Ram , Flash requirements?

Ram , Flash requirements?

[Vidhiyadharan]

Hello everybody,

Iam new to this group. 

I have a 80186 board with 256 kb ram & 512 kb flash.
Is it possible to port ELKS with TCP/IP & PPP stack to this board ?.
Please give me your suggessions.

Thanks in advance

vdharan


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Re: Ram , Flash requirements?

[Gregg C Levine]

Hello from Gregg C Levine
Not that I know off. It happens that even though ELKS has been targeted at
that processor, it would need work on the kernel to enable the onchip
peripherals. But I am curious as to who makes your board. Is it on of the
demonstration boards made by Intel? Or one you've made yourself? And in that
case, how did you make it?
Gregg C Levine obiwanthejediknight@att.net
<This signature will be replaced, pending an approval from the Jedi Council.
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vidhiyadharan" <vdharan2001@yahoo.co.uk>
To: <linux-8086@vger.kernel.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 1:43 AM
Subject: Ram , Flash requirements?


> Hello everybody,
>
> Iam new to this group.
>
> I have a 80186 board with 256 kb ram & 512 kb flash.
> Is it possible to port ELKS with TCP/IP & PPP stack to this board ?.
> Please give me your suggessions.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> vdharan
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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Re: Ram , Flash requirements?

[Gregg C Levine]

Hello from Gregg C Levine normally with Jedi Knight Computers
I do not know. I simply asked whose design this unit was. It happens that I
asked that question early on, and Alan Cox sent me one that says that ELKS
would need work to run on the 80186 family. I suggest you search the
archives of this list to find his answer. I am interested in doing this as
well.
Gregg C Levine obiwanthejediknight@att.net
<This signature will be replaced, pending an approval from the Jedi Council.
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vidhiyadharan" <vdharan2001@yahoo.co.uk>
To: "Gregg C Levine" <obiwanthejediknight@worldnet.att.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: Ram , Flash requirements?


> Hello Mr Gregg C Levine
>
> OK we are ready to work on the kernel.
>
> No the board is not from intel. We  have made the board. We have
> developed such that it can be used as a multi purpose board.
> It has got 2 serial ports, ethernet interface, & a Realtime clock.
>
> We have not yet ported any RTOS into it.We want to put linux so that
> we need not develop TCP/IP, PPP stack from scrach.
>
> How should i begin with.?
>
> Please give me your suggessions.
>
> Regards
> vdharan
>
>
> --- Gregg C Levine <obiwanthejediknight@worldnet.att.net> wrote: >
> Hello from Gregg C Levine
> > Not that I know off. It happens that even though ELKS has been
> > targeted at
> > that processor, it would need work on the kernel to enable the
> > onchip
> > peripherals. But I am curious as to who makes your board. Is it on
> > of the
> > demonstration boards made by Intel? Or one you've made yourself?
> > And in that
> > case, how did you make it?
> > Gregg C Levine obiwanthejediknight@att.net
> > <This signature will be replaced, pending an approval from the Jedi
> > Council.
> > >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Vidhiyadharan" <vdharan2001@yahoo.co.uk>
> > To: <linux-8086@vger.kernel.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 1:43 AM
> > Subject: Ram , Flash requirements?
> >
> >
> > > Hello everybody,
> > >
> > > Iam new to this group.
> > >
> > > I have a 80186 board with 256 kb ram & 512 kb flash.
> > > Is it possible to port ELKS with TCP/IP & PPP stack to this board
> > ?.
> > > Please give me your suggessions.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance
> > >
> > > vdharan
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> > > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> > > http://uk.my.yahoo.com
> > > -
> > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe
> > linux-8086" in
> > > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> > > More majordomo info at
> > http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> > >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe
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>
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Re: Ram , Flash requirements?

[Dan Olson]

> Hello from Gregg C Levine normally with Jedi Knight Computers
> I do not know. I simply asked whose design this unit was. It happens that I
> asked that question early on, and Alan Cox sent me one that says that ELKS
> would need work to run on the 80186 family. I suggest you search the
> archives of this list to find his answer. I am interested in doing this as
> well.

Are you suggesting that ELKS wouldn't run on the 186 family for some
reason?  As a test, a V30 is code compatible with the 186, as the V20 is
with the 188.  As I understand it, the only thing that's special about the
186 is that it has some hardware integrated that the 8086 and other
CPUs would have outboard.

Does this board have the 512 flash memory mapped, or is it accessed though
an I/O port or by some other means?  If you have it memory mapped, then
you'd probably have enough of the memory address range used that you'd be
lacking a BIOS area.  Don't get me wrong, ELKS doesn't need to have PC
compatible hardware to run, but it would take a lot of hacking to modify
it as it seems like it relies on BIOS calls for most of it's I/O
currently.

	Dan

Re: Ram , Flash requirements?

[Dan Olson]

> No it doesn't; the only bit that _needs_ BIOS to work is BIOS HD/FH
> driver (d'oh) - if flash is mapped to 186's memory there's no need for
> such a driver, slightly modified ramdisk driver will do the trick. Other
> bits (serial, parallel, direct console) don't need BIOS to work, they
> just get port addresses from it (but these can be hardcoded anyway) ..
> and console driver will be replaced with serial console in embedded
> application.

True, I was thinking of console I/O mainly, but you're right, it wouldn't
be needed if a serial console is used.  I don't remember any mention of
what kind of I/O this system has, serial is a reasonable assumption but I
guess there could be a keyboard/monitor interface, or ISA bus or something
too.  Has anyone done a modified ramdisk driver as of yet?  There are some
embedded systems out there that people have been working on.  I don't know
if the kernal would need modification to do so, but it would be possible
to use the ram drive as the data memory, as it wouldn't need to be loaded
into RAM to be executed as is the case with a disk or port based RAM
drive.

	Dan

Re: Ram , Flash requirements?

[Gregg C Levine]

Hello from Gregg C Levine
Actually that may have been what I posted, but I think you've not read it
correctly. I said that it would run on that processor, but that according to
Alan Cox, a worker in the field of regular Linux whose opinions I value
strongly, suggested that the onchip peripherals of the 80186 family would
only be supported with work. Or something like that. I then suggested that
the original poster should check the archives of the list for Alan's actual
answer. I copied my answer to the list, because the original poster of the
question replied only to me. I suspect he didn't realize that when you click
reply on most Microsoft mailer programs it goes the to name on the message,
not to the list. And yes, I don't doubt that normal ELKS code will run
natively on all 8086 based hardware. The 80186 is a special case because it
was designed for embedded applications. I think the sibo code would run on
it, but I don't know. That's what I am suggesting. Have you yourself tried
it? I haven't. I am basing this on my many years of experience in the field.
Gregg C Levine obiwanthejediknight@att.net
<This signature will be replaced, pending an approval from the Jedi Council.
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Olson" <dano@agora.rdrop.com>
To: "ELKS" <Linux-8086@vger.kernel.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: Ram , Flash requirements?


> > Hello from Gregg C Levine normally with Jedi Knight Computers
> > I do not know. I simply asked whose design this unit was. It happens
that I
> > asked that question early on, and Alan Cox sent me one that says that
ELKS
> > would need work to run on the 80186 family. I suggest you search the
> > archives of this list to find his answer. I am interested in doing this
as
> > well.
>
> Are you suggesting that ELKS wouldn't run on the 186 family for some
> reason?  As a test, a V30 is code compatible with the 186, as the V20 is
> with the 188.  As I understand it, the only thing that's special about the
> 186 is that it has some hardware integrated that the 8086 and other
> CPUs would have outboard.
>
> Does this board have the 512 flash memory mapped, or is it accessed though
> an I/O port or by some other means?  If you have it memory mapped, then
> you'd probably have enough of the memory address range used that you'd be
> lacking a BIOS area.  Don't get me wrong, ELKS doesn't need to have PC
> compatible hardware to run, but it would take a lot of hacking to modify
> it as it seems like it relies on BIOS calls for most of it's I/O
> currently.
>
> Dan
>
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-8086" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>

Re: Ram , Flash requirements?

[Blaz Antonic]

> lacking a BIOS area.  Don't get me wrong, ELKS doesn't need to have PC
> compatible hardware to run, but it would take a lot of hacking to modify
> it as it seems like it relies on BIOS calls for most of it's I/O
> currently.

No it doesn't; the only bit that _needs_ BIOS to work is BIOS HD/FH
driver (d'oh) - if flash is mapped to 186's memory there's no need for
such a driver, slightly modified ramdisk driver will do the trick. Other
bits (serial, parallel, direct console) don't need BIOS to work, they
just get port addresses from it (but these can be hardcoded anyway) ..
and console driver will be replaced with serial console in embedded
application.

Blaz Antonic

Re: Ram , Flash requirements?

[Vidhiyadharan]

Thanks to all,

We have our 512Kb flash memory mapped.We have a keypad and a LCD
display. We have also developed a PC like bios for our system.
We have 2 serial ports & 1 can be used for console.

Therefore from your discussion i come to know that it is possible to
port ELKS to this board.

Is there any documentation for ELKS kernel ?.

ThankYou

         vdharan    


 --- Blaz Antonic <blaz.antonic@havn.com> wrote: > > lacking a BIOS
area.  Don't get me wrong, ELKS doesn't need to
> have PC
> > compatible hardware to run, but it would take a lot of hacking to
> modify
> > it as it seems like it relies on BIOS calls for most of it's I/O
> > currently.
> 
> No it doesn't; the only bit that _needs_ BIOS to work is BIOS HD/FH
> driver (d'oh) - if flash is mapped to 186's memory there's no need
> for
> such a driver, slightly modified ramdisk driver will do the trick.
> Other
> bits (serial, parallel, direct console) don't need BIOS to work,
> they
> just get port addresses from it (but these can be hardcoded anyway)
> ..
> and console driver will be replaced with serial console in embedded
> application.
> 
> Blaz Antonic
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe
> linux-8086" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html 

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Re: Ram , Flash requirements?

[Alan Cox]

> Are you suggesting that ELKS wouldn't run on the 186 family for some
> reason?  As a test, a V30 is code compatible with the 186, as the V20 is
> with the 188.  As I understand it, the only thing that's special about the
> 186 is that it has some hardware integrated that the 8086 and other
> CPUs would have outboard.

The 80186 embedded devices are very un pc-like. So you neednew drivers
A 186 PC ought to wrk fine

Re: Ram , Flash requirements?

[Dan Olson]

> Actually that may have been what I posted, but I think you've not read it
> correctly. I said that it would run on that processor, but that according to
> Alan Cox, a worker in the field of regular Linux whose opinions I value
> strongly, suggested that the onchip peripherals of the 80186 family would
> only be supported with work. Or something like that.

That could very well be, I was under the impression that the 186 was just
an 8086 but with some the other outboard chips used on the PC integrated.
I was at one point hoping to try to build my own 186 board.....but that
hasn't happened :)  It looked perty straight forward, if a large static
RAM is used, then the memory, RAM, and BIOS ROM would be a large portion
of a motherboard!  Maybe that's wishfull thinking.  Maybe someone will try
and and report back.  Anyone have a spair Tandy TRS-80 2000 laying around?

 I then suggested that
> the original poster should check the archives of the list for Alan's actual
> answer. I copied my answer to the list, because the original poster of the
> question replied only to me. I suspect he didn't realize that when you click
> reply on most Microsoft mailer programs it goes the to name on the message,
> not to the list.

That's actually because the "reply to" field isn't the list, but the
sender.  None of the other lists I'm on are that way.

 And yes, I don't doubt that normal ELKS code will run
> natively on all 8086 based hardware. The 80186 is a special case because it
> was designed for embedded applications. I think the sibo code would run on
> it, but I don't know. That's what I am suggesting. Have you yourself tried
> it? I haven't. I am basing this on my many years of experience in the field.

I don't know, I'm just basing this on what I read in a giant PDF I found
on the intel web site that includes the data sheet for the 188 and 186.
Like I say, maybe someone else out there will be able to give it a try.  I
might even donate a CPU to the cause :)

	Dan

Re: Ram , Flash requirements?

[Dan Olson]

> The 80186 embedded devices are very un pc-like. So you neednew drivers
> A 186 PC ought to wrk fine

Are the integrated components included in the 80186 different than those
found as seperate components on PCs?

	Dan

Re: Ram , Flash requirements?

[Alan Cox]

> Are the integrated components included in the 80186 different than those
> found as seperate components on PCs?

Yes - it has on board DMA controllers an the like but no PC like devices

Re: Ram , Flash requirements?

[Alan Cox]

> That could very well be, I was under the impression that the 186 was just
> an 8086 but with some the other outboard chips used on the PC integrated.
> I was at one point hoping to try to build my own 186 board.....but that
> hasn't happened :)  It looked perty straight forward, if a large static


8086 - original
8088 - original 8bit bud
80186 - less glue, some hndy instruction extras
801*86 series - embedded 80186 - non PC like device

Re: Ram , Flash requirements?

[Bdale Garbee]

alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (Alan Cox) writes:

> > Are the integrated components included in the 80186 different than those
> > found as seperate components on PCs?
> 
> Yes - it has on board DMA controllers an the like but no PC like devices

On the other hand, having even just the serial console in an 80186 and a 
ramdisk driver working would be an excellant start for some things I'd like
to try at some point.  Though, actually, the CPU I care the most about in 
this genre is the NEC V53...  So many good ideas, so little time.

Bdale