pppoe * rp-pppoe * pppd?????

pppoe * rp-pppoe * pppd?????

[Hal MacArgle]

Greetings: I'm lost in a bewilderment of HOWTO's, Docs, FAQ's, etc
about PPPOE and ADSL Modems.. The more I read the worse it gets.
<grin>

However, my one query for the list is:

Using the Roaring Penguin PPPOE client, rp-pppoe; do I really need
PPP support too?? Or does that client include PPP support.. No success
yet I've got to eliminate some parameters..

Both are legitimate packages in Slackware 10-l and I'll go ahead and
try all the different ways but could use some possible comments..

Cheers and TIA..

-- 

    Hal - in Terra Alta, WV/US - Slackware GNU/Linux 10.1   (2.4.29)
.
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Re: pppoe * rp-pppoe * pppd?????

[Eric Bambach]

On Sunday 27 November 2005 02:03 pm, Hal MacArgle wrote:
> Greetings: I'm lost in a bewilderment of HOWTO's, Docs, FAQ's, etc
> about PPPOE and ADSL Modems.. The more I read the worse it gets.
> <grin>
>
> However, my one query for the list is:
>
> Using the Roaring Penguin PPPOE client, rp-pppoe; do I really need
> PPP support too?? Or does that client include PPP support.. No success
> yet I've got to eliminate some parameters..

Yes. As far as I know rp-ppoe are wrapper scripts that still use ppp as a 
backend.

> Both are legitimate packages in Slackware 10-l and I'll go ahead and
> try all the different ways but could use some possible comments..
>
> Cheers and TIA..

-- 
----------------------------------------
--EB

> All is fine except that I can reliably "oops" it simply by trying to read
> from /proc/apm (e.g. cat /proc/apm).
> oops output and ksymoops-2.3.4 output is attached.
> Is there anything else I can contribute?

The latitude and longtitude of the bios writers current position, and
a ballistic missile.

                --Alan Cox LKML-December 08,2000 

----------------------------------------
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Re: pppoe * rp-pppoe * pppd?????

[chuck gelm]

Hal MacArgle wrote:

>Greetings: I'm lost in a bewilderment of HOWTO's, Docs, FAQ's, etc
>about PPPOE and ADSL Modems.. The more I read the worse it gets.
><grin>
>
>However, my one query for the list is:
>
>Using the Roaring Penguin PPPOE client, rp-pppoe; do I really need
>PPP support too?? Or does that client include PPP support.. No success
>yet I've got to eliminate some parameters..
>
>Both are legitimate packages in Slackware 10-l and I'll go ahead and
>try all the different ways but could use some possible comments..
>
>Cheers and TIA..
>  
>
Hi, Hal:

"...do I really need PPP support too??"

 Yes!!

 I use Slackware and I used Roaring Penguin for several years
until one year ago (when I switched from aDSL to cable).  I
started with Earthlink (which had excellent support) and later
switched to Ameritech/SBC/Yahoo (which had horrible support).

 It seems to me that you did not describe any problem and you
asked a very specific question.  I am unwilling to offer further
information until you describe your setup.

Best regards, Chuck

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Re: pppoe * rp-pppoe * pppd?????

[Hal MacArgle]

On 11-28, chuck gelm wrote:
> Hal MacArgle wrote:
> 
> >Greetings: I'm lost in a bewilderment of HOWTO's, Docs, FAQ's, etc
> >about PPPOE and ADSL Modems.. The more I read the worse it gets.
> ><grin>
> >
> >However, my one query for the list is:
> >
> >Using the Roaring Penguin PPPOE client, rp-pppoe; do I really need
> >PPP support too?? Or does that client include PPP support.. No success
> >yet I've got to eliminate some parameters..
> >
> >Both are legitimate packages in Slackware 10-l and I'll go ahead and
> >try all the different ways but could use some possible comments..
> >
> >Cheers and TIA..
> > 
> >
> Hi, Hal:
> 
> "...do I really need PPP support too??"
> 
> Yes!!
> 
> I use Slackware and I used Roaring Penguin for several years
> until one year ago (when I switched from aDSL to cable).  I
> started with Earthlink (which had excellent support) and later
> switched to Ameritech/SBC/Yahoo (which had horrible support).
> 
> It seems to me that you did not describe any problem and you
> asked a very specific question.  I am unwilling to offer further
> information until you describe your setup.

	OK, thanks, bear with this old man.. And, thanks Eric for
your reaffirmation that ppp is needed along with pppoe.. But, does
rp-pppoe "include" ppp /or/ do I need to setup ppp separately??
Slackware has a script 'pppsetup' that, first off, asks for a
telephone number, so that can't be used it seems...

	Anyway; Chuck here's the, more or less, details.. ( My rings
to Verizon's tech support, at least the one I got, knew nothing of
what I was talking about).. The more I read the more I find that the
ISP's are different as well as the modems, not to mention two
different encodings; CAP or DMT, neither compatible.. Did your ISP
use the same as ours; Verizon?? Who knows.. Verizon, a Baby Bell
Telco uses PPPOE, rather than several other options; all designed to
confuse even experts... (There was a listing on the Web pertaining to
this and Verizon, but it's either gone or down now.) Maybe Verizon
"locks" out anything but M$ access??

	My neighbour bought the package, paying one year up front and
received a 'kit' with the modem & cables plus a setup CD and several
micro filters.. Apparently her username and password plus DNS stuff
has to be via the software; it's not printed anywhere... I fired up
her modem and the ready led blinked then stayed steady indicating the
modem has received the DSLAM signal from the CO, one block away, and,
IIRC, means the system is in "sync."

	I fired up her Gateway XP Home version machine and ran the
install CD that visually and verbally took me thru boo coo minutes of
really basic stuff about hooking up the microfilters, etc, etc.. It,
finally, got to the nitty gritty with the terse comment, "This may
take some time." After a half hour of watching a twirling ziggy I
turned the machine off.. Back to the drawing board...

	Since all M$ stuff intimidates me I thought I'd ring it out
with a Linux box, at her site, to see if, perhaps, her NIC card was
at fault: Slackware 10.1 w/ both the ppp and rp-pppoe packages
installed.. Modprobe ne io=0x300; NIC enabled and OK.. modprobe
pppoe, again OK.. ifconfig 10.0.0.1 eth0 mtu 1492, again OK..
Invoking adsl-setup, I answered with a guessed username, no firewall,
making sure eth0 was there, and have to stop here because my notes
are confusing, except that, since I didn't really connect to the ISP;
I tried another, same brand but different model modem; one that had
been used before by another person 500 miles from here and was
working.. The difference between the modems is that one is marked
"bridge modem" and the other, in the kit, a "router modem." Don't
know if that tells anything much in this case.. Neither one
connected, not that I know what to expect from the ISP, which
happens, in this case, to be the same as the Telco, viz, Verizon..

	Am I outliving my welcome?? I've got to keep better notes..

	Is the above enough for futher comments?? I guess what I
basically need to know now is the relationship between rp-pppoe and
ppp with the above lashup.. I can't try what I'm used to: 'pppsetup'
that Slackware uses because you can't get by the first entry required
of the telephone number for dialup.. Does installing rp-pppoe take
care of installing the necessary ppp routines?? Or are both needed,
separately??

	Appreciate!
-- 

    Hal - in Terra Alta, WV/US - Slackware GNU/Linux 10.1   (2.4.29)
.
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Re: pppoe * rp-pppoe * pppd?????

[Eric Bambach]

On Monday 28 November 2005 10:11 am, Hal MacArgle wrote:
> On 11-28, chuck gelm wrote:
> > Hal MacArgle wrote:
> > >Greetings: I'm lost in a bewilderment of HOWTO's, Docs, FAQ's, etc
> > >about PPPOE and ADSL Modems.. The more I read the worse it gets.
> > ><grin>
> > >
> > >However, my one query for the list is:
> > >
> > >Using the Roaring Penguin PPPOE client, rp-pppoe; do I really need
> > >PPP support too?? Or does that client include PPP support.. No success
> > >yet I've got to eliminate some parameters..
> > >
> > >Both are legitimate packages in Slackware 10-l and I'll go ahead and
> > >try all the different ways but could use some possible comments..
> > >
> > >Cheers and TIA..
> >
> > Hi, Hal:
> >
> > "...do I really need PPP support too??"
> >
> > Yes!!
> >
> > I use Slackware and I used Roaring Penguin for several years
> > until one year ago (when I switched from aDSL to cable).  I
> > started with Earthlink (which had excellent support) and later
> > switched to Ameritech/SBC/Yahoo (which had horrible support).
> >
> > It seems to me that you did not describe any problem and you
> > asked a very specific question.  I am unwilling to offer further
> > information until you describe your setup.
>
> 	OK, thanks, bear with this old man.. And, thanks Eric for
> your reaffirmation that ppp is needed along with pppoe.. But, does
> rp-pppoe "include" ppp /or/ do I need to setup ppp separately??
> Slackware has a script 'pppsetup' that, first off, asks for a
> telephone number, so that can't be used it seems...
>
> 	Anyway; Chuck here's the, more or less, details.. ( My rings
> to Verizon's tech support, at least the one I got, knew nothing of
> what I was talking about).. The more I read the more I find that the
> ISP's are different as well as the modems, not to mention two
> different encodings; CAP or DMT, neither compatible.. Did your ISP
> use the same as ours; Verizon?? Who knows.. Verizon, a Baby Bell
> Telco uses PPPOE, rather than several other options; all designed to
> confuse even experts... (There was a listing on the Web pertaining to
> this and Verizon, but it's either gone or down now.) Maybe Verizon
> "locks" out anything but M$ access??
>
> 	My neighbour bought the package, paying one year up front and
> received a 'kit' with the modem & cables plus a setup CD and several
> micro filters.. Apparently her username and password plus DNS stuff
> has to be via the software; it's not printed anywhere... I fired up
> her modem and the ready led blinked then stayed steady indicating the
> modem has received the DSLAM signal from the CO, one block away, and,
> IIRC, means the system is in "sync."
>
> 	I fired up her Gateway XP Home version machine and ran the
> install CD that visually and verbally took me thru boo coo minutes of
> really basic stuff about hooking up the microfilters, etc, etc.. It,
> finally, got to the nitty gritty with the terse comment, "This may
> take some time." After a half hour of watching a twirling ziggy I
> turned the machine off.. Back to the drawing board...
>
> 	Since all M$ stuff intimidates me I thought I'd ring it out
> with a Linux box, at her site, to see if, perhaps, her NIC card was
> at fault: Slackware 10.1 w/ both the ppp and rp-pppoe packages
> installed.. Modprobe ne io=0x300; NIC enabled and OK.. modprobe
> pppoe, again OK.. ifconfig 10.0.0.1 eth0 mtu 1492, again OK..
> Invoking adsl-setup, I answered with a guessed username, no firewall,
> making sure eth0 was there, and have to stop here because my notes
> are confusing, except that, since I didn't really connect to the ISP;
> I tried another, same brand but different model modem; one that had
> been used before by another person 500 miles from here and was
> working.. The difference between the modems is that one is marked
> "bridge modem" and the other, in the kit, a "router modem." Don't
> know if that tells anything much in this case.. Neither one
> connected, not that I know what to expect from the ISP, which
> happens, in this case, to be the same as the Telco, viz, Verizon..
>
> 	Am I outliving my welcome?? I've got to keep better notes..
>
> 	Is the above enough for futher comments?? I guess what I
> basically need to know now is the relationship between rp-pppoe and
> ppp with the above lashup.. I can't try what I'm used to: 'pppsetup'
> that Slackware uses because you can't get by the first entry required
> of the telephone number for dialup.. Does installing rp-pppoe take
> care of installing the necessary ppp routines?? Or are both needed,
> separately??

I'd love to chat further but I am amazingly busy. However, with my Earthlink 
DSL connection the only thing required is to run adsl-setup then adsl-start. 
There is no configuring of ppp as that is all done by rp-pppoe.

One thing strikes me as odd about your setup though. Why did you ifconfig 
10.0.0.1 your NIC? The NIC used to connect to the ADSL modem doesn't need an 
IP. Giving one wont hurt, but it may add to your confusion.

The difference between a router modem and bridge modem can be huge. For a 
bridge, you will need rp-pppoe and you will get an IP from your ISP 
45.231.xxx.xxx etc. etc. 

For a router, your modem will receive an IP. After it connects you run 
dhclient or dhcpcd (dont use slackware) and you will get an address like 
192.168.0.100 with a gateway 192.168.0.1. In the latter setup you should NOT 
use rp-pppoe. A router moded will need you to "log-in" to the modem and set 
up your username password there whereas with a bridge its handled by 
rp-pppoe.

HTH!

> 	Appreciate!

-- 
----------------------------------------
--EB

> All is fine except that I can reliably "oops" it simply by trying to read
> from /proc/apm (e.g. cat /proc/apm).
> oops output and ksymoops-2.3.4 output is attached.
> Is there anything else I can contribute?

The latitude and longtitude of the bios writers current position, and
a ballistic missile.

                --Alan Cox LKML-December 08,2000 

----------------------------------------
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Re: pppoe * rp-pppoe * pppd?????

[chuck gelm]

Hal MacArgle wrote:

>On 11-28, chuck gelm wrote:
>  
>
>>Hal MacArgle wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Greetings: I'm lost in a bewilderment of HOWTO's, Docs, FAQ's, etc
>>>about PPPOE and ADSL Modems.. The more I read the worse it gets.
>>><grin>
>>>
>>>However, my one query for the list is:
>>>
>>>Using the Roaring Penguin PPPOE client, rp-pppoe; do I really need
>>>PPP support too?? Or does that client include PPP support.. No success
>>>yet I've got to eliminate some parameters..
>>>
>>>Both are legitimate packages in Slackware 10-l and I'll go ahead and
>>>try all the different ways but could use some possible comments..
>>>
>>>Cheers and TIA..
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>Hi, Hal:
>>
>>"...do I really need PPP support too??"
>>
>>Yes!!
>>
>>I use Slackware and I used Roaring Penguin for several years
>>until one year ago (when I switched from aDSL to cable).  I
>>started with Earthlink (which had excellent support) and later
>>switched to Ameritech/SBC/Yahoo (which had horrible support).
>>
>>It seems to me that you did not describe any problem and you
>>asked a very specific question.  I am unwilling to offer further
>>information until you describe your setup.
>>    
>>
>
>	OK, thanks, bear with this old man.. And, thanks Eric for
>your reaffirmation that ppp is needed along with pppoe.. But, does
>rp-pppoe "include" ppp /or/ do I need to setup ppp separately??
>  
>
Stop.

>Slackware has a script 'pppsetup' that, first off, asks for a
>telephone number, so that can't be used it seems...
>  
>
Do not 'setup ppp'.

>	Anyway; Chuck here's the, more or less, details.. ( My rings
>to Verizon's tech support, at least the one I got, knew nothing of
>what I was talking about).. The more I read the more I find that the
>ISP's are different as well as the modems, not to mention two
>different encodings; CAP or DMT, neither compatible.. Did your ISP
>use the same as ours; Verizon?? Who knows.. Verizon, a Baby Bell
>Telco uses PPPOE, rather than several other options; all designed to
>confuse even experts... (There was a listing on the Web pertaining to
>this and Verizon, but it's either gone or down now.) Maybe Verizon
>"locks" out anything but M$ access??
>  
>
Tell us what you know about this DSL service.
I assume it is with Verizon.  Is this your service or your neighbor's?

>	My neighbour bought the package, paying one year up front and
>received a 'kit' with the modem & cables plus a setup CD and several
>micro filters.. Apparently her username and password plus DNS stuff
>has to be via the software; it's not printed anywhere... I fired up
>her modem and the ready led blinked then stayed steady indicating the
>modem has received the DSLAM signal from the CO, one block away, and,
>IIRC, means the system is in "sync."
>
>	I fired up her Gateway XP Home version machine and ran the
>install CD that visually and verbally took me thru boo coo minutes of
>really basic stuff about hooking up the microfilters, etc, etc.. It,
>finally, got to the nitty gritty with the terse comment, "This may
>take some time." After a half hour of watching a twirling ziggy I
>turned the machine off.. Back to the drawing board...
>  
>
IIRC, the last item was to turn on the modem.  ???

>	Since all M$ stuff intimidates me I thought I'd ring it out
>with a Linux box, at her site, to see if, perhaps, her NIC card was
>at fault: Slackware 10.1 w/ both the ppp and rp-pppoe packages
>installed.. Modprobe ne io=0x300; NIC enabled and OK.. modprobe
>pppoe, again OK.. ifconfig 10.0.0.1 eth0 mtu 1492, again OK..
>  
>
In both of my DSL services (Earthlink & SBC-Yahoo) the
network interface was not assigned an IP address
(manually or automatically).  The IP address was assigned to
the 'ppp0' interface via 'pppd'. 
'rp-pppoe' setup the 'pppd' application.

>Invoking adsl-setup, I answered with a guessed username, no firewall,
>  
>
Too late. The interface already had an IP address, which it
should not have.

>making sure eth0 was there, and have to stop here because my notes
>are confusing, except that, since I didn't really connect to the ISP;
>I tried another, same brand but different model modem; one that had
>been used before by another person 500 miles from here and was
>working.. The difference between the modems is that one is marked
>"bridge modem" and the other, in the kit, a "router modem." Don't
>know if that tells anything much in this case.. Neither one
>connected, not that I know what to expect from the ISP, which
>happens, in this case, to be the same as the Telco, viz, Verizon..
>  
>
Use the modem from the service ISP.

>	Am I outliving my welcome?? I've got to keep better notes..
>
>	Is the above enough for futher comments?? I guess what I
>basically need to know now is the relationship between rp-pppoe and
>ppp with the above lashup.. I can't try what I'm used to: 'pppsetup'
>that Slackware uses because you can't get by the first entry required
>of the telephone number for dialup.. Does installing rp-pppoe take
>care of installing the necessary ppp routines?? Or are both needed,
>separately??
>
>  
>
rp-pppoe is for DSL service.
pppsetup is for dial-up service.
They are not interchangeable

"Does installing rp-pppoe take care of installing the necessary ppp routines??"

Uh, yeah, kind of...  Let us just say that 'rp-pppoe' takes care of the 
necessary things and let us no bother to define what those things are.

You need the 'ppp' package, but you do not need 'necessary ppp routines'.
You need the rp-pppoe package, and you need to configure the rp-pppoe
routine.

 Do not attempt to obtain an IP address for the NIC associated with the
DSL modem as it does not need an IP address.  The IP address is assigned
to the resultant 'ppp0' device.  It will, probably, be assigned by the
DSL ISP. 


>	Appreciate!
>  
>

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Re: pppoe * rp-pppoe * pppd?????

[Hal MacArgle]

	Annotations follow plus comments to Eric..


On 11-28, chuck gelm wrote:
> Hal MacArgle wrote:
> 
> >On 11-28, chuck gelm wrote:
> > 
> >
> >>Hal MacArgle wrote:
> >>
> >>   
> >>
> >>>Greetings: I'm lost in a bewilderment of HOWTO's, Docs, FAQ's, etc
> >>>about PPPOE and ADSL Modems.. The more I read the worse it gets.
> >>><grin>
> >>>
> >>>However, my one query for the list is:
> >>>
> >>>Using the Roaring Penguin PPPOE client, rp-pppoe; do I really need
> >>>PPP support too?? Or does that client include PPP support.. No success
> >>>yet I've got to eliminate some parameters..
> >>>
> >>>Both are legitimate packages in Slackware 10-l and I'll go ahead and
> >>>try all the different ways but could use some possible comments..
> >>>
> >>>Cheers and TIA..
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>     
> >>>
> >>Hi, Hal:
> >>
> >>"...do I really need PPP support too??"
> >>
> >>Yes!!
> >>
> >>I use Slackware and I used Roaring Penguin for several years
> >>until one year ago (when I switched from aDSL to cable).  I
> >>started with Earthlink (which had excellent support) and later
> >>switched to Ameritech/SBC/Yahoo (which had horrible support).
> >>
> >>It seems to me that you did not describe any problem and you
> >>asked a very specific question.  I am unwilling to offer further
> >>information until you describe your setup.
> >>   
> >>
> >
> >	OK, thanks, bear with this old man.. And, thanks Eric for
> >your reaffirmation that ppp is needed along with pppoe.. But, does
> >rp-pppoe "include" ppp /or/ do I need to setup ppp separately??
> > 
> >
> Stop.
> 
> >Slackware has a script 'pppsetup' that, first off, asks for a
> >telephone number, so that can't be used it seems...
> > 
> >
> Do not 'setup ppp'.

	Now I know that.. Good..



> 
> >	Anyway; Chuck here's the, more or less, details.. ( My rings
> >to Verizon's tech support, at least the one I got, knew nothing of
> >what I was talking about).. The more I read the more I find that the
> >ISP's are different as well as the modems, not to mention two
> >different encodings; CAP or DMT, neither compatible.. Did your ISP
> >use the same as ours; Verizon?? Who knows.. Verizon, a Baby Bell
> >Telco uses PPPOE, rather than several other options; all designed to
> >confuse even experts... (There was a listing on the Web pertaining to
> >this and Verizon, but it's either gone or down now.) Maybe Verizon
> >"locks" out anything but M$ access??
> > 
> >
> Tell us what you know about this DSL service.
> I assume it is with Verizon.  Is this your service or your neighbor's?

	Yes, Verizon and with a neighbour /or/ was, as they are now
quarreling, so I've shut down the project.. Computers are enough
rather than getting into other conflicts, eh??

	I found that Verizon has supplied bridge modems to some and
router modems to others... Never a dull moment and it looks like I
wont be able to proceed further, as of now..

	I had planned for the details for anyones interest but that's
all moot as I've had to shut down the project due to political
problems.. I'll retain the thread for the possible future..




> >	My neighbour bought the package, paying one year up front and
> >received a 'kit' with the modem & cables plus a setup CD and several
> >micro filters.. Apparently her username and password plus DNS stuff
> >has to be via the software; it's not printed anywhere... I fired up
> >her modem and the ready led blinked then stayed steady indicating the
> >modem has received the DSLAM signal from the CO, one block away, and,
> >IIRC, means the system is in "sync."
> >
> >	I fired up her Gateway XP Home version machine and ran the
> >install CD that visually and verbally took me thru boo coo minutes of
> >really basic stuff about hooking up the microfilters, etc, etc.. It,
> >finally, got to the nitty gritty with the terse comment, "This may
> >take some time." After a half hour of watching a twirling ziggy I
> >turned the machine off.. Back to the drawing board...
> > 
> >
> IIRC, the last item was to turn on the modem.  ???

	Oh, if only I could really try all this.. Maybe in the
future..




> >	Since all M$ stuff intimidates me I thought I'd ring it out
> >with a Linux box, at her site, to see if, perhaps, her NIC card was
> >at fault: Slackware 10.1 w/ both the ppp and rp-pppoe packages
> >installed.. Modprobe ne io=0x300; NIC enabled and OK.. modprobe
> >pppoe, again OK.. ifconfig 10.0.0.1 eth0 mtu 1492, again OK..
> > 
> >
> In both of my DSL services (Earthlink & SBC-Yahoo) the
> network interface was not assigned an IP address
> (manually or automatically).  The IP address was assigned to
> the 'ppp0' interface via 'pppd'. 
> 'rp-pppoe' setup the 'pppd' application.

	Eric says that rp-pppoe is not needed when the modem is a
router.. Again, I'll have to proceed later.. I'm presuming, in both
your cases, that the modem was a bridge type; not a router type..




> >Invoking adsl-setup, I answered with a guessed username, no firewall,
> > 
> >
> Too late. The interface already had an IP address, which it
> should not have.

	Some Verizon setups with a bridge modem is different.. I'll
know more of the peculiars; possibly later. <grin>




> >making sure eth0 was there, and have to stop here because my notes
> >are confusing, except that, since I didn't really connect to the ISP;
> >I tried another, same brand but different model modem; one that had
> >been used before by another person 500 miles from here and was
> >working.. The difference between the modems is that one is marked
> >"bridge modem" and the other, in the kit, a "router modem." Don't
> >know if that tells anything much in this case.. Neither one
> >connected, not that I know what to expect from the ISP, which
> >happens, in this case, to be the same as the Telco, viz, Verizon..
> > 
> >
> Use the modem from the service ISP.

	That's a very good idea but does Verizon support Unix/Linux;
anything other than M$?? We'll see.. Ringing their help desk was a
disaster several times; my marginal hearing plus accents I'm not used
to.. They tried very hard to help but we just didn't click.. The mere
press this, press that for half an hour before a live person doesn't
help... Welcome to progress, eh??




> >	Am I outliving my welcome?? I've got to keep better notes..
> >
> >	Is the above enough for futher comments?? I guess what I
> >basically need to know now is the relationship between rp-pppoe and
> >ppp with the above lashup.. I can't try what I'm used to: 'pppsetup'
> >that Slackware uses because you can't get by the first entry required
> >of the telephone number for dialup.. Does installing rp-pppoe take
> >care of installing the necessary ppp routines?? Or are both needed,
> >separately??
> >
> > 
> >
> rp-pppoe is for DSL service.
> pppsetup is for dial-up service.
> They are not interchangeable

	I can see that now..




> "Does installing rp-pppoe take care of installing the necessary ppp 
> routines??"

	Yes it does but Verizon didn't like it.. Again, Eric says
it's not needed with a router modem..




> Uh, yeah, kind of...  Let us just say that 'rp-pppoe' takes care of the 
> necessary things and let us no bother to define what those things are.
> 
> You need the 'ppp' package, but you do not need 'necessary ppp routines'.
> You need the rp-pppoe package, and you need to configure the rp-pppoe
> routine.
> 
> Do not attempt to obtain an IP address for the NIC associated with the
> DSL modem as it does not need an IP address.  The IP address is assigned
> to the resultant 'ppp0' device.  It will, probably, be assigned by the
> DSL ISP. 

	That's a shame because I have five IP addresses from Ham
Radio operations so could have a static address but I'm sure Verizon
wont co-operate along those lines.. Since it's not really my site,
it's all moot anyway... Verizon wants one to run WinXP period..

	Appreciate!!!

-- 

    Hal - in Terra Alta, WV/US - Slackware GNU/Linux 10.1   (2.4.29)
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but does Verizon support Unix/Linux; was Re: pppoe * rp-pppoe * pppd?????

[chuck gelm]

<snip>
	That's a very good idea but does Verizon support Unix/Linux;
anything other than M$?? We'll see.. Ringing their help desk was a
disaster several times; my marginal hearing plus accents I'm not used
to.. They tried very hard to help but we just didn't click.. The mere
press this, press that for half an hour before a live person doesn't
help... Welcome to progress, eh??

<snip>

it's all moot anyway... Verizon wants one to run WinXP period..
---------------------------------------------------------------
It does not matter what Verizon wants, it is what the equipment wants.
PPPOE?

Two parts:
(1) ?Verizon does not support Linux.
(2) Neither does the equipment nor the internet!

 The equipment supports a protocol, perhaps PPPOE.
Linux supports PPPOE.
The internet does not care how you obtain access, only
that your equipment is addressing the packets correctly;
TCP/UDP/IP...    ;-)

HTH, Chuck


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Re: but does Verizon support Unix/Linux; was Re: pppoe * rp-pppoe * pppd?????

[linuxdevelop linux]

I have got this to work on my laptop which was running FC3. I could
not find the link which I used to download the driver from. But it
works like a charm if you are in the city and a few interstates ..

Try this

http://www.ka9q.net/5220.html

If I find the other link I would append it later ..

All the best

./thanks
ilaiy

On 12/1/05, chuck gelm <chuck@gelm.net> wrote:
> <snip>
>         That's a very good idea but does Verizon support Unix/Linux;
> anything other than M$?? We'll see.. Ringing their help desk was a
> disaster several times; my marginal hearing plus accents I'm not used
> to.. They tried very hard to help but we just didn't click.. The mere
> press this, press that for half an hour before a live person doesn't
> help... Welcome to progress, eh??
>
> <snip>
>
> it's all moot anyway... Verizon wants one to run WinXP period..
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> It does not matter what Verizon wants, it is what the equipment wants.
> PPPOE?
>
> Two parts:
> (1) ?Verizon does not support Linux.
> (2) Neither does the equipment nor the internet!
>
>  The equipment supports a protocol, perhaps PPPOE.
> Linux supports PPPOE.
> The internet does not care how you obtain access, only
> that your equipment is addressing the packets correctly;
> TCP/UDP/IP...    ;-)
>
> HTH, Chuck
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-newbie" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
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Re: but does Verizon support Unix/Linux; was Re: pppoe * rp-pppoe * pppd?????

[Hal MacArgle]

On 12-01, chuck gelm wrote:
> <snip>
> 	That's a very good idea but does Verizon support Unix/Linux;
> anything other than M$?? We'll see.. Ringing their help desk was a
> disaster several times; my marginal hearing plus accents I'm not used
> to.. They tried very hard to help but we just didn't click.. The mere
> press this, press that for half an hour before a live person doesn't
> help... Welcome to progress, eh??
> 
> <snip>
> 
> it's all moot anyway... Verizon wants one to run WinXP period..
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> It does not matter what Verizon wants, it is what the equipment wants.
> PPPOE?

	They don't say so but most Web comments say that all the Baby
Bells use PPPOE... You may know that Verizon was Bell Atlantic and
GTE; merged..




> Two parts:
> (1) ?Verizon does not support Linux.
> (2) Neither does the equipment nor the internet!
> 
> The equipment supports a protocol, perhaps PPPOE.
> Linux supports PPPOE.
> The internet does not care how you obtain access, only
> that your equipment is addressing the packets correctly;
> TCP/UDP/IP...    ;-)

	Roger and, some day, I'll find the solution when I can get to
the site again.. My problem is that I read too much and get bogged
down in semantics.. Verizon used bridge modems at one time but the
new ones are router modems and the firmware could include a firewall
or any other shenigans they might come up with.. I don't understand
why a router is needed at the host site because you can only talk to
one server.. A lot I need to know and several years experience hasn't
made it easier.. <grin>

> HTH, Chuck

	I'll get back at you when I have some details but that may be
awhile as I just heard the neighbour has sacked her significant
other, so I want to stay away from the flack... <grin> I've learned a
lot from you and Eric but I'm on hold now...

-- 

    Hal - in Terra Alta, WV/US - Slackware GNU/Linux 10.1   (2.4.29)
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Re: pppoe * rp-pppoe * pppd?????

[Hal MacArgle]

	Comments annotated:

On 11-28, Eric Bambach wrote:
> On Monday 28 November 2005 10:11 am, Hal MacArgle wrote:
> > On 11-28, chuck gelm wrote:
> > > Hal MacArgle wrote:
> > > >Greetings: I'm lost in a bewilderment of HOWTO's, Docs, FAQ's, etc
> > > >about PPPOE and ADSL Modems.. The more I read the worse it gets.
> > > ><grin>
> > > >
> > > >However, my one query for the list is:
> > > >
> > > >Using the Roaring Penguin PPPOE client, rp-pppoe; do I really need
> > > >PPP support too?? Or does that client include PPP support.. No success
> > > >yet I've got to eliminate some parameters..
> > > >
> > > >Both are legitimate packages in Slackware 10-l and I'll go ahead and
> > > >try all the different ways but could use some possible comments..
> > > >
> > > >Cheers and TIA..
> > >
> > > Hi, Hal:
> > >
> > > "...do I really need PPP support too??"
> > >
> > > Yes!!
> > >
> > > I use Slackware and I used Roaring Penguin for several years
> > > until one year ago (when I switched from aDSL to cable).  I
> > > started with Earthlink (which had excellent support) and later
> > > switched to Ameritech/SBC/Yahoo (which had horrible support).
> > >
> > > It seems to me that you did not describe any problem and you
> > > asked a very specific question.  I am unwilling to offer further
> > > information until you describe your setup.
> >
> > 	OK, thanks, bear with this old man.. And, thanks Eric for
> > your reaffirmation that ppp is needed along with pppoe.. But, does
> > rp-pppoe "include" ppp /or/ do I need to setup ppp separately??
> > Slackware has a script 'pppsetup' that, first off, asks for a
> > telephone number, so that can't be used it seems...
> >
> > 	Anyway; Chuck here's the, more or less, details.. ( My rings
> > to Verizon's tech support, at least the one I got, knew nothing of
> > what I was talking about).. The more I read the more I find that the
> > ISP's are different as well as the modems, not to mention two
> > different encodings; CAP or DMT, neither compatible.. Did your ISP
> > use the same as ours; Verizon?? Who knows.. Verizon, a Baby Bell
> > Telco uses PPPOE, rather than several other options; all designed to
> > confuse even experts... (There was a listing on the Web pertaining to
> > this and Verizon, but it's either gone or down now.) Maybe Verizon
> > "locks" out anything but M$ access??
> >
> > 	My neighbour bought the package, paying one year up front and
> > received a 'kit' with the modem & cables plus a setup CD and several
> > micro filters.. Apparently her username and password plus DNS stuff
> > has to be via the software; it's not printed anywhere... I fired up
> > her modem and the ready led blinked then stayed steady indicating the
> > modem has received the DSLAM signal from the CO, one block away, and,
> > IIRC, means the system is in "sync."
> >
> > 	I fired up her Gateway XP Home version machine and ran the
> > install CD that visually and verbally took me thru boo coo minutes of
> > really basic stuff about hooking up the microfilters, etc, etc.. It,
> > finally, got to the nitty gritty with the terse comment, "This may
> > take some time." After a half hour of watching a twirling ziggy I
> > turned the machine off.. Back to the drawing board...
> >
> > 	Since all M$ stuff intimidates me I thought I'd ring it out
> > with a Linux box, at her site, to see if, perhaps, her NIC card was
> > at fault: Slackware 10.1 w/ both the ppp and rp-pppoe packages
> > installed.. Modprobe ne io=0x300; NIC enabled and OK.. modprobe
> > pppoe, again OK.. ifconfig 10.0.0.1 eth0 mtu 1492, again OK..
> > Invoking adsl-setup, I answered with a guessed username, no firewall,
> > making sure eth0 was there, and have to stop here because my notes
> > are confusing, except that, since I didn't really connect to the ISP;
> > I tried another, same brand but different model modem; one that had
> > been used before by another person 500 miles from here and was
> > working.. The difference between the modems is that one is marked
> > "bridge modem" and the other, in the kit, a "router modem." Don't
> > know if that tells anything much in this case.. Neither one
> > connected, not that I know what to expect from the ISP, which
> > happens, in this case, to be the same as the Telco, viz, Verizon..
> >
> > 	Am I outliving my welcome?? I've got to keep better notes..
> >
> > 	Is the above enough for futher comments?? I guess what I
> > basically need to know now is the relationship between rp-pppoe and
> > ppp with the above lashup.. I can't try what I'm used to: 'pppsetup'
> > that Slackware uses because you can't get by the first entry required
> > of the telephone number for dialup.. Does installing rp-pppoe take
> > care of installing the necessary ppp routines?? Or are both needed,
> > separately??
> 
> I'd love to chat further but I am amazingly busy. However, with my Earthlink 
> DSL connection the only thing required is to run adsl-setup then adsl-start. 
> There is no configuring of ppp as that is all done by rp-pppoe.

	I apologize for asking what should be basic questions and I
think it's been put to bed now..  Apparently Verizon is different
than many others.. Dial up is looking better all the time. <grin>




> One thing strikes me as odd about your setup though. Why did you ifconfig 
> 10.0.0.1 your NIC? The NIC used to connect to the ADSL modem doesn't need an 
> IP. Giving one wont hurt, but it may add to your confusion.

	I entered the IP address because I thought I had to in order
to get the mtu to 1492 or less than the default 1500... I read, maybe
I shouldn't read so much, that pppoe has an extra 8 bytes of overhead
so the MTU has to be modified accordingly.. The docs/faqs also said
that MTU's much lower than that may be needed.. I've experienced this
in Ham Radio before; I should have known better.. A mere 'ifconfig
eth0 up mtu 1492' does work..




> The difference between a router modem and bridge modem can be huge. For a 
> bridge, you will need rp-pppoe and you will get an IP from your ISP 
> 45.231.xxx.xxx etc. etc. 
> 
> For a router, your modem will receive an IP. After it connects you run 
> dhclient or dhcpcd (dont use slackware) and you will get an address like 
> 192.168.0.100 with a gateway 192.168.0.1. In the latter setup you should NOT 
> use rp-pppoe. A router moded will need you to "log-in" to the modem and set 
> up your username password there whereas with a bridge its handled by 
> rp-pppoe.
> 
> HTH!

	Immensely, so I now have a much better handle on whats' what
with yours and Chucks many good comments.. Unfortunately the whole
thing is moot now because the neighbour and her significant other are
quarreling so, "I'm out of there.." I'll retain all this thread for
the future though in case things quiet down... <grin>

-- 

    Hal - in Terra Alta, WV/US - Slackware GNU/Linux 10.1   (2.4.29)
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