Re: ax25-apps/-tools: clarification about the project status

[Ken Koster <n7ipb@wetnet.net>]

I had started a reply of my own,  but Tomi has already said much of it, 
probably more eloquently than I would.

Read on for a couple of additional comments.

On Sunday 25 January 2009, Tomi Manninen wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I haven't had anything AX.25 related running for several years
> now, and I don't feel very strongly about the development.
> However, I think I need to comment a few things Thomas said.
> 
> Thomas Osterried wrote:
> 
> > linux-hams is a mixed mailing-list for all kind of ham related linux
> > applications, kernel problems, beginner questions, etc.
> > 
> > And in the special case of issues with libax25, ax25-apps and
> > ax25-tools, it's doubtless *one* possible place in the world where
> > problems and solutions *may* be discussed.
> 
> Right from the start (or at least from very early on) and many many
> years after, linux-hams@vger was _the_ place to discuss Linux AX.25.
> 
> A separate (invitation only) dev-hams was founded at some point,
> mainly to be able to keep people like Alan in the loop. Back
> then, linux-hams was a moderately high volume mailing list and
> the signal to noise ratio was considerably lower than today.
> 
> But still, _this_ was always _the_ list. "Everything" happened here.
> 
>  > We're sure you understand that it's not possible for us to follow and
>  > participate in all discussions in all the known and all the unkonwn
>  > places in cyberspace.
>  > Btw, if more users whould have acted as informer, we'd have visited
>  > that place.
> 
> That is understood. But why you (seemingly) chose to abandon this
> list, I don't quite understand. At least nowadays this is a very
> low bandwidth list and I think it was pretty much so at the time
> Ralf took over.
> 
> I don't know where the discussion happens nowadays (if not here).
> Apparently quite a few other people don't know it either, judging
> by the messages on this list.

Ironically,  if you go to http://www.linux-ax25.org the mailing list link
points you to linux-hams@vger.kernel.org.

Of course the archive it points you to (if you're like me and want to
catch up on what's happing) stops in August of 2007.  Again ironically
enough that months archive starts with a comment from me about
how nice it would be if we had a new official release.

> 
> If you choose to set up a new place to discuss, that is of course
> just fine. But you can not expect people to just follow. And it
> might be just me, but _I_ haven't noticed an announcement saying
> that this list has ceased to be The Place, and from now on
> discussion is at the mailing list xxx *) at yyy...
> 
> > But here's the point where your own responsibility starts: if you find
> > a bug, if you have problems compiling or configuring, if you need a
> > new feature, if you have traced a problem down, if you luckily have a
> > patch, if you like to contribute, then *please* send an e-mail to us,
> > the maintainers of the software!
> 
> Couldn't agree more. And I too have seen this. At least in the
> ham radio world, an open source developer is rather lonely.
> For example with LinuxNode, I knew there were several spin-offs
> out there, but _none_ of the spin-off developers ever contacted me.
>
And here I agree with Tomi,  I'm more than happy to submit bug reports
but my ax.25 use is almost completely limited to aprs and TCP/IP with
UI frames so the issues currently under discussion are not something
I've encountered, til now when someone asked for help.

> But again I have to say, from the point of view of someone that
> is not all that interested in the stuff anymore, and _only_
> follows this mailing list, you gyus have kept quite a low profile...

And this seems to be the real problem.
 
> > We really cannot understand,
> 
> And that is why I wrote this.
> 
> I have nothing but the greatest respect of what you are doing.
> It is good to see that things are not dead and I just hope
> that some of the stuff I have done in the past is helpful
> in what you do now.

And I'll add that I too have great respect for the work you and the
other maintainers have been doing, it's just that none of it seems
to be visible.
 
> So please take this email as constructive critisism and a
> possible explanation for the things you see. I don't know
> why other people have not contacted you, but I must say
> that if I were to activate myself and do some development
> work for Linux AX.25, _this_ would be the place I would send
> patches for review. I might remember to CC Ralf, but not
> necessarily. Sorry.
>
> 73, Tomi
> 
> *) Like I said, I don't feel very strongly about linux ax.25
> anymore, but I do feel _very_ strongly about using wikis and
> web forums for discussion on open source software. It sucks!
> I just hope that isn't happening here...

And to that I'll add 'IRC' channels.

Ken Koster - N7IPB