[Buildroot] External toolchain: crosstool-NG instead of buildroot?

[Buildroot] External toolchain: crosstool-NG instead of buildroot?

[Grant Edwards]

The buildroot docs recommends using crosstool-NG to generate
external toolchains.

Is there some reason one shouldn't or can't use a toolchain
generated buildroot?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Alright, you!!
                                  at               Imitate a WOUNDED SEAL
                               visi.com            pleading for a PARKING
                                                   SPACE!!

[Buildroot] External toolchain: crosstool-NG instead of buildroot?

[Thomas Petazzoni]

Hello,

Le Fri, 18 Dec 2009 13:00:28 +0000 (UTC),
Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> a ?crit :

> The buildroot docs recommends using crosstool-NG to generate
> external toolchains.
> 
> Is there some reason one shouldn't or can't use a toolchain
> generated buildroot?

Theorically, Buildroot should work just as fine as Crosstool-NG for
generating toolchain.

In practive, my own *personal* feeling is that the Crosstool-NG
community is spending more time to improve this toolchain generation
tool than the Buildroot community spends on the toolchain part. I have
the impression that they do a better job at following new upstream
versions, integrating necessary patches, etc. But again, I have no
objective facts to validate these feelings.

Cheers,

Thomas
-- 
Thomas Petazzoni, Free Electrons
Kernel, drivers and embedded Linux development,
consulting, training and support.
http://free-electrons.com

[Buildroot] External toolchain: crosstool-NG instead of buildroot?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2009-12-18, Thomas Petazzoni <thomas.petazzoni@free-electrons.com> wrote:
> Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> a ??crit :
>
>> The buildroot docs recommends using crosstool-NG to generate
>> external toolchains.
>> 
>> Is there some reason one shouldn't or can't use a toolchain
>> generated buildroot?
>
> Theorically, Buildroot should work just as fine as Crosstool-NG for
> generating toolchain.

So far it seems to be working fine.  I haven't figured out what
the minimal set of required files is.  Initially I took a
snapshot of everything under output/staging.  Subsequent makes
using that as an external toolchain failed because it found
files in output/staging/usr/share that it didn't expect to be
there.  I removed usr/share from my "toolchain", and now builds
seem to work fine.

> In practive, my own *personal* feeling is that the Crosstool-NG
> community is spending more time to improve this toolchain generation
> tool than the Buildroot community spends on the toolchain part. I have
> the impression that they do a better job at following new upstream
> versions, integrating necessary patches, etc. But again, I have no
> objective facts to validate these feelings.

For now I think I'll stick with a buildroot-generated toolchain.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I'm having a
                                  at               tax-deductible experience!
                               visi.com            I need an energy crunch!!

[Buildroot] External toolchain: crosstool-NG instead of buildroot?

[Peter Korsgaard]

>>>>> "Grant" == Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> writes:

 Grant> The buildroot docs recommends using crosstool-NG to generate
 Grant> external toolchains.

 Grant> Is there some reason one shouldn't or can't use a toolchain
 Grant> generated buildroot?

No not at all. The reason for recommending crosstool-NG is simply that
it's a solution known to work, and we had some discussion about working
closer together with the crosstool-NG people, E.G. long term perhaps
getting rid of toolchain building in BR, and simply use crosstool-NG for
it.

-- 
Bye, Peter Korsgaard

[Buildroot] External toolchain: crosstool-NG instead of buildroot?

[Yann E. MORIN]

Hello Peter, and All!

On Sunday 20 December 2009 20:50:09 Peter Korsgaard wrote:
> we had some discussion about working
> closer together with the crosstool-NG people, E.G. long term perhaps
> getting rid of toolchain building in BR, and simply use crosstool-NG for
> it.

As you mentioned the subject, I think we should prepare both projects so
crosstool-NG offers all that buildroot needs, and maybe tweak a few things
in buildroot to efficiently use crostool-NG.

The plans for crosstool-NG are a ~4-month release cycle, as 3 months is
too short for me alone to handle. I think I can adapt the release cycle
to more closely follow buildroot. In fact, I think that, to be efficient,
crosstool-NG should be released one month ahead of buildroot, so that
potential bugs can be fixed and a bug-fix release can be made just before
the buildroot release. That way, buildroot can rely on an as-stable-as-
possible release. Next crosstool-NG release is due for late January, so
that should be a match for the next buildroot (planned February, I guess).

Apart form that, we could build upon the results of the BR developper day.
Should I repost my summary to this list?

Regards,
Yann E. MORIN.

-- 
.-----------------.--------------------.------------------.--------------------.
|  Yann E. MORIN  | Real-Time Embedded | /"\ ASCII RIBBON | Erics' conspiracy: |
| +33 662 376 056 | Software  Designer | \ / CAMPAIGN     |  ___               |
| +33 223 225 172 `------------.-------:  X  AGAINST      |  \e/  There is no  |
| http://ymorin.is-a-geek.org/ | _/*\_ | / \ HTML MAIL    |   v   conspiracy.  |
`------------------------------^-------^------------------^--------------------'

[Buildroot] External toolchain: crosstool-NG instead of buildroot?

[Peter Korsgaard]

>>>>> "Yann" == Yann E MORIN <yann.morin.1998@anciens.enib.fr> writes:

Hi,

 Yann> Hello Peter, and All!
 Yann> On Sunday 20 December 2009 20:50:09 Peter Korsgaard wrote:
 >> we had some discussion about working
 >> closer together with the crosstool-NG people, E.G. long term perhaps
 >> getting rid of toolchain building in BR, and simply use crosstool-NG for
 >> it.

 Yann> As you mentioned the subject, I think we should prepare both
 Yann> projects so crosstool-NG offers all that buildroot needs, and
 Yann> maybe tweak a few things in buildroot to efficiently use
 Yann> crostool-NG.

Yes definately - Yann, I'm really sorry that I haven't gotten back to
you on your mail from ELCE - Things have been kind of crazy here, but
now holidays are coming up.

 Yann> The plans for crosstool-NG are a ~4-month release cycle, as 3
 Yann> months is too short for me alone to handle. I think I can adapt
 Yann> the release cycle to more closely follow buildroot. In fact, I
 Yann> think that, to be efficient, crosstool-NG should be released one
 Yann> month ahead of buildroot, so that potential bugs can be fixed and
 Yann> a bug-fix release can be made just before the buildroot
 Yann> release. That way, buildroot can rely on an as-stable-as-
 Yann> possible release. Next crosstool-NG release is due for late
 Yann> January, so that should be a match for the next buildroot
 Yann> (planned February, I guess).

Yes, that sounds good. Why is a 3 month release schedule significantly
more work than a 4 month one? It should just mean less new development
done per release.

 Yann> Apart form that, we could build upon the results of the BR
 Yann> developper day.  Should I repost my summary to this list?

Yes please do.

Talking about developers day, Thomas and me are trying to arrange
another dev day after FOSDEM (February 8) - Anyone interested?

-- 
Bye, Peter Korsgaard

[Buildroot] External toolchain: crosstool-NG instead of buildroot?

[Yann E. MORIN]

Peter,
All,

On Monday 21 December 2009 21:06:08 Peter Korsgaard wrote:
>  Yann> As you mentioned the subject, I think we should prepare both
>  Yann> projects so crosstool-NG offers all that buildroot needs, and
>  Yann> maybe tweak a few things in buildroot to efficiently use
>  Yann> crostool-NG.
> Yes definately - Yann, I'm really sorry that I haven't gotten back to
> you on your mail from ELCE - Things have been kind of crazy here, but
> now holidays are coming up.

No problem. I've had stuff to do here as well. Holidays are coming here
too, but one week will be short enough...

[--SNIP--]
> Yes, that sounds good. Why is a 3 month release schedule significantly
> more work than a 4 month one? It should just mean less new development
> done per release.

3 months is too short a time to bundle enough new features to warrant a
new release, while 4 months is just enough to give me a little break
while still allowing substantial advancement in the project.

But I do agree that once we join forces on the toolchain part, a 3-month
cycle will be OK.

>  Yann> Apart form that, we could build upon the results of the BR
>  Yann> developper day.  Should I repost my summary to this list?
> Yes please do.

Will do in a separate post.

> Talking about developers day, Thomas and me are trying to arrange
> another dev day after FOSDEM (February 8) - Anyone interested?

I'll be attending FOSDEM, but am not too sure I'll be able to stay monday.
In fact, I already have a train home booked on monday. If I can cancel it,
and arrange for a second day off tuesday, then I'l gladly join, if it makes
sense.

Regards,
Yann E. MORIN.

-- 
.-----------------.--------------------.------------------.--------------------.
|  Yann E. MORIN  | Real-Time Embedded | /"\ ASCII RIBBON | Erics' conspiracy: |
| +33 662 376 056 | Software  Designer | \ / CAMPAIGN     |  ___               |
| +33 223 225 172 `------------.-------:  X  AGAINST      |  \e/  There is no  |
| http://ymorin.is-a-geek.org/ | _/*\_ | / \ HTML MAIL    |   v   conspiracy.  |
`------------------------------^-------^------------------^--------------------'

[Buildroot] External toolchain: crosstool-NG instead of buildroot?

[Peter Korsgaard]

>>>>> "Yann" == Yann E MORIN <yann.morin.1998@anciens.enib.fr> writes:

Hi,

 Yann> No problem. I've had stuff to do here as well. Holidays are
 Yann> coming here too, but one week will be short enough...

Yes, I know .. :/

 Yann> 3 months is too short a time to bundle enough new features to warrant a
 Yann> new release, while 4 months is just enough to give me a little break
 Yann> while still allowing substantial advancement in the project.

 Yann> But I do agree that once we join forces on the toolchain part, a 3-month
 Yann> cycle will be OK.

Ok.

 >> Talking about developers day, Thomas and me are trying to arrange
 >> another dev day after FOSDEM (February 8) - Anyone interested?

 Yann> I'll be attending FOSDEM, but am not too sure I'll be able to
 Yann> stay monday.  In fact, I already have a train home booked on
 Yann> monday. If I can cancel it, and arrange for a second day off
 Yann> tuesday, then I'l gladly join, if it makes sense.

It would be very good if you could make it - Otherwise we can discuss
during FOSDEM instead.

-- 
Bye, Peter Korsgaard