kernel strange behaviour

kernel strange behaviour

[Emanoil Kotsev]

Hello, I'm new here, please be patient and correct me if I'm at the wrong place.

I have following problm.
I've recently installed a debian prebuild kernel 2.6.26.5 on my DELL D520 (Centrino Duo Core 2 with 2GB RAM).
Before I was using 2.6.26 booting from usb drive, but I was missing the ata support for my internal drive that's why I had to update.
After I installed the new kernel I'm not able to watch tv and compile in the same time or record tv and watch in the same time. I'm even not able to just record tv. tv is coming from a usb-stick, but it's irelevant, because if I run a compiler the system slows down (CPU load gets above 5).
The system is getting very slow after just few minutes. I then break the process but it takes about 15min for the system to sattle down again.

I've then downloaded 2.6.26.2 and 2.6.26.5 took the .config from the debian kernel and compiled - the same result. I noticed that the SATA drivers are compiled as modules, so I took the pure 2.6.26 compiled the SATA into the kernel and now it works fine or at least much better.

I'm going to test it with 2.6.26.5.

It would be nice if someone could give definite answer of what is the reason for this behaviour.

thank you in advance and kind regards



I then 


      

Re: kernel strange behaviour

[Jim Carter]

On Fri, 10 Oct 2008, Emanoil Kotsev wrote:

> I've recently installed a debian prebuild kernel 2.6.26.5 on my DELL D520 
> (Centrino Duo Core 2 with 2GB RAM). Before I was using 2.6.26 booting 
> from usb drive, but I was missing the ata support for my internal drive 
> that's why I had to update. After I installed the new kernel I'm not able 
> to watch tv and compile in the same time or record tv and watch in the 
> same time. I'm even not able to just record tv....

That's strange.  I have a Dell Inspiron 6400, which is basically the same 
machine but I think older: CPU is an Intel Core 2 Duo T5600 @ 1.83GHz, and 
it has 1Gb RAM.  As I'm writing this I am watching HDTV (looks like MPEG2 
containing mpgv video and a52 audio) captured by a HDHomeRun tuner 
( http://www.silicondust.com/ ) and played by VLC 
( http://www.videolan.org/vlc/ ) using the XVideo rendering interface.
At the same time I'm compiling a source package.  Here's what the "top" 
command shows me:

top - 22:07:39 up  5:47,  4 users,  load average: 1.57, 0.94, 0.53
Cpu0  : 74.5%us,  6.0%sy,  0.0%ni, 11.3%id,  1.3%wa,  2.6%hi,  4.3%si,  0.0%st
Cpu1  :  1.6%us,  1.0%sy,  0.0%ni, 97.1%id,  0.0%wa,  0.0%hi,  0.2%si,  0.0%st
Mem:   1034772k total,   863240k used,   171532k free,    46620k buffers
Swap:  2104472k total,        0k used,  2104472k free,   443000k cached

  PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND           
20276 jimc      25   0 66960  37m  21m S   57  3.7   3:33.02 vlc                
25830 root      25   0 16944  13m 4068 R   13  1.4   0:00.40 cc1                
 3094 root      15   0  111m  75m  48m S   10  7.5   4:41.71 X                  
(etc.)

So I'm using most (not all) of one core and the other is almost unused.  

In another trial a few months ago I tried an old 1.0 GHz Pentium III 
"Coppermine" with an analog TV tuner, and it could just barely compress 
(record) the video and play it back at the same time -- not satisfactory 
for a production solution but interesting as a demo.  So applying to your 
case I can't figure why your machine is so overloaded.  

You aren't doing a parallel "make", are you?  With only 2 cores and a 
commitment to TV processing, parallel "make" would only make trouble.

Suggestion: use "top" to find out what is hogging your CPU.  Sometimes you 
will find processes that count in the load average but which aren't really 
using much CPU.  The symptoms suggest thrashing (too much continuously 
moving pages between swap and main RAM) -- look at how much swap is being 
used, zero in my case.  The resident set (column headed RES) is the 
important figure for memory use, when thrashing is suspected.  

I'm surprised that your distro's kernel was unsatisfactory.  In the usual 
case that the disc driver (ata_piix in my case) is not hardwired in the 
kernel, you can use an initrd to preload it, and most distros will take 
care of building the initrd automatically and telling GRUB (the booter) to 
read it.  I assume standard Debian does so, though I've never run Debian on 
an Intel box, only ARM handhelds.  (I use OpenSuSE 10.3.)  It's possible 
but unlikely that you made a bad choice when configuring your custom 
kernel.  For example, if SMP (multiple processors) were turned off, that 
would not help at all.

I hope some of this helps!

James F. Carter          Voice 310 825 2897    FAX 310 206 6673
UCLA-Mathnet;  6115 MSA; 405 Hilgard Ave.; Los Angeles, CA, USA 90095-1555
Email: jimc@math.ucla.edu  http://www.math.ucla.edu/~jimc (q.v. for PGP key)

Re: kernel strange behaviour

[Emanoil Kotsev]

Hello Jim,

thank you for your reply here my comments and findings


--- On Sat, 10/11/08, Jim Carter <jimc@math.ucla.edu> wrote:

> 
> > I've recently installed a debian prebuild kernel
> 2.6.26.5 on my DELL D520 
> > (Centrino Duo Core 2 with 2GB RAM). Before I was using
> 2.6.26 booting 
> > from usb drive, but I was missing the ata support for
> my internal drive 
> > that's why I had to update. After I installed the
> new kernel I'm not able 
> > to watch tv and compile in the same time or record tv
> and watch in the 
> > same time. I'm even not able to just record tv....
> 
> That's strange.  I have a Dell Inspiron 6400, which is
> basically the same 
> machine but I think older: CPU is an Intel Core 2 Duo T5600
> @ 1.83GHz, and 

My one is T7200 / Core 2 Due / 2GB RAM

> it has 1Gb RAM.  As I'm writing this I am watching HDTV
> (looks like MPEG2 
> containing mpgv video and a52 audio) captured by a
> HDHomeRun tuner 
> ( http://www.silicondust.com/ ) and played by VLC 
> ( http://www.videolan.org/vlc/ ) using the XVideo rendering
> interface.
> At the same time I'm compiling a source package. 

In fact with the 2.6.26 version everything works fine. Did you use the kernel DVB drivers and what kind of card do you have? My one is Hauppauge HVR-900 with em28xx(_dvb)

I'm using mplayer and mencoder to do the job. The odd thing is that after I upgraded to 2.6.26.5 ( I patched the 2.6.26 kernel ) it stopped working.
Another thing I'm observing now is that if I compile SATA into the kernel it works more smoothly.
Does your machine has SATA - may be it has something to do with DMA or IRQ or I don't know what - I'm not so good in hardware

> Here's what the "top" 
> command shows me:
> 
> top - 22:07:39 up  5:47,  4 users,  load average: 1.57,
> 0.94, 0.53
> Cpu0  : 74.5%us,  6.0%sy,  0.0%ni, 11.3%id,  1.3%wa, 
> 2.6%hi,  4.3%si,  0.0%st
> Cpu1  :  1.6%us,  1.0%sy,  0.0%ni, 97.1%id,  0.0%wa, 
> 0.0%hi,  0.2%si,  0.0%st
> Mem:   1034772k total,   863240k used,   171532k free,   
> 46620k buffers
> Swap:  2104472k total,        0k used,  2104472k free,  
> 443000k cached
> 
>   PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+
>  COMMAND           
> 20276 jimc      25   0 66960  37m  21m S   57  3.7  
> 3:33.02 vlc                
> 25830 root      25   0 16944  13m 4068 R   13  1.4  
> 0:00.40 cc1                
>  3094 root      15   0  111m  75m  48m S   10  7.5  
> 4:41.71 X                  
> (etc.)

I have had a look at top (I have about 9-10 year linux experience, so I know how to basically track things down) but couldn't figure out why it's slowing down.

> 
> So I'm using most (not all) of one core and the other
> is almost unused.  
> 
> In another trial a few months ago I tried an old 1.0 GHz
> Pentium III 
> "Coppermine" with an analog TV tuner, and it
> could just barely compress 
> (record) the video and play it back at the same time -- not
> satisfactory 
> for a production solution but interesting as a demo.  So
> applying to your 
> case I can't figure why your machine is so overloaded. 

I had a feeling that the machine switched to Pentium I :-)

> 
> 
> You aren't doing a parallel "make", are you? 

What is parallel make? I tried to compile the kernel. I even tried to compile the kernel without watching tv and in about 10minutes everything was so slow that I couldn't scroll the console.

> With only 2 cores and a 
> commitment to TV processing, parallel "make"
> would only make trouble.
> 
> Suggestion: use "top" to find out what is hogging
> your CPU.  Sometimes you 
> will find processes that count in the load average but
> which aren't really 
> using much CPU.  The symptoms suggest thrashing (too much
> continuously 
> moving pages between swap and main RAM) -- look at how much
> swap is being 
> used, zero in my case.  The resident set (column headed
> RES) is the 
> important figure for memory use, when thrashing is
> suspected.  

thanks I don't understand most of this but I too have a suspission that there is some memory stuff going on as the CPU meter shows 1000Hz most the time and top does not indicate that some program is using that much CPU except gcc which would use as much from the band wide as possible.

In my case swap is also 0 used and I even have  about 1GB RAM free

> 
> I'm surprised that your distro's kernel was
> unsatisfactory.  In the usual 
> case that the disc driver (ata_piix in my case) is not
> hardwired in the 
> kernel, you can use an initrd to preload it, and most
> distros will take 
> care of building the initrd automatically and telling GRUB
> (the booter) to 
> read it.  I assume standard Debian does so, though I've
> never run Debian on 
> an Intel box, only ARM handhelds.  (I use OpenSuSE 10.3.) 
> It's possible 
> but unlikely that you made a bad choice when configuring
> your custom 
> kernel.  For example, if SMP (multiple processors) were
> turned off, that 
> would not help at all.

Well, I recompiled the kernel after I figured out that I have the problem in fact I played about a week with it to findi out that if I compile ata_piix into the kernel things get better. But not much better with 2.6.26.5. I am using initrd my root and data partitions are encrypted. Debian kernel also uses initrd. In fact the debian kernel performs better than the one compiled by me and what is really odd I took the .config from the debian one, didn't change anything and build the same version 2.6.26.5
When I start xmms (mp3 player) it plays few seconds than stops then plays further ...
Crazy thing.

here are the results of top without compiling - just recording and playing

top - 11:29:50 up 16 min,  1 user,  load average: 2.40, 1.96, 1.28
Tasks: 166 total,   1 running, 165 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
Cpu(s): 66.4%us, 13.8%sy,  0.0%ni, 19.6%id,  0.2%wa,  0.0%hi,  0.0%si,  0.0%st
Mem:   2066920k total,   714280k used,  1352640k free,    17576k buffers
Swap:  1469908k total,        0k used,  1469908k free,   346852k cached

  PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
 5737 emanoil   20   0 66732  15m 5872 S   84  0.8   5:11.91 mencoder
 6019 emanoil   20   0 61256  26m  15m S   10  1.3   0:03.56 gmplayer
 4154 root      20   0  312m  47m 5816 S    5  2.3   0:34.02 Xorg
 5251 emanoil   20   0 33688  15m  11m S    2  0.8   0:07.16 konsole
 5213 emanoil   20   0 22100 7148 5328 S    1  0.3   0:03.00 artsd
 1345 root      15  -5     0    0    0 S    1  0.0   0:01.28 kcryptd
 5183 emanoil   20   0 31676  11m 9200 S    1  0.6   0:00.94 kwin
 5812 emanoil   20   0  2436 1152  852 R    1  0.1   0:00.68 top
    1 root      20   0  1808  832  608 S    0  0.0   0:01.18 init
------------------

This is with compiling the kernel after about 5minutes

top - 11:40:15 up 26 min,  1 user,  load average: 5.45, 4.21, 2.73
Tasks: 175 total,   3 running, 172 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
Cpu(s): 91.1%us,  7.9%sy,  0.0%ni,  0.0%id,  0.0%wa,  0.9%hi,  0.1%si,  0.0%st
Mem:   2066920k total,   904816k used,  1162104k free,    42548k buffers
Swap:  1469908k total,        0k used,  1469908k free,   480544k cached

  PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
 5737 emanoil   20   0 66628  15m 5872 S   82  0.8  13:18.44 mencoder
 6019 emanoil   20   0 64072  29m  15m R   46  1.5   1:45.38 gmplayer
15287 emanoil   20   0 14200 8800 2172 R   29  0.4   0:01.68 cc1
 4154 root      20   0  312m  47m 5816 S   17  2.4   1:16.74 Xorg
 5265 emanoil   20   0 69252  36m  11m S    5  1.8   0:13.61 skype
 5251 emanoil   20   0 36820  18m  11m S    4  0.9   0:18.92 konsole
15270 emanoil   20   0  2440 1160  852 R    3  0.1   0:00.92 top
 1345 root      15  -5     0    0    0 S    2  0.0   0:04.96 kcryptd
 4501 haldaemo  20   0  6364 4348 3564 S    2  0.2   0:01.12 hald
 5483 emanoil   20   0 34344  14m  11m S    2  0.7   0:03.50 konsole
   49 root      15  -5     0    0    0 S    1  0.0   0:00.16 kblockd/0
  142 root      15  -5     0    0    0 S    1  0.0   0:00.86 ata/0
 2581 root      18  -2  1740  472  396 S    1  0.0   0:01.06 ifplugd
 4008 syslog    20   0  1936  644  512 S    1  0.0   0:00.32 syslogd
 4061 root      20   0  1872  536  444 S    1  0.0   0:01.38 dd
 4487 root      20   0  2020  768  668 S    1  0.0   0:00.06 dhcdbd
 4649 root      20   0  3420 1144  988 S    1  0.1   0:00.56 hald-addon-stor
 5213 emanoil   20   0 21992 7040 5220 S    1  0.3   0:03.62 artsd
 5217 emanoil   20   0 24528  10m 9056 S    1  0.5   0:01.08 kcpuload
 5245 emanoil   20   0 47172  12m  10m S    1  0.6   0:00.81 skim
 5287 emanoil   20   0 36476  10m 7336 S    1  0.5   0:00.16 knotify
15289 root      20   0  1772  500  424 S    1  0.0   0:00.02 hal-system-kill
 5463 emanoil   20   0  144m  43m  22m S    0  2.2   0:11.37 firefox-bin
    1 root      20   0  1808  832  608 S    0  0.0   0:01.18 init

-------------------

This is with 2.6.26 (not 2.6.26.5) compiling recording and watching

top - 12:03:21 up 15 min,  1 user,  load average: 4.29, 3.41, 1.82
Tasks: 173 total,   3 running, 170 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
Cpu(s): 94.7%us,  4.7%sy,  0.0%ni,  0.7%id,  0.0%wa,  0.0%hi,  0.0%si,  0.0%st
Mem:   2066748k total,   785604k used,  1281144k free,    27836k buffers
Swap:  1469908k total,        0k used,  1469908k free,   377500k cached

  PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
 6962 emanoil   20   0 68264  16m 5880 S   93  0.8   8:33.07 mencoder
 6992 emanoil   20   0 61592  26m  15m S   14  1.3   1:43.88 gmplayer
 5461 root      20   0  317m  52m 5708 S    6  2.6   0:51.16 Xorg
13594 emanoil   20   0 12996 6928 2156 R    3  0.3   0:00.10 cc1
 6624 emanoil   20   0 35968  16m  11m S    2  0.8   0:16.95 konsole
 2221 root      15  -5     0    0    0 S    1  0.0   0:03.49 kcryptd
 6489 emanoil   20   0 67252  34m  11m S    1  1.7   0:12.17 skype
 5802 haldaemo  20   0  6504 4392 3568 S    0  0.2   0:01.05 hald
 6953 emanoil   20   0 34296  14m  11m S    0  0.7   0:02.50 konsole
12693 emanoil   20   0  2440 1156  852 R    0  0.1   0:00.76 top
13334 emanoil   20   0  3584 1332  788 S    0  0.1   0:00.07 make
    1 root      20   0  2844 1688  544 S    0  0.1   0:01.09 init


I will try the programs suggested by you - somehow I don't like the vlc player

Can you suggest something  (some kernel option) to debug?

regards


      

Re: kernel strange behaviour

[Thorny]

On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 02:42:47 -0700, Emanoil Kotsev wrote:

> 
> Hello, I'm new here, please be patient and correct me if I'm at the wrong
> place.
>

Hello Emanoil,
I recognise your name from the Kubuntu users list but I don't know if that
is a common name in your location so you might not be the same Emanoil.

Patience is usually optional. (laugh) However, you can be confident that
if you are in the wrong place someone will come along to tell you, they
might even yell at you for it.

> I have following problm.
> I've recently installed a debian prebuild kernel 2.6.26.5 on my DELL
> D520 (Centrino Duo Core 2 with 2GB RAM).

As above, is this your Kubuntu installation that you are talking about? If
so, my question would be why have you chosen to install a Debian
prebuild kernel? Kubuntu is based on Debian (the unstable branch) but that
does not necessarily mean you can mix and match (mix together) packages
from both. I don't know specifically if there is any difference that might
cause the symptoms you're experiencing but that would be one of the things
I would consider first. If you're using Kubuntu, it would probably be more
productive to try with a prebuilt (and properly configured for the OS)
Kubuntu kernel package. Once again, I have not looked at the .configs to
see if there are differences but a .config for a Debian kernel *might* be
different from a Kubuntu kernel.

Naturally, if this is not a Kubuntu install that you are posting about,
ignore my reply but if it is, then that should probably be mentioned
along with the system specs and kernel version which you did post.

I agree with poster Jim Carter, the kernel furnished with your distro
should have the ATA support that you are trying to get. Perhaps there is
some other issue which we have not yet explored. 

Re: kernel strange behaviour

[Emanoil Kotsev]

--- On Sat, 10/11/08, Thorny <thorntreehome@gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Thorny <thorntreehome@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: kernel strange behaviour
> To: linux-laptop@vger.kernel.org
> Date: Saturday, October 11, 2008, 4:53 PM
> On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 02:42:47 -0700, Emanoil Kotsev wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Hello, I'm new here, please be patient and correct
> me if I'm at the wrong
> > place.
> >
> 
> Hello Emanoil,
> I recognise your name from the Kubuntu users list but I
> don't know if that
> is a common name in your location so you might not be the
> same Emanoil.

Yes it's me the same and one and only :-) Nice to meet you here

> 
> Patience is usually optional. (laugh) However, you can be
> confident that
> if you are in the wrong place someone will come along to
> tell you, they
> might even yell at you for it.
> 
> > I have following problm.
> > I've recently installed a debian prebuild kernel
> 2.6.26.5 on my DELL
> > D520 (Centrino Duo Core 2 with 2GB RAM).
> 
> As above, is this your Kubuntu installation that you are
> talking about? If
> so, my question would be why have you chosen to install a
> Debian
> prebuild kernel? Kubuntu is based on Debian (the unstable
> branch) but that
> does not necessarily mean you can mix and match (mix
> together) packages
> from both. I don't know specifically if there is any
> difference that might
> cause the symptoms you're experiencing but that would
> be one of the things
> I would consider first. If you're using Kubuntu, it
> would probably be more
> productive to try with a prebuilt (and properly configured
> for the OS)
> Kubuntu kernel package. Once again, I have not looked at
> the .configs to
> see if there are differences but a .config for a Debian
> kernel *might* be
> different from a Kubuntu kernel.

I've tried this on debian too - the same result. The prestory is pretty ling one.

I've been using Suse 10.2 for 2 years installed on the built-in drive (this for office use) and I was booting from USB drive a debian system at home.

I've got a new wider screen at work and Suse 10.2 did not manage (in fact the X server that comes with it) to get the notebooks disppplay together with the external one working, so that's why I decided to install kubuntu, cause it seems to be optimesed for desktop (notebook).
On the usb drive I was using a custom 2.6.26 without ata/sata compiled and recording/playing/compiling works fine

I tought it's nice to upgrade a bit but got stuck with this ugly slow down.

Then I installed the debian 2.6.26 on debian and it worked better (also with sata as module) so that's why I installed it on kubuntu too. It works the same there, but still on both installations it slows down a bit also with the debian prebuild

> 
> Naturally, if this is not a Kubuntu install that you are
> posting about,
> ignore my reply but if it is, then that should probably be
> mentioned
> along with the system specs and kernel version which you
> did post.

I didn't mention the system type because behaviour is the same. Kubuntu does not offer 2.6.26 (last time I've looked at was few days ago) and I have few things that I'm missing in 2.6.24, which comes with kubuntu

> 
> I agree with poster Jim Carter, the kernel furnished with
> your distro
> should have the ATA support that you are trying to get.
> Perhaps there is
> some other issue which we have not yet explored. 

Yes I need a good advice to track it down, cause everything looks fine with 2.6.26 (though there is a little slow down), but with 2.6.26.5 it's impossible to work.

I repeat it's absolutely the same config file, so may be it's a compiler issue or alike, what do you think?

I could take the config from the 2.6.26 without sata and compile again and see what happens but I'm wondering if tehre is not a better way to track it down.

thanks in advance



      

Re: kernel strange behaviour

[Thorny]

[edit]

[EK]>> > I have following problm.
>> > I've recently installed a debian prebuild kernel
>> 2.6.26.5 on my DELL
>> > D520 (Centrino Duo Core 2 with 2GB RAM).
>> 
[Thorny]>> As above, is this your Kubuntu installation that you are
talking about?
>> If
>> so, my question would be why have you chosen to install a Debian
>> prebuild kernel? Kubuntu is based on Debian (the unstable branch) but
>> that
>> does not necessarily mean you can mix and match (mix together) packages
>> from both. I don't know specifically if there is any difference that
>> might
>> cause the symptoms you're experiencing but that would be one of the
>> things
>> I would consider first. If you're using Kubuntu, it would probably be
>> more
>> productive to try with a prebuilt (and properly configured for the OS)
>> Kubuntu kernel package. Once again, I have not looked at the .configs
>> to see if there are differences but a .config for a Debian kernel
>> *might* be
>> different from a Kubuntu kernel.
> 
[EK]> I've tried this on debian too - the same result. The prestory is
pretty
> ling one.
> 
> I've been using Suse 10.2 for 2 years installed on the built-in drive
> (this for office use) and I was booting from USB drive a debian system
> at home.
> 
> I've got a new wider screen at work and Suse 10.2 did not manage (in
> fact the X server that comes with it) to get the notebooks disppplay
> together with the external one working, so that's why I decided to
> install kubuntu, cause it seems to be optimesed for desktop (notebook).
> On the usb drive I was using a custom 2.6.26 without ata/sata compiled
> and recording/playing/compiling works fine
> 
> I tought it's nice to upgrade a bit but got stuck with this ugly slow
> down.
> 
> Then I installed the debian 2.6.26 on debian and it worked better (also
> with sata as module) so that's why I installed it on kubuntu too. It
> works the same there, but still on both installations it slows down a
> bit also with the debian prebuild
> 

Hummmmm! I know from the other list that English is not your first
language and I am having a bit of trouble understanding, so have patience
with me. When I read the above, it seems that you are saying that for some
reason you had a custom kernel and thought it would be a good idea to
upgrade it. I don't understand why you had a custom kernel in the first
place. I also, sometimes, hang around over in the Kubuntu forum and I just
checked, there are a couple of people over there who are running Kubuntu
8.04 on the Dell D520 with the kernel that ships with 8.04 so, once again,
I don't see why you need a custom kernel. Perhaps there is some other
issue involved here. 

[edit]

[EK]> I didn't mention the system type because behaviour is the same.
Kubuntu
> does not offer 2.6.26 (last time I've looked at was few days ago) and I
> have few things that I'm missing in 2.6.24, which comes with kubuntu
> 

What are those "few things" you are "missing", since other people with the
same D520 are using the stock kernel, I can't think what would be
missing? What happened when you tried to install with the stock kernel?

[edit]

[EK]> Yes I need a good advice to track it down, cause everything looks
fine
> with 2.6.26 (though there is a little slow down), but with 2.6.26.5 it's
> impossible to work.
> 

I am not a kernel expert so someone else may have to figure that out. I
don't upgrade kernels just because I can find a newer one somewhere. In
fact, it has been years since I compiled a kernel, I don't have any new
hardware that requires it and, it seems to me with today's modern
processors, any speed improvements by custom compiling seem like they
would be minimal as compared to the days when processors ran at 133MHz
with 16MB RAM. Perhaps I'm lazy but I like to use the nice stable
prebuilt kernel debs.

Re: kernel strange behaviour

[Emanoil Kotsev]

--- On Sun, 10/12/08, Thorny <thorntreehome@gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Thorny <thorntreehome@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: kernel strange behaviour
> To: linux-laptop@vger.kernel.org
> Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 12:48 PM
> [edit]

> 
> What are those "few things" you are
> "missing", since other people with the
> same D520 are using the stock kernel, I can't think
> what would be
> missing? What happened when you tried to install with the
> stock kernel?
> 
First of all I've always compiled my own kernel and optimized the configuration. If you have a look into the stock kernel config you'll see why. I didn't install kubuntu kernel at all. In the debian one I see CPU = Pentuim M, but myone is Core 2, so I think it's enough reason to explain why I preffer custom kernel.
In my 9-10 years of linux expereience I've been using always custom and it was always good choice.
In second place I have a uvcvideo webcam the drivers are included in the 2.6.26. The third reason is that I have a VMplayer and didn't manage to build it with the on stock kernel .... and finally I'm following the advice of the kernel people to install the latest and to test just for to bug them with my questions ;-)

If you do not have kernel experience I doubt you know more than me and you'll be able to help me. If it would be an easy question most probably I should have fixed it myself

thanks and regards


      

Re: kernel strange behaviour

[Thorny]

On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 22:55:14 -0700, Emanoil Kotsev wrote:

> --- On Sun, 10/12/08, Thorny <thorntreehome@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> From: Thorny <thorntreehome@gmail.com> Subject: Re: kernel strange
>> behaviour To: linux-laptop@vger.kernel.org
>> Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 12:48 PM [edit]
> 
> 
>> What are those "few things" you are
>> "missing", since other people with the same D520 are using the stock
>> kernel, I can't think what would be
>> missing? What happened when you tried to install with the stock kernel?
>> 
> First of all I've always compiled my own kernel and optimized the
> configuration. If you have a look into the stock kernel config you'll see
> why. I didn't install kubuntu kernel at all. In the debian one I see CPU =
> Pentuim M, but myone is Core 2, so I think it's enough reason to explain
> why I preffer custom kernel. In my 9-10 years of linux expereience I've
> been using always custom and it was always good choice. In second place I
> have a uvcvideo webcam the drivers are included in the 2.6.26. The third
> reason is that I have a VMplayer and didn't manage to build it with the on
> stock kernel .... and finally I'm following the advice of the kernel
> people to install the latest and to test just for to bug them with my
> questions ;-)
> 
> If you do not have kernel experience I doubt you know more than me and
> you'll be able to help me. If it would be an easy question most probably I
> should have fixed it myself
> 
> thanks and regards

You are welcome. A custom kernel is a good choice except in the instance
in which it doesn't work, like now.

What I don't understand is, if you are "following the advice of the kernel
people", why are you asking for advice here rather than on a kernel
developers list. It seems like you would get better advice from more
knowledgeable people that way. 

I agree with your assessment, I doubt I know as much as you about it and I
certainly don't have any hardware that requires such a new kernel version.

Regards to you also Emanoil.

Re: kernel strange behaviour

[Thorny]

While I was somewhere else surfing I noticed that current kernel
development is at 2.6.27-rc9, perhaps using a later kernel than the one
you are using could give the results you want.

Re: kernel strange behaviour

[Emanoil Kotsev]

--- On Mon, 10/13/08, Thorny <thorntreehome@gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Thorny <thorntreehome@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: kernel strange behaviour
> To: linux-laptop@vger.kernel.org
> Date: Monday, October 13, 2008, 7:09 PM
> While I was somewhere else surfing I noticed that current
> kernel
> development is at 2.6.27-rc9, perhaps using a later kernel
> than the one
> you are using could give the results you want.
> 

I had a discussion with the kernel guys few months ago because of an other issue. There is no way that I install a RC on my production machine. I still may give it a try, but  still it's bugging me why it's working like this. 

I think I should try another capturing software like may be gstreamer to have a work around but still question is not answered. 

I have few projects to accomplish until mid of Nov. I think I'll play with it afterwrds.

Obviously no one except you reads this tread or has a better suggestion.

Thanks for trying to help


      

Re: kernel strange behaviour

[Emanoil Kotsev]

--- On Mon, 10/13/08, Thorny <thorntreehome@gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Thorny <thorntreehome@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: kernel strange behaviour
> To: linux-laptop@vger.kernel.org
> Date: Monday, October 13, 2008, 2:09 PM
> On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 22:55:14 -0700, Emanoil Kotsev wrote:
> 
> > --- On Sun, 10/12/08, Thorny
> <thorntreehome@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> From: Thorny <thorntreehome@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: kernel strange
> >> behaviour To: linux-laptop@vger.kernel.org
> >> Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 12:48 PM [edit]
> > 
> > 
> >> What are those "few things" you are
> >> "missing", since other people with the
> same D520 are using the stock
> >> kernel, I can't think what would be
> >> missing? What happened when you tried to install
> with the stock kernel?
> >> 
> > First of all I've always compiled my own kernel
> and optimized the
> > configuration. If you have a look into the stock
> kernel config you'll see
> > why. I didn't install kubuntu kernel at all. In
> the debian one I see CPU =
> > Pentuim M, but myone is Core 2, so I think it's
> enough reason to explain
> > why I preffer custom kernel. In my 9-10 years of linux
> expereience I've
> > been using always custom and it was always good
> choice. In second place I
> > have a uvcvideo webcam the drivers are included in the
> 2.6.26. The third
> > reason is that I have a VMplayer and didn't manage
> to build it with the on
> > stock kernel .... and finally I'm following the
> advice of the kernel
> > people to install the latest and to test just for to
> bug them with my
> > questions ;-)
> > 
> > If you do not have kernel experience I doubt you know
> more than me and
> > you'll be able to help me. If it would be an easy
> question most probably I
> > should have fixed it myself
> > 
> > thanks and regards
> 
> You are welcome. A custom kernel is a good choice except in
> the instance
> in which it doesn't work, like now.
> 
> What I don't understand is, if you are "following
> the advice of the kernel
> people", why are you asking for advice here rather
> than on a kernel
> developers list. It seems like you would get better advice
> from more
> knowledgeable people that way. 
> 
> I agree with your assessment, I doubt I know as much as you
> about it and I
> certainly don't have any hardware that requires such a
> new kernel version.
> 
> Regards to you also Emanoil.
> 

I didn't want to subscribe the kernel dev list, because it has a lot of postings and it will flood my mailbox ... and until 8.Nov I don't have time to play with it anyway ... just looking for an opinion and a sign of life here and may be a good advice.

I could compile and test with 2.6.27 after Nov. 8th and then I'll have time to bug the kernel people - they convinced me they know what they are doing so I trust them

I'm using a notebook, so I was thinking linux-notebooks/laptop on vger.kernl.org should be somehow connected to kernel development - isn't it ?

About the hardware ... yeah I could compile against the 2.6.24 headers from kubuntu - but why should I if I'm compiling any way. Besides from my experience as you also agree a little bit optimiziation is worth - and finally I can compile stuff - the prebuild is for people that can't

I should admit I fell on my nose for few times, especially with the usb stuff mainly because I've been using 2.4.X and 2.6.X was new to me and than got excellent support from the usb-dev  group who are also kernel dev people. Though some of the things they couldn't explain, my problems are gone ... and I had time to bug the kubuntu people :-D
(don't tell them this :-) ok )

I usually bug anybody untill I get a fully  101% working system and then use it for few years or untill the hardware dies and can not be replaced.

But I thought it's time to profit from webcam + skype and USB-TV and so mainly crypto stuff that's included in 2.6X, so I had to update not only my notebook but also my servers ...

So what's this list all about

Kind regards



      

Re: kernel strange behaviour

[Thorny]

On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 15:05:59 -0700, Emanoil Kotsev wrote:

>> 
> I didn't want to subscribe the kernel dev list, because it has a lot of
> postings and it will flood my mailbox ... and until 8.Nov I don't have
> time to play with it anyway ... just looking for an opinion and a sign of
> life here and may be a good advice.
>

Well then, why not read the dev list through the gmane interface with a
newsreader that properly threads the posts and makes it easier to find
what you are interested in? That's the way I do it and I don't get any
flood of emails (except the ones you CC to me even though I didn't request
that you do that).

 
> I'm using a notebook, so I was thinking linux-notebooks/laptop on
> vger.kernl.org should be somehow connected to kernel development - isn't
> it ?
> 

Huh? You're running a production server on a laptop?

Re: kernel strange behaviour

[Thorny]

On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 14:11:24 -0700, Emanoil Kotsev wrote:
> I had a discussion with the kernel guys few months ago because of an other
> issue. There is no way that I install a RC on my production machine. I
> still may give it a try, but  still it's bugging me why it's working like
> this.
> 

I was just telling you what they were up to, not suggesting you install
an rc. But of course, it does bring up the question, why are you
experimenting on a production server, that's not considered good
practice. You might want to read what Linus T. says about the kernel on
Oct 6 over on LKML, it's pretty close to release:
http://lkml.org/lkml/2008/10/6/300


> 
> Obviously no one except you reads this tread or has a better suggestion.
> 

Those are two of the possible reasons, there could be others. I know you
got into a heated argument with some people over in the kubuntu list,
maybe they have plonked you totally and don't see your posts anywhere.
But, this does appear to be a low volume location.

Re: kernel strange behaviour

[Emanoil Kotsev]

--- On Tue, 10/14/08, Thorny <thorntreehome@gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Thorny <thorntreehome@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: kernel strange behaviour
> To: linux-laptop@vger.kernel.org
> Date: Tuesday, October 14, 2008, 12:43 PM
> On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 14:11:24 -0700, Emanoil Kotsev wrote:
> > I had a discussion with the kernel guys few months ago
> because of an other
> > issue. There is no way that I install a RC on my
> production machine. I
> > still may give it a try, but  still it's bugging
> me why it's working like
> > this.
> > 
> 
> I was just telling you what they were up to, not suggesting
> you install
> an rc. But of course, it does bring up the question, why
> are you
> experimenting on a production server, that's not
> considered good
> practice. You might want to read what Linus T. says about
> the kernel on
> Oct 6 over on LKML, it's pretty close to release:
> http://lkml.org/lkml/2008/10/6/300
> 

Thanks, for this, appreciate sharing ideas, as some people read things in one direction and other in another. I'll have a look at it tomorrow.

I need my notebook in good shape on dayly basis. I have a lot of sensitive data there and I don't want to go into trouble. Next month I'll put inside another harddrive where I can play with it ... or backup my data, but untill then I'm too preoccupied

> 
> > 
> > Obviously no one except you reads this tread or has a
> better suggestion.
> > 
> 
> Those are two of the possible reasons, there could be
> others. I know you
> got into a heated argument with some people over in the
> kubuntu list,
> maybe they have plonked you totally and don't see your
> posts anywhere.
> But, this does appear to be a low volume location.
> 

In fact  I appreciate discussing with you anyway. I am just guessing what the reason could be.
I don't think anything that bad has happened on the kubuntu list, so that someone has "plonked" me ... but even this has happened it's ok for me.

Yes it seems it is a low volume location to me ... I picked it up on purpose ... may be the fate wanted us to meet :-D

regards


      

Re: kernel strange behaviour

[Emanoil Kotsev]

--- On Tue, 10/14/08, Thorny <thorntreehome@gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Thorny <thorntreehome@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: kernel strange behaviour
> To: linux-laptop@vger.kernel.org
> Date: Tuesday, October 14, 2008, 12:43 PM
> On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 15:05:59 -0700, Emanoil Kotsev wrote:
> 
> >> 
> > I didn't want to subscribe the kernel dev list,
> because it has a lot of
> > postings and it will flood my mailbox ... and until
> 8.Nov I don't have
> > time to play with it anyway ... just looking for an
> opinion and a sign of
> > life here and may be a good advice.
> >
> 
> Well then, why not read the dev list through the gmane
> interface with a
> newsreader that properly threads the posts and makes it
> easier to find
> what you are interested in? That's the way I do it and
> I don't get any
> flood of emails (except the ones you CC to me even though I
> didn't request
> that you do that).

thanks for the advise ... I'll have to try it. Didn't know such thing is possible ... though I've been reading few newsgroups in the past. Will have to have a look at it.

> 
>  
> > I'm using a notebook, so I was thinking
> linux-notebooks/laptop on
> > vger.kernl.org should be somehow connected to kernel
> development - isn't
> > it ?
> > 
> 
> Huh? You're running a production server on a laptop?
> 

no. things got mixed up here .... I mean production machine ... on the notbook all my company data is stored, so I had enough headake with this slow down for few days ... I just preffer to be on the safe side.

I explained in the other mail what I'm planning to do as soon as those time consuming projects are over.

regards


      

Re: kernel strange behaviour

[Emanoil Kotsev]

--- On Tue, 10/14/08, Thorny <thorntreehome@gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Thorny <thorntreehome@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: kernel strange behaviour
> To: linux-laptop@vger.kernel.org
> Date: Tuesday, October 14, 2008, 12:43 PM
> On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 15:05:59 -0700, Emanoil Kotsev wrote:
> 
> >> 
> > I didn't want to subscribe the kernel dev list,
> because it has a lot of
> > postings and it will flood my mailbox ... and until
> 8.Nov I don't have
> > time to play with it anyway ... just looking for an
> opinion and a sign of
> > life here and may be a good advice.
> >
> 
> Well then, why not read the dev list through the gmane
> interface with a
> newsreader that properly threads the posts and makes it
> easier to find
> what you are interested in? That's the way I do it and
> I don't get any
> flood of emails (except the ones you CC to me even though I
> didn't request
> that you do that).
> 
>  
> > I'm using a notebook, so I was thinking
> linux-notebooks/laptop on
> > vger.kernl.org should be somehow connected to kernel
> development - isn't
> > it ?
> > 
> 
> Huh? You're running a production server on a laptop?
> 
> 

I've searched a bit and found knode pretty handy for that

Thanks, this will make my life much easier.

I owe you a drink

regards