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From: michael@optusnet.com.au
To: John Richard Moser <nigelenki@comcast.net>
Cc: michael@optusnet.com.au,
	"Marcos D. Marado Torres" <marado@student.dei.uc.pt>,
	Ed Tomlinson <edt@aei.ca>, Massimo Cetra <mcetra@navynet.it>,
	"'Chuck Ebbert'" <76306.1226@compuserve.com>,
	"'Bill Davidsen'" <davidsen@tmr.com>,
	"'William Lee Irwin III'" <wli@holomorphy.com>,
	"'linux-kernel'" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: My thoughts on the "new development model"
Date: 29 Oct 2004 09:19:05 +1000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <m1oeimo2hi.fsf@mo.optusnet.com.au> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <41811AF2.2000503@comcast.net>

John Richard Moser <nigelenki@comcast.net> writes:
> michael@optusnet.com.au wrote:
[...]
> | There seems to be a lot of strange notions on this concept of 'stable'.
> | The only thing that makes a kernel 'stable' is time. Not endless
> | bugfixes. Just time. The idea of stable software is software that not
> | going to give you any suprises, software that you can trust.
> |
> 
> Right.  Bugfixing the "Stable" branch ONLY will make sure it does not
> surprise you with sudden new features (which may surprise you by. . .
> breaking your own patches!).

You've missed the point. 'Bugfixing' introduces code changes, and new
bugs. Having made 'bugfix', you now need to go back and re-do much,
if not all of your testing to ensure that you haven't introduced a brand
new bug. At a simple level, to 'bugfix' means to remove 1 known bug
and introduce a random number of unknown bugs. (Could be zero with reasonable
probability; could be 50 with low probabilty. The point is that you don't
know).

This isn't helping to reduce your 'suprise' rate.

[...] 
> | Now you've got a kernel that tests clean with your app. DON'T
> | CHANGE IT!!
> |
> | Ta-Dah! You've got a stable kernel.
> |
> 
> That if I keep my realtime patches or my security enhancements or my new
> drivers or my new filesystems on and don't continuously upgrade will
> cause me to stagnate and be left behind and ignored.

Ahh. Now I get it. You don't want a stable kernel at all. You
just want to pick and chose which new features you get.

In what way is 'security enchancements', or 'new drivers', or 'new
filesystems' not the very feature enchancements you're complaining
about in 2.6?

Michael.

  parent reply	other threads:[~2004-10-28 23:23 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 115+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2004-10-26  5:40 My thoughts on the "new development model" Chuck Ebbert
2004-10-26 10:44 ` Ed Tomlinson
2004-10-26 11:09   ` Massimo Cetra
2004-10-26 12:08     ` Paolo Ciarrocchi
2004-10-26 19:03       ` Mathieu Segaud
2004-10-26 20:16         ` Let's make a small change to the process Paolo Ciarrocchi
2004-10-26 20:22           ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-10-26 20:26             ` Paolo Ciarrocchi
2004-10-26 20:33               ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-10-26 20:36           ` Dave Jones
2004-10-26 20:44             ` Paolo Ciarrocchi
2004-10-27  0:51               ` Jan Knutar
2004-10-26 20:48           ` John Richard Moser
2004-10-26 21:00             ` Paolo Ciarrocchi
2004-10-26 15:03     ` My thoughts on the "new development model" William Lee Irwin III
2004-10-26 21:19     ` Ed Tomlinson
2004-10-27  3:05       ` Marcos D. Marado Torres
2004-10-27  4:29         ` Rik van Riel
2004-10-27  5:13           ` Willy Tarreau
2004-10-27  5:23             ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-10-27  6:04               ` Willy Tarreau
2004-10-27  6:28                 ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-10-27  6:50                   ` Massimo Cetra
2004-10-27  6:56                     ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-11-16 16:43                     ` Bill Davidsen
2004-10-27 13:48               ` John Richard Moser
2004-10-27 14:57                 ` Theodore Ts'o
2004-10-27 15:35                   ` John Richard Moser
2004-10-27 19:46                     ` Marcos D. Marado Torres
2004-10-27 21:08                       ` John Richard Moser
2004-10-27 21:14                         ` Rik van Riel
2004-10-27 17:55                   ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-10-27 13:38             ` John Richard Moser
2004-10-27  5:25         ` John Richard Moser
2004-10-28  6:46           ` michael
2004-10-28  7:13             ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-10-28  7:28             ` Hacksaw
2004-10-29 21:30               ` Adrian Bunk
2004-10-28  7:57             ` Massimo Cetra
2004-10-28 16:14             ` John Richard Moser
2004-10-28 17:27               ` Theodore Ts'o
2004-10-28 23:19               ` michael [this message]
2004-10-29  0:02                 ` John Richard Moser
2004-10-27  4:26       ` Rik van Riel
2004-11-16 16:18       ` Bill Davidsen
2004-10-26 12:37   ` Barry K. Nathan
2004-10-26 14:40     ` Espen Fjellvær Olsen
2004-10-26 14:28   ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-10-26 14:41   ` Gene Heskett
2004-10-26 14:24 ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-10-27 15:27 ` Alan Cox
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2004-10-28 23:33 Chuck Ebbert
2004-10-28 23:53 ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-10-28 13:04 Chuck Ebbert
2004-10-28 13:15 ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-10-28 15:03 ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-10-28 15:07   ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-10-28 17:33   ` Alan Cox
2004-10-28 18:39     ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-10-29 13:19   ` Bill Davidsen
2004-10-29 17:49     ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-10-27 19:50 Chuck Ebbert
2004-10-27 21:40 ` Alan Cox
2004-10-28  2:59   ` Dmitry Torokhov
2004-10-28 10:16     ` Alan Cox
2004-10-27  0:00 Chuck Ebbert
2004-10-27  0:24 ` Dmitry Torokhov
2004-10-27  0:36   ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-10-27  0:36 ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-10-27  2:45   ` Marcos D. Marado Torres
2004-10-27  3:19     ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-10-27  2:47 ` Marcos D. Marado Torres
2004-10-26 16:32 Chuck Ebbert
2004-10-26 17:37 ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-10-26 15:54 Chuck Ebbert
2004-10-26 17:50 ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-10-22 20:03 My thoughts on the "new development model"(A bit late tho) Espen Fjellvær Olsen
2004-10-22 21:52 ` My thoughts on the "new development model" Espen Fjellvær Olsen
2004-10-22 22:12   ` Clemens Schwaighofer
2004-10-23 12:55     ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2004-10-24  3:04       ` Clemens Schwaighofer
2004-10-22 22:45   ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-10-22 22:50     ` Espen Fjellvær Olsen
2004-10-22 23:21       ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-10-23  0:41       ` Lee Revell
2004-10-22 22:57   ` Willy Tarreau
2004-10-23  0:09     ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-10-23  2:40       ` Lee Revell
2004-10-25 21:15       ` Bill Davidsen
2004-10-25 22:08         ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-10-26 16:12         ` Charles Shannon Hendrix
2004-10-26 16:53           ` Mark Nipper
2004-10-23  1:40     ` Adrian Bunk
2004-10-23  5:04       ` Greg KH
2004-10-26  1:07         ` Adrian Bunk
2004-10-23  5:52       ` Willy Tarreau
2004-10-23 14:18         ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-10-23 19:58       ` Kronos
2004-10-23 20:05         ` Espen Fjellvær Olsen
2004-10-22 22:58   ` Lee Revell
2004-10-22 23:21     ` Paul Fulghum
2004-10-22 23:43     ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-10-23  8:01     ` Boris Bukowski
2004-10-26 16:01   ` John Richard Moser
2004-10-26 16:44     ` John Richard Moser
2004-10-26 16:58       ` Hua Zhong
2004-10-26 18:53         ` Diego Calleja
2004-10-26 19:33           ` Paul Fulghum
2004-10-27 15:31             ` Alan Cox
2004-10-27 15:30         ` Alan Cox
2004-10-27 18:37           ` Hua Zhong
2004-10-27 21:39             ` Alan Cox
2004-10-27 16:59         ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-10-27 19:27           ` Marcos D. Marado Torres
2004-10-26 18:01     ` Stephen Hemminger
2004-10-26 18:38       ` John Richard Moser

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