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From: "Martin K. Petersen" <martin.petersen@oracle.com>
To: Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>
Cc: Luben Tuikov <ltuikov@yahoo.com>,
	Sarah Sharp <sarah.a.sharp@linux.intel.com>,
	Jonas Schwertfeger <jschwertfeger@gmail.com>,
	USB Storage List <usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net>,
	Matthew Dharm <mdharm-usb@one-eyed-alien.net>,
	"<linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org>" <linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org>,
	Lennart Poettering <lennart@poettering.net>,
	Douglas Gilbert <dgilbert@interlog.com>,
	"<Dinh.Nguyen@freescale.com>" <Dinh.Nguyen@freescale.com>,
	Mark Lord <mlord@pobox.com>,
	Sergei Shtylyov <sshtylyov@mvista.com>,
	James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@suse.de>,
	Kay Sievers <kay.sievers@vrfy.org>,
	David Zeuthen <david@fubar.dk>,
	"<linux-hotplug@vger.kernel.org>" <linux-hotplug@vger.kernel.org>,
	"<linux-usb@vger.kernel.org>" <linux-usb@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: System hangs when using USB 3.0 HD with on Ubuntu
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 16:18:51 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <yq1fx2owzh0.fsf@sermon.lab.mkp.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.1004211205560.1728-100000@iolanthe.rowland.org> (Alan Stern's message of "Wed, 21 Apr 2010 12:09:57 -0400 (EDT)")

>>>>> "Alan" = Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu> writes:

I'm guessing Doug is out today because he didn't forward the note
below.  Just passing the info along...


>> It is needed by the transport protocol(s).

Alan> I don't understand; can you explain more fully?  Which transport
Alan> protocol(s) need to use the Sector Count?  The USB transport
Alan> protocol doesn't; it encodes the transfer length in a wrapper.
Alan> The bridge chip should interpret the wrapper instead of looking
Alan> inside the SAT command.

Doug posted to the T10 list and here's what Jim Hatfield from Seagate
responded:

     For ATA (SATA or PATA), the Count field should NEVER be zero,
     because neither interface supports zero-length data transfer for
     any protocol (dma, pio, etc).

     In ATA, 'N/A' is defined the way it is because there are some
     ancient implementations for which there are vendor specific
     differences.

-- 
Martin K. Petersen	Oracle Linux Engineering

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: "Martin K. Petersen" <martin.petersen@oracle.com>
To: Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>
Cc: Luben Tuikov <ltuikov@yahoo.com>,
	Sarah Sharp <sarah.a.sharp@linux.intel.com>,
	Jonas Schwertfeger <jschwertfeger@gmail.com>,
	USB Storage List <usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net>,
	Matthew Dharm <mdharm-usb@one-eyed-alien.net>,
	"<linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org>" <linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org>,
	Lennart Poettering <lennart@poettering.net>,
	Douglas Gilbert <dgilbert@interlog.com>,
	"<Dinh.Nguyen@freescale.com>" <Dinh.Nguyen@freescale.com>,
	Mark Lord <mlord@pobox.com>,
	Sergei Shtylyov <sshtylyov@mvista.com>,
	James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@suse.de>,
	Kay Sievers <kay.sievers@vrfy.org>,
	David Zeuthen <david@fubar.dk>,
	"<linux-hotplug@vger.kernel.org>" <linux-hotplug@vger.kernel.org>,
	"<linux-usb@vger.kernel.org>" <linux-usb@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: System hangs when using USB 3.0 HD with on Ubuntu
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 12:18:51 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <yq1fx2owzh0.fsf@sermon.lab.mkp.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.1004211205560.1728-100000@iolanthe.rowland.org> (Alan Stern's message of "Wed, 21 Apr 2010 12:09:57 -0400 (EDT)")

>>>>> "Alan" == Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu> writes:

I'm guessing Doug is out today because he didn't forward the note
below.  Just passing the info along...


>> It is needed by the transport protocol(s).

Alan> I don't understand; can you explain more fully?  Which transport
Alan> protocol(s) need to use the Sector Count?  The USB transport
Alan> protocol doesn't; it encodes the transfer length in a wrapper.
Alan> The bridge chip should interpret the wrapper instead of looking
Alan> inside the SAT command.

Doug posted to the T10 list and here's what Jim Hatfield from Seagate
responded:

     For ATA (SATA or PATA), the Count field should NEVER be zero,
     because neither interface supports zero-length data transfer for
     any protocol (dma, pio, etc).

     In ATA, 'N/A' is defined the way it is because there are some
     ancient implementations for which there are vendor specific
     differences.

-- 
Martin K. Petersen	Oracle Linux Engineering

  reply	other threads:[~2010-04-21 16:18 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 227+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <4BA9D74F.9040507@gmail.com>
     [not found] ` <4BA7797F.8060605@gmail.com>
     [not found]   ` <20100324155917.GA4382@xanatos>
     [not found]     ` <59ca64281003241107x40c5d83co29d1ee03d8d3a0d1@mail.gmail.com>
2010-03-26 18:40       ` System hangs when using USB 3.0 HD with on Ubuntu Sarah Sharp
2010-03-26 19:10         ` Douglas Gilbert
2010-03-26 19:27         ` [usb-storage] " Matthew Dharm
2010-03-26 20:23           ` Sarah Sharp
2010-03-26 20:55             ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-03-26 21:10         ` Alan Stern
     [not found]           ` <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.1003261705340.23253-100000-pYrvlCTfrz9XsRXLowluHWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
2010-03-26 21:30             ` Douglas Gilbert
2010-03-30  7:44               ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-03-31 11:39                 ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-03-31 11:39                   ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-03-31 14:56                   ` Alan Stern
2010-03-31 14:56                     ` Alan Stern
2010-03-31 15:20                     ` David Zeuthen
2010-03-31 15:20                       ` David Zeuthen
2010-03-31 16:12                       ` Douglas Gilbert
2010-03-31 16:12                         ` Douglas Gilbert
2010-03-31 16:36                         ` Alan Stern
2010-03-31 16:36                           ` Alan Stern
2010-04-01 13:32                           ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-01 13:32                             ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-01 13:42                             ` Kay Sievers
2010-04-01 13:42                               ` Kay Sievers
2010-04-01 13:55                               ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-01 13:55                                 ` Jonas Schwertfeger
     [not found]                                 ` <r2k59ca64281004010655z93fedfa8rdeb447d82a848d9f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2010-04-01 14:05                                   ` Kay Sievers
2010-04-01 14:05                                     ` Kay Sievers
2010-04-02 12:40                                     ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-02 12:40                                       ` Jonas Schwertfeger
     [not found]                                       ` <m2l59ca64281004020540z7e502130g22dfc035f1ceda6a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2010-04-02 13:09                                         ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-02 13:09                                           ` Jonas Schwertfeger
     [not found]                                           ` <t2t59ca64281004020609sa0f67f0dj5c127e3f0b2e4db2-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2010-04-02 14:12                                             ` Alan Stern
2010-04-02 14:12                                               ` Alan Stern
     [not found]                                               ` <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.1004021010130.1615-100000-IYeN2dnnYyZXsRXLowluHWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
2010-04-02 14:41                                                 ` James Bottomley
2010-04-02 14:41                                                   ` James Bottomley
     [not found]                                                   ` <1270219267.2899.73.camel-0iu6Cu4xQGLYCGPCin2YbQ@public.gmane.org>
2010-04-02 14:57                                                     ` Alan Stern
2010-04-02 14:57                                                       ` Alan Stern
     [not found]                                                       ` <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.1004021052040.1615-100000-IYeN2dnnYyZXsRXLowluHWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
2010-04-02 15:19                                                         ` Alan Stern
2010-04-02 15:19                                                           ` Alan Stern
     [not found]                                                           ` <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.1004021114160.1615-100000-IYeN2dnnYyZXsRXLowluHWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
2010-04-02 15:50                                                             ` Sergei Shtylyov
2010-04-02 15:50                                                               ` Sergei Shtylyov
2010-04-02 15:59                                                               ` James Bottomley
2010-04-02 15:59                                                                 ` James Bottomley
2010-04-07 18:08                                                                 ` Mark Lord
2010-04-07 18:08                                                                   ` Mark Lord
2010-04-07 18:29                                                                   ` James Bottomley
2010-04-07 18:29                                                                     ` James Bottomley
2010-04-07 19:18                                                                   ` Alan Stern
2010-04-07 19:18                                                                     ` Alan Stern
     [not found]                                                                     ` <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.1004071516260.5760-100000-IYeN2dnnYyZXsRXLowluHWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
2010-04-07 22:49                                                                       ` Mark Lord
2010-04-07 22:49                                                                         ` Mark Lord
2010-04-08  5:06                                                                         ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-08  5:06                                                                           ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-02 16:21                                                               ` Douglas Gilbert
2010-04-02 16:21                                                                 ` Douglas Gilbert
2010-04-02 16:39                                                                 ` Douglas Gilbert
2010-04-02 16:39                                                                   ` Douglas Gilbert
     [not found]                                                                   ` <4BB61DAF.7090709-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
2010-04-02 21:24                                                                     ` Mark Lord
2010-04-02 21:24                                                                       ` Mark Lord
2010-04-03  6:21                                                                       ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-03  6:21                                                                         ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-03 13:12                                                                         ` Mark Lord
2010-04-03 15:40                                                                           ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-03 15:40                                                                             ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-03 16:42                                                                             ` Alan Stern
2010-04-03 16:42                                                                               ` Alan Stern
2010-04-03 17:06                                                                               ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-03 17:06                                                                                 ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-03 20:58                                                                                 ` Alan Stern
2010-04-03 20:58                                                                                   ` Alan Stern
2010-04-04  1:29                                                                                   ` Mark Lord
2010-04-04  1:29                                                                                     ` Mark Lord
     [not found]                                                                                   ` <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.1004031648230.21507-100000-pYrvlCTfrz9XsRXLowluHWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
2010-04-06  6:43                                                                                     ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-06  6:43                                                                                       ` Jonas Schwertfeger
     [not found]                                                                                       ` <4BBAD7FF.5000605-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2010-04-06 14:49                                                                                         ` Alan Stern
2010-04-06 14:49                                                                                           ` Alan Stern
2010-04-06 14:56                                                                                           ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-06 14:56                                                                                             ` Jonas Schwertfeger
     [not found]                                                                                           ` <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.1004061048590.1722-100000-IYeN2dnnYyZXsRXLowluHWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
2010-04-07  6:27                                                                                             ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-07  6:27                                                                                               ` Jonas Schwertfeger
     [not found]                                                                                               ` <4BBC25C9.5030201-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2010-04-07 14:36                                                                                                 ` Alan Stern
2010-04-07 14:36                                                                                                   ` Alan Stern
2010-04-07 14:42                                                                                                   ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-07 14:42                                                                                                     ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-07 14:51                                                                                                     ` Jerone Young
2010-04-07 14:51                                                                                                       ` Jerone Young
2010-04-07 15:03                                                                                                     ` Alan Stern
2010-04-07 15:03                                                                                                       ` Alan Stern
2010-04-07 15:10                                                                                                       ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-07 15:10                                                                                                         ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-09 15:38                                                                                                         ` Alan Stern
2010-04-09 15:38                                                                                                           ` Alan Stern
2010-04-09 16:39                                                                                                           ` Douglas Gilbert
2010-04-09 16:39                                                                                                             ` Douglas Gilbert
     [not found]                                                                                                             ` <4BBF582F.4040707-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
2010-04-09 17:14                                                                                                               ` Sarah Sharp
2010-04-09 17:14                                                                                                                 ` Sarah Sharp
2010-04-09 18:00                                                                                                                 ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-09 18:00                                                                                                                   ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-09 19:25                                                                                                                   ` Alan Stern
2010-04-09 19:25                                                                                                                     ` Alan Stern
2010-04-09 21:54                                                                                                                     ` Sarah Sharp
2010-04-09 21:54                                                                                                                       ` Sarah Sharp
2010-04-12  7:48                                                                                                                       ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-12  7:48                                                                                                                         ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-16 18:20                                                                                                                         ` Sarah Sharp
2010-04-16 18:20                                                                                                                           ` Sarah Sharp
2010-04-16 19:25                                                                                                                           ` Alan Stern
2010-04-16 19:25                                                                                                                             ` Alan Stern
2010-04-19 21:15                                                                                                                             ` Sarah Sharp
2010-04-19 21:15                                                                                                                               ` Sarah Sharp
2010-04-20  0:25                                                                                                                               ` Mark Lord
2010-04-20  0:25                                                                                                                                 ` Mark Lord
2010-04-20  4:31                                                                                                                                 ` Mark Lord
2010-04-20  4:31                                                                                                                                   ` Mark Lord
2010-04-20 15:39                                                                                                                               ` Alan Stern
2010-04-20 15:39                                                                                                                                 ` Alan Stern
     [not found]                                                                                                                                 ` <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.1004201045180.1837-100000-IYeN2dnnYyZXsRXLowluHWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
2010-04-20 17:37                                                                                                                                   ` Sarah Sharp
2010-04-20 17:37                                                                                                                                     ` Sarah Sharp
2010-04-20 19:48                                                                                                                                     ` Alan Stern
2010-04-20 19:48                                                                                                                                       ` Alan Stern
2010-04-21 14:04                                                                                                                                       ` Mark Lord
     [not found]                                                                                                                                         ` <4BCF0605.7080508-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2010-04-21 18:17                                                                                                                                           ` Mark Lord
2010-04-21 18:27                                                                                                                                             ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-21 18:27                                                                                                                                               ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-21 19:07                                                                                                                                               ` Alan Stern
2010-04-21 19:07                                                                                                                                                 ` Alan Stern
     [not found]                                                                                                                                                 ` <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.1004211506040.1422-100000-IYeN2dnnYyZXsRXLowluHWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
2010-04-21 19:24                                                                                                                                                   ` Mark Lord
2010-04-21 19:24                                                                                                                                                     ` Mark Lord
2010-04-26 16:27                                                                                                                                               ` Sarah Sharp
2010-04-26 16:27                                                                                                                                                 ` Sarah Sharp
2010-04-29  8:44                                                                                                                                                 ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-29  8:44                                                                                                                                                   ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-29 12:56                                                                                                                                                   ` Mark Lord
2010-04-29 12:56                                                                                                                                                     ` Mark Lord
2010-04-29 15:45                                                                                                                                                   ` Alan Stern
2010-04-29 15:45                                                                                                                                                     ` Alan Stern
2010-05-07 10:42                                                                                                                                                     ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-05-07 10:42                                                                                                                                                       ` Jonas Schwertfeger
     [not found]                                                                                                                                                       ` <4BE3EE87.6020505-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2010-05-07 15:03                                                                                                                                                         ` Alan Stern
2010-05-07 15:03                                                                                                                                                           ` Alan Stern
2010-05-11  6:54                                                                                                                                                           ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-05-11  6:54                                                                                                                                                             ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-05-11 14:44                                                                                                                                                             ` Alan Stern
2010-05-11 14:44                                                                                                                                                               ` Alan Stern
2010-05-12 12:56                                                                                                                                                               ` Mark Lord
2010-05-12 12:56                                                                                                                                                                 ` Mark Lord
2010-05-12 14:23                                                                                                                                                                 ` Douglas Gilbert
2010-05-12 14:23                                                                                                                                                                   ` Douglas Gilbert
2010-05-12 14:37                                                                                                                                                                   ` Mark Lord
2010-05-12 14:37                                                                                                                                                                     ` Mark Lord
2010-05-12 14:45                                                                                                                                                                     ` Mark Lord
2010-05-12 14:45                                                                                                                                                                       ` Mark Lord
2010-05-12 15:09                                                                                                                                                                 ` Alan Stern
2010-05-12 15:09                                                                                                                                                                   ` Alan Stern
2010-05-12 15:39                                                                                                                                                                   ` James Bottomley
2010-05-12 15:39                                                                                                                                                                     ` James Bottomley
2010-05-12 18:48                                                                                                                                                                     ` Alan Stern
2010-05-12 18:48                                                                                                                                                                       ` Alan Stern
     [not found]                                                                                                                                                                       ` <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.1005121444450.1353-100000-IYeN2dnnYyZXsRXLowluHWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
2010-05-13  3:12                                                                                                                                                                         ` Mark Lord
2010-05-13  3:12                                                                                                                                                                           ` Mark Lord
2010-05-13 18:42                                                                                                                                                                           ` Alan Stern
2010-05-13 18:42                                                                                                                                                                             ` Alan Stern
2010-04-21 12:31                                                                                                                                     ` Luben Tuikov
2010-04-21 12:31                                                                                                                                       ` Luben Tuikov
2010-04-21 14:31                                                                                                                                       ` Alan Stern
2010-04-21 14:31                                                                                                                                         ` Alan Stern
2010-04-21 12:47                                                                                                                                     ` Luben Tuikov
2010-04-21 12:47                                                                                                                                       ` Luben Tuikov
2010-04-21 13:52                                                                                                                                       ` Mark Lord
2010-04-21 13:52                                                                                                                                         ` Mark Lord
2010-04-21 14:04                                                                                                                                         ` James Bottomley
2010-04-21 14:04                                                                                                                                           ` James Bottomley
2010-04-21 14:08                                                                                                                                           ` Mark Lord
2010-04-21 14:08                                                                                                                                             ` Mark Lord
2010-04-21 14:15                                                                                                                                             ` James Bottomley
2010-04-21 14:15                                                                                                                                               ` James Bottomley
2010-04-21 14:13                                                                                                                                           ` Mark Lord
2010-04-21 14:13                                                                                                                                             ` Mark Lord
2010-04-21 14:22                                                                                                                                             ` James Bottomley
2010-04-21 14:22                                                                                                                                               ` James Bottomley
     [not found]                                                                                                                                               ` <1271859728.2893.72.camel-0iu6Cu4xQGLYCGPCin2YbQ@public.gmane.org>
2010-04-21 14:53                                                                                                                                                 ` Alan Stern
2010-04-21 14:53                                                                                                                                                   ` Alan Stern
     [not found]                                                                                                                                                   ` <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.1004211032460.1728-100000-IYeN2dnnYyZXsRXLowluHWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
2010-04-21 23:29                                                                                                                                                     ` Stefan Richter
2010-04-21 23:29                                                                                                                                                       ` Stefan Richter
2010-04-20 17:48                                                                                                                                 ` Douglas Gilbert
2010-04-20 17:48                                                                                                                                   ` Douglas Gilbert
2010-04-16 21:31                                                                                                                           ` James Bottomley
2010-04-16 21:31                                                                                                                             ` James Bottomley
2010-04-16 23:56                                                                                                                             ` Douglas Gilbert
2010-04-16 23:56                                                                                                                               ` Douglas Gilbert
2010-04-19 15:04                                                                                                                           ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-19 15:04                                                                                                                             ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-19 16:02                                                                                                                             ` Alan Stern
2010-04-19 16:02                                                                                                                               ` Alan Stern
2010-04-19 20:45                                                                                                                             ` Sarah Sharp
2010-04-19 20:45                                                                                                                               ` Sarah Sharp
2010-04-02 17:36                                               ` Sarah Sharp
2010-04-02 17:36                                                 ` Sarah Sharp
2010-03-31 16:37                         ` David Zeuthen
2010-03-31 16:37                           ` David Zeuthen
     [not found]                           ` <1270053444.16657.17.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org>
2010-03-31 16:58                             ` Lennart Poettering
2010-03-31 16:58                               ` Lennart Poettering
2010-03-31 17:03                               ` Lennart Poettering
2010-03-31 17:03                                 ` Lennart Poettering
     [not found]                               ` <20100331165807.GA20547-kS5D54t9nk0aINubkmmoJbNAH6kLmebB@public.gmane.org>
2010-03-31 17:17                                 ` David Zeuthen
2010-03-31 17:17                                   ` David Zeuthen
2010-03-31 17:06                             ` David Zeuthen
2010-03-31 17:06                               ` David Zeuthen
     [not found]                   ` <1270049200.2302.320.camel@laptop>
2010-03-31 15:37                     ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-03-31 15:37                       ` Jonas Schwertfeger
2010-04-21 14:58                   ` Luben Tuikov
2010-04-21 14:58                     ` Luben Tuikov
2010-04-21 15:09                   ` Luben Tuikov
2010-04-21 15:09                     ` Luben Tuikov
2010-04-21 16:09                     ` Alan Stern
2010-04-21 16:09                       ` Alan Stern
2010-04-21 16:18                       ` Martin K. Petersen [this message]
2010-04-21 16:18                         ` Martin K. Petersen
2010-04-21 17:41                         ` Sarah Sharp
2010-04-21 17:41                           ` Sarah Sharp
2010-04-21 18:08                           ` Alan Stern
2010-04-21 18:08                             ` Alan Stern
2010-04-22  0:08                   ` Luben Tuikov
2010-04-22  0:08                     ` Luben Tuikov
2010-04-22 14:52                     ` Alan Stern
2010-04-22 14:52                       ` Alan Stern
2010-03-29 21:28         ` Sarah Sharp
2010-03-30  7:24           ` Jonas Schwertfeger

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