Fwd: RE: To ESS Tech Support

Fwd: RE: To ESS Tech Support

[Warren Turkal]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 272 bytes --]

Here is another response from ESS about specs for ES1988 (maestro3/allegro1). 
Could some others email them and ask for the info for thier cards, please? 
Maybe if enough of us ask, we will se some positive results.

Warren
-- 
Treasurer, GOLUM, Inc.
http://www.golum.org

[-- Attachment #2: TECHINFO <Techinfo@esstech.com>: RE: To ESS Tech Support --]
[-- Type: message/rfc822, Size: 1912 bytes --]

From: TECHINFO <Techinfo@esstech.com>
To: Warren Turkal <wturkal@cbu.edu>
Subject: RE: To ESS Tech Support
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:52:51 -0700
Message-ID: <02B8E281442ED6118527000103D16BFB01D3446E@essmail.esstech.com>

No, as to my knowledge, I don't think we have provided that kind of document
or source code before. Sorry about that! 
Regards,


 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Warren Turkal [mailto:wturkal@cbu.edu] 
Sent:	Sunday, June 15, 2003 7:44 AM
To:	TECHINFO
Subject:	Re: To ESS Tech Support

On Wednesday 11 June 2003 03:19 pm, TECHINFO wrote:
> Do you mean the source code for Window driver? It has never been open to
> the public. Sorry!
> Regards,

Is any of the neccessary documentation or source code available under an NDA

compatible with developing open source code for the Linux kernel?

Thanks, Warren
-- 
Treasurer, GOLUM, Inc.
http://www.golum.org

Re: Fwd: RE: To ESS Tech Support

[Paul Davis]

>Here is another response from ESS about specs for ES1988 (maestro3/allegro1). 
>Could some others email them and ask for the info for thier cards, please? 
>Maybe if enough of us ask, we will se some positive results.

i doubt if numbers will make much a difference.

why not just quote to them the list of audio interface manufacturers
and chipset makers who have provided the necessary information, and
then ask them if they want to part of that list or marked as
"unsupportable". the list is determinable from the matrix on the
website.

these companies (like ess) need a swipe to the head with a cluestick.


-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by: INetU
Attention Web Developers & Consultants: Become An INetU Hosting Partner.
Refer Dedicated Servers. We Manage Them. You Get 10% Monthly Commission!
INetU Dedicated Managed Hosting http://www.inetu.net/partner/index.php

Re: Fwd: RE: To ESS Tech Support

[Takashi Iwai]

At Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:39:02 -0400,
Paul Davis wrote:
> 
> >Here is another response from ESS about specs for ES1988 (maestro3/allegro1). 
> >Could some others email them and ask for the info for thier cards, please? 
> >Maybe if enough of us ask, we will se some positive results.
> 
> i doubt if numbers will make much a difference.
> 
> why not just quote to them the list of audio interface manufacturers
> and chipset makers who have provided the necessary information, and
> then ask them if they want to part of that list or marked as
> "unsupportable". the list is determinable from the matrix on the
> website.

well, it's not correct that they did NOT provide any info.
indeed, they did *minimally*.

for example, for maestro2, they gave an example (even buggy) DOS
example programs for the simple playback.
for maestro3, one of the ESS guys gave Zach Brown some information -
the mini SRC DSP code and how to access via their ASSP engine -
although the DSP engine has much much more capabilities.

it's a pity, if the ESS people think that they already did enough for
linux.  yes, it's far better than nothing, but...


Takashi


-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by: INetU
Attention Web Developers & Consultants: Become An INetU Hosting Partner.
Refer Dedicated Servers. We Manage Them. You Get 10% Monthly Commission!
INetU Dedicated Managed Hosting http://www.inetu.net/partner/index.php

Re: Fwd: RE: To ESS Tech Support

[Fred Gleason]

On Wednesday 18 June 2003 11:39, Paul Davis wrote:

> why not just quote to them the list of audio interface manufacturers
> and chipset makers who have provided the necessary information, and
> then ask them if they want to part of that list or marked as
> "unsupportable". the list is determinable from the matrix on the
> website.

From the general tenor of the responses quoted thus far, I also suspect you're 
dealing with a very junior level employee, who will likely be clueless to 
deal with any question that hasn't been "scripted" in advance.  Key here is 
going to be getting through to the decision maker(s) -- not just "level one" 
tech support.

Cheers!


|-------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|      Frederick F. Gleason, Jr.      |         Salem Radio Labs          |
|       Voice: 1-(540)-341-2880       |      87 Lee Highway, Suite 11     |
|        FAX: 1-(540)-341-7176        |        Warrenton, VA 20188        |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                  A program is a lot like a nose                         |
|                  Sometimes it runs, and sometimes it blows.             |
|                                 -- The Illiterati Programus, Canto I    |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------|



-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by: INetU
Attention Web Developers & Consultants: Become An INetU Hosting Partner.
Refer Dedicated Servers. We Manage Them. You Get 10% Monthly Commission!
INetU Dedicated Managed Hosting http://www.inetu.net/partner/index.php

Re: Fwd: RE: To ESS Tech Support

[Warren Turkal]

On Wednesday 18 June 2003 11:07 am, Fred Gleason wrote:
> From the general tenor of the responses quoted thus far, I also suspect
> you're dealing with a very junior level employee, who will likely be
> clueless to deal with any question that hasn't been "scripted" in advance. 
> Key here is going to be getting through to the decision maker(s) -- not
> just "level one" tech support.

Any suggestions on how?

Warren
-- 
Treasurer, GOLUM, Inc.
http://www.golum.org



-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by: INetU
Attention Web Developers & Consultants: Become An INetU Hosting Partner.
Refer Dedicated Servers. We Manage Them. You Get 10% Monthly Commission!
INetU Dedicated Managed Hosting http://www.inetu.net/partner/index.php

Re: Fwd: RE: To ESS Tech Support

[Giuliano Pochini]

On 18-Jun-2003 Warren Turkal wrote:
> Any suggestions on how?

Ask him the address of his boss.


Bye.



-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by: INetU
Attention Web Developers & Consultants: Become An INetU Hosting Partner.
Refer Dedicated Servers. We Manage Them. You Get 10% Monthly Commission!
INetU Dedicated Managed Hosting http://www.inetu.net/partner/index.php

Fwd: RE: To ESS Tech Support

[Warren Turkal]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 224 bytes --]

Another message from the ESS people. If some other people could take the time 
to request this info from ESS also, maybe they would be more forthcoming with 
the info.

Warren
-- 
Treasurer, GOLUM, Inc.
http://www.golum.org

[-- Attachment #2: TECHINFO <Techinfo@esstech.com>: RE: To ESS Tech Support --]
[-- Type: message/rfc822, Size: 1889 bytes --]

From: TECHINFO <Techinfo@esstech.com>
To: Warren Turkal <wturkal@cbu.edu>
Subject: RE: To ESS Tech Support
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 13:19:16 -0700
Message-ID: <02B8E281442ED6118527000103D16BFB01CA0FCC@essmail.esstech.com>

Do you mean the source code for Window driver? It has never been open to the
public. Sorry! 
Regards,


 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Warren Turkal [mailto:wturkal@cbu.edu] 
Sent:	Tuesday, June 10, 2003 10:48 PM
To:	TECHINFO
Subject:	Re: To ESS Tech Support

On Tuesday 10 June 2003 06:24 pm, TECHINFO wrote:
> Sorry, we don't have Linux driver to share with you.
> Regards,

I am not asking for a linux driver. I am asking for the source to your
windows 
driver or documentation for building a driver for the es1988/allegro1 series

cards so that they can be better supported under linux.

Warren
-- 
Treasurer, GOLUM, Inc.
http://www.golum.org

Re: Fwd: RE: To ESS Tech Support

[Måns Rullgård]

Warren Turkal <wturkal@cbu.edu> writes:

> Another message from the ESS people. If some other people could take
> the time to request this info from ESS also, maybe they would be
> more forthcoming with the info.

Tell them you want the complete specs for the chip, and are willing to
sign an NDA.  That might help.

-- 
Måns Rullgård
mru@users.sf.net



-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.NET email is sponsored by: eBay
Great deals on office technology -- on eBay now! Click here:
http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/711-11697-6916-5

Re: Re: Fwd: RE: To ESS Tech Support

[P. Christeas]

> Warren Turkal <wturkal@cbu.edu> writes:
> > Another message from the ESS people. If some other people could take
> > the time to request this info from ESS also, maybe they would be
> > more forthcoming with the info.
>
> Tell them you want the complete specs for the chip, and are willing to
> sign an NDA.  That might help.

That may not be accurate. If you're writing a driver for linux, you most 
probably want to publish it under GPL, which definitely conflicts with the 
NDA. The NDA should be about the chip only, not the driver.

The real case you should stick at (the one for any such case) is that nobody 
could actually use the linux driver without owning the product, for which 
we've paid. Tell them that by supporting (it's so easy for them) linux, they 
get themselves out of the "non-desirable" hardware list. We (linux users) 
have several lists with hw and companies we should avoid. ESS is one of them.



-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.NET email is sponsored by: eBay
Great deals on office technology -- on eBay now! Click here:
http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/711-11697-6916-5

Re: Fwd: RE: To ESS Tech Support

[Måns Rullgård]

"P. Christeas" <p_christ@hol.gr> writes:

> > Warren Turkal <wturkal@cbu.edu> writes:
> > > Another message from the ESS people. If some other people could take
> > > the time to request this info from ESS also, maybe they would be
> > > more forthcoming with the info.
> >
> > Tell them you want the complete specs for the chip, and are willing to
> > sign an NDA.  That might help.
> 
> That may not be accurate. If you're writing a driver for linux, you most 
> probably want to publish it under GPL, which definitely conflicts with the 
> NDA. The NDA should be about the chip only, not the driver.

You could get permission to release source code based on the docs.  I
got that from 3Dlabs.

> The real case you should stick at (the one for any such case) is
> that nobody could actually use the linux driver without owning the
> product, for which we've paid. Tell them that by supporting (it's so
> easy for them) linux, they get themselves out of the "non-desirable"
> hardware list. We (linux users) have several lists with hw and
> companies we should avoid. ESS is one of them.

This is of course preferred, but it doesn't always help.

-- 
Måns Rullgård
mru@users.sf.net



-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.NET email is sponsored by: eBay
Great deals on office technology -- on eBay now! Click here:
http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/711-11697-6916-5

Fwd: RE: To ESS Tech Support

[Warren Turkal]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 551 bytes --]

Dear ALSA developers,

Here is a message from ESS regarding getting some information for the 
ESS1988/Allegro-1 series cards in order to get better support for them in 
linux. I hope that some others will help me badger the ESS people in order to 
(A) release info needed to make the Linux driver or (B) release the Windows 
driver source so that it can be used for ideas for the Linux driver.

If you choose to reply to this, please CC me as I am not subscribed to this 
list.

Thanks, Warren Turkal
-- 
Treasurer, GOLUM, Inc.
http://www.golum.org



[-- Attachment #2: TECHINFO <Techinfo@esstech.com>: RE: To ESS Tech Support --]
[-- Type: message/rfc822, Size: 3078 bytes --]

From: TECHINFO <Techinfo@esstech.com>
To: wturkal@cbu.edu
Subject: RE: To ESS Tech Support
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:24:48 -0700
Message-ID: <02B8E281442ED6118527000103D16BFB01CA0CC7@essmail.esstech.com>

Sorry, we don't have Linux driver to share with you.
Regards,


 -----Original Message-----
From: 	wturkal@cbu.edu [mailto:wturkal@cbu.edu] 
Sent:	Friday, May 30, 2003 2:00 AM
To:	techinfo@esstech.com
Subject:	To ESS Tech Support

Tech Support Contact Form
---------------------------------------
PERSONAL INFORMATION:
First Name    : Warren
Last Name     : Turkal
Country    : USA
Phone Number  : 901-372-3416
Email Address : wturkal@cbu.edu

ESS Chip ID       : es1988

Windows Version?  : Linux

Product Brand & Model of PC/Notebook or Add-in Board?  : Gateway 600ygr

Current ESS Driver Version?  : Linux 2.5.70

Contacted Product Manufacturer?   : yes

Updated Driver?   : yes

Read FAQ?         : yes

Did FAQ Help?     : no

SPECIFIC PROBLEM:
Simple dsp audio i/o is supported in your es1988 under Linux, but I would
like to add full support for the card.

02:03.0 Multimedia audio controller: ESS Technology ES1988 Allegro-1 (rev
12)
        Subsystem: Gateway 2000: Unknown device 0600
        Control: I/O+ Mem- BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop-
ParErr- Stepping- SERR- FastB2B-
        Status: Cap+ 66Mhz- UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=medium >TAbort-
<TAbort- <MAbort- >SERR- <PERR-
        Latency: 64 (500ns min, 6000ns max)
        Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 5
        Region 0: I/O ports at 5000 [size=256]
        Capabilities: [c0] Power Management version 2
                Flags: PMEClk- DSI+ D1+ D2+ AuxCurrent=0mA
PME(D0-,D1+,D2+,D3hot+,D3cold-)
                Status: D0 PME-Enable- DSel=0 DScale=0 PME-

I have a technical document describing the es1988 with its registers. Do
you have a document that has help for writing a driver for the es1988 in
it? Source code to your driver would probably also make this easier, even
if the driver is for a different OS.

Please do not hesitate to email me with any questions.

Thanks, Warren

Re: Fwd: RE: To ESS Tech Support

[Allan Klinbail]

Looks like they didn't read your email...

Essentially you are offering them a favour and they see the word linux
and run away scared.. 





On Thu, 2003-06-12 at 11:54, Warren Turkal wrote:
> Dear ALSA developers,
> 
> Here is a message from ESS regarding getting some information for the 
> ESS1988/Allegro-1 series cards in order to get better support for them in 
> linux. I hope that some others will help me badger the ESS people in order to 
> (A) release info needed to make the Linux driver or (B) release the Windows 
> driver source so that it can be used for ideas for the Linux driver.
> 
> If you choose to reply to this, please CC me as I am not subscribed to this 
> list.
> 
> Thanks, Warren Turkal
-- 
Allan Klinbail <allank@labyrinth.net.au>



-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.NET email is sponsored by: eBay
Great deals on office technology -- on eBay now! Click here:
http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/711-11697-6916-5

Re: Fwd: RE: To ESS Tech Support

[Måns Rullgård]

Allan Klinbail <allank@labyrinth.net.au> writes:

> > Here is a message from ESS regarding getting some information for
> > the ESS1988/Allegro-1 series cards in order to get better support
> > for them in linux. I hope that some others will help me badger the
> > ESS people in order to (A) release info needed to make the Linux
> > driver or (B) release the Windows driver source so that it can be
> > used for ideas for the Linux driver.
> > 
> Looks like they didn't read your email...
> 
> Essentially you are offering them a favour and they see the word linux
> and run away scared.. 

It may very well have been an automatic reply triggered by the work
linux in the question.  I've seen such things before.

-- 
Måns Rullgård
mru@users.sf.net



-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.NET email is sponsored by: eBay
Great deals on office technology -- on eBay now! Click here:
http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/711-11697-6916-5