[RFC] removing DISTRO_* vars from task-boot

[RFC] removing DISTRO_* vars from task-boot

[Koen Kooi]

Hi,

Lately I have been wondering how to change the /dev manager on a per 
image base, since I want udev for most images and busybox-mdev for 
special-purpose stuff. The catch is that I want to keep using task-boot 
for both.

Currently we have:

DISTRO_DEV_MANAGER ?= "${@base_contains("MACHINE_FEATURES", "kernel26", 
  "udev","",d)} "
DISTRO_INIT_MANAGER ?= "sysvinit sysvinit-pidof"
DISTRO_INITSCRIPTS ?= "initscripts"
DISTRO_LOGIN_MANAGER ?= "tinylogin"

in task-boot.bb

There are various ways we could attack this:

1) The image.bbclass way:

   Put the following in image.bbclass:

   IMAGE_DEV_MANAGER ?= "${@base_contains("MACHINE_FEATURES", 
"kernel26",  "udev","",d)} "
   IMAGE_INIT_MANAGER ?= "sysvinit sysvinit-pidof"
   IMAGE_INITSCRIPTS ?= "initscripts"
   IMAGE_LOGIN_MANAGER ?= "tinylogin"

   Pros:
   * Takes immediate effect
   * Can have distro defaults, overridable per image

   Cons:
   * marks them as 'user installed'
   * you can't 'debootstrap' from tasks anymore, you need to encode 
knowledge about the above vars into the debootstrap script

2) Make task-boot nostamp

   Pros:
   * takes effect on image build time
   * Can have distro defaults, overridable per image

   Cons:
   * QA hell, there's no way to tell what's inside task-boot_1.0-r87.ipk 
from the outside

3) Have task-boot.bb create task-boot-mdev and task-boot-udev

   Pros:
   * clean
   * solves my immediate need

   Cons:
   * doesn't scale for other vars

4) Move the vars to RRECOMMENDS and filter them out with BAD_RECOMMENDATIONS

   Pros:
   * takes effect on image time
   * performs as expected

   Cons:
   * image build succeeds when no /dev manager is present

What are your opinions on all this?

regards,

Koen

Re: [RFC] removing DISTRO_* vars from task-boot

[Tom Rini]

On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 01:26:34PM +0100, Koen Kooi wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Lately I have been wondering how to change the /dev manager on a per  
> image base, since I want udev for most images and busybox-mdev for  
> special-purpose stuff. The catch is that I want to keep using task-boot  
> for both.
>
> Currently we have:
>
> DISTRO_DEV_MANAGER ?= "${@base_contains("MACHINE_FEATURES", "kernel26",  
> "udev","",d)} "
> DISTRO_INIT_MANAGER ?= "sysvinit sysvinit-pidof"
> DISTRO_INITSCRIPTS ?= "initscripts"
> DISTRO_LOGIN_MANAGER ?= "tinylogin"
>
> in task-boot.bb
>
> There are various ways we could attack this:
>
> 1) The image.bbclass way:
>
>   Put the following in image.bbclass:
>
>   IMAGE_DEV_MANAGER ?= "${@base_contains("MACHINE_FEATURES", "kernel26",  
> "udev","",d)} "
>   IMAGE_INIT_MANAGER ?= "sysvinit sysvinit-pidof"
>   IMAGE_INITSCRIPTS ?= "initscripts"
>   IMAGE_LOGIN_MANAGER ?= "tinylogin"
>
>   Pros:
>   * Takes immediate effect
>   * Can have distro defaults, overridable per image
>
>   Cons:
>   * marks them as 'user installed'
>   * you can't 'debootstrap' from tasks anymore, you need to encode  
> knowledge about the above vars into the debootstrap script

I really like this one as for our uses there's times where I'd rather
let busybox handle INIT_MANAGER and LOGIN_MANAGER too.

-- 
Tom Rini

Re: [RFC] removing DISTRO_* vars from task-boot

[Koen Kooi]

On 17-02-09 17:35, Tom Rini wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 01:26:34PM +0100, Koen Kooi wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Lately I have been wondering how to change the /dev manager on a per
>> image base, since I want udev for most images and busybox-mdev for
>> special-purpose stuff. The catch is that I want to keep using task-boot
>> for both.
>>
>> Currently we have:
>>
>> DISTRO_DEV_MANAGER ?= "${@base_contains("MACHINE_FEATURES", "kernel26",
>> "udev","",d)}"
>> DISTRO_INIT_MANAGER ?= "sysvinit sysvinit-pidof"
>> DISTRO_INITSCRIPTS ?= "initscripts"
>> DISTRO_LOGIN_MANAGER ?= "tinylogin"
>>
>> in task-boot.bb
>>
>> There are various ways we could attack this:
>>
>> 1) The image.bbclass way:
>>
>>    Put the following in image.bbclass:
>>
>>    IMAGE_DEV_MANAGER ?= "${@base_contains("MACHINE_FEATURES", "kernel26",
>> "udev","",d)}"
>>    IMAGE_INIT_MANAGER ?= "sysvinit sysvinit-pidof"
>>    IMAGE_INITSCRIPTS ?= "initscripts"
>>    IMAGE_LOGIN_MANAGER ?= "tinylogin"
>>
>>    Pros:
>>    * Takes immediate effect
>>    * Can have distro defaults, overridable per image
>>
>>    Cons:
>>    * marks them as 'user installed'
>>    * you can't 'debootstrap' from tasks anymore, you need to encode
>> knowledge about the above vars into the debootstrap script
>
> I really like this one as for our uses there's times where I'd rather
> let busybox handle INIT_MANAGER and LOGIN_MANAGER too.

Philip C. agrees with you. Should be move everything over or start with 
IMAGE_DEV_MANAGER?

regards,

Koen

Re: [RFC] removing DISTRO_* vars from task-boot

[Tom Rini]

On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 07:43:42PM +0100, Koen Kooi wrote:
> On 17-02-09 17:35, Tom Rini wrote:
>> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 01:26:34PM +0100, Koen Kooi wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Lately I have been wondering how to change the /dev manager on a per
>>> image base, since I want udev for most images and busybox-mdev for
>>> special-purpose stuff. The catch is that I want to keep using task-boot
>>> for both.
>>>
>>> Currently we have:
>>>
>>> DISTRO_DEV_MANAGER ?= "${@base_contains("MACHINE_FEATURES", "kernel26",
>>> "udev","",d)}"
>>> DISTRO_INIT_MANAGER ?= "sysvinit sysvinit-pidof"
>>> DISTRO_INITSCRIPTS ?= "initscripts"
>>> DISTRO_LOGIN_MANAGER ?= "tinylogin"
>>>
>>> in task-boot.bb
>>>
>>> There are various ways we could attack this:
>>>
>>> 1) The image.bbclass way:
>>>
>>>    Put the following in image.bbclass:
>>>
>>>    IMAGE_DEV_MANAGER ?= "${@base_contains("MACHINE_FEATURES", "kernel26",
>>> "udev","",d)}"
>>>    IMAGE_INIT_MANAGER ?= "sysvinit sysvinit-pidof"
>>>    IMAGE_INITSCRIPTS ?= "initscripts"
>>>    IMAGE_LOGIN_MANAGER ?= "tinylogin"
>>>
>>>    Pros:
>>>    * Takes immediate effect
>>>    * Can have distro defaults, overridable per image
>>>
>>>    Cons:
>>>    * marks them as 'user installed'
>>>    * you can't 'debootstrap' from tasks anymore, you need to encode
>>> knowledge about the above vars into the debootstrap script
>>
>> I really like this one as for our uses there's times where I'd rather
>> let busybox handle INIT_MANAGER and LOGIN_MANAGER too.
>
> Philip C. agrees with you. Should be move everything over or start with  
> IMAGE_DEV_MANAGER?

I say do it all now.  Flexibility is good, lets get it done.

-- 
Tom Rini

Re: [RFC] removing DISTRO_* vars from task-boot

[Koen Kooi]

On 18-02-09 20:22, Tom Rini wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 07:43:42PM +0100, Koen Kooi wrote:
>> On 17-02-09 17:35, Tom Rini wrote:
>>> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 01:26:34PM +0100, Koen Kooi wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Lately I have been wondering how to change the /dev manager on a per
>>>> image base, since I want udev for most images and busybox-mdev for
>>>> special-purpose stuff. The catch is that I want to keep using task-boot
>>>> for both.
>>>>
>>>> Currently we have:
>>>>
>>>> DISTRO_DEV_MANAGER ?= "${@base_contains("MACHINE_FEATURES", "kernel26",
>>>> "udev","",d)}"
>>>> DISTRO_INIT_MANAGER ?= "sysvinit sysvinit-pidof"
>>>> DISTRO_INITSCRIPTS ?= "initscripts"
>>>> DISTRO_LOGIN_MANAGER ?= "tinylogin"
>>>>
>>>> in task-boot.bb
>>>>
>>>> There are various ways we could attack this:
>>>>
>>>> 1) The image.bbclass way:
>>>>
>>>>     Put the following in image.bbclass:
>>>>
>>>>     IMAGE_DEV_MANAGER ?= "${@base_contains("MACHINE_FEATURES", "kernel26",
>>>> "udev","",d)}"
>>>>     IMAGE_INIT_MANAGER ?= "sysvinit sysvinit-pidof"
>>>>     IMAGE_INITSCRIPTS ?= "initscripts"
>>>>     IMAGE_LOGIN_MANAGER ?= "tinylogin"
>>>>
>>>>     Pros:
>>>>     * Takes immediate effect
>>>>     * Can have distro defaults, overridable per image
>>>>
>>>>     Cons:
>>>>     * marks them as 'user installed'
>>>>     * you can't 'debootstrap' from tasks anymore, you need to encode
>>>> knowledge about the above vars into the debootstrap script
>>> I really like this one as for our uses there's times where I'd rather
>>> let busybox handle INIT_MANAGER and LOGIN_MANAGER too.
>> Philip C. agrees with you. Should be move everything over or start with
>> IMAGE_DEV_MANAGER?
>
> I say do it all now.  Flexibility is good, lets get it done.

The patch should appear on this ml right about now.

regards,

Koen

Re: [RFC] removing DISTRO_* vars from task-boot

[Sledz, Steffen]

> >>>> Lately I have been wondering how to change the /dev 
> manager on a per
> >>>> image base, since I want udev for most images and 
> busybox-mdev for
> >>>> special-purpose stuff. The catch is that I want to keep 
> using task-boot
> >>>> for both.
> >>>>
> >>>> Currently we have:
> >>>>
> >>>> DISTRO_DEV_MANAGER ?= 
> "${@base_contains("MACHINE_FEATURES", "kernel26",
> >>>> "udev","",d)}"
> >>>> DISTRO_INIT_MANAGER ?= "sysvinit sysvinit-pidof"
> >>>> DISTRO_INITSCRIPTS ?= "initscripts"
> >>>> DISTRO_LOGIN_MANAGER ?= "tinylogin"
> >>>>
> >>>> in task-boot.bb
> >>>>
> >>>> There are various ways we could attack this:
> >>>>
> >>>> 1) The image.bbclass way:
> >>>>
> >>>>     Put the following in image.bbclass:
> >>>>
> >>>>     IMAGE_DEV_MANAGER ?= 
> "${@base_contains("MACHINE_FEATURES", "kernel26",
> >>>> "udev","",d)}"
> >>>>     IMAGE_INIT_MANAGER ?= "sysvinit sysvinit-pidof"
> >>>>     IMAGE_INITSCRIPTS ?= "initscripts"
> >>>>     IMAGE_LOGIN_MANAGER ?= "tinylogin"
> >>>>
> >>>>     Pros:
> >>>>     * Takes immediate effect
> >>>>     * Can have distro defaults, overridable per image
> >>>>
> >>>>     Cons:
> >>>>     * marks them as 'user installed'
> >>>>     * you can't 'debootstrap' from tasks anymore, you 
> need to encode
> >>>> knowledge about the above vars into the debootstrap script
> >>> I really like this one as for our uses there's times 
> where I'd rather
> >>> let busybox handle INIT_MANAGER and LOGIN_MANAGER too.
> >> Philip C. agrees with you. Should be move everything over 
> or start with
> >> IMAGE_DEV_MANAGER?
> >
> > I say do it all now.  Flexibility is good, lets get it done.
> 
> The patch should appear on this ml right about now.

This is a good (or bad?) example for the wish a uttered some days before. In the official OE manual there is nothing to read about DISTRO_* and/or IMAGE_* vars.

It would be really helpful for other developers which are not that familiar with all the variable stuff and do not memorize the complete mailing list if you could start to document such things in the wiki.

Thx,
Steffen

Re: [RFC] removing DISTRO_* vars from task-boot

[Koen Kooi]

On 19-02-09 12:00, Sledz, Steffen wrote:

> This is a good (or bad?) example for the wish a uttered some days before. In the official OE manual there is nothing to read about DISTRO_* and/or IMAGE_* vars.

The manual is in git, anyone can edit it. If you think someone is 
missing, add it.

regards,

Koen

Re: [RFC] removing DISTRO_* vars from task-boot

[Sledz, Steffen]

> > This is a good (or bad?) example for the wish a uttered 
> > some days before. In the official OE manual there is nothing 
> > to read about DISTRO_* and/or IMAGE_* vars.
> 
> The manual is in git, anyone can edit it. If you think someone is 
> missing, add it.

Sorry, but this is not very constructive.

I do not have the knowledge about these things, but you(*) have (i believe). So i can't document this, but you can.

I know that documentation is a very boring and time consuming task (i'm a software developer myself), but it is an essential part of development. And if you want to avoid later problems (beginning from annoying, repetitive questions in the mailing list up to dirty patches based on misunderstanding), you should not ignore this task.

(*) Here 'you' is not just Koen but everyone who is responsible for a bigger a smaller part of OE. 

Regards,
Steffen

Re: [RFC] removing DISTRO_* vars from task-boot

[Koen Kooi]

On 19-02-09 11:40, Koen Kooi wrote:
> On 18-02-09 20:22, Tom Rini wrote:
>> On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 07:43:42PM +0100, Koen Kooi wrote:
>>> On 17-02-09 17:35, Tom Rini wrote:
>>>> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 01:26:34PM +0100, Koen Kooi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> Lately I have been wondering how to change the /dev manager on a per
>>>>> image base, since I want udev for most images and busybox-mdev for
>>>>> special-purpose stuff. The catch is that I want to keep using
>>>>> task-boot
>>>>> for both.
>>>>>
>>>>> Currently we have:
>>>>>
>>>>> DISTRO_DEV_MANAGER ?= "${@base_contains("MACHINE_FEATURES",
>>>>> "kernel26",
>>>>> "udev","",d)}"
>>>>> DISTRO_INIT_MANAGER ?= "sysvinit sysvinit-pidof"
>>>>> DISTRO_INITSCRIPTS ?= "initscripts"
>>>>> DISTRO_LOGIN_MANAGER ?= "tinylogin"
>>>>>
>>>>> in task-boot.bb
>>>>>
>>>>> There are various ways we could attack this:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) The image.bbclass way:
>>>>>
>>>>> Put the following in image.bbclass:
>>>>>
>>>>> IMAGE_DEV_MANAGER ?= "${@base_contains("MACHINE_FEATURES", "kernel26",
>>>>> "udev","",d)}"
>>>>> IMAGE_INIT_MANAGER ?= "sysvinit sysvinit-pidof"
>>>>> IMAGE_INITSCRIPTS ?= "initscripts"
>>>>> IMAGE_LOGIN_MANAGER ?= "tinylogin"
>>>>>
>>>>> Pros:
>>>>> * Takes immediate effect
>>>>> * Can have distro defaults, overridable per image
>>>>>
>>>>> Cons:
>>>>> * marks them as 'user installed'
>>>>> * you can't 'debootstrap' from tasks anymore, you need to encode
>>>>> knowledge about the above vars into the debootstrap script
>>>> I really like this one as for our uses there's times where I'd rather
>>>> let busybox handle INIT_MANAGER and LOGIN_MANAGER too.
>>> Philip C. agrees with you. Should be move everything over or start with
>>> IMAGE_DEV_MANAGER?
>>
>> I say do it all now. Flexibility is good, lets get it done.
>
> The patch should appear on this ml right about now.

Mailman seems to hate me:

http://amethyst.openembedded.net/~koen/0001-task-boot-rename-DISTRO_-vars-to-IMAGE_-vars-and-mo.patch

Re: [RFC] removing DISTRO_* vars from task-boot

[Marcin Juszkiewicz]

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On Thursday 19 of February 2009 12:14:18 Koen Kooi wrote:
> > The patch should appear on this ml right about now.
>
> Mailman seems to hate me:
>
> http://amethyst.openembedded.net/~koen/0001-task-boot-rename-DISTRO_-
>vars-to-IMAGE_-vars-and-mo.patch

Acked-By: Marcin Juszkiewicz <hrw@openembedded.org>

Regards, 
-- 
JID:      hrw@jabber.org
Website:  http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcinjuszkiewicz

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Re: [RFC] removing DISTRO_* vars from task-boot

[Philip Balister]

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Koen Kooi wrote:
> On 17-02-09 17:35, Tom Rini wrote:
>> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 01:26:34PM +0100, Koen Kooi wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Lately I have been wondering how to change the /dev manager on a per
>>> image base, since I want udev for most images and busybox-mdev for
>>> special-purpose stuff. The catch is that I want to keep using task-boot
>>> for both.
>>>
>>> Currently we have:
>>>
>>> DISTRO_DEV_MANAGER ?= "${@base_contains("MACHINE_FEATURES", "kernel26",
>>> "udev","",d)}"
>>> DISTRO_INIT_MANAGER ?= "sysvinit sysvinit-pidof"
>>> DISTRO_INITSCRIPTS ?= "initscripts"
>>> DISTRO_LOGIN_MANAGER ?= "tinylogin"
>>>
>>> in task-boot.bb
>>>
>>> There are various ways we could attack this:
>>>
>>> 1) The image.bbclass way:
>>>
>>>    Put the following in image.bbclass:
>>>
>>>    IMAGE_DEV_MANAGER ?= "${@base_contains("MACHINE_FEATURES", 
>>> "kernel26",
>>> "udev","",d)}"
>>>    IMAGE_INIT_MANAGER ?= "sysvinit sysvinit-pidof"
>>>    IMAGE_INITSCRIPTS ?= "initscripts"
>>>    IMAGE_LOGIN_MANAGER ?= "tinylogin"
>>>
>>>    Pros:
>>>    * Takes immediate effect
>>>    * Can have distro defaults, overridable per image
>>>
>>>    Cons:
>>>    * marks them as 'user installed'
>>>    * you can't 'debootstrap' from tasks anymore, you need to encode
>>> knowledge about the above vars into the debootstrap script
>>
>> I really like this one as for our uses there's times where I'd rather
>> let busybox handle INIT_MANAGER and LOGIN_MANAGER too.
> 
> Philip C. agrees with you. Should be move everything over or start with 
> IMAGE_DEV_MANAGER?

I should mention my specific issues with solutions and my disclaimer:

2) I do not like QA hell.
3) not scaling is bad.
4) building images that do not boot is bad.

I do not know much about all this, so do not listen to me.

And I am interested in trying mdev.

Philip

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Re: [RFC] removing DISTRO_* vars from task-boot

[Marcin Juszkiewicz]

On Tuesday 17 of February 2009 13:26:34 Koen Kooi wrote:

> Lately I have been wondering how to change the /dev manager on a per
> image base, since I want udev for most images and busybox-mdev for
> special-purpose stuff. The catch is that I want to keep using
> task-boot for both.

> There are various ways we could attack this:
>
> 1) The image.bbclass way:

+1 for it

> 2) Make task-boot nostamp

No!

> 3) Have task-boot.bb create task-boot-mdev and task-boot-udev

sounds better then 2) but has same problems as 1) so I will not go that 
way.

> 4) Move the vars to RRECOMMENDS and filter them out with
> BAD_RECOMMENDATIONS

No!


Regards, 
-- 
JID:      hrw@jabber.org
Website:  http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcinjuszkiewicz