From: Mimi Zohar <zohar@linux.ibm.com>
To: Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>
Cc: "Paul Moore" <paul@paul-moore.com>,
"James Morris" <jmorris@namei.org>,
"Serge E. Hallyn" <serge@hallyn.com>,
"Dmitry Kasatkin" <dmitry.kasatkin@gmail.com>,
"Mickaël Salaün" <mic@digikod.net>, "Petr Vorel" <pvorel@suse.cz>,
"Borislav Petkov" <bp@suse.de>, "Takashi Iwai" <tiwai@suse.de>,
"Jonathan McDowell" <noodles@fb.com>,
linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org,
linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, "KP Singh" <kpsingh@kernel.org>,
"Casey Schaufler" <casey@schaufler-ca.com>,
"John Johansen" <john.johansen@canonical.com>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/9] security: Move trivial IMA hooks into LSM
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2022 16:45:41 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <ffa58bb09df15a9debc45aaf0ed51f2b34f5c225.camel@linux.ibm.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <202210191134.FC646AFC71@keescook>
On Wed, 2022-10-19 at 11:59 -0700, Kees Cook wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 10:34:48AM -0400, Mimi Zohar wrote:
> > On Thu, 2022-10-13 at 15:36 -0700, Kees Cook wrote:
> > > This moves the trivial hard-coded stacking of IMA LSM hooks into the
> > > existing LSM infrastructure.
> >
> > The only thing trivial about making IMA and EVM LSMs is moving them to
> > LSM hooks. Although static files may be signed and the signatures
> > distributed with the file data through the normal distribution
> > mechanisms (e.g. RPM), other files cannot be signed remotely (e.g.
> > configuration files). For these files, both IMA and EVM may be
> > configured to maintain persistent file state stored as security xattrs
> > in the form of security.ima file hashes or security.evm HMACs. The LSM
> > flexibility of enabling/disabling IMA or EVM on a per boot basis breaks
> > this usage, potentially preventing subsequent boots.
>
> I'm not suggesting IMA and EVM don't have specific behaviors that need to
> be correctly integrated into the LSM infrastructure. In fact, I spent a
> lot of time designing that infrastructure to be flexible enough to deal
> with these kinds of things. (e.g. plumbing "enablement", etc.) As I
> mentioned, this was more of trying to provide a head-start on the
> conversion. I don't intend to drive this -- please take whatever is
> useful from this example and use it. :) I'm happy to help construct any
> missing infrastructure needed (e.g. LSM_ORDER_LAST, etc).
>
> As for preventing subsequent boots, this is already true with other LSMs
> that save state that affects system behavior (like SELinux tags, AppArmor
> policy). IMA and EVM are not special in that regard conceptually.
> Besides, it also looks like it's already possible to boot with IMA or EVM
> disabled ("ima_appraise=off", or "evm=fix"), so there's no regression
> conceptually for having "integrity" get dropped from the lsm= list at
> boot. And if you want it not to be silent disabling, that's fine --
> just panic during initialization if "integrity" is disabled, as is
> already happening.
Being able to specify "ima_appraise=" on the boot command line requires
IMA_APPRAISE_BOOTPARAM to be configured. Even when specified, if the
system is booted with secure-boot mode enabled, it also cannot be
modified. With the ability of randomly enabling/disabling LSMs, these
protections are useless.
>
> Note that, generally speaking, LSMs have three initialization points:
> LSM init, fs_initcall, and late_initcall:
IMA initialization is deferred to late_initcall to allow the TPM to
finish initializing. It doesn't make a difference when the iint_cache
is initialized. It just needs to be prior to IMA/EVM initializiation.
>
> $ grep -R _initcall security/*/ | wc -l
> 31
>
> This, again, isn't different for IMA or EVM. The LSM infrastructure is
> about gathering and standardizing the requirements needed to run security
> hooks in a common way. The goal isn't to break IMA/EVM -- anything
> needed can be created for it. The goal is to remove _exceptions_ to the
> common hook mechanism.
>
> BTW, are there examples of how to test an IMA/EVM system? I couldn't
> find any pre-existing test images one can boot in QEMU, or instructions
> on how to create such an image, but I could have missed it.
There are specific tests in LTP, kselftests, and ima-evm-utils, but
they are incomplete.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2022-10-19 20:46 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 44+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2022-10-13 22:36 [PATCH 0/9] integrity: Move hooks into LSM Kees Cook
2022-10-13 22:36 ` [PATCH 1/9] integrity: Prepare for having "ima" and "evm" available in "integrity" LSM Kees Cook
2022-10-14 14:40 ` Mickaël Salaün
2022-10-14 17:59 ` Kees Cook
2022-10-17 9:26 ` Mickaël Salaün
2022-10-17 18:11 ` Kees Cook
2022-10-19 18:33 ` Kees Cook
2022-10-19 19:13 ` Mimi Zohar
2022-10-19 22:37 ` Kees Cook
2022-10-19 14:34 ` Mimi Zohar
2022-10-19 18:28 ` Kees Cook
2022-10-13 22:36 ` [PATCH 2/9] security: Move trivial IMA hooks into LSM Kees Cook
2022-10-19 14:34 ` Mimi Zohar
2022-10-19 18:59 ` Kees Cook
2022-10-19 20:45 ` Mimi Zohar [this message]
2022-10-19 23:41 ` Kees Cook
2022-10-20 12:17 ` Mimi Zohar
2022-10-21 14:53 ` Dr. Greg
2022-10-21 15:09 ` Casey Schaufler
2022-10-13 22:36 ` [PATCH 3/9] ima: Move xattr " Kees Cook
2022-10-18 15:07 ` Christian Brauner
2022-10-19 13:24 ` Mimi Zohar
2022-10-13 22:36 ` [PATCH 4/9] ima: Move ima_file_free() " Kees Cook
2022-10-18 15:02 ` Christian Brauner
2022-10-18 15:32 ` Roberto Sassu
2022-10-18 18:29 ` Kees Cook
2022-10-19 6:55 ` Roberto Sassu
2022-10-20 15:47 ` Paul Moore
2022-10-13 22:36 ` [PATCH 5/9] LSM: Introduce inode_post_setattr hook Kees Cook
2022-10-18 14:50 ` Christian Brauner
2022-10-13 22:36 ` [PATCH 6/9] fs: Introduce file_to_perms() helper Kees Cook
2022-10-18 14:10 ` Christian Brauner
2022-10-18 18:25 ` Kees Cook
2022-10-20 17:29 ` Casey Schaufler
2022-10-20 23:04 ` Kees Cook
2022-10-13 22:36 ` [PATCH 7/9] ima: Move ima_file_check() into LSM Kees Cook
2022-10-13 22:36 ` [PATCH 8/9] integrity: Move trivial hooks " Kees Cook
2022-10-13 22:36 ` [PATCH 9/9] integrity: Move integrity_inode_get() out of global header Kees Cook
2022-10-13 22:47 ` [PATCH 0/9] integrity: Move hooks into LSM Paul Moore
2022-10-14 1:16 ` Mimi Zohar
2022-10-18 15:31 ` Mickaël Salaün
2022-10-18 15:38 ` Roberto Sassu
2022-10-18 18:31 ` Kees Cook
2022-10-20 17:36 ` Casey Schaufler
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