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From: Steve Rago <sar@nec-labs.com>
To: Trond Myklebust <Trond.Myklebust@netapp.com>
Cc: Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>, Wu Fengguang <fengguang.wu@intel.com>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	"linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org" <linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"jens.axboe" <jens.axboe@oracle.com>,
	Peter Staubach <staubach@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] improve the performance of large sequential write NFS workloads
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 18:13:33 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1261610013.13028.151.camel@serenity> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1261604952.18047.7.camel@localhost>


On Wed, 2009-12-23 at 22:49 +0100, Trond Myklebust wrote:

> > When to send the commit is a complex question to answer.  If you delay
> > it long enough, the server's flusher threads will have already done most
> > of the work for you, so commits can be cheap, but you don't have access
> > to the necessary information to figure this out.  You can't delay it too
> > long, though, because the unstable pages on the client will grow too
> > large, creating memory pressure.  I have a second patch, which I haven't
> > posted yet, that adds feedback piggy-backed on the NFS write response,
> > which allows the NFS client to free pages proactively.  This greatly
> > reduces the need to send commit messages, but it extends the protocol
> > (in a backward-compatible manner), so it could be hard to convince
> > people to accept.
> 
> There are only 2 cases when the client should send a COMMIT: 
>      1. When it hits a synchronisation point (i.e. when the user calls
>         f/sync(), or close(), or when the user sets/clears a file
>         lock). 
>      2. When memory pressure causes the VM to wants to free up those
>         pages that are marked as clean but unstable.
> 
> We should never be sending COMMIT in any other situation, since that
> would imply that the client somehow has better information on how to
> manage dirty pages on the server than the server's own VM.
> 
> Cheers
>   Trond

#2 is the difficult one.  If you wait for memory pressure, you could
have waited too long, because depending on the latency of the commit,
you could run into low-memory situations.  Then mayhem ensues, the
oom-killer gets cranky (if you haven't disabled it), and stuff starts
failing and/or hanging.  So you need to be careful about setting the
threshold for generating a commit so that the client doesn't run out of
memory before the server can respond.

Steve



  reply	other threads:[~2009-12-23 23:13 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 96+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-12-17  2:03 [PATCH] improve the performance of large sequential write NFS workloads Steve Rago
2009-12-17  8:17 ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-12-18 19:33   ` Steve Rago
2009-12-18 19:41     ` Ingo Molnar
2009-12-18 21:20       ` Steve Rago
2009-12-18 22:07         ` Ingo Molnar
2009-12-18 22:46           ` Steve Rago
2009-12-19  8:08         ` Arjan van de Ven
2009-12-19 13:37           ` Steve Rago
2009-12-18 19:44     ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-12-19 12:20   ` Wu Fengguang
2009-12-19 14:25     ` Steve Rago
2009-12-22  1:59       ` Wu Fengguang
2009-12-22 12:35         ` Jan Kara
     [not found]           ` <20091222123538.GB604-jyMamyUUXNJG4ohzP4jBZS1Fcj925eT/@public.gmane.org>
2009-12-23  8:43             ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-12-23 13:32               ` Jan Kara
     [not found]                 ` <20091223133244.GB3159-+0h/O2h83AeN3ZZ/Hiejyg@public.gmane.org>
2009-12-24  5:25                   ` Wu Fengguang
2009-12-24  1:26           ` Wu Fengguang
2009-12-22 13:01         ` Martin Knoblauch
     [not found]           ` <787373.9318.qm-rpBZDh8Qtqs5A34FEqDeB/u2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
2009-12-24  1:46             ` Wu Fengguang
2009-12-22 16:41         ` Steve Rago
2009-12-24  1:21           ` Wu Fengguang
2009-12-24 14:49             ` Steve Rago
2009-12-25  7:37               ` Wu Fengguang
2009-12-23 14:21         ` Trond Myklebust
2009-12-23 18:05           ` Jan Kara
     [not found]             ` <20091223180551.GD3159-+0h/O2h83AeN3ZZ/Hiejyg@public.gmane.org>
2009-12-23 19:12               ` Trond Myklebust
2009-12-24  2:52                 ` Wu Fengguang
2009-12-24 12:04                   ` Trond Myklebust
2009-12-25  5:56                     ` Wu Fengguang
2009-12-30 16:22                       ` Trond Myklebust
2009-12-31  5:04                         ` Wu Fengguang
2009-12-31 19:13                           ` Trond Myklebust
2010-01-06  3:03                             ` Wu Fengguang
2010-01-06 16:56                               ` Trond Myklebust
2010-01-06 18:26                                 ` Trond Myklebust
2010-01-06 18:37                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-01-06 18:52                                     ` Trond Myklebust
2010-01-06 19:07                                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-01-06 19:21                                         ` Trond Myklebust
2010-01-06 19:53                                           ` Trond Myklebust
2010-01-06 20:09                                             ` Jan Kara
2010-01-06 20:51                                               ` [PATCH 0/6] " Trond Myklebust
     [not found]                                                 ` <20100106205110.22547.85345.stgit-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org>
2010-01-06 20:51                                                   ` [PATCH 1/6] VFS: Ensure that writeback_single_inode() commits unstable writes Trond Myklebust
     [not found]                                                     ` <20100106205110.22547.17971.stgit-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org>
2010-01-06 21:38                                                       ` Jan Kara
     [not found]                                                         ` <20100106213843.GD22781-+0h/O2h83AeN3ZZ/Hiejyg@public.gmane.org>
2010-01-06 21:48                                                           ` Trond Myklebust
2010-01-07  2:18                                                     ` Wu Fengguang
     [not found]                                                       ` <1262839082.2185.15.camel@localhost>
2010-01-07  4:48                                                         ` Wu Fengguang
2010-01-07  4:53                                                           ` [PATCH 0/5] Re: [PATCH] improve the performance of large sequential write NFS workloads Trond Myklebust
     [not found]                                                             ` <20100107045330.5986.55090.stgit-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org>
2010-01-07  4:53                                                               ` [PATCH 4/5] VM/NFS: The VM must tell the filesystem when to free reclaimable pages Trond Myklebust
2010-01-07  4:53                                                               ` [PATCH 1/5] VFS: Ensure that writeback_single_inode() commits unstable writes Trond Myklebust
2010-01-07  4:53                                                               ` [PATCH 2/5] VM: Split out the accounting of unstable writes from BDI_RECLAIMABLE Trond Myklebust
2010-01-07  4:53                                                               ` [PATCH 3/5] VM: Don't call bdi_stat(BDI_UNSTABLE) on non-nfs backing-devices Trond Myklebust
2010-01-07  4:53                                                               ` [PATCH 5/5] NFS: Run COMMIT as an asynchronous RPC call when wbc->for_background is set Trond Myklebust
2010-01-07 14:56                                                         ` [PATCH 1/6] VFS: Ensure that writeback_single_inode() commits unstable writes Wu Fengguang
2010-01-07 15:10                                                           ` Trond Myklebust
2010-01-08  1:17                                                             ` Wu Fengguang
2010-01-08  1:37                                                               ` Trond Myklebust
2010-01-08  1:53                                                                 ` Wu Fengguang
2010-01-08  9:25                                                             ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-01-08 13:46                                                               ` Trond Myklebust
2010-01-08 13:54                                                                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-01-08 14:15                                                                   ` Trond Myklebust
2010-01-06 20:51                                                   ` [PATCH 4/6] VM: Don't call bdi_stat(BDI_UNSTABLE) on non-nfs backing-devices Trond Myklebust
2010-01-07  1:56                                                     ` Wu Fengguang
2010-01-06 20:51                                                   ` [PATCH 6/6] NFS: Run COMMIT as an asynchronous RPC call when wbc->for_background is set Trond Myklebust
     [not found]                                                     ` <20100106205110.22547.31434.stgit-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org>
2010-01-07  2:32                                                       ` Wu Fengguang
2010-01-06 20:51                                                   ` [PATCH 5/6] VM: Use per-bdi unstable accounting to improve use of wbc->force_commit Trond Myklebust
     [not found]                                                     ` <20100106205110.22547.32584.stgit-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org>
2010-01-07  2:34                                                       ` Wu Fengguang
2010-01-06 20:51                                                   ` [PATCH 2/6] VM/NFS: The VM must tell the filesystem when to free reclaimable pages Trond Myklebust
2010-01-07  2:29                                                     ` Wu Fengguang
2010-01-07  4:49                                                       ` Trond Myklebust
2010-01-07  5:03                                                         ` Wu Fengguang
2010-01-07  5:30                                                           ` Trond Myklebust
2010-01-07 14:37                                                             ` Wu Fengguang
2010-01-07 14:41                                                               ` [PATCH 0/5] Re: [PATCH] improve the performance of large sequential write NFS workloads Trond Myklebust
     [not found]                                                                 ` <20100107144137.17158.53673.stgit-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org>
2010-01-07 14:41                                                                   ` [PATCH 3/5] VM: Don't call bdi_stat(BDI_UNSTABLE) on non-nfs backing-devices Trond Myklebust
2010-01-07 14:41                                                                   ` [PATCH 1/5] VFS: Ensure that writeback_single_inode() commits unstable writes Trond Myklebust
2010-01-07 14:41                                                                   ` [PATCH 5/5] NFS: Run COMMIT as an asynchronous RPC call when wbc->for_background is set Trond Myklebust
2010-01-07 14:41                                                                   ` [PATCH 2/5] VM: Split out the accounting of unstable writes from BDI_RECLAIMABLE Trond Myklebust
2010-01-07 14:41                                                                   ` [PATCH 4/5] VM/NFS: The VM must tell the filesystem when to free reclaimable pages Trond Myklebust
2010-01-06 20:51                                                   ` [PATCH 3/6] VM: Split out the accounting of unstable writes from BDI_RECLAIMABLE Trond Myklebust
     [not found]                                                     ` <20100106205110.22547.93554.stgit-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org>
2010-01-07  1:48                                                       ` Wu Fengguang
2010-01-06 21:44                                                   ` [PATCH 0/6] Re: [PATCH] improve the performance of large sequential write NFS workloads Jan Kara
2010-01-06 22:03                                                     ` Trond Myklebust
2010-01-07  8:16                                                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-12-22 12:25       ` Jan Kara
     [not found]         ` <20091222122557.GA604-jyMamyUUXNJG4ohzP4jBZS1Fcj925eT/@public.gmane.org>
2009-12-22 12:38           ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-12-22 12:55             ` Jan Kara
2009-12-22 16:20         ` Steve Rago
2009-12-23 18:39           ` Jan Kara
     [not found]             ` <20091223183912.GE3159-+0h/O2h83AeN3ZZ/Hiejyg@public.gmane.org>
2009-12-23 20:16               ` Steve Rago
2009-12-23 21:49                 ` Trond Myklebust
2009-12-23 23:13                   ` Steve Rago [this message]
2009-12-23 23:44                     ` Trond Myklebust
2009-12-24  4:30                       ` Steve Rago

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