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From: James Morris <james.l.morris@oracle.com>
To: "Serge E. Hallyn" <serge@hallyn.com>
Cc: "Mahesh Bandewar (महेश बंडेवार)" <maheshb@google.com>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Netdev <netdev@vger.kernel.org>,
	Kernel-hardening <kernel-hardening@lists.openwall.com>,
	"Linux API" <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>,
	"Kees Cook" <keescook@chromium.org>,
	"Eric W . Biederman" <ebiederm@xmission.com>,
	"Eric Dumazet" <edumazet@google.com>,
	"David Miller" <davem@davemloft.net>,
	"Mahesh Bandewar" <mahesh@bandewar.net>
Subject: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCHv3 0/2] capability controlled user-namespaces
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 20:51:20 +1100 (AEDT)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.20.1801082040180.12014@localhost> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20180108062452.GA21717@mail.hallyn.com>

On Mon, 8 Jan 2018, Serge E. Hallyn wrote:

> > Also, why do we need the concept of a controlled user-ns at all, if the 
> > default whitelist maintains existing behavior?
> 
> In past discussions two uses have been brought up:
> 
> 1. if an 0-day is discovered which is exacerbated by a specific
> privilege in user namespaces, that privilege could be turned off until a
> reboot with a fixed kernel is scheduled, without fully disabling all
> containers.
> 
> 2. some systems may be specifically designed to run software which
> only requires a few capabilities in a userns.  In that case all others
> could be disabled.
> 

I meant in terms of "marking" a user ns as "controlled" type -- it's 
unnecessary jargon from an end user point of view.

This may happen internally but don't make it a special case with a 
different name and don't bother users with internal concepts: simply 
implement capability whitelists with the default having equivalent 
behavior of everything allowed.  Then, document the semantics of the 
whitelist in terms of inheritance etc., as a feature of user namespaces, 
not as a "type" of user namespace.


- James
-- 
James Morris
<james.l.morris@oracle.com>

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: James Morris <james.l.morris@oracle.com>
To: "Serge E. Hallyn" <serge@hallyn.com>
Cc: "Mahesh Bandewar (महेश बंडेवार)" <maheshb@google.com>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Netdev <netdev@vger.kernel.org>,
	Kernel-hardening <kernel-hardening@lists.openwall.com>,
	"Linux API" <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>,
	"Kees Cook" <keescook@chromium.org>,
	"Eric W . Biederman" <ebiederm@xmission.com>,
	"Eric Dumazet" <edumazet@google.com>,
	"David Miller" <davem@davemloft.net>,
	"Mahesh Bandewar" <mahesh@bandewar.net>
Subject: Re: [PATCHv3 0/2] capability controlled user-namespaces
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 20:51:20 +1100 (AEDT)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.20.1801082040180.12014@localhost> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20180108062452.GA21717@mail.hallyn.com>

On Mon, 8 Jan 2018, Serge E. Hallyn wrote:

> > Also, why do we need the concept of a controlled user-ns at all, if the 
> > default whitelist maintains existing behavior?
> 
> In past discussions two uses have been brought up:
> 
> 1. if an 0-day is discovered which is exacerbated by a specific
> privilege in user namespaces, that privilege could be turned off until a
> reboot with a fixed kernel is scheduled, without fully disabling all
> containers.
> 
> 2. some systems may be specifically designed to run software which
> only requires a few capabilities in a userns.  In that case all others
> could be disabled.
> 

I meant in terms of "marking" a user ns as "controlled" type -- it's 
unnecessary jargon from an end user point of view.

This may happen internally but don't make it a special case with a 
different name and don't bother users with internal concepts: simply 
implement capability whitelists with the default having equivalent 
behavior of everything allowed.  Then, document the semantics of the 
whitelist in terms of inheritance etc., as a feature of user namespaces, 
not as a "type" of user namespace.


- James
-- 
James Morris
<james.l.morris@oracle.com>

  reply	other threads:[~2018-01-08  9:51 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 43+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-12-05 22:30 [kernel-hardening] [PATCHv3 0/2] capability controlled user-namespaces Mahesh Bandewar
2017-12-05 22:30 ` Mahesh Bandewar
2017-12-27 17:09 ` [kernel-hardening] " Mahesh Bandewar (महेश बंडेवार)
2017-12-27 17:09   ` Mahesh Bandewar (महेश बंडेवार)
2017-12-27 17:09   ` Mahesh Bandewar (महेश बंडेवार)
2017-12-27 20:23   ` [kernel-hardening] " Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2017-12-27 20:23     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2017-12-28  0:45     ` [kernel-hardening] " Mahesh Bandewar (महेश बंडेवार)
2017-12-28  0:45       ` Mahesh Bandewar (महेश बंडेवार)
2017-12-30  8:50       ` [kernel-hardening] " Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2017-12-30  8:50         ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2017-12-30  8:50         ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2018-01-03  1:35         ` [kernel-hardening] " Mahesh Bandewar (महेश बंडेवार)
2018-01-03  1:35           ` Mahesh Bandewar (महेश बंडेवार)
2017-12-30  8:31   ` [kernel-hardening] " James Morris
2017-12-30  8:31     ` James Morris
2018-01-03  1:30     ` [kernel-hardening] " Mahesh Bandewar (महेश बंडेवार)
2018-01-03  1:30       ` Mahesh Bandewar (महेश बंडेवार)
2018-01-08  0:35       ` [kernel-hardening] " James Morris
2018-01-08  0:35         ` James Morris
2018-01-08  6:24         ` [kernel-hardening] " Serge E. Hallyn
2018-01-08  6:24           ` Serge E. Hallyn
2018-01-08  9:51           ` James Morris [this message]
2018-01-08  9:51             ` James Morris
2018-01-08 15:47             ` [kernel-hardening] " Serge E. Hallyn
2018-01-08 15:47               ` Serge E. Hallyn
2018-01-08 15:47               ` Serge E. Hallyn
2018-01-08 17:21               ` [kernel-hardening] " Mahesh Bandewar (महेश बंडेवार)
2018-01-08 17:21                 ` Mahesh Bandewar (महेश बंडेवार)
2018-01-08 18:11                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Serge E. Hallyn
2018-01-08 18:11                   ` Serge E. Hallyn
2018-01-08 18:11                   ` Serge E. Hallyn
2018-01-08 18:24                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Mahesh Bandewar (महेश बंडेवार)
2018-01-08 18:24                     ` Mahesh Bandewar (महेश बंडेवार)
2018-01-08 18:36                     ` [kernel-hardening] " Serge E. Hallyn
2018-01-08 18:36                       ` Serge E. Hallyn
2018-01-08 18:55                       ` [kernel-hardening] " Mahesh Bandewar (महेश बंडेवार)
2018-01-08 18:55                         ` Mahesh Bandewar (महेश बंडेवार)
2018-01-09 22:28                         ` [kernel-hardening] " Serge E. Hallyn
2018-01-09 22:28                           ` Serge E. Hallyn
2018-01-10  2:08                           ` [kernel-hardening] " Mahesh Bandewar (महेश बंडेवार)
2018-01-10  2:08                             ` Mahesh Bandewar (महेश बंडेवार)
2018-01-10  2:08                             ` Mahesh Bandewar (महेश बंडेवार)

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