RFC: drop quilt version 0.39

RFC: drop quilt version 0.39

[Rolf Leggewie]

Hi,

driven by bug 1960, I have been doing some work on quilt in OE,
refactoring, cleaning up and adding version 0.46.  In the process I also
dropped version version 0.39.  Is there anybody that needs this
particular version or can I commit to drop it?  I grepped through OE and
found no reference to it.  If you want it kept, speak up now.

Regards

Rolf


http://oz.leggewie.org/wip/quilt.old/
http://oz.leggewie.org/wip/quilt.new/
http://oz.leggewie.org/wip/quilt.mtndiff

Re: RFC: drop quilt version 0.39

[Koen Kooi]

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Rolf Leggewie schreef:
> Hi,
> 
> driven by bug 1960, I have been doing some work on quilt in OE,
> refactoring, cleaning up and adding version 0.46.  In the process I also
> dropped version version 0.39.  Is there anybody that needs this
> particular version or can I commit to drop it?  I grepped through OE and
> found no reference to it.  If you want it kept, speak up now.

What are your good reasons to drop it? I see no point in removing stuff
just to boost someones commit stats under the moniker "clean up"


- --
koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl will go go away in december 2007, please
use k.kooi@student.utwente.nl instead.

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Re: RFC: drop quilt version 0.39

[Rolf Leggewie]

Koen Kooi schrieb:
>> driven by bug 1960, I have been doing some work on quilt in OE,

> What are your good reasons to drop it? I see no point in removing stuff
> just to boost someones commit stats under the moniker "clean up"

Koen,

for the last time (I hope), please get help for your attitude problem.
OE does not need your misdirected accusations.

I asked for reasons *not* to drop it.  But since you - as always - are
determined to make other people's life more difficult than it really
needs to be, here is my answer as to why I think it should be dropped.

* had you bothered to look at the referenced bug you would have realized
  that it was not really me proposing to drop it initially.
* why keep old stuff (AKA cruft) longer than necessary?  Just so koen
  can bully fellow contributors?
* patches that apply fine to 0.45 and 0.46 don't apply cleanly to 0.39.
  This somehow gets into the way of how I reworked it.

IMHO that suffices to drop it unless there is good reason to keep it.
If there are, please state them.  And as you all know, OE is versioned
so if anybody were to want it back anytime in the future mtn would
gladly spew out the last known 0.39 version, I am sure.

Regards

Rolf

Re: RFC: drop quilt version 0.39

[Koen Kooi]

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Rolf Leggewie schreef:
> Koen Kooi schrieb:
>>> driven by bug 1960, I have been doing some work on quilt in OE,
> 
>> What are your good reasons to drop it? I see no point in removing stuff
>> just to boost someones commit stats under the moniker "clean up"
> 

<snip usual rolf drivel>

> * had you bothered to look at the referenced bug you would have realized
>   that it was not really me proposing to drop it initially.

That is still no reason to drop it.

> * why keep old stuff (AKA cruft) longer than necessary?  Just so koen
>   can bully fellow contributors?

So vendor can keep using it without having check IRC every 5 minutes to
say "No, we still need it". To keep the work needed when merging
branches down to a minumum. To do regression testing. To do statistical
analysis on packages.

> * patches that apply fine to 0.45 and 0.46 don't apply cleanly to 0.39.
>   This somehow gets into the way of how I reworked it.

FILES_PATH and FILES_DIR both have ${PN}-${PV} overrides, so this is
still no reason to drop it.

> IMHO that suffices to drop it unless there is good reason to keep it.
> If there are, please state them. 

You're under the impression we actively delete 'old' stuff in OE, which
we don't, since we have vendors using the OE tree that aren't on IRC and
don't check this mailinglist regulary.

> And as you all know, OE is versioned
> so if anybody were to want it back anytime in the future mtn would
> gladly spew out the last known 0.39 version, I am sure.

This attitude is exactly why vendors have difficulty with OE.

Again, you must have good reasons for removing it, not have no reasons
to keep it.
And even if you have good reasons, you have to put it in removal.txt
first, with at least a month notice.
If the 1/4000th impact on parsing bothers you, we also have
packages/obsolete/.

This all applies to OE in general as well, so your recent deletion of
atk will probably need reverting as well.


- --
koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl will go go away in december 2007, please
use k.kooi@student.utwente.nl instead.

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Re: RFC: drop quilt version 0.39

[Paul Sokolovsky]

Hello Koen,

Thursday, December 20, 2007, 10:24:27 AM, you wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1

> Rolf Leggewie schreef:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> driven by bug 1960, I have been doing some work on quilt in OE,
>> refactoring, cleaning up and adding version 0.46.  In the process I also
>> dropped version version 0.39.  Is there anybody that needs this
>> particular version or can I commit to drop it?  I grepped through OE and
>> found no reference to it.  If you want it kept, speak up now.

> What are your good reasons to drop it? I see no point in removing stuff
> just to boost someones commit stats under the moniker "clean up"

  I would like to second this (following my always-conservative
attitude to dropping stuff (without good reason) on which someone
worked hard previously (and someone can in the future)).

  To elaborate, I hope that we'll revamp OE support for using external
toolchains for building single packages, because it seems that people
have got a stereotype that OE is for building entire system from
scratch (at that would be too limiting - why I'd use top-notch
solution to build a whole distro while revert to using adhoc tools to
build packages for 3rd-party systems?)

  For example, I just pushed openwrt-sdk distro config, which allows
to build packages against OpenWRT SDK. Due to OpenWRT dependencies, it
may be required to build older than the latest versions of some
packages.



-- 
Best regards,
 Paul                            mailto:pmiscml@gmail.com

Re: RFC: drop quilt version 0.39

[Robert Schuster]

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Hi.

Paul Sokolovsky schrieb:
> Hello Koen,
> To elaborate, I hope that we'll revamp OE support for using external
> toolchains for building single packages, because it seems that people
> have got a stereotype that OE is for building entire system from
> scratch (at that would be too limiting - why I'd use top-notch
> solution to build a whole distro while revert to using adhoc tools to
> build packages for 3rd-party systems?)
I second this. At jalimo we heavily use OE to build packages for Maemo.
I find this much more sane than endlessly fighting with scratchbox ...

> For example, I just pushed openwrt-sdk distro config, which allows
> to build packages against OpenWRT SDK. Due to OpenWRT dependencies, it
> may be required to build older than the latest versions of some
> packages.
Would be fun to bring OpenWRT people to a point where they only manage a
small set of core packages and create every other package using OE ...

Regards
Robert


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Re: RFC: drop quilt version 0.39

[Felix Fietkau]

Robert Schuster <theBohemian <at> gmx.net> writes:
> Would be fun to bring OpenWRT people to a point where they only manage a
> small set of core packages and create every other package using OE ...
We already have a build system, but thanks for the offer :)

- Felix

Re: RFC: drop quilt version 0.39

[Paul Sokolovsky]

Hello Robert,

Friday, December 21, 2007, 2:48:05 AM, you wrote:

> Hi.

> Paul Sokolovsky schrieb:
>> Hello Koen,
>> To elaborate, I hope that we'll revamp OE support for using external
>> toolchains for building single packages, because it seems that people
>> have got a stereotype that OE is for building entire system from
>> scratch (at that would be too limiting - why I'd use top-notch
>> solution to build a whole distro while revert to using adhoc tools to
>> build packages for 3rd-party systems?)
> I second this. At jalimo we heavily use OE to build packages for Maemo.
> I find this much more sane than endlessly fighting with scratchbox ...

>> For example, I just pushed openwrt-sdk distro config, which allows
>> to build packages against OpenWRT SDK. Due to OpenWRT dependencies, it
>> may be required to build older than the latest versions of some
>> packages.
> Would be fun to bring OpenWRT people to a point where they only manage a
> small set of core packages and create every other package using OE ...

  Yeah, conquering the world if always fun, but we should start with
small things, like making it *easy* to build packages for 3rd-party
systems, and fight OE stereotypes, the biggest of which:

1. OE is hard to install and setup
2. OE builds only complete images for installing "from scratch"
3. OE is only for PDAs and builds only big images.

> Regards
> Robert




-- 
Best regards,
 Paul                            mailto:pmiscml@gmail.com

Re: RFC: drop quilt version 0.39

[Michael 'Mickey' Lauer]

Paul wrote:
>   Yeah, conquering the world if always fun, but we should start with
> small things, like making it *easy* to build packages for 3rd-party
> systems, and fight OE stereotypes, the biggest of which:

> 1. OE is hard to install and setup
> 2. OE builds only complete images for installing "from scratch"
> 3. OE is only for PDAs and builds only big images.

Word! :)

Regards,

:M:
-- 
Michael 'Mickey' Lauer | IT-Freelancer | http://www.vanille-media.de

Re: RFC: drop quilt version 0.39

[Rolf Leggewie]

Rolf Leggewie schrieb:
> driven by bug 1960, I have been doing some work on quilt in OE,

despite the critical remarks to this RFC, I am sure that
09891fc0c32d5edbc72b7bc758c18272982e4a8c will find everyone's approval.

regards