Re: [RFC PATCH] fs: obtain the inode generation number from vfs directly

[Hongbo Li <lihongbo22@huawei.com>]

On 2024/8/28 1:11, Darrick J. Wong wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 11:22:17AM +0200, Christian Brauner wrote:
>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 10:37:12PM GMT, Darrick J. Wong wrote:
>>> On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 10:32:38AM +0800, Hongbo Li wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2024/8/27 10:13, Darrick J. Wong wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 01:41:08AM +0000, Hongbo Li wrote:
>>>>>> Many mainstream file systems already support the GETVERSION ioctl,
>>>>>> and their implementations are completely the same, essentially
>>>>>> just obtain the value of i_generation. We think this ioctl can be
>>>>>> implemented at the VFS layer, so the file systems do not need to
>>>>>> implement it individually.
>>>>>
>>>>> What if a filesystem never touches i_generation?  Is it ok to advertise
>>>>> a generation number of zero when that's really meaningless?  Or should
>>>>> we gate the generic ioctl on (say) whether or not the fs implements file
>>>>> handles and/or supports nfs?
>>>>
>>>> This ioctl mainly returns the i_generation, and whether it has meaning is up
>>>> to the specific file system. Some tools will invoke IOC_GETVERSION, such as
>>>> `lsattr -v`(but if it's lattr, it won't), but users may not necessarily
>>>> actually use this value.
>>>
>>> That's not how that works.  If the kernel starts exporting a datum,
>>> people will start using it, and then the expectation that it will
>>> *continue* to work becomes ingrained in the userspace ABI forever.
>>> Be careful about establishing new behaviors for vfat.
>>
>> Is the meaning even the same across all filesystems? And what is the
>> meaning of this anyway? Is this described/defined for userspace
>> anywhere?
> 
> AFAICT there's no manpage so I guess we could return getrandom32() if we
> wanted to. ;)
> 
> But in seriousness, the usual four filesystems return i_generation.
> That is changed every time an inumber gets reused so that anyone with an
> old file handle cannot accidentally open the wrong file.  In theory one
> could use GETVERSION to construct file handles (if you do, UHLHAND!)
> instead of using name_to_handle_at, which is why it's dangerous to
> implement GETVERSION for everyone without checking if i_generation makes
> sense.

I'm not sure if my understanding of you is correct. As my humble 
opinions, the ioctl is for returning information to the user, and it 
cannot rely on this information returned to the user to ensure the 
security. If the file system wants to be secure internally, it should 
decouple from the VFS layer interface, rather than just not implementing it.
For NFS, constructing a file handle is easy, you can successfully 
construct a file handle by capturing the nfs protocol packet even 
thought the i_generation is not exposed.

Thanks,
Hongbo
> 
> --D