheet says it supports 802.11j, but the carl9170
>>> driver does not provide support.
>> Again, talk to Qualcomm Atheros to find out what needs to be
>> done in order to support it.
>>
>>> Also the radio chip ar9104 has tuning range from 2.3-2.5ghz and
>>> 4.9-6.1ghz,but the driver does not provide any support for these
>>> super channels.
>> Some AR9170 devices do indeed support the 4.9 GHz channels
>> (out of the box). e.g.:
>>       Frequencies:
>>        * 4920 MHz [-16] (18.0 dBm)
>>        * 4940 MHz [-12] (18.0 dBm)
>>        * 4960 MHz [-8] (18.0 dBm)
>>        * 4980 MHz [-4] (18.0 dBm)
>>        * 5040 MHz [8] (18.0 dBm)
>>        * 5060 MHz [12] (18.0 dBm)
>>        * 5080 MHz [16] (18.0 dBm)
>>
>> However, the device needs to be calibrated for the frequencies
>> to use them legally (the Japanese Market). Look in your kernel
>> logs when the driver is loaded; There should be something like
>> this:
>>
>>> ath: EEPROM regdomain: 0x8xyz
>>> ath: EEPROM indicates we should expect a country code
>>> ath: doing EEPROM country->regdmn map search
>>> ath: Country alpha2 being used: JP <--- JaPan
>>
>> If your country code is not "JP", then you'll have to talk to
>> the manufacturer.
>>
>> Regards,
>>       Chr
>>
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Re: carl9170:5/10 MHz Channel Support on carl9170

[Christian Lamparter]

Hello Adrian

On Wednesday, June 05, 2013 08:08:14 PM Adrian Chadd wrote:
> I think that the zydas mac doesn't officially support 5/10mhz operation.
Just checked, it looks like the bandwidth control is very similar to ath9k.

The settings is controlled by Bit 3 and 2 in AR9170_PWR_REG_CLOCK_SEL (0x1d4008)
00 <-- default
01 <-- half

There's a new firmware branch for this new feature:
<https://github.com/chunkeey/carl9170fw/tree/halfandquarter>

The patch for the carl9170 driver will come later... Once mac/nl/cfg80211
and userspace have support for the 5/10 MHz channel bandwidth.

So, if you [(Mr.?) Wang] is interested, please help us testing
and integrating the stack patchset into the kernel - NOW -: 
"Add support for 5 and 10 MHz channels" 
<http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-wireless/msg107116.html>

> > I've read the "otus" vendor driver and found that in the source file
> > /HalPlus/OTUS_FB50/hpreg.h on
> > line 1915,the comment says "Temporary discard channel that BW < 20MHz
> > (5 or 10MHz)   */
> >                             /*   Our architecture does not implemnt it"
> > I think either the driver does not implement the 5/10 channels or
> > worse,the ar9170 chip does not support 5/10 mhz channel at all.
I think "architecture" could be just the software. At least an
ath9k spectral analyzer confirmed that at least the PHY can operate
on 10 MHz channels in the 5GHz band.

> > But 802.11j has 10mhz channel support.To comply with the 802.11j
> > standard,the chip should support 10mhz channel width.
Oh, I don't have a 802.11j copy handy, is it a mandatory or optional 
feature? 

> > Also the ar9170 MAC was indeed designed by ZyDaS berfore
> > the company was taken over by Atheros.
Do you know any 5 GHz solution from ZyDaS that sold as 802.11j
compliant?

> > It has some problems with long distance links.
True, but again look at the vendor driver. I think it should
be very easy to implement "set coverage class". The slot time
can be set by "AR9170_MAC_REG_SLOT_TIME" register and the ack
timeout should be in "AR9170_MAC_REG_ACK_EXTENSION". That's
all the information I have. So what are you waiting for ;)

Regards,
	Chr

Re: carl9170:5/10 MHz Channel Support on carl9170

[Adrian Chadd]

Oh cool! I'm glad they included a half/quarter rate clock change bit.

Just make sure you test it with adjacent channel interference; it may
underclock the MAC/PHY but that doesn't necessarily mean that the
analog filter is being changed.


Adrian

On 5 June 2013 14:35, Christian Lamparter <chunkeey@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hello Adrian
>
> On Wednesday, June 05, 2013 08:08:14 PM Adrian Chadd wrote:
>> I think that the zydas mac doesn't officially support 5/10mhz operation.
> Just checked, it looks like the bandwidth control is very similar to ath9k.
>
> The settings is controlled by Bit 3 and 2 in AR9170_PWR_REG_CLOCK_SEL (0x1d4008)
> 00 <-- default
> 01 <-- half
>
> There's a new firmware branch for this new feature:
> <https://github.com/chunkeey/carl9170fw/tree/halfandquarter>
>
> The patch for the carl9170 driver will come later... Once mac/nl/cfg80211
> and userspace have support for the 5/10 MHz channel bandwidth.
>
> So, if you [(Mr.?) Wang] is interested, please help us testing
> and integrating the stack patchset into the kernel - NOW -:
> "Add support for 5 and 10 MHz channels"
> <http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-wireless/msg107116.html>
>
>> > I've read the "otus" vendor driver and found that in the source file
>> > /HalPlus/OTUS_FB50/hpreg.h on
>> > line 1915,the comment says "Temporary discard channel that BW < 20MHz
>> > (5 or 10MHz)   */
>> >                             /*   Our architecture does not implemnt it"
>> > I think either the driver does not implement the 5/10 channels or
>> > worse,the ar9170 chip does not support 5/10 mhz channel at all.
> I think "architecture" could be just the software. At least an
> ath9k spectral analyzer confirmed that at least the PHY can operate
> on 10 MHz channels in the 5GHz band.
>
>> > But 802.11j has 10mhz channel support.To comply with the 802.11j
>> > standard,the chip should support 10mhz channel width.
> Oh, I don't have a 802.11j copy handy, is it a mandatory or optional
> feature?
>
>> > Also the ar9170 MAC was indeed designed by ZyDaS berfore
>> > the company was taken over by Atheros.
> Do you know any 5 GHz solution from ZyDaS that sold as 802.11j
> compliant?
>
>> > It has some problems with long distance links.
> True, but again look at the vendor driver. I think it should
> be very easy to implement "set coverage class". The slot time
> can be set by "AR9170_MAC_REG_SLOT_TIME" register and the ack
> timeout should be in "AR9170_MAC_REG_ACK_EXTENSION". That's
> all the information I have. So what are you waiting for ;)
>
> Regards,
>         Chr

Re: carl9170:5/10 MHz Channel Support on carl9170

[C.B. Wang]

Spectral analysis isn't supported by any Atheros USB chipsets,is it?

The 802.11j standard defines 10mhz operation.I think it is mandatory.
You can get a copy here
http://www.it.iitb.ac.in/~mukesh/dokuwiki/lib/exe/fetch.php?cache=cache&media=mtp:802.11j-2004.pdf

No,I don't know any.Most devices that use ZyDaS chipset are b/g soloution.
It's rare even to see an a/b/g ZyDaS device.

Channel 183(4815mhz),185(4925mhz),187(4935mhz),189(4945mhz) should also
be added to the channel list of carl9170 driver.


On 6/6/13, Adrian Chadd <adrian@freebsd.org> wrote:
> Oh cool! I'm glad they included a half/quarter rate clock change bit.
>
> Just make sure you test it with adjacent channel interference; it may
> underclock the MAC/PHY but that doesn't necessarily mean that the
> analog filter is being changed.
>
>
> Adrian
>
> On 5 June 2013 14:35, Christian Lamparter <chunkeey@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> Hello Adrian
>>
>> On Wednesday, June 05, 2013 08:08:14 PM Adrian Chadd wrote:
>>> I think that the zydas mac doesn't officially support 5/10mhz operation.
>> Just checked, it looks like the bandwidth control is very similar to
>> ath9k.
>>
>> The settings is controlled by Bit 3 and 2 in AR9170_PWR_REG_CLOCK_SEL
>> (0x1d4008)
>> 00 <-- default
>> 01 <-- half
>>
>> There's a new firmware branch for this new feature:
>> <https://github.com/chunkeey/carl9170fw/tree/halfandquarter>
>>
>> The patch for the carl9170 driver will come later... Once mac/nl/cfg80211
>> and userspace have support for the 5/10 MHz channel bandwidth.
>>
>> So, if you [(Mr.?) Wang] is interested, please help us testing
>> and integrating the stack patchset into the kernel - NOW -:
>> "Add support for 5 and 10 MHz channels"
>> <http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-wireless/msg107116.html>
>>
>>> > I've read the "otus" vendor driver and found that in the source file
>>> > /HalPlus/OTUS_FB50/hpreg.h on
>>> > line 1915,the comment says "Temporary discard channel that BW < 20MHz
>>> > (5 or 10MHz)   */
>>> >                             /*   Our architecture does not implemnt
>>> > it"
>>> > I think either the driver does not implement the 5/10 channels or
>>> > worse,the ar9170 chip does not support 5/10 mhz channel at all.
>> I think "architecture" could be just the software. At least an
>> ath9k spectral analyzer confirmed that at least the PHY can operate
>> on 10 MHz channels in the 5GHz band.
>>
>>> > But 802.11j has 10mhz channel support.To comply with the 802.11j
>>> > standard,the chip should support 10mhz channel width.
>> Oh, I don't have a 802.11j copy handy, is it a mandatory or optional
>> feature?
>>
>>> > Also the ar9170 MAC was indeed designed by ZyDaS berfore
>>> > the company was taken over by Atheros.
>> Do you know any 5 GHz solution from ZyDaS that sold as 802.11j
>> compliant?
>>
>>> > It has some problems with long distance links.
>> True, but again look at the vendor driver. I think it should
>> be very easy to implement "set coverage class". The slot time
>> can be set by "AR9170_MAC_REG_SLOT_TIME" register and the ack
>> timeout should be in "AR9170_MAC_REG_ACK_EXTENSION". That's
>> all the information I have. So what are you waiting for ;)
>>
>> Regards,
>>         Chr
>

Re: carl9170:5/10 MHz Channel Support on carl9170

[Oleksij Rempel]

Am 06.06.2013 10:07, schrieb C.B. Wang:
> Spectral analysis isn't supported by any Atheros USB chipsets,is it?

ar7010 devices theoretically should support it.

> The 802.11j standard defines 10mhz operation.I think it is mandatory.
> You can get a copy here
> http://www.it.iitb.ac.in/~mukesh/dokuwiki/lib/exe/fetch.php?cache=cache&media=mtp:802.11j-2004.pdf
>
> No,I don't know any.Most devices that use ZyDaS chipset are b/g soloution.
> It's rare even to see an a/b/g ZyDaS device.
>
> Channel 183(4815mhz),185(4925mhz),187(4935mhz),189(4945mhz) should also
> be added to the channel list of carl9170 driver.
>

Re: carl9170:5/10 MHz Channel Support on carl9170

[C.B. Wang]

>> True, but again look at the vendor driver. I think it should
>> be very easy to implement "set coverage class". The slot time
>> can be set by "AR9170_MAC_REG_SLOT_TIME" register and the ack
>> timeout should be in "AR9170_MAC_REG_ACK_EXTENSION". That's
>> all the information I have. So what are you waiting for

In addition to what you have said above,can we also make longer range
communication
possible by sacrificing data rates and using 5/10 MHz narrow channels
which is Atheros's
extended range(xr) technology?


On 6/6/13, Oleksij Rempel <fishor@gmx.net> wrote:
> Am 06.06.2013 10:07, schrieb C.B. Wang:
>> Spectral analysis isn't supported by any Atheros USB chipsets,is it?
>
> ar7010 devices theoretically should support it.
>
>> The 802.11j standard defines 10mhz operation.I think it is mandatory.
>> You can get a copy here
>> http://www.it.iitb.ac.in/~mukesh/dokuwiki/lib/exe/fetch.php?cache=cache&media=mtp:802.11j-2004.pdf
>>
>> No,I don't know any.Most devices that use ZyDaS chipset are b/g
>> soloution.
>> It's rare even to see an a/b/g ZyDaS device.
>>
>> Channel 183(4815mhz),185(4925mhz),187(4935mhz),189(4945mhz) should also
>> be added to the channel list of carl9170 driver.
>>
>
>
>

Re: carl9170:5/10 MHz Channel Support on carl9170

[Christian Lamparter]

On Thursday, June 06, 2013 10:07:46 AM C.B. Wang wrote:
> Spectral analysis isn't supported by any Atheros USB
> chipsets, is it?
maybe by the ar7010+ar92xy combo. Anyway, if you need it
for your job, then you should help implementing it!

> The 802.11j standard defines 10mhz operation. I think
> it is mandatory. You can get a copy here
> http://www.it.iitb.ac.in/~mukesh/dokuwiki/lib/exe/fetch.php?cache=cache&media=mtp:802.11j-2004.pdf
Can you tell me on what page/chapter? Thanks!

> Channel 183(4815mhz),185(4925mhz),187(4935mhz),189(4945mhz)
> should also be added to the channel list of carl9170 driver.
Hey that's great. Please send us patch then. Testing is not
possible here in Germany, the regdomain doesn't allow it.

Regards,
	Chr

Re: carl9170:5/10 MHz Channel Support on carl9170

[Christian Lamparter]

(Readded ML).

On Thursday, June 06, 2013 02:21:58 PM C.B. Wang wrote:
> > maybe by the ar7010+ar92xy combo
> Yes.The ar9280 and ar9285 all support spectral analysis.Will
> ar9170+ar9104 combo also do the job?
No idea. I don't have the PHY docs, just the MAC.
 
> >Can you tell me on what page/chapter?
> On page 19,chapter 17,it says "The OFDM system also provides a
> “half-clocked” operation using 10 MHz channel spacings with data com-
> munications capabilities of 3, 4.5, 6, 9, 12, 18, 24, and 27 Mbit/s."
> Also on page 31,there's a table describing OFDM PHY characteristics of
> 20MHz and 10MHz channel spacing for 802.11j.
Different page numbers here. So let's just stick to the chapter.

Anyway, If I'm reading it correctly it looks like OF1.7 aka 
"10 MHz Channel spacing" is marked as an "O"ptional feature in A4.8.
The same seems to be true for the 4.9 GHz band (marked as optional
in OF3.12 in this old doc)?! 

So, was this all a bit pointless? Because, as far as I can tell the
driver is 802.11j "compliant" as it is. Therefore let's close the
case with: "al[l|ready] done!".

Regards,
	Chr

Re: carl9170:5/10 MHz Channel Support on carl9170

[C.B. Wang]

On 6/9/13, Christian Lamparter <chunkeey@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Please, you have to include the linux-wireless mailing list
> in the CC if you want an answer to technical questions.
> Remember, CARL9170 is a project of the linux community and
> it depends heavily on participation and not backroom chatter.
>
> About the docs: Like many other vendors, Qualcomm Atheros
> only releases docs to open-source devs after they have
> signed a NDA (yep, we all signed one). Of course, the
> situation is different if you need the information for
> non-open-source projects. But, you then you also have to
> ask Qualcomm Atheros.
>
> Regards,
> 	Chr
>

I'm sorry.I'll include it in the CC.

I'm just interested in the ar9170 chipset personally.It's for personal use only.
To tell you the truth,I'm just a college student who wants to learn more about
various wireless chipset details.

carl9170:5/10 MHz Channel Support on carl9170

[C.B. Wang]

I want to know if the ar9170 chip support 5/10 mhz channels.The
datasheet says it supports
802.11j,but the carl9170 driver does not provide support.

Also the radio chip ar9104 has tuning range from 2.3-2.5ghz and
4.9-6.1ghz,but the driver
does not provide any support for these super channels.Isn't the ar9170
chip doesn't support
super channel,or the driver does not implement these features?



                    c.b.wang

Re: carl9170:5/10 MHz Channel Support on carl9170

[Simon Wunderlich]

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On Tue, Jun 04, 2013 at 09:13:27PM +0800, C.B. Wang wrote:
> I want to know if the ar9170 chip support 5/10 mhz channels.The
> datasheet says it supports
> 802.11j,but the carl9170 driver does not provide support.

I don't know if the carl9170 or the chip really supports that. Mac80211
currently does not support 5/10 MHz, but there is currently a patchset
pending to add this feature. If you want, you can apply that and play
with it.

It would still require to patch the carl9170 driver, the patchset
currently only adds support for ath5k/ath9k. Also the "super" channels
would have to be added.

Cheers,
	Simon

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