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From: Steve Rago <sar@nec-labs.com>
To: Trond Myklebust <Trond.Myklebust@netapp.com>
Cc: Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>, Wu Fengguang <fengguang.wu@intel.com>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	"linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org" <linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"jens.axboe" <jens.axboe@oracle.com>,
	Peter Staubach <staubach@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] improve the performance of large sequential write NFS workloads
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 23:30:14 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1261629014.13028.160.camel@serenity> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1261611898.18047.37.camel@localhost>


On Thu, 2009-12-24 at 00:44 +0100, Trond Myklebust wrote:

> > #2 is the difficult one.  If you wait for memory pressure, you could
> > have waited too long, because depending on the latency of the commit,
> > you could run into low-memory situations.  Then mayhem ensues, the
> > oom-killer gets cranky (if you haven't disabled it), and stuff starts
> > failing and/or hanging.  So you need to be careful about setting the
> > threshold for generating a commit so that the client doesn't run out of
> > memory before the server can respond.
> 
> Right, but this is why we have limits on the total number of dirty pages
> that can be kept in memory. The NFS unstable writes don't significantly
> change that model, they just add an extra step: once all the dirty data
> has been transmitted to the server, your COMMIT defines a
> synchronisation point after which you know that the data you just sent
> is all on disk. Given a reasonable NFS server implementation, it will
> already have started the write out of that data, and so hopefully the
> COMMIT operation itself will run reasonably quickly.

Right.  The trick is to do this with the best performance possible.

> 
> Any userland application with basic data integrity requirements will
> have the same expectations. It will write out the data and then fsync()
> at regular intervals. I've never heard of any expectations from
> filesystem and VM designers that applications should be required to
> fine-tune the length of those intervals in order to achieve decent
> performance.

Agreed, except that the more you call fsync(), the more you are stalling
the writing, so application designers must use fsync() judiciously.
Otherwise they'd just use synchronous writes.  (Apologies if I sound
like Captain Obvious.)

Thanks,

Steve

> 
> Cheers
>   Trond
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-nfs" in
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      reply	other threads:[~2009-12-24  4:30 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 96+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-12-17  2:03 [PATCH] improve the performance of large sequential write NFS workloads Steve Rago
2009-12-17  8:17 ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-12-18 19:33   ` Steve Rago
2009-12-18 19:41     ` Ingo Molnar
2009-12-18 21:20       ` Steve Rago
2009-12-18 22:07         ` Ingo Molnar
2009-12-18 22:46           ` Steve Rago
2009-12-19  8:08         ` Arjan van de Ven
2009-12-19 13:37           ` Steve Rago
2009-12-18 19:44     ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-12-19 12:20   ` Wu Fengguang
2009-12-19 14:25     ` Steve Rago
2009-12-22  1:59       ` Wu Fengguang
2009-12-22 12:35         ` Jan Kara
     [not found]           ` <20091222123538.GB604-jyMamyUUXNJG4ohzP4jBZS1Fcj925eT/@public.gmane.org>
2009-12-23  8:43             ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-12-23 13:32               ` Jan Kara
     [not found]                 ` <20091223133244.GB3159-+0h/O2h83AeN3ZZ/Hiejyg@public.gmane.org>
2009-12-24  5:25                   ` Wu Fengguang
2009-12-24  1:26           ` Wu Fengguang
2009-12-22 13:01         ` Martin Knoblauch
     [not found]           ` <787373.9318.qm-rpBZDh8Qtqs5A34FEqDeB/u2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
2009-12-24  1:46             ` Wu Fengguang
2009-12-22 16:41         ` Steve Rago
2009-12-24  1:21           ` Wu Fengguang
2009-12-24 14:49             ` Steve Rago
2009-12-25  7:37               ` Wu Fengguang
2009-12-23 14:21         ` Trond Myklebust
2009-12-23 18:05           ` Jan Kara
     [not found]             ` <20091223180551.GD3159-+0h/O2h83AeN3ZZ/Hiejyg@public.gmane.org>
2009-12-23 19:12               ` Trond Myklebust
2009-12-24  2:52                 ` Wu Fengguang
2009-12-24 12:04                   ` Trond Myklebust
2009-12-25  5:56                     ` Wu Fengguang
2009-12-30 16:22                       ` Trond Myklebust
2009-12-31  5:04                         ` Wu Fengguang
2009-12-31 19:13                           ` Trond Myklebust
2010-01-06  3:03                             ` Wu Fengguang
2010-01-06 16:56                               ` Trond Myklebust
2010-01-06 18:26                                 ` Trond Myklebust
2010-01-06 18:37                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-01-06 18:52                                     ` Trond Myklebust
2010-01-06 19:07                                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-01-06 19:21                                         ` Trond Myklebust
2010-01-06 19:53                                           ` Trond Myklebust
2010-01-06 20:09                                             ` Jan Kara
2010-01-06 20:51                                               ` [PATCH 0/6] " Trond Myklebust
     [not found]                                                 ` <20100106205110.22547.85345.stgit-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org>
2010-01-06 20:51                                                   ` [PATCH 1/6] VFS: Ensure that writeback_single_inode() commits unstable writes Trond Myklebust
     [not found]                                                     ` <20100106205110.22547.17971.stgit-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org>
2010-01-06 21:38                                                       ` Jan Kara
     [not found]                                                         ` <20100106213843.GD22781-+0h/O2h83AeN3ZZ/Hiejyg@public.gmane.org>
2010-01-06 21:48                                                           ` Trond Myklebust
2010-01-07  2:18                                                     ` Wu Fengguang
     [not found]                                                       ` <1262839082.2185.15.camel@localhost>
2010-01-07  4:48                                                         ` Wu Fengguang
2010-01-07  4:53                                                           ` [PATCH 0/5] Re: [PATCH] improve the performance of large sequential write NFS workloads Trond Myklebust
     [not found]                                                             ` <20100107045330.5986.55090.stgit-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org>
2010-01-07  4:53                                                               ` [PATCH 4/5] VM/NFS: The VM must tell the filesystem when to free reclaimable pages Trond Myklebust
2010-01-07  4:53                                                               ` [PATCH 1/5] VFS: Ensure that writeback_single_inode() commits unstable writes Trond Myklebust
2010-01-07  4:53                                                               ` [PATCH 2/5] VM: Split out the accounting of unstable writes from BDI_RECLAIMABLE Trond Myklebust
2010-01-07  4:53                                                               ` [PATCH 3/5] VM: Don't call bdi_stat(BDI_UNSTABLE) on non-nfs backing-devices Trond Myklebust
2010-01-07  4:53                                                               ` [PATCH 5/5] NFS: Run COMMIT as an asynchronous RPC call when wbc->for_background is set Trond Myklebust
2010-01-07 14:56                                                         ` [PATCH 1/6] VFS: Ensure that writeback_single_inode() commits unstable writes Wu Fengguang
2010-01-07 15:10                                                           ` Trond Myklebust
2010-01-08  1:17                                                             ` Wu Fengguang
2010-01-08  1:37                                                               ` Trond Myklebust
2010-01-08  1:53                                                                 ` Wu Fengguang
2010-01-08  9:25                                                             ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-01-08 13:46                                                               ` Trond Myklebust
2010-01-08 13:54                                                                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-01-08 14:15                                                                   ` Trond Myklebust
2010-01-06 20:51                                                   ` [PATCH 4/6] VM: Don't call bdi_stat(BDI_UNSTABLE) on non-nfs backing-devices Trond Myklebust
2010-01-07  1:56                                                     ` Wu Fengguang
2010-01-06 20:51                                                   ` [PATCH 5/6] VM: Use per-bdi unstable accounting to improve use of wbc->force_commit Trond Myklebust
     [not found]                                                     ` <20100106205110.22547.32584.stgit-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org>
2010-01-07  2:34                                                       ` Wu Fengguang
2010-01-06 20:51                                                   ` [PATCH 6/6] NFS: Run COMMIT as an asynchronous RPC call when wbc->for_background is set Trond Myklebust
     [not found]                                                     ` <20100106205110.22547.31434.stgit-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org>
2010-01-07  2:32                                                       ` Wu Fengguang
2010-01-06 20:51                                                   ` [PATCH 2/6] VM/NFS: The VM must tell the filesystem when to free reclaimable pages Trond Myklebust
2010-01-07  2:29                                                     ` Wu Fengguang
2010-01-07  4:49                                                       ` Trond Myklebust
2010-01-07  5:03                                                         ` Wu Fengguang
2010-01-07  5:30                                                           ` Trond Myklebust
2010-01-07 14:37                                                             ` Wu Fengguang
2010-01-07 14:41                                                               ` [PATCH 0/5] Re: [PATCH] improve the performance of large sequential write NFS workloads Trond Myklebust
     [not found]                                                                 ` <20100107144137.17158.53673.stgit-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org>
2010-01-07 14:41                                                                   ` [PATCH 4/5] VM/NFS: The VM must tell the filesystem when to free reclaimable pages Trond Myklebust
2010-01-07 14:41                                                                   ` [PATCH 2/5] VM: Split out the accounting of unstable writes from BDI_RECLAIMABLE Trond Myklebust
2010-01-07 14:41                                                                   ` [PATCH 5/5] NFS: Run COMMIT as an asynchronous RPC call when wbc->for_background is set Trond Myklebust
2010-01-07 14:41                                                                   ` [PATCH 1/5] VFS: Ensure that writeback_single_inode() commits unstable writes Trond Myklebust
2010-01-07 14:41                                                                   ` [PATCH 3/5] VM: Don't call bdi_stat(BDI_UNSTABLE) on non-nfs backing-devices Trond Myklebust
2010-01-06 20:51                                                   ` [PATCH 3/6] VM: Split out the accounting of unstable writes from BDI_RECLAIMABLE Trond Myklebust
     [not found]                                                     ` <20100106205110.22547.93554.stgit-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org>
2010-01-07  1:48                                                       ` Wu Fengguang
2010-01-06 21:44                                                   ` [PATCH 0/6] Re: [PATCH] improve the performance of large sequential write NFS workloads Jan Kara
2010-01-06 22:03                                                     ` Trond Myklebust
2010-01-07  8:16                                                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-12-22 12:25       ` Jan Kara
     [not found]         ` <20091222122557.GA604-jyMamyUUXNJG4ohzP4jBZS1Fcj925eT/@public.gmane.org>
2009-12-22 12:38           ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-12-22 12:55             ` Jan Kara
2009-12-22 16:20         ` Steve Rago
2009-12-23 18:39           ` Jan Kara
     [not found]             ` <20091223183912.GE3159-+0h/O2h83AeN3ZZ/Hiejyg@public.gmane.org>
2009-12-23 20:16               ` Steve Rago
2009-12-23 21:49                 ` Trond Myklebust
2009-12-23 23:13                   ` Steve Rago
2009-12-23 23:44                     ` Trond Myklebust
2009-12-24  4:30                       ` Steve Rago [this message]

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