From: Matteo Tescione <matteo@rmnet.it>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
Matt Mackall <mpm@selenic.com>
Cc: Mike Christie <michaelc@cs.wisc.edu>,
Vladislav Bolkhovitin <vst@vlnb.net>,
linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org,
Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
"Nicholas A. Bellinger" <nab@linux-iscsi.org>,
James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com>,
scst-devel@lists.sourceforge.net,
Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
FUJITA Tomonori <fujita.tomonori@lab.ntt.co.jp>,
Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [Scst-devel] Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 05:43:10 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <C3CDA7EE.5784%matteo@rmnet.it> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0802041620110.3237@woody.linux-foundation.org>
Hi all,
And sorry for intrusion, i am not a developer but i work everyday with iscsi
and i found it fantastic.
Altough Aoe, Fcoe and so on could be better, we have to look in real world
implementations what is needed *now*, and if we look at vmware world,
virtual iron, microsoft clustering etc, the answer is iSCSI.
And now, SCST is the best open-source iSCSI target. So, from an end-user
point of view, what are the really problems to not integrate scst in the
mainstream kernel?
Just my two cent,
--
So long and thank for all the fish
--
#Matteo Tescione
#RMnet srl
>
>
> On Mon, 4 Feb 2008, Matt Mackall wrote:
>>
>> But ATAoE is boring because it's not IP. Which means no routing,
>> firewalls, tunnels, congestion control, etc.
>
> The thing is, that's often an advantage. Not just for performance.
>
>> NBD and iSCSI (for all its hideous growths) can take advantage of these
>> things.
>
> .. and all this could equally well be done by a simple bridging protocol
> (completely independently of any AoE code).
>
> The thing is, iSCSI does things at the wrong level. It *forces* people to
> use the complex protocols, when it's a known that a lot of people don't
> want it.
>
> Which is why these AoE and FCoE things keep popping up.
>
> It's easy to bridge ethernet and add a new layer on top of AoE if you need
> it. In comparison, it's *impossible* to remove an unnecessary layer from
> iSCSI.
>
> This is why "simple and low-level is good". It's always possible to build
> on top of low-level protocols, while it's generally never possible to
> simplify overly complex ones.
>
> Linus
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> Scst-devel mailing list
> Scst-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/scst-devel
>
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Matteo Tescione <matteo@rmnet.it>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
Matt Mackall <mpm@selenic.com>
Cc: Mike Christie <michaelc@cs.wisc.edu>,
Vladislav Bolkhovitin <vst@vlnb.net>,
<linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org>,
Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
"Nicholas A. Bellinger" <nab@linux-iscsi.org>,
James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com>,
<scst-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>,
Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
FUJITA Tomonori <fujita.tomonori@lab.ntt.co.jp>,
Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [Scst-devel] Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 05:43:10 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <C3CDA7EE.5784%matteo@rmnet.it> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0802041620110.3237@woody.linux-foundation.org>
Hi all,
And sorry for intrusion, i am not a developer but i work everyday with iscsi
and i found it fantastic.
Altough Aoe, Fcoe and so on could be better, we have to look in real world
implementations what is needed *now*, and if we look at vmware world,
virtual iron, microsoft clustering etc, the answer is iSCSI.
And now, SCST is the best open-source iSCSI target. So, from an end-user
point of view, what are the really problems to not integrate scst in the
mainstream kernel?
Just my two cent,
--
So long and thank for all the fish
--
#Matteo Tescione
#RMnet srl
>
>
> On Mon, 4 Feb 2008, Matt Mackall wrote:
>>
>> But ATAoE is boring because it's not IP. Which means no routing,
>> firewalls, tunnels, congestion control, etc.
>
> The thing is, that's often an advantage. Not just for performance.
>
>> NBD and iSCSI (for all its hideous growths) can take advantage of these
>> things.
>
> .. and all this could equally well be done by a simple bridging protocol
> (completely independently of any AoE code).
>
> The thing is, iSCSI does things at the wrong level. It *forces* people to
> use the complex protocols, when it's a known that a lot of people don't
> want it.
>
> Which is why these AoE and FCoE things keep popping up.
>
> It's easy to bridge ethernet and add a new layer on top of AoE if you need
> it. In comparison, it's *impossible* to remove an unnecessary layer from
> iSCSI.
>
> This is why "simple and low-level is good". It's always possible to build
> on top of low-level protocols, while it's generally never possible to
> simplify overly complex ones.
>
> Linus
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> Scst-devel mailing list
> Scst-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/scst-devel
>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2008-02-05 4:56 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 161+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2008-01-23 14:22 Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel Bart Van Assche
2008-01-23 14:22 ` Bart Van Assche
2008-01-23 17:11 ` Vladislav Bolkhovitin
2008-01-29 20:42 ` James Bottomley
2008-01-29 21:31 ` Roland Dreier
2008-01-29 23:32 ` FUJITA Tomonori
2008-01-30 1:15 ` [Scst-devel] " Vu Pham
2008-01-30 8:38 ` Bart Van Assche
2008-01-30 10:56 ` FUJITA Tomonori
2008-01-30 11:40 ` Vladislav Bolkhovitin
2008-01-30 13:10 ` Bart Van Assche
2008-01-30 13:54 ` FUJITA Tomonori
2008-01-30 13:54 ` FUJITA Tomonori
2008-01-31 7:48 ` Bart Van Assche
2008-01-31 13:25 ` Nicholas A. Bellinger
2008-01-31 14:34 ` Bart Van Assche
2008-01-31 14:44 ` Nicholas A. Bellinger
2008-01-31 15:50 ` Vladislav Bolkhovitin
2008-01-31 16:25 ` [Scst-devel] " Joe Landman
2008-01-31 17:08 ` Bart Van Assche
2008-01-31 17:13 ` Joe Landman
2008-01-31 18:12 ` David Dillow
2008-02-01 11:50 ` Vladislav Bolkhovitin
2008-02-01 11:50 ` Vladislav Bolkhovitin
2008-02-01 12:25 ` Vladislav Bolkhovitin
2008-01-31 17:14 ` Nicholas A. Bellinger
2008-01-31 17:40 ` Bart Van Assche
2008-01-31 18:15 ` Nicholas A. Bellinger
2008-02-01 9:08 ` Bart Van Assche
2008-02-01 8:11 ` Bart Van Assche
2008-02-01 10:39 ` Nicholas A. Bellinger
2008-02-01 11:04 ` Bart Van Assche
2008-02-01 12:05 ` Nicholas A. Bellinger
2008-02-01 13:25 ` Bart Van Assche
2008-02-01 14:36 ` Nicholas A. Bellinger
2008-01-30 16:34 ` James Bottomley
2008-01-30 16:50 ` Bart Van Assche
2008-02-02 15:32 ` Pete Wyckoff
2008-02-05 17:01 ` Erez Zilber
2008-02-06 12:16 ` Bart Van Assche
2008-02-06 16:45 ` Benny Halevy
2008-02-06 17:06 ` Roland Dreier
2008-02-18 9:43 ` Erez Zilber
2008-02-18 11:01 ` Bart Van Assche
2008-02-20 7:34 ` Erez Zilber
2008-02-20 8:41 ` Bart Van Assche
2008-01-30 11:18 ` Vladislav Bolkhovitin
2008-01-30 8:29 ` Bart Van Assche
2008-01-30 16:22 ` James Bottomley
2008-01-30 17:03 ` Bart Van Assche
2008-02-05 7:14 ` [Scst-devel] " Tomasz Chmielewski
2008-02-05 13:38 ` FUJITA Tomonori
2008-02-05 13:38 ` FUJITA Tomonori
2008-02-05 16:07 ` Tomasz Chmielewski
2008-02-05 16:21 ` Ming Zhang
2008-02-05 16:43 ` FUJITA Tomonori
2008-02-05 16:43 ` FUJITA Tomonori
2008-02-05 17:09 ` Matteo Tescione
2008-02-05 17:09 ` Matteo Tescione
2008-02-06 1:29 ` FUJITA Tomonori
2008-02-06 2:01 ` Nicholas A. Bellinger
2008-01-30 11:17 ` Vladislav Bolkhovitin
2008-02-04 12:27 ` Vladislav Bolkhovitin
2008-02-04 13:53 ` Bart Van Assche
2008-02-04 17:00 ` David Dillow
2008-02-04 17:08 ` Vladislav Bolkhovitin
2008-02-05 16:25 ` Bart Van Assche
2008-02-05 18:18 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-04 15:30 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-04 16:25 ` Vladislav Bolkhovitin
2008-02-04 17:06 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-04 17:16 ` Vladislav Bolkhovitin
2008-02-04 17:25 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-04 17:56 ` Vladislav Bolkhovitin
2008-02-04 18:22 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-04 18:38 ` Vladislav Bolkhovitin
2008-02-04 18:54 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-05 18:59 ` Vladislav Bolkhovitin
2008-02-05 19:13 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-06 18:07 ` Vladislav Bolkhovitin
2008-02-07 13:13 ` [Scst-devel] " Bart Van Assche
2008-02-07 13:13 ` Bart Van Assche
2008-02-07 13:45 ` Vladislav Bolkhovitin
2008-02-07 22:51 ` david
2008-02-08 10:37 ` Vladislav Bolkhovitin
2008-02-09 7:40 ` david
2008-02-08 11:33 ` Nicholas A. Bellinger
2008-02-08 14:36 ` Vladislav Bolkhovitin
2008-02-08 23:53 ` Nicholas A. Bellinger
2008-02-15 15:02 ` Bart Van Assche
2008-02-07 15:38 ` [Scst-devel] " Nicholas A. Bellinger
2008-02-07 20:37 ` Luben Tuikov
2008-02-08 10:32 ` Vladislav Bolkhovitin
2008-02-09 7:32 ` Luben Tuikov
2008-02-11 10:02 ` Vladislav Bolkhovitin
2008-02-08 11:53 ` [Scst-devel] " Nicholas A. Bellinger
2008-02-08 14:42 ` Vladislav Bolkhovitin
2008-02-09 0:00 ` Nicholas A. Bellinger
2008-02-04 18:29 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-04 18:49 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-04 19:06 ` Nicholas A. Bellinger
2008-02-04 19:19 ` Nicholas A. Bellinger
2008-02-04 19:44 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-04 20:06 ` [Scst-devel] " 4news
2008-02-04 20:06 ` 4news
2008-02-04 20:24 ` Nicholas A. Bellinger
2008-02-04 21:01 ` J. Bruce Fields
2008-02-04 21:24 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-04 22:00 ` Nicholas A. Bellinger
2008-02-04 22:57 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-02-04 23:45 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-05 0:08 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-02-05 1:20 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-05 8:38 ` Bart Van Assche
2008-02-05 17:50 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-02-06 10:22 ` Bart Van Assche
2008-02-06 14:21 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-02-05 13:05 ` Olivier Galibert
2008-02-05 18:08 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-02-05 18:08 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-02-05 19:01 ` Vladislav Bolkhovitin
2008-02-04 22:43 ` Alan Cox
2008-02-04 17:30 ` Douglas Gilbert
2008-02-05 2:07 ` [Scst-devel] " Chris Weiss
2008-02-05 14:19 ` FUJITA Tomonori
2008-02-05 14:19 ` FUJITA Tomonori
2008-02-04 22:59 ` Nicholas A. Bellinger
2008-02-04 23:00 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-04 23:12 ` Nicholas A. Bellinger
2008-02-04 23:12 ` Nicholas A. Bellinger
2008-02-04 23:16 ` Nicholas A. Bellinger
2008-02-04 23:16 ` Nicholas A. Bellinger
2008-02-05 18:37 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-04 23:04 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-02-04 23:27 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-05 19:01 ` Vladislav Bolkhovitin
2008-02-05 19:12 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-02-05 19:21 ` Vladislav Bolkhovitin
2008-02-06 0:11 ` Nicholas A. Bellinger
2008-02-06 1:43 ` Nicholas A. Bellinger
2008-02-12 16:05 ` [Scst-devel] " Bart Van Assche
2008-02-13 3:44 ` Nicholas A. Bellinger
2008-02-13 6:18 ` CONFIG_SLUB and reproducable general protection faults on 2.6.2x Nicholas A. Bellinger
2008-02-13 16:37 ` Nicholas A. Bellinger
2008-02-06 0:17 ` Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel Nicholas A. Bellinger
2008-02-06 0:48 ` Nicholas A. Bellinger
2008-02-06 0:51 ` Nicholas A. Bellinger
2008-02-05 0:07 ` Matt Mackall
2008-02-05 0:24 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-05 0:42 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-02-05 0:45 ` Matt Mackall
2008-02-05 4:43 ` Matteo Tescione [this message]
2008-02-05 4:43 ` [Scst-devel] " Matteo Tescione
2008-02-05 5:07 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-05 13:38 ` FUJITA Tomonori
2008-02-05 13:38 ` FUJITA Tomonori
2008-02-05 19:00 ` Vladislav Bolkhovitin
2008-02-05 17:10 ` Erez Zilber
2008-02-05 19:02 ` Bart Van Assche
2008-02-05 19:02 ` Vladislav Bolkhovitin
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2008-02-09 7:44 [Scst-devel] " Luben Tuikov
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