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From: tarunsahu@google.com
To: David Matlack <dmatlack@google.com>,
	Pasha Tatashin <pasha.tatashin@soleen.com>
Cc: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	joro@8bytes.org,  Mike Rapoport <rppt@kernel.org>,
	Pratyush Yadav <pratyush@kernel.org>,
	maz@kernel.org, arnd@arndb.de,  jgg@nvidia.com,
	robin.murphy@arm.com, loganodell@google.com,  oupton@kernel.org,
	kevin.tian@intel.com, alex@shazbot.org,  dwmw2@infradead.org,
	pbonzini@redhat.com, seanjc@google.com, will@kernel.org,
	 Alexander Graf <graf@amazon.com>,
	Bjorn Helgaas <bhelgaas@google.com>,
	baolu.lu@linux.intel.com,  linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org,
	linux-arch@vger.kernel.org,  sagis@google.com,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, kvmarm@lists.linux.dev,
	 iommu@lists.linux.dev, linux-pci@vger.kernel.org,
	kexec@lists.infradead.org,  skhawaja@google.com,
	kvm@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v2 3/4] liveupdate: Replace compatibility string with a 2-bit pair feature header
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2026 21:57:12 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <9huztsm6958n.fsf@tarunix.c.googlers.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CALzav=dYKAP7pKfoPtz32X1cT_tH4LN0X47_jTO8_HOCT4Pi=w@mail.gmail.com>

David Matlack <dmatlack@google.com> writes:

> On Tue, Oct 27, 2026 at 9:40 AM Pasha Tatashin
> <pasha.tatashin@soleen.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 10-26 21:14, David Matlack wrote:
>> > On 2026-10-26 11:50 AM, tarunsahu@google.com wrote:
>> > > Right, Required bit should be source kernel payload property to tell
>> > > target kernel that the payload must be handled to correctly deserialize
>> > > the data. It should be source kernel (userspace) responsiblity to make
>> > > sure it understand the target kernel before doing liveupdate.
>> > >
>> > > Saying this, During deserialization, target kernel's required bit is not
>> > > necessary. So I propose the following truth table.
>> > >
>> > > Source hdr  Target supported[i]  Action
>> > > ----------  -------------------  ----------------------------------
>> > > 00          0 or 1               Accept: feature absent in payload
>> > > 01          0                    Accept: ignore the feature data
>> > > 01          1                    Accept: use the feature data
>> > > 11          0                    Reject: -EOPNOTSUPP
>> > > 11          1                    Accept: use the feature data
>> > > 10          0 or 1               Reject: -EINVAL (invalid encoding)
>> >
>> > Yes, this matches what I had in mind for the semantics.
>> >
>> > To be explicit: the source kernel should set the bits for each Live
>> > Update based on what is actually preserved, rather than generating the
>> > header from a static per-kernel array. E.g. memfd would only mark a
>> > feature present for memfds that actually use it. That's what allows
>> > rollback to an older kernel as long as nothing being preserved depends
>> > on the new feature.
>> >
>> > But looking at this again, I think the required bit is redundant. Whether
>> > a feature can be safely ignored is a property of the feature itself, not
>> > of any particular file. Every file that has a feature present will have
>> > the same required bit for it. The only thing that actually varies per
>> > file is whether the feature is present.
>> >
>> > The required bit still has to be conveyed to the target somehow, since
>> > the kernel that needs it is the one that doesn't know about the feature.
>> > But it can be conveyed by the feature's number rather than an extra bit:
>> > split the flag space into required features and optional features, and
>> > assign each feature to one of them when it is defined. This is similar
>> > to the required_flags and optional_flags approach in struct pci_ser [1].
>> >
>> > Keeping the same header shape as discussed with Pasha:
>> >
>> > struct kho_ser_hdr {
>> >     __u32 size;           /* Size of header + payload in bytes */
>> >     __u16 nr_required;    /* Number of required feature bits */
>> >     __u16 nr_optional;    /* Number of optional feature bits */
>> >     __u64 flags[];        /* Required bits, followed by optional bits */
>> > };
>> >
>> > Required feature N is bit N of flags[], and optional feature N is bit
>> > nr_required + N (using nr_required from the incoming header). The length
>> > of flags[] is DIV_ROUND_UP(nr_required + nr_optional, 64). Both spaces
>> > are numbered contiguously, so there are no gaps, and up to 64 features
>> > still fit in a 16-byte header.
>> >
>> > Each bit just means the feature is present, so the truth table becomes:
>> >
>> > Source bit       Target supports  Action
>> > ---------------  ---------------  ------------------------------
>> > Not set          -                Accept: feature absent
>> > Optional set     No               Accept: ignore the feature data
>> > Optional set     Yes              Accept: use the feature data
>> > Required set     No               Reject: -EOPNOTSUPP
>> > Required set     Yes              Accept: use the feature data
>> >
>>
>> I like this proposal. I bet most features are going to be either
>> optional or required, and even if we ever have a magical
>> sometimes-optional feature, it can have its own required flag. So, no
>> need to pay double the cost on every flag.
>>
>> Just need to make sure that optional features always start from 0, in
>> their own enum, so the offset can be computed correctly in the incoming
>> kernel.
>
> Right. Instead of having a single 32-bit feature space where every
> feature can either be optional or required, we have 2 16-bit feature
> spaces, one for required features and one for optional features. Both
> feature spaces span from 0 to 2^16-1, and then are packed into
> flags[].


Okay sounds good. I will send the next version soon. Also I belive the
design is decided, So I will drop the RFC tag also.

~Tarun

  reply	other threads:[~2026-10-27 21:57 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 60+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2026-10-21 15:25 [RFC PATCH v2 0/4] liveupdate: Feature header ABI and named handler Tarun Sahu
2026-10-21 15:25 ` [RFC PATCH v2 1/4] liveupdate: Rename handler compatible to name Tarun Sahu
2026-10-21 17:11   ` Pasha Tatashin
2026-10-21 18:16     ` tarunsahu
2026-10-21 19:11       ` Pasha Tatashin
2026-10-21 19:35         ` tarunsahu
2026-10-23  7:44           ` Mike Rapoport
2026-10-23 21:51             ` tarunsahu
2026-10-22 15:26   ` sashiko-bot
2026-10-21 15:25 ` [RFC PATCH v2 2/4] liveupdate: Select file handler by name in the preserve ioctl Tarun Sahu
2026-10-21 17:17   ` Pasha Tatashin
2026-10-21 23:02     ` David Matlack
2026-10-22  1:14       ` Pasha Tatashin
2026-10-22 17:57         ` David Matlack
2026-10-22 12:50     ` tarunsahu
2026-10-22 13:42       ` Pasha Tatashin
2026-10-22 15:26   ` sashiko-bot
2026-10-21 15:25 ` [RFC PATCH v2 3/4] liveupdate: Replace compatibility string with a 2-bit pair feature header Tarun Sahu
2026-10-21 17:27   ` Pasha Tatashin
2026-10-21 17:40     ` Jason Gunthorpe
2026-10-21 17:55       ` Pasha Tatashin
2026-10-21 18:40     ` tarunsahu
2026-10-21 18:46       ` David Matlack
2026-10-21 18:50         ` Pasha Tatashin
2026-10-21 23:28           ` David Matlack
2026-10-22  1:26             ` Pasha Tatashin
2026-10-22  2:57               ` David Matlack
2026-10-22  3:32                 ` Pasha Tatashin
2026-10-22  3:52                   ` David Matlack
2026-10-22  4:11                     ` Pasha Tatashin
2026-10-22 17:51                       ` David Matlack
2026-10-22 20:53                         ` Pasha Tatashin
2026-10-23 13:50                           ` David Matlack
2026-10-25 20:38                             ` Pasha Tatashin
2026-10-26 20:49                               ` David Matlack
2026-10-27 16:21                                 ` Pasha Tatashin
2026-10-27 17:33                                   ` David Matlack
2026-10-28 17:17                                 ` Pratyush Yadav
2026-10-28 17:24                                   ` David Matlack
2026-10-28 17:47                                     ` Pasha Tatashin
2026-10-28 17:44                                   ` Pasha Tatashin
2026-10-21 23:55   ` David Matlack
2026-10-22  0:04     ` David Matlack
2026-10-26 11:50       ` tarunsahu
2026-10-26 21:14         ` David Matlack
2026-10-26 23:28           ` tarunsahu
2026-10-27  0:01             ` David Matlack
2026-10-27  0:55               ` Tarun Sahu
2026-10-27  3:26                 ` David Matlack
2026-10-27 16:40           ` Pasha Tatashin
2026-10-27 17:37             ` David Matlack
2026-10-27 21:57               ` tarunsahu [this message]
2026-10-22 15:26   ` sashiko-bot
2026-10-21 15:25 ` [RFC PATCH v2 4/4] mm: memfd_luo: Add the " Tarun Sahu
2026-10-21 17:38   ` Pasha Tatashin
2026-10-21 23:18     ` David Matlack
2026-10-22  0:41       ` Pasha Tatashin
2026-10-22  2:51         ` David Matlack
2026-10-22  3:50           ` Pasha Tatashin
2026-10-22 15:26   ` sashiko-bot

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