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From: Kishen Maloor <kishen.maloor@intel.com>
To: Tony Lindgren <tony.lindgren@linux.intel.com>
Cc: "Artem Bityutskiy" <dedekind1@gmail.com>,
	"Jörg Rödel" <joro@8bytes.org>,
	"Paolo Bonzini" <pbonzini@redhat.com>,
	"Sean Christopherson" <seanjc@google.com>,
	"Peter Xu" <peterx@redhat.com>, "Fabiano Rosas" <farosas@suse.de>,
	"Jon Grimm" <Jon.Grimm@amd.com>,
	"Pankaj Gupta" <pankaj.gupta@amd.com>,
	"Tom Lendacky" <thomas.lendacky@amd.com>,
	"Marc Zyngier" <maz@kernel.org>,
	"Oliver Upton" <oliver.upton@linux.dev>,
	"Steven Price" <steven.price@arm.com>,
	"Anup Patel" <anup@brainfault.org>,
	"Samuel Ortiz" <sameo@rivosinc.com>,
	"Jakub Růžička" <jakub.ruzicka@matfyz.cz>,
	"Vishal Annapurve" <vannapurve@google.com>,
	"Elena Reshetova" <elena.reshetova@intel.com>,
	"Kai Huang" <kai.huang@intel.com>,
	"Mika Westerberg" <mika.westerberg@linux.intel.com>,
	"Peter Fang" <peter.fang@intel.com>,
	"Rick Edgecombe" <rick.p.edgecombe@intel.com>,
	"Xiaoyao Li" <xiaoyao.li@intel.com>,
	"Xu Yilun" <yilun.xu@linux.intel.com>,
	kvm@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v2 2/4] KVM: x86: Add optional KVM_CAP_LIVE_MIGRATION and KVM_MIGRATE_CMD
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2026 17:13:10 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <e2f8b93a-fd42-4ee6-8b74-759d3052258a@intel.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <aqzS_mCOT6YuHKxN@tlindgre-MOBL1>

On 9/17/26 10:58 PM, Tony Lindgren wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2026 at 09:32:23PM -0700, Kishen Maloor wrote:
>> On 9/16/26 11:42 PM, Tony Lindgren wrote:
>>> On Wed, Sep 16, 2026 at 08:31:32PM -0700, Kishen Maloor wrote:
>>>> On 9/15/26 10:09 PM, Tony Lindgren wrote:
>>>>> So trying to summarize the common flags for the role and separate vendor
>>>>> flags:
>>>>>
>>>>> struct kvm_migrate_cmd {
>>>>> 	__u16 command;
>>>>> 	__u16 flags;
>>>>> 	__u16 vflags;
>>>>> 	__u16 reserved;
>>>>> 	__u32 reserved;
>>>>> 	struct kvm_transfer_buffer buf;
>>>>> };
>>>>>
>>>>> Is the above along the lines what you were thinking?
>>>>
>>>> No, I was suggesting a 'role' field carved out of the 'reserved' space,
>>>> like this:
>>>>
>>>> struct kvm_migrate_cmd {
>>>>       __u16 command;
>>>>       __u16 flags;
>>>>       __u8  role;     /* 0 = unset, 1 = source, 2 = destination */
>>>>       __u8  reserved[3];
>>>>       struct kvm_transfer_buffer buf;
>>>> };
>>>
>>> OK yes thanks for clarifying, that works for me.
>>>  
>>>>> Ah OK, yes that would also tell "the hardware has been initialized to a
>>>>> certain migration role". That seems like a usable common feature.
>>>>
>>>> Not quite. It tells us that userspace asserted a role for this VM's migration
>>>> session. Whether a TD was created for import is a separate, vendor-level detail.
>>>> The generic layer only needs the role to reject a session that never stated one,
>>>> and to pick the export or import callback. That callback then knows which side
>>>> it's on and can reject an incorrect role (e.g., if SETUP asserted dst for a src TD).
>>>
>>> That's a good point, the hardware role may not be set yet.
>>>
>>> I'm still wondering if there is a need to stash the userspace set role in
>>> KVM though. Likely only the hardware specific code can properly track the
>>> state of the hardware and adjust to the userspace requests. Seems just
>>> being able to pass the role in struct kvm_migrate_cmd should be enough?
>>
>> Passing it in kvm_migrate_cmd is enough for SETUP itself, but the commands
>> after SETUP like memory/vcpu transfers still have to reach the right
>> callback. So KVM would need to remember what was asserted so that the
>> generic layer can dispatch to the export or import facing callbacks.
>> We've been sketching (on this thread) an alternative UAPI set
>> (3 vs 5 ioctls) for consideration which this stored role enables:
>>
>> Proposed in the RFC              Alternative
>> KVM_MIGRATE_CMD                  KVM_MIGRATE_CMD
>> KVM_EXPORT_MEMORY                 
>> KVM_IMPORT_MEMORY                KVM_TRANSFER_MEMORY       
>> KVM_EXPORT_VCPU
>> KVM_IMPORT_VCPU                  KVM_TRANSFER_VCPU
>>
>> It's just a record (1 byte) of what userspace asserted for the current session 
>> at SETUP. Vendor code still owns the hardware state and remains free to reject a 
>> role that doesn't match it. It is also what lets the generic layer reject a 
>> command to a VM that never set up a session.
> 
> For the TRANSFER style operations, I would assume the direction is passed
> for each transfer, just like the Linux does for the dmaengine. It's
> possible that there may be transfers going both directions without the
> role changing.
> 
> So looks like we have tree things to consider: userspace set migration
> role, the hardware state, and transfer direction.

Two of those three I agree with: userspace passes the role at SETUP, and
the vendor implementation tracks the hardware state. It's the per-transfer
direction I don't think we need.

> What if userspace always passes the role and transfer direction where it
> makes sense? And then the hardware specific implementation tracks the
> hardware state?

Unless there's another meaning, direction would indicate that an operation
must produce or consume a blob into/from a buffer. Such an indication would be
necessary if the layer below the API cannot know what to do with a buffer,
which may well be the case in your dmaengine analogy. However, in this case a
vendor implementation sits below the generic layer and could derive what it
needs to do from the role, command, and any session state it maintains. The
TDH.EXPORT.ABORT example I cited upthread expects a token only once the
session has left its pre-copy phase, so what to do with the buffer follows
from state the vendor layer already holds.

The gap I do see is in how the buffer itself is described: we have no way to
express a command that takes an input and produces an output. A direction flag
doesn't help there either, since it can only say one thing. My comments on patch 2
suggest a new 'capacity' field alongside a reframing of 'size' in kvm_transfer_buffer,
where capacity bounds what the kernel may write and size reports what is actually
there. That covers the both-ways case, and it also leaves nothing for a direction
field to convey. Maybe that addresses your concern?

  reply	other threads:[~2026-09-21  0:13 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 85+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2026-08-31  7:13 [RFC PATCH v2 0/4] Add KVM API for confidential guest live migration Tony Lindgren
2026-08-31  7:13 ` [RFC PATCH v2 1/4] Documentation: KVM: Add live migration API for confidential guests Tony Lindgren
2026-08-31  7:20   ` sashiko-bot
2026-09-18 11:35   ` Peter Xu
2026-09-21  4:20     ` Tony Lindgren
2026-09-24  1:50     ` Wei Wang
2026-09-24  4:51       ` Tony Lindgren
2026-08-31  7:13 ` [RFC PATCH v2 2/4] KVM: x86: Add optional KVM_CAP_LIVE_MIGRATION and KVM_MIGRATE_CMD Tony Lindgren
2026-08-31  7:23   ` sashiko-bot
2026-09-01  6:03     ` Tony Lindgren
2026-09-07 11:53   ` Tony Lindgren
2026-09-07 13:15     ` Jörg Rödel
2026-09-07 13:32       ` Artem Bityutskiy
2026-09-08  4:15         ` Tony Lindgren
2026-09-08  4:43         ` Tony Lindgren
2026-09-09  0:22           ` Kishen Maloor
2026-09-09  6:57             ` Tony Lindgren
2026-09-10  1:11               ` Kishen Maloor
2026-09-10  6:33                 ` Tony Lindgren
2026-09-11  1:40                   ` Kishen Maloor
2026-09-11  4:23                     ` Tony Lindgren
2026-09-15  0:14                       ` Kishen Maloor
2026-09-15  4:44                         ` Tony Lindgren
2026-09-15 15:53                           ` Kishen Maloor
2026-09-16  5:09                             ` Tony Lindgren
2026-09-17  3:31                               ` Kishen Maloor
2026-09-17  6:42                                 ` Tony Lindgren
2026-09-18  4:32                                   ` Kishen Maloor
2026-09-18  5:58                                     ` Tony Lindgren
2026-09-21  0:13                                       ` Kishen Maloor [this message]
2026-09-21  6:52                                         ` Tony Lindgren
2026-09-21  9:24                                           ` Tony Lindgren
2026-09-21 10:58                                             ` Tony Lindgren
2026-09-22  3:57                                           ` Kishen Maloor
2026-09-22  5:25                                             ` Tony Lindgren
2026-09-23  0:38                                               ` Kishen Maloor
2026-09-23  6:04                                                 ` Tony Lindgren
2026-09-24  5:53                                                   ` Kishen Maloor
2026-09-24  6:59                                                     ` Tony Lindgren
2026-09-18  4:33   ` Kishen Maloor
2026-09-21  5:58     ` Tony Lindgren
2026-09-21  6:56       ` Tony Lindgren
2026-09-22  3:56         ` Kishen Maloor
2026-09-22  6:27           ` Tony Lindgren
2026-09-23  0:37             ` Kishen Maloor
2026-09-23  6:50               ` Tony Lindgren
2026-09-24  5:34                 ` Kishen Maloor
2026-09-24  7:15                   ` Tony Lindgren
2026-10-08  9:22                     ` Tony Lindgren
2026-08-31  7:13 ` [RFC PATCH v2 3/4] KVM: x86: Add optional KVM_EXPORT_MEMORY and KVM_IMPORT_MEMORY Tony Lindgren
2026-08-31  7:23   ` sashiko-bot
2026-09-01  6:10     ` Tony Lindgren
2026-08-31  7:13 ` [RFC PATCH v2 4/4] KVM: x86: Add optional KVM_EXPORT_VCPU and KVM_IMPORT_VCPU Tony Lindgren
2026-08-31  7:23   ` sashiko-bot
2026-09-01  6:12     ` Tony Lindgren
2026-09-04 18:24 ` [RFC PATCH v2 0/4] Add KVM API for confidential guest live migration Artem Bityutskiy
2026-09-17 21:27   ` Peter Xu
2026-09-18 12:46     ` Artem Bityutskiy
2026-09-18 15:53       ` Peter Xu
2026-09-22  8:09         ` Artem Bityutskiy
2026-09-22  9:42           ` Tony Lindgren
2026-09-22 11:54             ` Artem Bityutskiy
2026-09-23  4:20               ` Tony Lindgren
2026-09-22 21:18           ` Peter Xu
2026-09-23 12:05             ` Artem Bityutskiy
2026-09-24 21:19               ` Peter Xu
2026-09-28 14:15                 ` Artem Bityutskiy
2026-09-29 21:05                   ` Peter Xu
2026-10-02 19:57                     ` Artem Bityutskiy
2026-10-07 20:00                       ` Peter Xu
2026-09-23 15:28           ` Serge Hallyn (AMD)
2026-09-20 23:56     ` Kishen Maloor
2026-09-23 21:36       ` Peter Xu
2026-09-24  4:27         ` Kishen Maloor
2026-09-25 14:18           ` Peter Xu
2026-09-29  1:28             ` Kishen Maloor
2026-09-30 20:42               ` Peter Xu
2026-10-07  4:27                 ` Kishen Maloor
2026-10-07 20:13                   ` Peter Xu
2026-10-08  6:23                     ` Tony Lindgren
2026-10-08 14:31                       ` Peter Xu
2026-09-18 18:36 ` Ionut Mihalcea
2026-09-21  4:35   ` Tony Lindgren
2026-09-25 16:03 ` Serge Hallyn (AMD)
2026-09-28  3:24   ` Kishen Maloor

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