From: David Gibson <david@gibson.dropbear.id.au>
To: Herve Codina <herve.codina@bootlin.com>
Cc: Rob Herring <robh@kernel.org>,
Krzysztof Kozlowski <krzk@kernel.org>,
Conor Dooley <conor+dt@kernel.org>,
Laurent Pinchart <laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com>,
David Lechner <dlechner@baylibre.com>,
Ayush Singh <ayush@beagleboard.org>,
Geert Uytterhoeven <geert@linux-m68k.org>,
devicetree-compiler@vger.kernel.org, devicetree@vger.kernel.org,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, devicetree-spec@vger.kernel.org,
Hui Pu <hui.pu@gehealthcare.com>,
Ian Ray <ian.ray@gehealthcare.com>,
Luca Ceresoli <luca.ceresoli@bootlin.com>,
Thomas Petazzoni <thomas.petazzoni@bootlin.com>,
Frank Li <Frank.Li@nxp.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 15/15] Introduce v18 dtb version
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2026 13:48:25 +1100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <auQFaTMTTMFZtia3@gractus.seuss> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20261030010228.34d9daca@bootlin.com>
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On Fri, Oct 30, 2026 at 01:02:28AM +0100, Herve Codina wrote:
> Hi David,
>
> I know you are busy but if you could give me your opinion on this last
> message that would be greatly appreciated.
>
> I've started to prepare the next iteration of the series adding support for
> "structured" tags and their definition need to be stable to move forward.
>
> The question to answer to complete the definition of the "structured" tag
> format is: Should SAFE_SKIP bit be re-introduced?
Sorry, I lost track of this one amongst all the rest of the activity.
> IMHO, it should.
>
> Best regards,
> Hervé
>
> On Wed, 21 Oct 2026 15:59:23 +0200
> Herve Codina <herve.codina@bootlin.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi David,
> >
> > On Wed, 21 Oct 2026 13:26:49 +1100
> > David Gibson <david@gibson.dropbear.id.au> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Correct. Btw, I know I suggested "skippable tag" as a term, but given
> > > how that gets kind of misleading in the case of writes, I'm coming to
> > > prefer the orignal "structured tag" term.
> >
> > Ok, no problem to switch back to "structured tag". On my side also, I prefer
> > this term.
> >
> > Now I think that the bit indicating if a structured tag can be skip or not
> > should be kept. I know the we can use "old" tag format when a tag cannot be
> > skipped but I thing that using structured tags for those tags can lead to some
> > benefit. For instance, in fdt_tag_next() we can benefit of the data size
> > encoded for structured tags for all king of structured tags (skippable and not
> > skippable) and retrieve the next tag without the need for parsing data related
> > to a tag. When tag has a string as data, without the length we have to scan the
> > string to find its end. Of course we can add the length if the tag definition
> > but this is automatically implied if we use a structured tag.
> >
> > So for structured tag, I can propose:
> > - bit 31: 1 to identify a structured tag
> > - bit 30: SAFE_SKIP bit (1 if we can skip, O otherwise)
> > - bit 29..24: Data lendth encoding
> > 0b000000: No data
> > 0b000001: 1 32bit word of data
> > ...
> > 0b111110: 63 x 32bit words data
> > 0b111111: varlen encoding (1 32bit word added after the tag to encode the
> > data length in bytes.
> > - bit 23..0: Tag id
> >
> > Without the SAFE_SKIP bit, all structured tags must be skippable. IMHO, we
> > could regret this limitation in the future.
> >
> > The cost of the SAFE_SKIP bit is not a lot. When we check to see if an
> > unkwown tag can be skipped, we are going to move from
> > if (tag & 1<31)
> > to
> > if ((tag & (1<31 | 1<<30)) == (1<31 | 1<<30))
> >
> > IHMO, this is acceptable.
> >
> > Of course, if the SAFE_SKIP bit is re-introduced, I will also re-add the test
> > checking that unknown structured tag that cannot be skipped leads
> > to an error.
So, I'm not entirely convinced either way. However, I have a
semi-related thought that might sidestep the question for the time
being.
I think it would be a good idea to leave some bits reserved, in case
there's some more structured information we want to put in later. One
candidate might be "invalidated-when-X-happens" type bits which we
considered when discussing the versioning. I think we can spare the
bits, since both tag and especially id fields are pretty generous at
the moment (23 bits when our entire current existing tagset fits in 4
bits with a bunch of spare room).
For reserved bits to be safe to use later we must insist and enforce
that they be 0 for now. That means setting any reserved bit
effectively makes it a non-skippable tag for the time being. Or to
put it another way, that means we can amongst other things add an
(inverted) SAFE_SKIP bit in future if we discover we want it.
--
David Gibson (he or they) | I'll have my music baroque, and my code
david AT gibson.dropbear.id.au | minimalist, thank you, not the other way
| around.
http://www.ozlabs.org/~dgibson
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2026-10-30 3:16 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 104+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2026-08-26 8:31 [PATCH v3 00/15] Add support for structured tags and v18 dtb version Herve Codina
2026-08-26 8:31 ` [PATCH v3 01/15] fdtget: Use libfdt iterators instead of open coded loops Herve Codina
2026-08-27 3:55 ` David Gibson
2026-08-26 8:31 ` [PATCH v3 02/15] libfdt: Don't assume the root node is available at offset 0 Herve Codina
2026-08-30 3:21 ` David Gibson
2026-08-31 12:01 ` Herve Codina
2026-09-01 7:42 ` David Gibson
2026-09-01 12:18 ` Herve Codina
2026-09-02 7:06 ` David Gibson
2026-09-07 16:46 ` Herve Codina
2026-09-08 6:41 ` David Gibson
2026-09-08 8:08 ` Herve Codina
2026-09-09 6:18 ` David Gibson
2026-09-09 6:58 ` Herve Codina
2026-09-09 7:02 ` David Gibson
2026-08-26 8:31 ` [PATCH v3 03/15] tests: " Herve Codina
2026-09-01 8:03 ` David Gibson
2026-09-01 13:36 ` Herve Codina
2026-09-02 8:56 ` David Gibson
2026-08-26 8:31 ` [PATCH v3 04/15] tests/nopulate: Add a FDT_NOP before the root node Herve Codina
2026-09-01 8:05 ` David Gibson
2026-08-26 8:31 ` [PATCH v3 05/15] tests: treegen: Introduce emit_fdt_header_vers() Herve Codina
2026-09-09 6:38 ` David Gibson
2026-08-26 8:31 ` [PATCH v3 06/15] Introduce structured tag value definition Herve Codina
2026-09-10 4:51 ` David Gibson
[not found] ` <20260910094126.4bf4cae6@bootlin.com>
2026-09-10 9:32 ` David Gibson
2026-09-11 7:16 ` Herve Codina
2026-09-12 2:34 ` David Gibson
2026-09-14 10:19 ` Herve Codina
2026-09-16 5:21 ` David Gibson
2026-09-17 7:04 ` Herve Codina
2026-09-18 4:41 ` David Gibson
2026-09-18 8:16 ` Herve Codina
2026-09-19 4:22 ` David Gibson
2026-09-22 6:41 ` Herve Codina
2026-09-24 3:49 ` David Gibson
2026-09-25 10:48 ` Herve Codina
2026-09-26 1:49 ` David Gibson
2026-09-10 5:33 ` David Gibson
2026-09-10 7:58 ` Herve Codina
2026-09-10 9:41 ` David Gibson
2026-09-11 7:53 ` Herve Codina
2026-09-12 2:35 ` David Gibson
2026-09-17 8:56 ` Herve Codina
2026-08-26 8:31 ` [PATCH v3 07/15] fdtdump: Handle unknown tags Herve Codina
2026-09-10 5:25 ` David Gibson
2026-09-10 8:27 ` Herve Codina
2026-08-26 8:31 ` [PATCH v3 08/15] flattree: " Herve Codina
2026-09-14 8:23 ` David Gibson
2026-09-15 10:16 ` Herve Codina
2026-09-15 11:52 ` David Gibson
2026-09-16 6:31 ` Herve Codina
2026-09-16 8:27 ` David Gibson
2026-09-17 7:11 ` Herve Codina
2026-08-26 8:31 ` [PATCH v3 09/15] libfdt: Handle unknown tags in fdt_next_tag() Herve Codina
2026-09-16 9:10 ` David Gibson
2026-09-17 8:34 ` Herve Codina
2026-09-17 9:36 ` David Gibson
2026-09-17 17:28 ` Herve Codina
2026-09-19 4:46 ` David Gibson
2026-09-30 16:47 ` Herve Codina
2026-10-01 3:07 ` David Gibson
2026-08-26 8:31 ` [PATCH v3 10/15] libfdt: Introduce fdt_ptr_offset_() Herve Codina
2026-08-26 8:31 ` [PATCH v3 11/15] libfdt: Introduce fdt_getprop_by_offset_w() Herve Codina
2026-09-16 9:56 ` David Gibson
2026-09-16 10:42 ` Herve Codina
2026-09-17 4:52 ` David Gibson
2026-09-17 8:43 ` Herve Codina
2026-08-26 8:31 ` [PATCH v3 12/15] libfdt: Introduce fdt_getprop_offset_namelen() Herve Codina
2026-09-21 6:07 ` David Gibson
2026-09-22 16:25 ` Herve Codina
2026-10-23 7:25 ` Herve Codina
2026-10-25 2:32 ` David Gibson
2026-10-26 8:36 ` Herve Codina
2026-08-26 8:31 ` [PATCH v3 13/15] tests: Add wip_func utility Herve Codina
2026-09-16 10:00 ` David Gibson
2026-09-16 17:27 ` Herve Codina
2026-08-26 8:31 ` [PATCH v3 14/15] libfdt: Handle unknown tags on dtb modifications Herve Codina
2026-09-21 6:06 ` David Gibson
2026-09-25 12:40 ` Herve Codina
2026-09-28 4:39 ` David Gibson
2026-09-28 14:54 ` Herve Codina
2026-08-26 8:31 ` [PATCH v3 15/15] Introduce v18 dtb version Herve Codina
2026-09-21 6:20 ` David Gibson
2026-09-25 13:21 ` Herve Codina
2026-10-13 7:10 ` David Gibson
2026-10-13 17:03 ` Herve Codina
2026-10-16 5:18 ` David Gibson
2026-10-19 13:11 ` Herve Codina
2026-10-21 2:26 ` David Gibson
2026-10-21 13:59 ` Herve Codina
2026-10-30 0:02 ` Herve Codina
2026-10-30 2:48 ` David Gibson [this message]
2026-10-21 15:20 ` Herve Codina
2026-10-22 3:17 ` David Gibson
2026-10-22 13:14 ` Herve Codina
2026-10-23 2:57 ` David Gibson
2026-10-23 8:55 ` Herve Codina
2026-10-25 2:11 ` David Gibson
2026-10-26 8:42 ` Herve Codina
2026-10-27 2:23 ` David Gibson
2026-10-13 17:04 ` Ayush Singh
2026-10-13 17:23 ` Herve Codina
2026-10-13 19:49 ` Ayush Singh
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