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From: Stephen Warren <swarren@wwwdotorg.org>
To: Tomi Valkeinen <tomi.valkeinen-l0cyMroinI0@public.gmane.org>,
	Dave Airlie <airlied-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>,
	Laurent Pinchart
	<laurent.pinchart-ryLnwIuWjnjg/C1BVhZhaw@public.gmane.org>
Cc: Thierry Reding
	<thierry.reding-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>,
	Laurent Pinchart
	<laurent.pinchart+renesas-ryLnwIuWjnjg/C1BVhZhaw@public.gmane.org>,
	Rob Herring <rob.herring-bsGFqQB8/DxBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>,
	Pawel Moll <pawel.moll-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>,
	Mark Rutland <mark.rutland-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>,
	Ian Campbell
	<ijc+devicetree-KcIKpvwj1kUDXYZnReoRVg@public.gmane.org>,
	devicetree-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	Linux Fbdev development list
	<linux-fbdev-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [RFR 2/2] drm/panel: Add simple panel support
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 22:01:20 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <526452B0.6080206@wwwdotorg.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <525FA4B0.8060504-l0cyMroinI0@public.gmane.org>

On 10/17/2013 09:49 AM, Tomi Valkeinen wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 17/10/13 11:28, Dave Airlie wrote:
>>> 
>>> My biggest concern here is that this will not be compatible
>>> with the CDF DT bindings. They're not complete yet, but they
>>> will require connections between entities to be described in
>>> DT, in a way very similar (or actually identical) to the V4L2
>>> DT bindings, documented in 
>>> Documentation/devicetree/bindings/media/video-interfaces.txt.
>>> Could you have a look at that ? Please ignore all optional
>>> properties beside remote-endpoint, as they're V4L2 specific.
>>> 
>>> I also plan to specify video bus parameters in DT for CDF, but
>>> this hasn't been finalized yet.
>>> 
>> 
>> While I understand this, I don't see why CDF can't enhance these 
>> bindings if it has requirements > than they have without
>> disturbing the panel ones,
>> 
>> is DT really that inflexible?
>> 
>> It seems that have a simple description for basic panels like
>> Thierry wants to support, that can be enhanced for the other
>> cases in the future should suffice, I really don't like blocking
>> stuff that makes things work on the chance of something that
>> isn't upstream yet, its sets a bad precedent, its also breaks the
>> perfect is the enemy of good rule
> 
> Just my opinion, but yes, DT is that inflexible.

I don't really agree.

A specific DT binding is supposed to be an ABI; something that can
only be changed in a backwards-compatible way (perhaps only in a
forwards-compatible way too).

However, I see no reason you can't have a simple DT binding now, and
create a more complex DT binding later. Both can exist (be defined).
Now, because DT is an ABI, we can't remove kernel support for the old
binding.

> DT bindings are like a syscall. Once they are there, you need to
> support them forever. That support can, of course, include some
> kind of DT data converters or such, that try to convert old
> bindings to new bindings at kernel boot.

I don't think we need a converter for that; just leave in both the old
and new parser/driver and treat them as different things. There's no
reason that a new kernel must provide new features when given an old
DT written to the old binding, and hence a new kernel can just treat
the old DT with the old code.

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Stephen Warren <swarren-3lzwWm7+Weoh9ZMKESR00Q@public.gmane.org>
To: Tomi Valkeinen <tomi.valkeinen-l0cyMroinI0@public.gmane.org>,
	Dave Airlie <airlied-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>,
	Laurent Pinchart
	<laurent.pinchart-ryLnwIuWjnjg/C1BVhZhaw@public.gmane.org>
Cc: Thierry Reding
	<thierry.reding-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>,
	Laurent Pinchart
	<laurent.pinchart+renesas-ryLnwIuWjnjg/C1BVhZhaw@public.gmane.org>,
	Rob Herring <rob.herring-bsGFqQB8/DxBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>,
	Pawel Moll <pawel.moll-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>,
	Mark Rutland <mark.rutland-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>,
	Ian Campbell
	<ijc+devicetree-KcIKpvwj1kUDXYZnReoRVg@public.gmane.org>,
	devicetree-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	Linux Fbdev development list
	<linux-fbdev-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [RFR 2/2] drm/panel: Add simple panel support
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 23:01:20 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <526452B0.6080206@wwwdotorg.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <525FA4B0.8060504-l0cyMroinI0@public.gmane.org>

On 10/17/2013 09:49 AM, Tomi Valkeinen wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 17/10/13 11:28, Dave Airlie wrote:
>>> 
>>> My biggest concern here is that this will not be compatible
>>> with the CDF DT bindings. They're not complete yet, but they
>>> will require connections between entities to be described in
>>> DT, in a way very similar (or actually identical) to the V4L2
>>> DT bindings, documented in 
>>> Documentation/devicetree/bindings/media/video-interfaces.txt.
>>> Could you have a look at that ? Please ignore all optional
>>> properties beside remote-endpoint, as they're V4L2 specific.
>>> 
>>> I also plan to specify video bus parameters in DT for CDF, but
>>> this hasn't been finalized yet.
>>> 
>> 
>> While I understand this, I don't see why CDF can't enhance these 
>> bindings if it has requirements > than they have without
>> disturbing the panel ones,
>> 
>> is DT really that inflexible?
>> 
>> It seems that have a simple description for basic panels like
>> Thierry wants to support, that can be enhanced for the other
>> cases in the future should suffice, I really don't like blocking
>> stuff that makes things work on the chance of something that
>> isn't upstream yet, its sets a bad precedent, its also breaks the
>> perfect is the enemy of good rule
> 
> Just my opinion, but yes, DT is that inflexible.

I don't really agree.

A specific DT binding is supposed to be an ABI; something that can
only be changed in a backwards-compatible way (perhaps only in a
forwards-compatible way too).

However, I see no reason you can't have a simple DT binding now, and
create a more complex DT binding later. Both can exist (be defined).
Now, because DT is an ABI, we can't remove kernel support for the old
binding.

> DT bindings are like a syscall. Once they are there, you need to
> support them forever. That support can, of course, include some
> kind of DT data converters or such, that try to convert old
> bindings to new bindings at kernel boot.

I don't think we need a converter for that; just leave in both the old
and new parser/driver and treat them as different things. There's no
reason that a new kernel must provide new features when given an old
DT written to the old binding, and hence a new kernel can just treat
the old DT with the old code.
--
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  parent reply	other threads:[~2013-10-20 22:01 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 97+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2013-10-16 18:25 [RFR 0/2] DRM display panel support Thierry Reding
2013-10-16 18:25 ` Thierry Reding
     [not found] ` <1381947912-11741-1-git-send-email-treding-DDmLM1+adcrQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-16 18:25   ` [RFR 1/2] drm: Add " Thierry Reding
2013-10-16 18:25     ` Thierry Reding
2013-10-16 18:25   ` [RFR 2/2] drm/panel: Add simple " Thierry Reding
2013-10-16 18:25     ` Thierry Reding
     [not found]     ` <1381947912-11741-3-git-send-email-treding-DDmLM1+adcrQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-17  0:47       ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-17  0:47         ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-17  8:28         ` Dave Airlie
2013-10-17  8:28           ` Dave Airlie
     [not found]           ` <CAPM=9tzU36cwcM0pH0J_Vgc6UOj5MHdVNDvn3wpGNuihbMqdQQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-17  8:49             ` Tomi Valkeinen
2013-10-17  8:49               ` Tomi Valkeinen
     [not found]               ` <525FA4B0.8060504-l0cyMroinI0@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-17  9:16                 ` Thierry Reding
2013-10-17  9:16                   ` Thierry Reding
     [not found]                   ` <20131017091614.GC2502-AwZRO8vwLAwmlAP/+Wk3EA@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-17  9:52                     ` Tomi Valkeinen
2013-10-17  9:52                       ` Tomi Valkeinen
     [not found]                       ` <525FB368.6020003-l0cyMroinI0@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-17 10:48                         ` Thierry Reding
2013-10-17 10:48                           ` Thierry Reding
     [not found]                           ` <20131017104856.GA10993-AwZRO8vwLAwmlAP/+Wk3EA@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-17 11:07                             ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-17 11:07                               ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-20 22:07                               ` Stephen Warren
2013-10-20 22:07                                 ` Stephen Warren
     [not found]                                 ` <52645428.9080607-3lzwWm7+Weoh9ZMKESR00Q@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-24 11:20                                   ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-24 11:20                                     ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-24 22:06                                     ` Stephen Warren
2013-10-24 22:06                                       ` Stephen Warren
     [not found]                                       ` <526999DA.7080409-3lzwWm7+Weoh9ZMKESR00Q@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-25  8:13                                         ` Thierry Reding
2013-10-25  8:13                                           ` Thierry Reding
     [not found]                                           ` <20131025081314.GC19622-AwZRO8vwLAwmlAP/+Wk3EA@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-25 13:47                                             ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-25 13:47                                               ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-25 14:10                                               ` Thierry Reding
2013-10-25 14:10                                                 ` Thierry Reding
     [not found]                                                 ` <20131025141029.GD1551-AwZRO8vwLAwmlAP/+Wk3EA@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-25 14:22                                                   ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-25 14:22                                                     ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-25 11:33                                         ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-25 11:33                                           ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-25 12:29                                           ` Thierry Reding
2013-10-25 12:29                                             ` Thierry Reding
     [not found]                                             ` <20131025122925.GA24720-AwZRO8vwLAwmlAP/+Wk3EA@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-25 13:49                                               ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-25 13:49                                                 ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-25 15:29                                           ` Stephen Warren
2013-10-25 15:29                                             ` Stephen Warren
2013-10-17 11:21                             ` Tomi Valkeinen
2013-10-17 11:21                               ` Tomi Valkeinen
2013-10-20 22:01                 ` Stephen Warren [this message]
2013-10-20 22:01                   ` Stephen Warren
2013-10-17  8:53         ` Thierry Reding
2013-10-17  8:53           ` Thierry Reding
     [not found]           ` <20131017085342.GB2502-AwZRO8vwLAwmlAP/+Wk3EA@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-17 10:22             ` Tomi Valkeinen
2013-10-17 10:22               ` Tomi Valkeinen
     [not found]               ` <525FBA5D.9000001-l0cyMroinI0@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-17 11:05                 ` Thierry Reding
2013-10-17 11:05                   ` Thierry Reding
     [not found]                   ` <20131017110517.GC10993-AwZRO8vwLAwmlAP/+Wk3EA@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-17 11:15                     ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-17 11:15                       ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-17 12:06                       ` Thierry Reding
2013-10-17 12:06                         ` Thierry Reding
     [not found]                         ` <20131017120646.GE10993-AwZRO8vwLAwmlAP/+Wk3EA@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-17 12:23                           ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-17 12:23                             ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-17 12:55                             ` Thierry Reding
2013-10-17 12:55                               ` Thierry Reding
2013-10-17 11:50                     ` Tomi Valkeinen
2013-10-17 11:50                       ` Tomi Valkeinen
     [not found]                       ` <525FCF07.6070006-l0cyMroinI0@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-17 12:12                         ` Thierry Reding
2013-10-17 12:12                           ` Thierry Reding
2013-10-17 11:02             ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-17 11:02               ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-17 11:35               ` Tomi Valkeinen
2013-10-17 11:35                 ` Tomi Valkeinen
     [not found]                 ` <525FCB95.6070401-l0cyMroinI0@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-17 11:51                   ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-17 11:51                     ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-17 11:59                     ` Tomi Valkeinen
2013-10-17 11:59                       ` Tomi Valkeinen
     [not found]                       ` <525FD12D.3000200-l0cyMroinI0@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-17 12:17                         ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-17 12:17                           ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-17 12:32                           ` Tomi Valkeinen
2013-10-17 12:32                             ` Tomi Valkeinen
     [not found]                             ` <525FD8DD.3090509-l0cyMroinI0@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-20 19:29                               ` Sylwester Nawrocki
2013-10-20 19:29                                 ` Sylwester Nawrocki
2013-10-24 10:40                             ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-24 10:40                               ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-24 10:52                               ` Tomi Valkeinen
2013-10-24 10:52                                 ` Tomi Valkeinen
2013-10-24 10:52                                 ` Tomi Valkeinen
2013-10-25 10:54                                 ` Sylwester Nawrocki
2013-10-25 10:54                                   ` Sylwester Nawrocki
2013-10-17 11:41               ` Thierry Reding
2013-10-17 11:41                 ` Thierry Reding
     [not found]                 ` <20131017114139.GD10993-AwZRO8vwLAwmlAP/+Wk3EA@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-17 12:14                   ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-17 12:14                     ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-17 12:46                     ` Thierry Reding
2013-10-17 12:46                       ` Thierry Reding
     [not found]                       ` <20131017124619.GG10993-AwZRO8vwLAwmlAP/+Wk3EA@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-24 11:05                         ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-24 11:05                           ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-24 11:48                           ` Thierry Reding
2013-10-24 11:48                             ` Thierry Reding
     [not found]                             ` <20131024114823.GC11296-AwZRO8vwLAwmlAP/+Wk3EA@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-25 11:27                               ` Laurent Pinchart
2013-10-25 11:27                                 ` Laurent Pinchart

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