[parisc-linux] Terminfo/termcap for a 70096 ...

[parisc-linux] Terminfo/termcap for a 70096 ...

[Nahkola Mikko]

I tried to ask this question in the comp.sys.hp.hpux newsgroup once but 
didn't get any useful answers... anyone here know better?

(yes, I know, this is probably specifically _not_ a problem on 
parisc-linux as all the parisc stuff is supposed to have a HP-UX license 
in the first place, for some version of HP-UX.)

Is it legal to copy terminfo and termcap entries (from HP-UX in this 
case)?

The problem is that HP-UX is pretty much the only thing that comes with a 
terminfo entry for a 70096, and we have a bunch of those that could be 
useful on other systems too ... except that the scrollback doesn't work 
in the emulation modes. 

It would therefore be better to be able to run in native mode, but this 
pretty much _requires_ the terminfo/termcap entry ... 

Oh, and about the cursor keys on the 70096, if I were to put them in the 
"application" mode, would that help with bash et al.? They seem to be 
working in swinstall and such on HP-UX ... but the default mode seems to 
be non-transmitting, right? (yes, I could use that too myself, and 
re-enter stuff from the buffer with the print/enter key and do the 
line-modify thing... but the others have a hard time learning that.)


-- 
Mikko Nahkola   <mikko.nahkola@nokia.com>
Tre-IN sysadmin <mnahkola@trein.ntc.nokia.com>

RE: [parisc-linux] Terminfo/termcap for a 70096 ...

["Beerse, Corné"]

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nahkola Mikko [mailto:mnahkola@trinms01.ntc.nokia.com]
> 
> I tried to ask this question in the comp.sys.hp.hpux newsgroup once but 
> didn't get any useful answers... anyone here know better?

The /etc/termcap file on a RedHat 7.3 machine does contain a bunch of HP
terminals, including 700 series like 700 44 and 700 92. I think the latter
one will suit your needs. There are even more. As far as I know, it all ends
in hpterm, the hp-terminal emulator (xterm equivalent) for X11 (vue) with
similar capabilities as the 700 series terminals.

Unfortunatly, while installing DebianWoody on a D370, I found none of them
in the terminfo database (and no termcap file). And the HP700/96 came with
the D370. I know one thing to do after finalizing the install....

> 
> (yes, I know, this is probably specifically _not_ a problem on 
> parisc-linux as all the parisc stuff is supposed to have a HP-UX license 
> in the first place, for some version of HP-UX.)
> 
> Is it legal to copy terminfo and termcap entries (from HP-UX in this 
> case)?

I don't think it is illegal to tune any system to use HP hardware with a
published interface and I think the manual of the terminal clearly publishes
the codes as used in the termcap or terminfo files.

> 
> The problem is that HP-UX is pretty much the only thing that comes with a 
> terminfo entry for a 70096, and we have a bunch of those that  could be 
> useful on other systems too ... except that the scrollback doesn't work 
> in the emulation modes. 

Some settings of $TERM that come to mind include 'hpterm', 'hp700',
'hp70092'. I recal I've used them between HP-UX and Solaris machines, hence
Solaris also might have suitable termcap or terminfo entries.

> 
> It would therefore be better to be able to run in native mode, but this 
> pretty much _requires_ the terminfo/termcap entry ... 
> 
> Oh, and about the cursor keys on the 70096, if I were to put 
> them in the 
> "application" mode, would that help with bash et al.? They seem to be 
> working in swinstall and such on HP-UX ... but the default 
> mode seems to 
> be non-transmitting, right? (yes, I could use that too myself, and 
> re-enter stuff from the buffer with the print/enter key and do the 
> line-modify thing... but the others have a hard time learning that.)

don't know, just put the terminal in em220 (vt220 emulation) mode to install
debian.





CBee

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Re: [parisc-linux] Terminfo/termcap for a 70096 ...

[Matthew Wilcox]

On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 03:04:24PM +0200, "Beerse, Corné" wrote:
> Unfortunatly, while installing DebianWoody on a D370, I found none of them
> in the terminfo database (and no termcap file). And the HP700/96 came with
> the D370. I know one thing to do after finalizing the install....

Yeah, Debian doesn't have termcap, there's a document somewhere that
explains why.

-- 
"It's not Hollywood.  War is real, war is primarily not about defeat or
victory, it is about death.  I've seen thousands and thousands of dead bodies.
Do you think I want to have an academic debate on this subject?" -- Robert Fisk

RE: [parisc-linux] Terminfo/termcap for a 70096 ...

["Beerse, Corné"]

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthew Wilcox [mailto:willy@debian.org]
> Sent: dinsdag 5 augustus 2003 15:33
> 
> On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 03:04:24PM +0200, "Beerse, Corné" wrote:
> > Unfortunatly, while installing DebianWoody on a D370, I found none of
them
> > in the terminfo database (and no termcap file). And the HP700/96 came
with
> > the D370. I know one thing to do after finalizing the install....
> 
> Yeah, Debian doesn't have termcap, there's a document somewhere that
> explains why.

I don't care if they use termcap or terminfo. It bothers me that they have
no HP700xx entry in there, not even in the pa-risc distribution. Specially
the pa-risc distro can find a 700xx terminal at its console so it would be
nice if the TERM boot parameter can be set to indicate a hp700 terminal.

On the other hand, I'm one of those sysadmins that can find its way around
and I expect most installations to PA-Risc will be a kind of freak or hacker
that can find a way. It is just a little uncomfortable.


CBee

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Re: [parisc-linux] Terminfo/termcap for a 70096 ...

[Nahkola Mikko]

On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 03:04:24PM +0200, ext "Beerse, Corné" wrote:

> > From: Nahkola Mikko [mailto:mnahkola@trinms01.ntc.nokia.com]

> > I tried to ask this question in the comp.sys.hp.hpux newsgroup once but 
> > didn't get any useful answers... anyone here know better?
 
> The /etc/termcap file on a RedHat 7.3 machine does contain a bunch of HP
> terminals, including 700 series like 700 44 and 700 92. I think the latter
> one will suit your needs. There are even more. As far as I know, it all ends
> in hpterm, the hp-terminal emulator (xterm equivalent) for X11 (vue) with
> similar capabilities as the 700 series terminals.

Um. I don't have a RedHat here ... well, there's a close-enough copy that 
I could check.

Yes, the 70092 is probably close enough. Haven't run into any differences 
around here and we have a couple of those too.
 
> Unfortunatly, while installing DebianWoody on a D370, I found none of them
> in the terminfo database (and no termcap file). And the HP700/96 came with
> the D370. I know one thing to do after finalizing the install....

That'd be good to have, yes, and even better if the installer knew how to 
use it too. And I _did_ install the terminfo entry myself ... 

> > (yes, I know, this is probably specifically _not_ a problem on 
> > parisc-linux as all the parisc stuff is supposed to have a HP-UX license 
> > in the first place, for some version of HP-UX.)
> > 
> > Is it legal to copy terminfo and termcap entries (from HP-UX in this 
> > case)?
> 
> I don't think it is illegal to tune any system to use HP hardware with a
> published interface and I think the manual of the terminal clearly publishes
> the codes as used in the termcap or terminfo files.

The "User's Manual" (part no. 5959-5071) only seems to publish some of 
them, not all. It certainly doesn't say what the thing _transmits_ 
as control characters, and such ...

I haven't seen the "Reference Manual" anywhere. (5959-5072) That'd be the 
one to find, probably.

The c1099a User's Manual isn't any more help either.

> > The problem is that HP-UX is pretty much the only thing that comes with a 
> > terminfo entry for a 70096, and we have a bunch of those that  could be 
> > useful on other systems too ... except that the scrollback doesn't work 
> > in the emulation modes. 

> Some settings of $TERM that come to mind include 'hpterm', 'hp700',
> 'hp70092'. I recal I've used them between HP-UX and Solaris machines, hence
> Solaris also might have suitable termcap or terminfo entries.

I don't think I've managed to find them.

At least it doesn't get right by default on the things that I've tried. 
Not sure which ones I've tried them on, Sun, DEC/Compaq, IBM, whatever 
... at least everything seems to default to VT100 if they can't figure 
out what it is. Even HP-UX, occasionally.

> > Oh, and about the cursor keys on the 70096, if I were to put 
> > them in the 
> > "application" mode, would that help with bash et al.? They seem to be 
> > working in swinstall and such on HP-UX ... but the default 
> > mode seems to 
> > be non-transmitting, right? (yes, I could use that too myself, and 

> don't know, just put the terminal in em220 (vt220 emulation) mode to install
> debian.

I did. 

But it might be better if the Debian installer could be made to handle 
the native mode too.


-- 
Mikko Nahkola   <mikko.nahkola@nokia.com>
Tre-IN sysadmin <mnahkola@trein.ntc.nokia.com>

Re: [parisc-linux] Terminfo/termcap for a 70096 ...

[John David Anglin]

> > On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 03:04:24PM +0200, "Beerse, Corn=E9" wrote:
> > > Unfortunatly, while installing DebianWoody on a D370, I found none =
> of
> them
> > > in the terminfo database (and no termcap file). And the HP700/96 =
> came
> with
> > > the D370. I know one thing to do after finalizing the install....
> >=20
> > Yeah, Debian doesn't have termcap, there's a document somewhere that
> > explains why.
> 
> I don't care if they use termcap or terminfo. It bothers me that they =
> have
> no HP700xx entry in there, not even in the pa-risc distribution. =
> Specially
> the pa-risc distro can find a 700xx terminal at its console so it would =
> be
> nice if the TERM boot parameter can be set to indicate a hp700 =
> terminal.

GNU ncurses 2.2 has an entry for a HP 700/44 which is probably usable.

Dave
-- 
J. David Anglin                                  dave.anglin@nrc-cnrc.gc.ca
National Research Council of Canada              (613) 990-0752 (FAX: 952-6602)