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From: Daniel Mack <daniel-cYrQPVfZoowdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org>
To: "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)"
	<mtk.manpages-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman
	<gregkh-hQyY1W1yCW8ekmWlsbkhG0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org>,
	arnd-r2nGTMty4D4@public.gmane.org,
	ebiederm-aS9lmoZGLiVWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org,
	gnomes-qBU/x9rampVanCEyBjwyrvXRex20P6io@public.gmane.org,
	teg-B22kvLQNl6c@public.gmane.org,
	jkosina-AlSwsSmVLrQ@public.gmane.org,
	luto-kltTT9wpgjJwATOyAt5JVQ@public.gmane.org,
	linux-api-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	linux-kernel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org
Cc: daniel-cYrQPVfZooxQFI55V6+gNQ@public.gmane.org,
	dh.herrmann-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org,
	tixxdz-Umm1ozX2/EEdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org,
	Johannes Stezenbach <js-FF7aIK3TAVNeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 01/13] kdbus: add documentation
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 19:23:04 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <54BE9D08.7010804@zonque.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <54BE5DC8.70706-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>

On 01/20/2015 02:53 PM, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote:
> This is an enormous and complex API. Why is the API ioctl() based,
> rather than system-call-based? Have we learned nothing from the hydra
> that the futex() multiplexing syscall became? (And kdbus is an order
> of magnitude more complex, by the look of things.) At the very least,
> a *good* justification of why the API is ioctl()-based should be part
> of this documentation file.

I think the simplest reason is because we want to be able to build kdbus
as a module. It's rather an optional driver than a core kernel feature.
IMO, kernel primitives should be syscalls, but kdbus is not a primitive
but an elaborate subsystem.

Also, the context the kdbus commands operate on originate from a
mountable special-purpose file system. Hence, we decided not to use a
global kernel interface but specific ioctls on the nodes exposed by kdbusfs.


Thanks,
Daniel

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Daniel Mack <daniel@zonque.org>
To: "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	arnd@arndb.de, ebiederm@xmission.com, gnomes@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk,
	teg@jklm.no, jkosina@suse.cz, luto@amacapital.net,
	linux-api@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Cc: daniel@zonque.or, dh.herrmann@gmail.com, tixxdz@opendz.org,
	Johannes Stezenbach <js@sig21.net>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 01/13] kdbus: add documentation
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 19:23:04 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <54BE9D08.7010804@zonque.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <54BE5DC8.70706@gmail.com>

On 01/20/2015 02:53 PM, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote:
> This is an enormous and complex API. Why is the API ioctl() based,
> rather than system-call-based? Have we learned nothing from the hydra
> that the futex() multiplexing syscall became? (And kdbus is an order
> of magnitude more complex, by the look of things.) At the very least,
> a *good* justification of why the API is ioctl()-based should be part
> of this documentation file.

I think the simplest reason is because we want to be able to build kdbus
as a module. It's rather an optional driver than a core kernel feature.
IMO, kernel primitives should be syscalls, but kdbus is not a primitive
but an elaborate subsystem.

Also, the context the kdbus commands operate on originate from a
mountable special-purpose file system. Hence, we decided not to use a
global kernel interface but specific ioctls on the nodes exposed by kdbusfs.


Thanks,
Daniel


  parent reply	other threads:[~2015-01-20 18:23 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 143+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-01-16 19:16 [PATCH v3 00/13] Add kdbus implementation Greg Kroah-Hartman
2015-01-16 19:16 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2015-01-16 19:16 ` [PATCH 01/13] kdbus: add documentation Greg Kroah-Hartman
     [not found]   ` <1421435777-25306-2-git-send-email-gregkh-hQyY1W1yCW8ekmWlsbkhG0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-20 13:53     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-01-20 13:53       ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
     [not found]       ` <54BE5DC8.70706-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-20 14:31         ` David Herrmann
2015-01-20 14:31           ` David Herrmann
     [not found]           ` <CANq1E4SjfZOKqTsdkt519vKc1Poeah5McVJBb_spdHjbKv4=7g-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-20 14:42             ` Josh Boyer
2015-01-20 14:42               ` Josh Boyer
     [not found]               ` <CA+5PVA46wVa-L9K1zgHzt=Fwn6YFBYhxJUjiozSH4XBY03WMVw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-20 14:53                 ` Djalal Harouni
2015-01-20 14:53                   ` Djalal Harouni
2015-01-20 16:08                   ` Johannes Stezenbach
     [not found]                     ` <20150120160842.GA9474-FF7aIK3TAVNeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-20 17:00                       ` David Herrmann
2015-01-20 17:00                         ` David Herrmann
     [not found]                         ` <CANq1E4Q9m7JRXNYFY4okh3brM-kHVoVGOdF_SWjNoNURX930HQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-20 22:00                           ` Johannes Stezenbach
2015-01-20 22:00                             ` Johannes Stezenbach
2015-01-21 10:28             ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-01-21 10:28               ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-01-20 18:23         ` Daniel Mack [this message]
2015-01-20 18:23           ` Daniel Mack
     [not found]           ` <54BE9D08.7010804-cYrQPVfZoowdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-21 10:32             ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-01-21 10:32               ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
     [not found]               ` <54BF805B.4000609-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-21 15:19                 ` Theodore Ts'o
2015-01-21 15:19                   ` Theodore Ts'o
2015-01-21 16:58                 ` Daniel Mack
2015-01-21 16:58                   ` Daniel Mack
     [not found]                   ` <54BFDAAA.50203-cYrQPVfZoowdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-22 10:18                     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-01-22 10:18                       ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
     [not found]                       ` <54C0CE8A.5080805-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-22 13:46                         ` David Herrmann
2015-01-22 13:46                           ` David Herrmann
2015-01-22 14:49                           ` Austin S Hemmelgarn
2015-01-23 16:08                             ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
     [not found]                               ` <20150123160854.GA5210-U8xfFu+wG4EAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-26 14:46                                 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-01-26 14:46                                   ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
     [not found]                                   ` <54C65346.5070504-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-27 15:05                                     ` David Herrmann
2015-01-27 15:05                                       ` David Herrmann
     [not found]                                       ` <CANq1E4SkHhs1pWUe-TzG7bzk1M-Q++mB2vmQGuYx0RMF53wg4Q-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-27 16:03                                         ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-01-27 16:03                                           ` Andy Lutomirski
     [not found]                                           ` <CALCETrU1O6LjhrXSH2aXWFt2WGh=ssrq4K9HD10f_Z55iT=Otw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-29  8:53                                             ` Daniel Mack
2015-01-29  8:53                                               ` Daniel Mack
2015-01-29 11:25                                               ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-01-29 11:42                                                 ` Daniel Mack
2015-01-29 12:09                                                   ` Andy Lutomirski
     [not found]                                                     ` <CALCETrXD41=ohFSkCmBD8zPHFVUtr49QXMhYnChAxqQtmUjJYw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2015-02-02  9:34                                                       ` Daniel Mack
2015-02-02  9:34                                                         ` Daniel Mack
     [not found]                                                         ` <54CF44B9.8000005-cYrQPVfZoowdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org>
2015-02-02 20:12                                                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-02-02 20:12                                                             ` Andy Lutomirski
     [not found]                                                             ` <CALCETrUh1Mse4CBQ4bfkJf+ew=kdpn46hMLS2QafLhfRTzQoBQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2015-02-03 10:09                                                               ` Daniel Mack
2015-02-03 10:09                                                                 ` Daniel Mack
     [not found]                                                                 ` <54D09E6B.2020903-cYrQPVfZoowdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org>
2015-02-04  0:41                                                                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-02-04  0:41                                                                     ` Andy Lutomirski
     [not found]                                                                     ` <CALCETrV_q9Y4OWC6fA78WsD+XFhsdGHrqH6OK-hc=Vvj2F5C5w-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2015-02-04  2:47                                                                       ` Eric W. Biederman
2015-02-04  2:47                                                                         ` Eric W. Biederman
     [not found]                                                                         ` <87siemgzoo.fsf-JOvCrm2gF+uungPnsOpG7nhyD016LWXt@public.gmane.org>
2015-02-04  3:14                                                                           ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2015-02-04  3:14                                                                             ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
     [not found]                                                                             ` <20150204031437.GB32207-U8xfFu+wG4EAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2015-02-04  6:30                                                                               ` Eric W. Biederman
2015-02-04  6:30                                                                                 ` Eric W. Biederman
2015-02-04 23:03                                                                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-02-04 23:03                                                                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-02-05  0:16                                                                     ` David Herrmann
     [not found]                                                                       ` <CANq1E4ShseFuTp0wPrHM9mFmgA-y9Kqz1m0-FmU9qALuxQ8Qvg-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2015-02-08 16:54                                                                         ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-02-08 16:54                                                                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-01-27 18:03                                         ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-01-27 18:03                                           ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
     [not found]                           ` <CANq1E4S=3qNw599L85uj-8aXwxeV+mcurB_Nu_rHH8opAeePjw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-23 11:47                             ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-01-23 11:47                               ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-01-23 15:54                         ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2015-01-23 15:54                           ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
     [not found]                           ` <20150123155402.GB2159-U8xfFu+wG4EAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-26 14:42                             ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-01-26 14:42                               ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-01-26 15:26                               ` Tom Gundersen
     [not found]                                 ` <CAG-2HqUCZjc4Ucc-L21uG6e-di4UcLJAT5mW_-5-c-uqmoJyzA-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-26 16:44                                   ` christoph Hellwig
2015-01-26 16:44                                     ` christoph Hellwig
2015-01-26 16:45                                 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-01-27 15:23                                   ` David Herrmann
2015-01-27 17:53                                     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
     [not found]                                       ` <54C7D0A3.4000900-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-27 18:14                                         ` Daniel Mack
2015-01-27 18:14                                           ` Daniel Mack
2015-01-28 10:46                                           ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-01-20 13:58     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-01-20 13:58       ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-01-20 17:50       ` Daniel Mack
     [not found]         ` <54BE957A.60305-cYrQPVfZoowdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-21  8:57           ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-01-21  8:57             ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-01-21  9:07             ` Daniel Mack
     [not found]       ` <54BE5F1F.8070703-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-21  9:07         ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-01-21  9:07           ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
     [not found]           ` <54BF6C67.7090909-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-21  9:12             ` Daniel Mack
2015-01-21  9:12               ` Daniel Mack
2015-01-23  6:28     ` Ahmed S. Darwish
2015-01-23  6:28       ` Ahmed S. Darwish
2015-01-23 13:19       ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
     [not found]         ` <20150123131946.GA26302-U8xfFu+wG4EAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-23 13:29           ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2015-01-23 13:29             ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2015-01-25  3:30           ` Ahmed S. Darwish
2015-01-25  3:30             ` Ahmed S. Darwish
2015-01-16 19:16 ` [PATCH 02/13] kdbus: add header file Greg Kroah-Hartman
2015-01-16 19:16 ` [PATCH 04/13] kdbus: add connection pool implementation Greg Kroah-Hartman
2015-01-16 19:16 ` [PATCH 06/13] kdbus: add node and filesystem implementation Greg Kroah-Hartman
2015-01-16 19:16 ` [PATCH 07/13] kdbus: add code to gather metadata Greg Kroah-Hartman
2015-01-16 19:16 ` [PATCH 08/13] kdbus: add code for notifications and matches Greg Kroah-Hartman
2015-01-16 19:16 ` [PATCH 10/13] kdbus: add name registry implementation Greg Kroah-Hartman
2015-01-16 19:16 ` [PATCH 13/13] kdbus: add selftests Greg Kroah-Hartman
     [not found] ` <1421435777-25306-1-git-send-email-gregkh-hQyY1W1yCW8ekmWlsbkhG0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-16 19:16   ` [PATCH 03/13] kdbus: add driver skeleton, ioctl entry points and utility functions Greg Kroah-Hartman
2015-01-16 19:16     ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2015-01-16 19:16   ` [PATCH 05/13] kdbus: add connection, queue handling and message validation code Greg Kroah-Hartman
2015-01-16 19:16     ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2015-01-16 19:16   ` [PATCH 09/13] kdbus: add code for buses, domains and endpoints Greg Kroah-Hartman
2015-01-16 19:16     ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2015-01-16 19:16   ` [PATCH 11/13] kdbus: add policy database implementation Greg Kroah-Hartman
2015-01-16 19:16     ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2015-01-16 19:16   ` [PATCH 12/13] kdbus: add Makefile, Kconfig and MAINTAINERS entry Greg Kroah-Hartman
2015-01-16 19:16     ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2015-01-16 22:07   ` [PATCH v3 00/13] Add kdbus implementation Josh Boyer
2015-01-16 22:07     ` Josh Boyer
2015-01-16 22:18     ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
     [not found]       ` <20150116221824.GA512-U8xfFu+wG4EAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-17  0:26         ` Daniel Mack
2015-01-17  0:26           ` Daniel Mack
     [not found]           ` <54B9AC3E.9070105-cYrQPVfZoowdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-17  0:41             ` Josh Boyer
2015-01-17  0:41               ` Josh Boyer
2015-01-19 18:06   ` Johannes Stezenbach
2015-01-19 18:06     ` Johannes Stezenbach
2015-01-19 18:38     ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
     [not found]       ` <20150119183806.GA8479-U8xfFu+wG4EAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-19 20:19         ` Johannes Stezenbach
2015-01-19 20:19           ` Johannes Stezenbach
2015-01-19 20:31           ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
     [not found]             ` <20150119203155.GA15441-U8xfFu+wG4EAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-19 23:38               ` Johannes Stezenbach
2015-01-19 23:38                 ` Johannes Stezenbach
     [not found]                 ` <20150119233812.GA1874-FF7aIK3TAVNeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-20  1:13                   ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2015-01-20  1:13                     ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2015-01-20 10:57                     ` Johannes Stezenbach
     [not found]                       ` <20150120105712.GA6260-FF7aIK3TAVNeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-20 11:26                         ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2015-01-20 11:26                           ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
     [not found]                           ` <20150120112609.GA17198-U8xfFu+wG4EAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-20 13:24                             ` Johannes Stezenbach
2015-01-20 13:24                               ` Johannes Stezenbach
2015-01-20 14:12                               ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
     [not found]                     ` <20150120011359.GE865-U8xfFu+wG4EAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-26 21:32                       ` One Thousand Gnomes
2015-01-26 21:32                         ` One Thousand Gnomes
2015-01-19 18:33   ` Johannes Stezenbach
2015-01-19 18:33     ` Johannes Stezenbach
2015-01-20 14:05   ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-01-20 14:05     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-01-20 14:15 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)

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