* [Buildroot] r21760 and device_table.txt problems @ 2008-04-18 23:47 Christopher Taylor 2008-04-19 14:58 ` Hamish Moffatt 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Christopher Taylor @ 2008-04-18 23:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: buildroot First, thank you all for your efforts. I'm using r21760 and it appears that the device nodes aren't getting populated. I realize that the root filesystem is now created in buildroot/project_build_ARCH/PROJECT/root but I don't see the device nodes specified by the device_table.txt I'm assume I'm missing a step that tells buildroot to read the device table while it creates the root file system referenced above, but I didn't find it via make menuconfig. Any help would be appreciated! Respectfully, Chris ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* [Buildroot] r21760 and device_table.txt problems 2008-04-18 23:47 [Buildroot] r21760 and device_table.txt problems Christopher Taylor @ 2008-04-19 14:58 ` Hamish Moffatt 2008-04-20 2:10 ` [Buildroot] Buildroot for AT91RM9200EK? Pink Boy 2008-04-20 5:17 ` [Buildroot] r21760 and device_table.txt problems Christopher Taylor 0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Hamish Moffatt @ 2008-04-19 14:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: buildroot On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 07:47:34PM -0400, Christopher Taylor wrote: > First, thank you all for your efforts. > > I'm using r21760 and it appears that the device nodes aren't getting > populated. I realize that the root filesystem is now created in > buildroot/project_build_ARCH/PROJECT/root but I don't see the device > nodes specified by the device_table.txt > > I'm assume I'm missing a step that tells buildroot to read the device > table while it creates the root file system referenced above, but I > didn't find it via make menuconfig. Once the build finishes the device nodes will look like regular files. This is because they are created within a fakeroot session. They can't be real device nodes because that would require root priviledges at build-time. Hamish -- Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <hamish@debian.org> <hamish@cloud.net.au> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* [Buildroot] Buildroot for AT91RM9200EK? 2008-04-19 14:58 ` Hamish Moffatt @ 2008-04-20 2:10 ` Pink Boy 2008-04-20 2:42 ` Pink Boy 2008-04-20 5:17 ` [Buildroot] r21760 and device_table.txt problems Christopher Taylor 1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Pink Boy @ 2008-04-20 2:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: buildroot Hi, Hopefully this isn't I've been trying to figure out how to build a tool chain and linux kernel for the Atmel AT91RM9200EK dev kit using build root. I tried setting the options under menuconfig for the board and after installing a few missing utilities (Ubuntu natch) I get the following error below. make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/project_build_arm/uclibc/linux-2.6.22.1' cp -pf /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/project_build_arm/uclibc/linux-2.6.22.1/arch/arm/boot/uImage /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/binaries/uclibc/at91rm9200ek-linux-2.6.22.1-20080420.gz cp: cannot stat `/home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/project_build_arm/uclibc/linux-2.6.22.1/arch/arm/boot/uImage': No such file or directory make: *** [/home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/binaries/uclibc/at91rm9200ek-linux-2.6.22.1-20080420.gz] Error 1 tu at Matt-LinuxDev:~/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot$ It looks like something is eithe rmissing or didn't get built. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong at this point. I'm wondering is there is either an option I'm not setting, the current source is broken and I need to use an older one, or there is some patch I need. PS: Total Noob. Mr Foo ---- MODPOST vmlinux WARNING: arch/arm/mach-at91/built-in.o(.data+0x75c): Section mismatch: reference to .init.text:at91rm9200_timer_init (between 'at91rm9200_timer' and 'at91rm9200_timer_irq') OBJCOPY arch/arm/boot/Image Kernel: arch/arm/boot/Image is ready AS arch/arm/boot/compressed/head.o GZIP arch/arm/boot/compressed/piggy.gz AS arch/arm/boot/compressed/piggy.o CC arch/arm/boot/compressed/misc.o In file included from arch/arm/boot/compressed/misc.c:30: include/asm/arch/uncompress.h:35: warning: conflicting types for built-in function 'putc' AS arch/arm/boot/compressed/head-at91rm9200.o LD arch/arm/boot/compressed/vmlinux OBJCOPY arch/arm/boot/zImage Kernel: arch/arm/boot/zImage is ready UIMAGE arch/arm/boot/uImage /usr/bin/mkimage [OPTIONS] Options: -f <MD5 name> Specify an input MD5 file. MD5s must be in jigdo's pseudo-base64 format -j <jigdo name> Specify the input jigdo file -t <template name> Specify the input template file -m <item=path> Map <item> to <path> to find the files in the mirror -M <missing name> Rather than try to build the image, just check that all the needed files are available. If any are missing, list them in this file. -v Make the output logging more verbose -l <logfile> Specify a logfile to append to. If not specified, will log to stderr -o <outfile> Specify a file to write the ISO image to. If not specified, will write to stdout -q Quick mode. Don't check MD5sums. Dangerous! -s <bytenum> Start byte number; will start at 0 if not specified -e <bytenum> End byte number; will end at EOF if not specified -z Don't attempt to rebuild the image; simply print its size in bytes Image arch/arm/boot/uImage is ready make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/project_build_arm/uclibc/linux-2.6.22.1' cp -pf /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/project_build_arm/uclibc/linux-2.6.22.1/arch/arm/boot/uImage /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/binaries/uclibc/at91rm9200ek-linux-2.6.22.1-20080420.gz cp: cannot stat `/home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/project_build_arm/uclibc/linux-2.6.22.1/arch/arm/boot/uImage': No such file or directory make: *** [/home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/binaries/uclibc/at91rm9200ek-linux-2.6.22.1-20080420.gz] Error 1 tu at Matt-LinuxDev:~/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot$ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* [Buildroot] Buildroot for AT91RM9200EK? 2008-04-20 2:10 ` [Buildroot] Buildroot for AT91RM9200EK? Pink Boy @ 2008-04-20 2:42 ` Pink Boy 2008-04-20 3:12 ` Arun Reddy 2008-04-24 0:07 ` Pink Boy 0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Pink Boy @ 2008-04-20 2:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: buildroot Hi, One more thing, the command that seems to bomb, cp -pf /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/project_build_arm/uclibc/linux-2.6.22.1/arch/arm/boot/uImage /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/binaries/uclibc/at91rm9200ek-linux-2.6.22.1-20080420.gz The is no uImage in the source folder, there is however a zImage. ??? Mr Foo ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* [Buildroot] Buildroot for AT91RM9200EK? 2008-04-20 2:42 ` Pink Boy @ 2008-04-20 3:12 ` Arun Reddy 2008-04-24 0:07 ` Pink Boy 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Arun Reddy @ 2008-04-20 3:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: buildroot Hi Pink Boy, While I am uncertain why uImage is not appearing in the source folder, *"I'm wondering is there is either an option I'm not setting, the current source is broken and I need to use an older one, or there is some patch I need."* to solve the problem of retrieving the older source, cannot you simply modify the .mk file and manually change the source file that is currently listed to an older, available one? Arun On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 7:42 PM, Pink Boy <dasfoo@yahoo.com> wrote: > Hi, > > One more thing, the command that seems to bomb, > > > cp -pf > /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/project_build_arm/uclibc/linux-2.6.22.1/arch/arm/boot/uImage > > /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/binaries/uclibc/at91rm9200ek-linux-2.6.22.1-20080420.gz > > The is no uImage in the source folder, there is however a zImage. > > ??? > > Mr Foo > > _______________________________________________ > buildroot mailing list > buildroot at uclibc.org > http://busybox.net/mailman/listinfo/buildroot > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://busybox.net/lists/buildroot/attachments/20080419/ed74fbcc/attachment.htm ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* [Buildroot] Buildroot for AT91RM9200EK? 2008-04-20 2:42 ` Pink Boy 2008-04-20 3:12 ` Arun Reddy @ 2008-04-24 0:07 ` Pink Boy 2008-04-24 14:57 ` Christopher Taylor 2008-04-24 15:27 ` Ulf Samuelsson 1 sibling, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Pink Boy @ 2008-04-24 0:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: buildroot Found one issue, The version of mkimage that I had installed was from the jiget package not the one that comes with UBoot. I uninstalled jiget and mkImage and then tried getting menu config to build UBoot and hopefully the mkImage utility, but I get the following, -bris-- u-boot-1.2.0-atmel/lib_nios2/cache.S u-boot-1.2.0-atmel/lib_nios2/board.c u-boot-1.2.0-atmel/.patched.u-boot-1.2.0-atmel-patch.tar.bz2 u-boot-1.2.0-atmel/CREDITS u-boot-1.2.0-atmel/blackfin_config.mk touch /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/build_arm/u-boot-1.2.0-atmel/.unpacked wget --passive-ftp -nd -P /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/dl ftp://www.at91.com/pub/buildroot//u-boot-1.2.0-atmel-patch.tar.bz2 --16:00:37-- ftp://www.at91.com/pub/buildroot//u-boot-1.2.0-atmel-patch.tar.bz2 => `/home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/dl/u-boot-1.2.0-atmel-patch.tar.bz2' Resolving www.at91.com... 194.2.24.29 Connecting to www.at91.com|194.2.24.29|:21... connected. Logging in as anonymous ... Logged in! ==> SYST ... done. ==> PWD ... done. ==> TYPE I ... done. ==> CWD /pub/buildroot/ ... done. ==> PASV ... done. ==> RETR u-boot-1.2.0-atmel-patch.tar.bz2 ... done. Length: 242 (unauthoritative) 100%[=====================================================================================>] 242 --.--K/s 16:00:39 (9.53 MB/s) - `/home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/dl/u-boot-1.2.0-atmel-patch.tar.bz2' saved [242] mkdir -p /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/project_build_arm/uclibc/u-boot-patches bzcat /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/dl/u-boot-1.2.0-atmel-patch.tar.bz2 | tar -C /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/project_build_arm/uclibc/u-boot-patches -xvf - u-boot-1.2.0-atmel-patch/README.txt u-boot-1.2.0-atmel-patch/README.txt~ touch /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/project_build_arm/uclibc/u-boot-patches/.unpacked toolchain/patch-kernel.sh /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/build_arm/u-boot-1.2.0-atmel /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/project_build_arm/uclibc/u-boot-patches \*.patch touch /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/build_arm/u-boot-1.2.0-atmel/.patched.u-boot-1.2.0-atmel-patch.tar.bz2 cp target/device/Atmel/at91rm9200ek/u-boot/at91rm9200ek.h /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/build_arm/u-boot-1.2.0-atmel/include/configs/. cp: cannot stat `target/device/Atmel/at91rm9200ek/u-boot/at91rm9200ek.h': No such file or directory make: *** [/home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/project_build_arm/uclibc/u-boot-1.2.0-atmel/.configured] Error 1 tu at Matt-LinuxDev:~/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot$ Looking there seems there is no at91rm9200ek.h file I did try and build the tool chain and UBoot for the Atmel AT91rm9260 dev board and it built without an error. I think this means that build root support for the Atmel AT91rm9200ek dev board is currently broken I'm also thinking that Linux support for the Atmel AT91rm9200 microprocessor is spotty at best and maybe I should switch parts? (I feel after banging on this that without an experience with a working tool chain built with buildroot, there is realy no way I can fix this) Mr Foo ----- --- On Sat, 4/19/08, Pink Boy <dasfoo@yahoo.com> wrote: > From: Pink Boy <dasfoo@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Buildroot] Buildroot for AT91RM9200EK? > To: buildroot at uclibc.org > Date: Saturday, April 19, 2008, 7:42 PM > Hi, > > One more thing, the command that seems to bomb, > > > cp -pf > /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/project_build_arm/uclibc/linux-2.6.22.1/arch/arm/boot/uImage > /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/binaries/uclibc/at91rm9200ek-linux-2.6.22.1-20080420.gz > > The is no uImage in the source folder, there is however a > zImage. > > ??? > > Mr Foo > > _______________________________________________ > buildroot mailing list > buildroot at uclibc.org > http://busybox.net/mailman/listinfo/buildroot ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* [Buildroot] Buildroot for AT91RM9200EK? 2008-04-24 0:07 ` Pink Boy @ 2008-04-24 14:57 ` Christopher Taylor 2008-04-24 15:27 ` Ulf Samuelsson 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Christopher Taylor @ 2008-04-24 14:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: buildroot You're using the wrong mkimage. Beleive it or not, there are actually two different binaries with the same name.... a pain in the rear, I know. The one from jiget is _NOT_ the one you need. I only know this because I had the same problem ;) HTH! -Chris On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 8:07 PM, Pink Boy <dasfoo@yahoo.com> wrote: > Found one issue, > > The version of mkimage that I had installed was from the jiget > package not the one that comes with UBoot. I uninstalled > jiget and mkImage and then tried getting menu config to build > UBoot and hopefully the mkImage utility, but I get the following, > > -bris-- > u-boot-1.2.0-atmel/lib_nios2/cache.S > u-boot-1.2.0-atmel/lib_nios2/board.c > u-boot-1.2.0-atmel/.patched.u-boot-1.2.0-atmel-patch.tar.bz2 > u-boot-1.2.0-atmel/CREDITS > u-boot-1.2.0-atmel/blackfin_config.mk > touch /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/build_arm/u-boot-1.2.0-atmel/.unpacked > wget --passive-ftp -nd -P /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/dl ftp://www.at91.com/pub/buildroot//u-boot-1.2.0-atmel-patch.tar.bz2 > --16:00:37-- ftp://www.at91.com/pub/buildroot//u-boot-1.2.0-atmel-patch.tar.bz2 > => `/home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/dl/u-boot-1.2.0-atmel-patch.tar.bz2' > Resolving www.at91.com... 194.2.24.29 > Connecting to www.at91.com|194.2.24.29|:21... connected. > Logging in as anonymous ... Logged in! > ==> SYST ... done. ==> PWD ... done. > ==> TYPE I ... done. ==> CWD /pub/buildroot/ ... done. > ==> PASV ... done. ==> RETR u-boot-1.2.0-atmel-patch.tar.bz2 ... done. > Length: 242 (unauthoritative) > > 100%[=====================================================================================>] 242 --.--K/s > > 16:00:39 (9.53 MB/s) - `/home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/dl/u-boot-1.2.0-atmel-patch.tar.bz2' saved [242] > > mkdir -p /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/project_build_arm/uclibc/u-boot-patches > bzcat /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/dl/u-boot-1.2.0-atmel-patch.tar.bz2 | tar -C /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/project_build_arm/uclibc/u-boot-patches -xvf - > u-boot-1.2.0-atmel-patch/README.txt > u-boot-1.2.0-atmel-patch/README.txt~ > touch /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/project_build_arm/uclibc/u-boot-patches/.unpacked > toolchain/patch-kernel.sh /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/build_arm/u-boot-1.2.0-atmel /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/project_build_arm/uclibc/u-boot-patches \*.patch > touch /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/build_arm/u-boot-1.2.0-atmel/.patched.u-boot-1.2.0-atmel-patch.tar.bz2 > cp target/device/Atmel/at91rm9200ek/u-boot/at91rm9200ek.h /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/build_arm/u-boot-1.2.0-atmel/include/configs/. > cp: cannot stat `target/device/Atmel/at91rm9200ek/u-boot/at91rm9200ek.h': No such file or directory > make: *** [/home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/project_build_arm/uclibc/u-boot-1.2.0-atmel/.configured] Error 1 > > tu at Matt-LinuxDev:~/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot$ > > Looking there seems there is no at91rm9200ek.h file > > > I did try and build the tool chain and UBoot for the Atmel AT91rm9260 > dev board and it built without an error. > > I think this means that build root support for the Atmel AT91rm9200ek > dev board is currently broken > > I'm also thinking that Linux support for the Atmel AT91rm9200 > microprocessor is spotty at best and maybe I should switch > parts? (I feel after banging on this that without an experience > with a working tool chain built with buildroot, there is realy > no way I can fix this) > > Mr Foo > > ----- > > > > > --- On Sat, 4/19/08, Pink Boy <dasfoo@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > From: Pink Boy <dasfoo@yahoo.com> > > Subject: Re: [Buildroot] Buildroot for AT91RM9200EK? > > To: buildroot at uclibc.org > > Date: Saturday, April 19, 2008, 7:42 PM > > > > Hi, > > > > One more thing, the command that seems to bomb, > > > > > > cp -pf > > /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/project_build_arm/uclibc/linux-2.6.22.1/arch/arm/boot/uImage > > /home/tu/workspace/arm920_tool/buildroot/binaries/uclibc/at91rm9200ek-linux-2.6.22.1-20080420.gz > > > > The is no uImage in the source folder, there is however a > > zImage. > > > > ??? > > > > Mr Foo > > > > _______________________________________________ > > buildroot mailing list > > buildroot at uclibc.org > > http://busybox.net/mailman/listinfo/buildroot > _______________________________________________ > buildroot mailing list > buildroot at uclibc.org > http://busybox.net/mailman/listinfo/buildroot > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* [Buildroot] Buildroot for AT91RM9200EK? 2008-04-24 0:07 ` Pink Boy 2008-04-24 14:57 ` Christopher Taylor @ 2008-04-24 15:27 ` Ulf Samuelsson 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Ulf Samuelsson @ 2008-04-24 15:27 UTC (permalink / raw) To: buildroot > Found one issue, [snip] > > I did try and build the tool chain and UBoot for the Atmel AT91rm9260 > dev board and it built without an error. > > I think this means that build root support for the Atmel AT91rm9200ek > dev board is currently broken > There is support in buildroot for AT91RM9200EK with dataflash. You have to do "make at91rm9200dfc_defconfig" Best Regards Ulf Samuelsson ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* [Buildroot] r21760 and device_table.txt problems 2008-04-19 14:58 ` Hamish Moffatt 2008-04-20 2:10 ` [Buildroot] Buildroot for AT91RM9200EK? Pink Boy @ 2008-04-20 5:17 ` Christopher Taylor 2008-04-21 14:06 ` Hamish Moffatt 1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Christopher Taylor @ 2008-04-20 5:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: buildroot Hamish, Yes, that makes sense. Unfortunately, I'm not even seeing regular files. Your response leads me to conclude that while the device nodes are not currently present in the fs tree (for the reasons you specified), they _will_ be created during boot. In a desktop environment this is usually handled by devfs or udev these days. How is it usually done within buildroot? I don't remember enabling devfs or udev in buildroot or the kernel, but I'll look on Monday. If it's a static listings like before devfs, how should I go about creating the device nodes for my target fs ... just mknod as root before I make an image? Would simply running make as root fix this and create the device nodes per the deivce_table? Respectfully, Chris > Once the build finishes the device nodes will look like regular files. > This is because they are created within a fakeroot session. They can't > be real device nodes because that would require root priviledges at > build-time. > > Hamish > -- > Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <hamish@debian.org> <hamish@cloud.net.au> > _______________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* [Buildroot] r21760 and device_table.txt problems 2008-04-20 5:17 ` [Buildroot] r21760 and device_table.txt problems Christopher Taylor @ 2008-04-21 14:06 ` Hamish Moffatt 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Hamish Moffatt @ 2008-04-21 14:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: buildroot On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 01:17:34AM -0400, Christopher Taylor wrote: > Yes, that makes sense. Unfortunately, I'm not even seeing regular files. > Your response leads me to conclude that while the device nodes are not > currently present in the fs tree (for the reasons you specified), they > _will_ be created during boot. Can you post the output of the final stages of make? You should see it running genext2fs, mkfs.jffs2 or something similar for the output format you are using, within a fakeroot environment which also includes running the makedevs program. In my case, I see a bunch of empty regular files left in the project_build_$arch/$project/root/dev directory after the build, which is what I expected. > In a desktop environment this is usually handled by devfs or udev > these days. How is it usually done within buildroot? I don't remember > enabling devfs or udev in buildroot or the kernel, but I'll look on > Monday. If it's a static listings like before devfs, how should I go > about creating the device nodes for my target fs ... just mknod as > root before I make an image? The device table is supposed to be used to populate the static /dev in the root image. If you want dynamic /dev I think you need to write this into your rc script yourself. Probably mount tmpfs on /dev and run mdev or udev to populate it. > Would simply running make as root fix this and create the device nodes > per the deivce_table? I suspect not. It will depend on what you see from the build. Hamish -- Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <hamish@debian.org> <hamish@cloud.net.au> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2008-04-24 15:27 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 10+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2008-04-18 23:47 [Buildroot] r21760 and device_table.txt problems Christopher Taylor 2008-04-19 14:58 ` Hamish Moffatt 2008-04-20 2:10 ` [Buildroot] Buildroot for AT91RM9200EK? Pink Boy 2008-04-20 2:42 ` Pink Boy 2008-04-20 3:12 ` Arun Reddy 2008-04-24 0:07 ` Pink Boy 2008-04-24 14:57 ` Christopher Taylor 2008-04-24 15:27 ` Ulf Samuelsson 2008-04-20 5:17 ` [Buildroot] r21760 and device_table.txt problems Christopher Taylor 2008-04-21 14:06 ` Hamish Moffatt
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