Should we remove xdp-newbies from kernel patch CC-list?

Should we remove xdp-newbies from kernel patch CC-list?

[Jesper Dangaard Brouer]

Question to people subscribed to xdp-newbies@vger.kernel.org mailing
list.  As you likely have noticed, patches and kbuild-bot is sending
XDP related kernel stuff to this mailing list.  This is caused by being
listed in the kernel MAINTAINERS file[1].

I've tried to create a survey to collect answers easier:
 https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/MTSL5T3

People can also just respond to mailing-list or just me (if you are
shy or want to reduce ML traffic) then I'll collect the results.


[1] https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v5.2-rc7/MAINTAINERS#L17263-L17271
-- 
Best regards,
  Jesper Dangaard Brouer
  MSc.CS, Principal Kernel Engineer at Red Hat
  LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/brouer

Re: Should we remove xdp-newbies from kernel patch CC-list?

[Jesper Dangaard Brouer]

On Thu, 4 Jul 2019 16:19:00 +0200
Jesper Dangaard Brouer <brouer@redhat.com> wrote:

> Question to people subscribed to xdp-newbies@vger.kernel.org mailing
> list.  As you likely have noticed, patches and kbuild-bot is sending
> XDP related kernel stuff to this mailing list.  This is caused by being
> listed in the kernel MAINTAINERS file[1].
> 
> I've tried to create a survey to collect answers easier:
>  https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/MTSL5T3

I did choose an US holiday for this survey, so I guess US participants
are not well represented, but the preliminary results are fairly clear
with 69% for "Remove from MAINTAINERS file".

I'll give it until tomorrow, to get the US results, before sending a
patch that removes this list.


> People can also just respond to mailing-list or just me (if you are
> shy or want to reduce ML traffic) then I'll collect the results.
> 
> [1] https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v5.2-rc7/MAINTAINERS#L17263-L17271

-- 
Best regards,
  Jesper Dangaard Brouer
  MSc.CS, Principal Kernel Engineer at Red Hat
  LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/brouer

Re: Should we remove xdp-newbies from kernel patch CC-list?

[Arthur Gautier]

On Fri, Jul 05, 2019 at 03:24:28PM +0200, Jesper Dangaard Brouer wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Jul 2019 16:19:00 +0200
> Jesper Dangaard Brouer <brouer@redhat.com> wrote:
> 
> > Question to people subscribed to xdp-newbies@vger.kernel.org mailing
> > list.  As you likely have noticed, patches and kbuild-bot is sending
> > XDP related kernel stuff to this mailing list.  This is caused by being
> > listed in the kernel MAINTAINERS file[1].
> > 
> > I've tried to create a survey to collect answers easier:
> >  https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/MTSL5T3
> 
> I did choose an US holiday for this survey, so I guess US participants
> are not well represented, but the preliminary results are fairly clear
> with 69% for "Remove from MAINTAINERS file".
> 
> I'll give it until tomorrow, to get the US results, before sending a
> patch that removes this list.

Hello Jesper,

To be fair, a ton of people in the US takes a holiday on July 5th to
make a 4 days weekend. You might want to let it run until Monday 8th.

-- 
\o/ Arthur
 G  Gandi.net

Re: Should we remove xdp-newbies from kernel patch CC-list?

[Jesper Dangaard Brouer]

On Fri, 5 Jul 2019 18:08:12 +0000
Arthur Gautier <baloo@gandi.net> wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 05, 2019 at 03:24:28PM +0200, Jesper Dangaard Brouer wrote:
> > On Thu, 4 Jul 2019 16:19:00 +0200
> > Jesper Dangaard Brouer <brouer@redhat.com> wrote:
> >   
> > > Question to people subscribed to xdp-newbies@vger.kernel.org mailing
> > > list.  As you likely have noticed, patches and kbuild-bot is sending
> > > XDP related kernel stuff to this mailing list.  This is caused by being
> > > listed in the kernel MAINTAINERS file[1].
> > > 
> > > I've tried to create a survey to collect answers easier:
> > >  https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/MTSL5T3  
> > 
> > I did choose an US holiday for this survey, so I guess US participants
> > are not well represented, but the preliminary results are fairly clear
> > with 69% for "Remove from MAINTAINERS file".
> > 
> > I'll give it until tomorrow, to get the US results, before sending a
> > patch that removes this list.  
> 
> Hello Jesper,
> 
> To be fair, a ton of people in the US takes a holiday on July 5th to
> make a 4 days weekend. You might want to let it run until Monday 8th.
 
Fair point, it is bad timing.  Unfortunately I travel on holidays
Sunday 7th, thus that will delay the patch until after my holidays, and
likely after the merge window (as Linus will make rc8 or release this
Sunday).  I guess, we are not in a hurry... so let's just wait, until
after the merge window.

-- 
Best regards,
  Jesper Dangaard Brouer
  MSc.CS, Principal Kernel Engineer at Red Hat
  LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/brouer

Re: Should we remove xdp-newbies from kernel patch CC-list?

[Zvi Effron]

On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 9:19 AM Jesper Dangaard Brouer <brouer@redhat.com> wrote:
>
>
> Question to people subscribed to xdp-newbies@vger.kernel.org mailing
> list.  As you likely have noticed, patches and kbuild-bot is sending
> XDP related kernel stuff to this mailing list.  This is caused by being
> listed in the kernel MAINTAINERS file[1].
>

I cast my vote for both. Having the named newbies channel send many,
many messages with kernel patches is intimidating to new people (and
somewhat spammy) which makes it harder to convince my team to sign up
for the list. At the same time, I've appreciated being able to see
what's happening on patches as well as questions and discussions.

Would it make sense/be possible to create a mailing list for the
maintainers file and discussions on patches that is separate from the
newbies channel? I have to say, the newbies channel is the only newbie
friendly kernel mailing list I've seen, and it's a big part of why I
pushed for my company to use XDP over DPDK.

--Zvi

Re: Should we remove xdp-newbies from kernel patch CC-list?

[David Miller]

From: Zvi Effron <zeffron@riotgames.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 12:28:52 -0500

> On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 9:19 AM Jesper Dangaard Brouer <brouer@redhat.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Question to people subscribed to xdp-newbies@vger.kernel.org mailing
>> list.  As you likely have noticed, patches and kbuild-bot is sending
>> XDP related kernel stuff to this mailing list.  This is caused by being
>> listed in the kernel MAINTAINERS file[1].
>>
> 
> I cast my vote for both. Having the named newbies channel send many,
> many messages with kernel patches is intimidating to new people (and
> somewhat spammy) which makes it harder to convince my team to sign up
> for the list. At the same time, I've appreciated being able to see
> what's happening on patches as well as questions and discussions.
> 
> Would it make sense/be possible to create a mailing list for the
> maintainers file and discussions on patches that is separate from the
> newbies channel? I have to say, the newbies channel is the only newbie
> friendly kernel mailing list I've seen, and it's a big part of why I
> pushed for my company to use XDP over DPDK.

The bpf and netdev lists act as incubators for XDP discussion, so I don't
know if it's worth making an xdp-devel or something like that.

Re: Should we remove xdp-newbies from kernel patch CC-list?

[Toke Høiland-Jørgensen]

David Miller <davem@davemloft.net> writes:

> From: Zvi Effron <zeffron@riotgames.com>
> Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 12:28:52 -0500
>
>> On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 9:19 AM Jesper Dangaard Brouer <brouer@redhat.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Question to people subscribed to xdp-newbies@vger.kernel.org mailing
>>> list.  As you likely have noticed, patches and kbuild-bot is sending
>>> XDP related kernel stuff to this mailing list.  This is caused by being
>>> listed in the kernel MAINTAINERS file[1].
>>>
>> 
>> I cast my vote for both. Having the named newbies channel send many,
>> many messages with kernel patches is intimidating to new people (and
>> somewhat spammy) which makes it harder to convince my team to sign up
>> for the list. At the same time, I've appreciated being able to see
>> what's happening on patches as well as questions and discussions.
>> 
>> Would it make sense/be possible to create a mailing list for the
>> maintainers file and discussions on patches that is separate from the
>> newbies channel? I have to say, the newbies channel is the only newbie
>> friendly kernel mailing list I've seen, and it's a big part of why I
>> pushed for my company to use XDP over DPDK.
>
> The bpf and netdev lists act as incubators for XDP discussion, so I don't
> know if it's worth making an xdp-devel or something like that.

I'd worry that it would fragment the discussion too much?

-Toke

Re: Should we remove xdp-newbies from kernel patch CC-list?

[Jesper Dangaard Brouer]

On Fri, 5 Jul 2019 20:48:52 +0200
Jesper Dangaard Brouer <brouer@redhat.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 5 Jul 2019 18:08:12 +0000
> Arthur Gautier <baloo@gandi.net> wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Jul 05, 2019 at 03:24:28PM +0200, Jesper Dangaard Brouer wrote:  
> > > On Thu, 4 Jul 2019 16:19:00 +0200
> > > Jesper Dangaard Brouer <brouer@redhat.com> wrote:
> > >     
> > > > Question to people subscribed to xdp-newbies@vger.kernel.org mailing
> > > > list.  As you likely have noticed, patches and kbuild-bot is sending
> > > > XDP related kernel stuff to this mailing list.  This is caused by being
> > > > listed in the kernel MAINTAINERS file[1].
> > > > 
> > > > I've tried to create a survey to collect answers easier:
> > > >  https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/MTSL5T3    
> > > 
> > > I did choose an US holiday for this survey, so I guess US participants
> > > are not well represented, but the preliminary results are fairly clear
> > > with 69% for "Remove from MAINTAINERS file".
> > > 
> > > I'll give it until tomorrow, to get the US results, before sending a
> > > patch that removes this list.    
> > 
> > Hello Jesper,
> > 
> > To be fair, a ton of people in the US takes a holiday on July 5th to
> > make a 4 days weekend. You might want to let it run until Monday 8th.  
>  
> Fair point, it is bad timing.  Unfortunately I travel on holidays
> Sunday 7th, thus that will delay the patch until after my holidays, and
> likely after the merge window (as Linus will make rc8 or release this
> Sunday).  I guess, we are not in a hurry... so let's just wait, until
> after the merge window.

(Back from vacation...)
I've just closed the survey. The final results are very clear.

Results:
 - Remove from MAINTAINERS file = 72.73%
 - Keep in MAINTAINERS file     = 36.36%

I'm going to send a kernel patch shortly...

Thanks you all for participating in voting.  It is important to me that
we keep this XDP user community healthy and interactive.  I will try to
focus my info/mails to be more focused on how to getting started coding
with XDP/eBPF.

-- 
Best regards,
  Jesper Dangaard Brouer
  MSc.CS, Principal Kernel Engineer at Red Hat
  LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/brouer