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From: Sagi Grimberg <sagig@dev.mellanox.co.il>
To: Chuck Lever <chuck.lever@oracle.com>,
	linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 07/12] xprtrdma: Don't provide a reply chunk when expecting a short reply
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 17:58:36 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <55A2809C.7020106@dev.mellanox.co.il> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20150709204246.26247.10367.stgit@manet.1015granger.net>

On 7/9/2015 11:42 PM, Chuck Lever wrote:
> Currently Linux always offers a reply chunk, even for small replies
> (unless a read or write list is needed for the RPC operation).
>
> A comment in rpcrdma_marshal_req() reads:
>
>> Currently we try to not actually use read inline.
>> Reply chunks have the desirable property that
>> they land, packed, directly in the target buffers
>> without headers, so they require no fixup. The
>> additional RDMA Write op sends the same amount
>> of data, streams on-the-wire and adds no overhead
>> on receive. Therefore, we request a reply chunk
>> for non-writes wherever feasible and efficient.
>
> This considers only the network bandwidth cost of sending the RPC
> reply. For replies which are only a few dozen bytes, this is
> typically not a good trade-off.
>
> If the server chooses to return the reply inline:
>
>   - The client has registered and invalidated a memory region to
>     catch the reply, which is then not used
>
> If the server chooses to use the reply chunk:
>
>   - The server sends a few bytes using a heavyweight RDMA WRITE for
>     operation. The entire RPC reply is conveyed in two RDMA
>     operations (WRITE_ONLY, SEND) instead of one.

Pipelined WRITE+SEND operations are hardly an overhead compared to
copying chunks of data.

>
> Note that both the server and client have to prepare or copy the
> reply data anyway to construct these replies. There's no benefit to
> using an RDMA transfer since the host CPU has to be involved.

I think that preparation (posting 1 or 2 WQEs) and copying
chunks of data of say 8K-16K might be different.

I understand that you probably see better performance scaling. But this
might be HW dependent. Also, this might backfire on you if your
configuration is one-to-many. Then, data copy CPU cycles might become
more expensive.

I don't really know what is better, but just thought I'd present
another side to this.

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Sagi Grimberg <sagig-LDSdmyG8hGV8YrgS2mwiifqBs+8SCbDb@public.gmane.org>
To: Chuck Lever <chuck.lever-QHcLZuEGTsvQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>,
	linux-rdma-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	linux-nfs-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 07/12] xprtrdma: Don't provide a reply chunk when expecting a short reply
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 17:58:36 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <55A2809C.7020106@dev.mellanox.co.il> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20150709204246.26247.10367.stgit-FYjufvaPoItvLzlybtyyYzGyq/o6K9yX@public.gmane.org>

On 7/9/2015 11:42 PM, Chuck Lever wrote:
> Currently Linux always offers a reply chunk, even for small replies
> (unless a read or write list is needed for the RPC operation).
>
> A comment in rpcrdma_marshal_req() reads:
>
>> Currently we try to not actually use read inline.
>> Reply chunks have the desirable property that
>> they land, packed, directly in the target buffers
>> without headers, so they require no fixup. The
>> additional RDMA Write op sends the same amount
>> of data, streams on-the-wire and adds no overhead
>> on receive. Therefore, we request a reply chunk
>> for non-writes wherever feasible and efficient.
>
> This considers only the network bandwidth cost of sending the RPC
> reply. For replies which are only a few dozen bytes, this is
> typically not a good trade-off.
>
> If the server chooses to return the reply inline:
>
>   - The client has registered and invalidated a memory region to
>     catch the reply, which is then not used
>
> If the server chooses to use the reply chunk:
>
>   - The server sends a few bytes using a heavyweight RDMA WRITE for
>     operation. The entire RPC reply is conveyed in two RDMA
>     operations (WRITE_ONLY, SEND) instead of one.

Pipelined WRITE+SEND operations are hardly an overhead compared to
copying chunks of data.

>
> Note that both the server and client have to prepare or copy the
> reply data anyway to construct these replies. There's no benefit to
> using an RDMA transfer since the host CPU has to be involved.

I think that preparation (posting 1 or 2 WQEs) and copying
chunks of data of say 8K-16K might be different.

I understand that you probably see better performance scaling. But this
might be HW dependent. Also, this might backfire on you if your
configuration is one-to-many. Then, data copy CPU cycles might become
more expensive.

I don't really know what is better, but just thought I'd present
another side to this.
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  reply	other threads:[~2015-07-12 14:59 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 92+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-07-09 20:41 [PATCH v1 00/12] NFS/RDMA client side for Linux 4.3 Chuck Lever
2015-07-09 20:41 ` Chuck Lever
2015-07-09 20:41 ` [PATCH v1 01/12] xprtrdma: Make xprt_setup_rdma() agnostic to family of server address Chuck Lever
2015-07-09 20:41   ` Chuck Lever
2015-07-09 20:41 ` [PATCH v1 02/12] xprtrdma: Raise maximum payload size to one megabyte Chuck Lever
2015-07-09 20:41   ` Chuck Lever
2015-07-10 10:25   ` Devesh Sharma
2015-07-10 10:25     ` Devesh Sharma
2015-07-10 19:21   ` Anna Schumaker
2015-07-10 19:21     ` Anna Schumaker
2015-07-10 19:33     ` Chuck Lever
2015-07-10 19:33       ` Chuck Lever
2015-07-10 19:41       ` Anna Schumaker
2015-07-10 19:41         ` Anna Schumaker
2015-07-12 14:31   ` Sagi Grimberg
2015-07-12 14:31     ` Sagi Grimberg
2015-07-09 20:42 ` [PATCH v1 03/12] xprtrdma: Increase default credit limit Chuck Lever
2015-07-09 20:42   ` Chuck Lever
2015-07-10 10:45   ` Devesh Sharma
2015-07-10 10:45     ` Devesh Sharma
2015-07-10 14:33     ` Chuck Lever
2015-07-10 14:33       ` Chuck Lever
2015-07-10 14:47       ` Devesh Sharma
2015-07-10 14:47         ` Devesh Sharma
2015-07-12 14:31   ` Sagi Grimberg
2015-07-12 14:31     ` Sagi Grimberg
2015-07-09 20:42 ` [PATCH v1 04/12] xprtrdma: Remove last ib_reg_phys_mr() call site Chuck Lever
2015-07-09 20:42   ` Chuck Lever
2015-07-10 10:52   ` Devesh Sharma
2015-07-10 10:52     ` Devesh Sharma
2015-07-11 10:34   ` Christoph Hellwig
2015-07-11 10:34     ` Christoph Hellwig
2015-07-11 18:50     ` Chuck Lever
2015-07-11 18:50       ` Chuck Lever
2015-07-12  7:58       ` Christoph Hellwig
2015-07-12  7:58         ` Christoph Hellwig
2015-07-12 14:31   ` Sagi Grimberg
2015-07-12 14:31     ` Sagi Grimberg
2015-07-09 20:42 ` [PATCH v1 05/12] xprtrdma: Account for RPC/RDMA header size when deciding to inline Chuck Lever
2015-07-09 20:42   ` Chuck Lever
2015-07-10 10:55   ` Devesh Sharma
2015-07-10 10:55     ` Devesh Sharma
2015-07-10 20:08   ` Anna Schumaker
2015-07-10 20:08     ` Anna Schumaker
2015-07-10 20:28     ` Chuck Lever
2015-07-10 20:28       ` Chuck Lever
2015-07-12 14:37   ` Sagi Grimberg
2015-07-12 14:37     ` Sagi Grimberg
2015-07-12 17:52     ` Chuck Lever
2015-07-12 17:52       ` Chuck Lever
2015-07-09 20:42 ` [PATCH v1 06/12] xprtrdma: Always provide a write list when sending NFS READ Chuck Lever
2015-07-09 20:42   ` Chuck Lever
2015-07-10 11:08   ` Devesh Sharma
2015-07-10 11:08     ` Devesh Sharma
2015-07-12 14:42   ` Sagi Grimberg
2015-07-12 14:42     ` Sagi Grimberg
2015-07-09 20:42 ` [PATCH v1 07/12] xprtrdma: Don't provide a reply chunk when expecting a short reply Chuck Lever
2015-07-09 20:42   ` Chuck Lever
2015-07-12 14:58   ` Sagi Grimberg [this message]
2015-07-12 14:58     ` Sagi Grimberg
2015-07-12 18:38     ` Chuck Lever
2015-07-12 18:38       ` Chuck Lever
2015-07-14  9:54       ` Sagi Grimberg
2015-07-14  9:54         ` Sagi Grimberg
2015-07-09 20:42 ` [PATCH v1 08/12] xprtrdma: Fix XDR tail buffer marshalling Chuck Lever
2015-07-09 20:42   ` Chuck Lever
2015-07-09 20:43 ` [PATCH v1 09/12] xprtrdma: Prepare rpcrdma_ep_post() for RDMA_NOMSG calls Chuck Lever
2015-07-09 20:43   ` Chuck Lever
2015-07-10 11:29   ` Devesh Sharma
2015-07-10 11:29     ` Devesh Sharma
2015-07-10 12:58     ` Tom Talpey
2015-07-10 12:58       ` Tom Talpey
2015-07-10 14:11       ` Devesh Sharma
2015-07-10 14:11         ` Devesh Sharma
2015-07-10 14:53         ` Chuck Lever
2015-07-10 14:53           ` Chuck Lever
2015-07-10 22:44           ` Jason Gunthorpe
2015-07-10 22:44             ` Jason Gunthorpe
2015-07-10 20:43   ` Anna Schumaker
2015-07-10 20:43     ` Anna Schumaker
2015-07-10 20:52     ` Chuck Lever
2015-07-10 20:52       ` Chuck Lever
2015-07-09 20:43 ` [PATCH v1 10/12] xprtrdma: Fix large NFS SYMLINK calls Chuck Lever
2015-07-09 20:43   ` Chuck Lever
2015-07-14 16:01   ` Anna Schumaker
2015-07-14 16:01     ` Anna Schumaker
2015-07-14 19:09     ` Chuck Lever
2015-07-14 19:09       ` Chuck Lever
2015-07-09 20:43 ` [PATCH v1 11/12] xprtrdma: Clean up xprt_rdma_print_stats() Chuck Lever
2015-07-09 20:43   ` Chuck Lever
2015-07-09 20:43 ` [PATCH v1 12/12] xprtrdma: Count RDMA_NOMSG type calls Chuck Lever
2015-07-09 20:43   ` Chuck Lever

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