RE: Elks Distribution

[neil.holmes@zoom.co.uk]

Hi Riley,

Thanks for your analysis. I am on the road for a couple of 
days now but will look at it more closely when I return.

I think I may be already addressing some of the points that 
you raise.

Your support is much appreciated.

Many Thanks

Neil


Quoting Riley Williams <rhw@InfraDead.Org>:

> Hi Neil.
> 
> > I am very greatful to you for your support of what I am 
doing.
> > Basic, though it is at the moment, I do expect it to go 
much, much
> > further.
> >
> > The goal of the Distribution Edition is to create a 
version of ELKS
> > that is accessible to the less technically able of us out 
there.
> > Simply stated - to be able to boot from a floppy disk, 
follow a
> > procedure, and finish up with a PC that boots into 
ELKS at the end
> > of that process. (From my web page)
> >
> > I remember that, when I first started out with Elks, I had 
a lot of
> > trouble getting going from anything other than the disk 
images. I
> > had an 80286 PC that had been sat around gathering 
dust and I
> > decided that it should be my ELKS desktop PC.
> >
> > Even then it took me a long time to get anywhere far 
with that.
> > Although I have an IT career, its not as a 'C' 
Programmer. And my
> > low level knowledge is sketchy to say the least. I find 
Tannebaum's
> > tome very interesting but hard going. I guess that sort of 
level is
> > not my scene.
> >
> > But what I do have is a gritty determination. And that is 
how I got
> > going with the 80286. I resolved that I would get it self 
booting
> > and running ELKS. I achieved that after a lot of 
experimentation and
> > Newsgroup scouring.
> >
> > As I said in my email last week. I then got to the point 
where I
> > wanted to try and put something back into the project of 
my own. But
> > what could I do ? I certainly don't have, and probably 
never will
> > have, the low level skills that you guys have. But what 
I did have
> > was my own experience of getting started with ELKS.
> >
> > I realised that many others may be getting turned off to 
ELKS
> > because they don't possess the same kind of 
determination that I do.
> > So that was when I decided to pull together my 
experience into what,
> > I hope, will become a decent Distribution Edition for 
people like
> > me.
> 
> I'm certainly hoping so as well.
> 
> > So the roadmap that I have now goes something like 
this :-
> 
> I've swapped your sections (2) and (3) over as they 
logically belong
> the
> other way round, and I've also reformatted the result to 
make it
> easier
> to read. Here's my comments on the result...
> 
> > 1. Bootable Install Floppy
> >    - Shell Scripting
> >
> >	- Maybe look at some of the mini "curses" code 
that is lying
> >	  around to try and make it look prettier later.
> >
> >	- I would appreciate some feedback on what I can 
do with the
> >	  bcc version of "curses". I noticed it in the 
ELKSCMD source.
> >
> >	- I am thinking that for a Distribution I need to be 
able to,
> >	  pretty well, automate everything. But, of course, 
with manual
> >	  options for those who prefer that way.
> 
> First, we need to ask precicely what the boot/install 
diskette is
> supposed to achieve. Here's my take on that, in the order 
they need to
> be achieved...
> 
>  1. Boot into an ELKS system that does not require the 
floppy
>     drive to run. We can't assume that every system will 
have
>     two floppy drives, as most do not.
> 
>     One thing that would help here is if ELKS implemented
>     something akin to MS-DOS's "virtual floppy" system, in
>     which a system with just one floppy drive can refer to
>     that drive as both A: and B: and the two drives remain
>     completely independent, with the OS just asking the
>     user to put the relevant diskette in the drive.
> 
>  2. Partition the primary hard drive with a partition of type
>     80 that is at most 31M in size, as that is the largest
>     partition that can be handled.
> 
>     This basically consists of a loop running fdisk /dev/bda
>     and then checking for a valid partition on the result.
> 
>  3. Auto-detect the correct partition and format it, then 
mount
>     it at a fixed location in the install file system.
> 
>     We can limit ourself to the four primary partitions at this
>     stage for the simple reason that the ELKS hard drive 
code
>     does not currently support logical partitions.
> 
>  4. Drop into a loop asking the user to put a diskette in the
>     floppy drive, then mount it and copy everything off that
>     floppy to the same place on the target filesystem.
> 
>     A working `tar` command would help here. Given that, 
this
>     would reduce to the following bash script (converted 
to ash
>     script):
> 
> 	function another_disk() {
> 	    local Y
> 
> 	    echo
> 	    echo 'To copy another diskette, insert it in the'
> 	    echo 'diskette drive, then type "Y" and press 
ENTER'
> 	    echo
> 	    echo 'Copy another diskette ? '
> 	    while read Y ; do
> 		case "`echo .$Y | tr A-Z a-z`" in
> 		    .n) 	return 1	;;
> 		    .no)	return 1	;;
> 		    .y) 	return 0	;;
> 		    .yes)	return 0	;;
> 		esac
> 	    done
> 	}
> 
> 	function locate() {
> 	    find "$1" -type $2 | sed "s¬^$1/¬¬"
> 	}
> 
> 	while another_disk ; do
> 	    mount /dev/fd0 /mnt/fd0
> 	    locate /mnt/fd0 d | while read DIR ; do
> 		mkdir /mnt/tgt/"${DIR}"
> 	    done
> 	    locate /mnt/fd0 f | while read FILE ; do
> 		cp -pf /mnt/fd0/"${FILE}" /mnt/tgt/"${FILE}"
> 	    done
> 	    copy /mnt/fd0 /mnt/tgt
> 	    umount /dev/fd0
> 	done
> 
>     That basically does that entire step.
> 
>  5. Once the user has finished copying diskettes, reboot 
the system.
> 
> >    - The key installation issues that I see my needing to 
consider
> >      are :-
> >
> >	- How do I resolve the kernel configuration for each
> >	  platform/disk layout ? Maybe Linux controlled as 
per
> >	  your information.
> 
> Two basic options:
> 
>  1. Assume that the kernel on the install image is the 
correct one
>     for the final system.
> 
>  2. The first diskette the user enters should have the 
kernel image
>     on it as boot/elks relative to the root of the diskette. 
Refuse
>     to accept it if that file isn't there.
> 
> There's little other than those two options to choose from.
> 
> >	- How do I control partitioning during install ?
> >	  Again your suggestions are likely to help here.
> 
> Initially, drop steps (2) and (3) in a loop such that step (3) 
loops
> back to step (2) if no suitable partition is found.
> 
> >	- How do I deal with different types of install 
images ?
> >	  Your suggestions, again, will be key.
> 
> There's basically two scenarios that you need to worry 
about:
> 
>  1. The user has a 360k floppy drive.
> 
>     In this configuration, you're probably looking at a 
boot+root
>     configuration, where the boot diskette only has the 
kernel on
>     it, and the root diskette has everything else.
> 
>  2. The user has a 720k or larger floppy drive.
> 
>     In this configuration, you're looking at a single 720k 
image
>     that can be written to any of the larger drives and will 
work
>     on all of them.
> 
> You will probably need to answer some questions 
differently when
> designing for each of these scenarios. If you can 
squeeze the entire
> install system on a single 360k image, then it's much 
easier, but that
> is unfortunately not likely nowadays.
> 
> >	- How do I Resolve the multi-booting issue ? This 
may be
> >	  a lilo answer ? Not really thought about it yet.
> 
> Initially, you don't - just design for using fdisk to switch 
the
> active
> partition to the one you wish to boot from next time. That 
question
> can
> then be dealt with later when the answer is probably 
much clearer.
> 
> > 2. Package Installation
> >    - Look to install package sets as part of the 
installation
> process
> >    - Here I will need suggestions and contributions. I 
can start
> work
> >      on this now so, if anyone has anything then please 
let me know.
> >      Please be sure that I am ok with licensing before 
submitting
> >      anything. Documentation would be very helpful too ! 
I will try
> >      them out on my desktop before I include them.
> >    - SmallC I expect to be one
> >    - Elvis perhaps
> >
> > 3. SLIP Network Installation
> >    - Automatic installation of a SLIP connection and test 
during
> >      install
> >    - I have not really played with this yet though I do 
have Harry's
> >      notes in my file.
> >
> > So there you have it. Thats what I am up to. The 
feedback that I get
> > is vital and I very greatful for all the encouragement 
that I have
> > had thus far.
> 
> Best wishes from Riley.
> 
> 


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