Re: [PATCH v4 2/4] man/man5/tunables.conf: Document system-wide tunables config

["G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com>]

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At 2026-08-06T23:29:43-0400, DJ Delorie wrote:
> The problem I had with .PD placement was not the compactness of the
> list itself, but the inter-line spacing between the list and
> previous/following paragraphs.  You just have to know to put the .PDs
> before the paragraphs that come after the space you want to affect:

Right.  But having to know that is one of those fiddly details that
deters people from using man(7), no?

https://lore.kernel.org/linux-man/xnse5q90jp.fsf@greed.delorie.com/

> .P
> normal paragraph
> .P
> * list item
> .PD 0
> .P
> * list item
> .P
> * list item
> .P
> * list item
> .PD
> .P
> normal paragraph
> 
> My HTML background had me put the first .PD before the first list
> item, which bunched the list up against the previous paragraph.

Control of this sort of detail of formatting is, I submit, more
straightforward with the new `LS`/`LE` macros forthcoming in groff 1.25.
If you want a (compact) list bunched up against the preceding paragraph,
don't put a `P`[1] between the paragraph text and the list.  If you
don't want it bunched, _do_ put a `P` there.

Here's an illustration of your example above using each method.

$ cat ATTIC/dj-delorie-demo-PD.man
.TH foo 1 2026-08-06 "groff test suite"
.SH Name
foo \- frobnicate a bar
.SH Description
Baz qux.
.P
normal paragraph
.P
* list item 1
.PD 0
.P
* list item 2
.P
* list item 3
.P
* list item 4
.PD
.P
normal paragraph
$ cat ATTIC/dj-delorie-demo-LS-LE.man
.TH foo 1 2026-08-06 "groff test suite"
.SH Name
foo \- frobnicate a bar
.SH Description
Baz qux.
.P
normal paragraph
.P
.LS itemized 1 2n
.IP *
list item 1
.IP *
list item 2
.IP *
list item 3
.IP *
list item 4
.LE
.P
normal paragraph

These render the same.  Here, I'll prove it:

$ nroff -man ATTIC/dj-delorie-demo-PD.man >| dj-PD.txt
$ nroff -man ATTIC/dj-delorie-demo-LS-LE.man >| dj-LS-LE.txt
$ cksum dj-*
3663585518 394 dj-LS-LE.txt
3663585518 394 dj-PD.txt

Since groff 1.25.0 isn't released yet, let me add full disclosure.

$ nroff --version | head -n 1
GNU nroff (groff) version 1.25.0.rc2.16-0e05a

The result?

$ cat dj-LS-LE.txt
foo(1)                       General Commands Manual                      foo(1)

Name
     foo - frobnicate a bar

Description
     Baz qux.

     normal paragraph

     * list item 1
     * list item 2
     * list item 3
     * list item 4

     normal paragraph

groff test suite                   2026‐08‐06                             foo(1)

Regards,
Branden

[1] or its synonyms `PP` or `LP`

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