Selecting multiple radio access technologies in oFono

Selecting multiple radio access technologies in oFono

[Paavo Leinonen]

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Hi all,

Could it be possible to extend current TechnologyPreference setting in
radio-settings-api in a way which would enable user to limit usage of 
certain
radio accesses? For example user could choose to limit technology usage to
technologies like GSM and UMTS even if the LTE coverage would be available.
Following value could be introduced to current API to enable this kind of
selection:

"gsm"      Only GSM used for radio access.
"umts"     Only UMTS used for radio access.
"gsm_umts" Only GSM or UMTS used for radio access.
"lte"      Only LTE used for radio access.

Other approach could be that we would rephrase existing API so that 
instead of
using "only" LTE, we would use LTE whenever available and some older 
technology
when LTE coverage is lacking. So user would select "highest" allowed radio
access without restrictions to use only one technology which has been 
selected.
This would save us from polluting value selection with options like 
"gsm_umts",
a decision we'd be grateful when we'll run oFono on 10G modems. ;)

Use case for this could be energy conservation. At least I have habit to set
network preference to 'GSM' to conserve battery life when I know I'm 
going to
travel places where 3G coverage is not that good or I'm not going to 
need it.

Br,
Paavo

Re: Selecting multiple radio access technologies in oFono

[=?unknown-8bit?q?R=C3=A9mi?= Denis-Courmont]

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On Monday 31 January 2011 15:59:14 ext Paavo Leinonen, you wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Could it be possible to extend current TechnologyPreference setting in
> radio-settings-api in a way which would enable user to limit usage of
> certain radio accesses?

> For example user could choose to limit technology usage to
> technologies like GSM and UMTS even if the LTE coverage would be available.
> Following value could be introduced to current API to enable this kind of
> selection:
> 
> "gsm"      Only GSM used for radio access.
> "umts"     Only UMTS used for radio access.
> "gsm_umts" Only GSM or UMTS used for radio access.
> "lte"      Only LTE used for radio access.

Oh my, no.

If you want to control technologies one by one, use a string and a boolean. If 
you really want atomicity w.r.t. D-Bus, then make it a dictionary.

-- 
Rémi Denis-Courmont
Nokia Devices R&D, Maemo Software, Helsinki

Re: Selecting multiple radio access technologies in oFono

[Aki Niemi]

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Hi Paavo,

On Mon, 2011-01-31 at 15:59 +0200, ext Paavo Leinonen wrote:
> Could it be possible to extend current TechnologyPreference setting in
> radio-settings-api in a way which would enable user to limit usage of 
> certain
> radio accesses? For example user could choose to limit technology usage to
> technologies like GSM and UMTS even if the LTE coverage would be available.
> Following value could be introduced to current API to enable this kind of
> selection:
> 
> "gsm"      Only GSM used for radio access.
> "umts"     Only UMTS used for radio access.
> "gsm_umts" Only GSM or UMTS used for radio access.
> "lte"      Only LTE used for radio access.

The current API has 'gsm', 'umts', 'lte' and 'any'. I think you are
suggesting something like 'all-but-lte', right?

> Other approach could be that we would rephrase existing API so that 
> instead of
> using "only" LTE, we would use LTE whenever available and some older 
> technology
> when LTE coverage is lacking. So user would select "highest" allowed radio
> access without restrictions to use only one technology which has been 
> selected.

This is what 'any' essentially is for.

> This would save us from polluting value selection with options like 
> "gsm_umts",
> a decision we'd be grateful when we'll run oFono on 10G modems. ;)
> 
> Use case for this could be energy conservation. At least I have habit to set
> network preference to 'GSM' to conserve battery life when I know I'm 
> going to
> travel places where 3G coverage is not that good or I'm not going to 
> need it.

I think this will also get gradually better as networks and handsets are
upgraded to use better power saving features, such as CPC.

Cheers,
Aki

> Br,
> Paavo
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ofono mailing list
> ofono(a)ofono.org
> http://lists.ofono.org/listinfo/ofono

Re: Selecting multiple radio access technologies in oFono

[Paavo Leinonen]

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Hi Aki,

On 02/01/2011 10:25 PM, Aki Niemi wrote:
> The current API has 'gsm', 'umts', 'lte' and 'any'. I think you are
> suggesting something like 'all-but-lte', right?
I think it would be nice if user could be able to select multiple
preferred  bands, not just only one. The use case I came up with was
this 'all-but-lte'.
>> Other approach could be that we would rephrase existing API so that
>> instead of
>> using "only" LTE, we would use LTE whenever available and some older
>> technology
>> when LTE coverage is lacking. So user would select "highest" allowed radio
>> access without restrictions to use only one technology which has been
>> selected.
> This is what 'any' essentially is for.
You can't limit preferred bands with 'any'. I was trying to find an
alternative for polluting API by listing all the possible combinations
('gsm_umts', 'gsm_lte', 'umts_lte') in API.

However, I don't think we need this anymore as Rémi kindly pointed out
a solution earlierwhich involves dictionary with strings and booleans.

Br,
Paavo

Re: Selecting multiple radio access technologies in oFono

[Marcel Holtmann]

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Hi Paavo,

> > The current API has 'gsm', 'umts', 'lte' and 'any'. I think you are
> > suggesting something like 'all-but-lte', right?
> I think it would be nice if user could be able to select multiple
> preferred  bands, not just only one. The use case I came up with was
> this 'all-but-lte'.

can we first be clear that we are talking about technology selection and
not band selection. They are different.

Right now I have no idea on how the hardware will ever support this
properly. RAT selection is already so different that I prefer to keep it
like this. It is simple. We can cross the LTE bridge once this becomes a
real problem.

Regards

Marcel

Re: Selecting multiple radio access technologies in oFono

[=?unknown-8bit?q?R=C3=A9mi?= Denis-Courmont]

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On Wednesday 02 February 2011 11:42:42 ext Marcel Holtmann, you wrote:
> Right now I have no idea on how the hardware will ever support this
> properly. RAT selection is already so different that I prefer to keep it
> like this. It is simple. We can cross the LTE bridge once this becomes a
> real problem.

As far as 3GPP 27.007 is concerned, I reckon a specific technology can be 
chosen (with or w/o fallback), not an arbitrary set of technologies.

-- 
Rémi Denis-Courmont
Nokia Devices R&D, Maemo Software, Helsinki

Re: Selecting multiple radio access technologies in oFono

[Sjur =?unknown-8bit?q?Br=C3=A6ndeland?=]

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Hi Marcel & Aki

>> > The current API has 'gsm', 'umts', 'lte' and 'any'. I think you are
>> > suggesting something like 'all-but-lte', right?
>> I think it would be nice if user could be able to select multiple
>> preferred  bands, not just only one. The use case I came up with was
>> this 'all-but-lte'.
>
> can we first be clear that we are talking about technology selection and
> not band selection. They are different.
>
> Right now I have no idea on how the hardware will ever support this
> properly.

FYI, as far as I know the STE will supports the following technology
combinations:
- GSM only (WCDMA/E-UTRAN off)
- WCDMA only (GSM/E-UTRAN off)
- GSM +WCDMA (E-UTRAN off)
- E-UTRAN only (GSM/WCDMA off)
- E-UTRAN+GSM (WCDMA off)
- E-UTRAN+WCDMA (GSM off)

*If* we want to expose this kind of granularity on the oFono API,
we should probably go with Remi's proposal with a boolean for each
technology.

> RAT selection is already so different that I prefer to keep it
> like this. It is simple. We can cross the LTE bridge once this becomes a
> real problem.

If you want to keep it simple it's fine with me. But personally I
agree with Paavo
it could be useful to be able to set the radio in "all-but-lte" mode...

Regards,
Sjur

Re: Selecting multiple radio access technologies in oFono

[Marcel Holtmann]

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Hi Sjur,

> >> > The current API has 'gsm', 'umts', 'lte' and 'any'. I think you are
> >> > suggesting something like 'all-but-lte', right?
> >> I think it would be nice if user could be able to select multiple
> >> preferred  bands, not just only one. The use case I came up with was
> >> this 'all-but-lte'.
> >
> > can we first be clear that we are talking about technology selection and
> > not band selection. They are different.
> >
> > Right now I have no idea on how the hardware will ever support this
> > properly.
> 
> FYI, as far as I know the STE will supports the following technology
> combinations:
> - GSM only (WCDMA/E-UTRAN off)
> - WCDMA only (GSM/E-UTRAN off)
> - GSM +WCDMA (E-UTRAN off)
> - E-UTRAN only (GSM/WCDMA off)
> - E-UTRAN+GSM (WCDMA off)
> - E-UTRAN+WCDMA (GSM off)
> 
> *If* we want to expose this kind of granularity on the oFono API,
> we should probably go with Remi's proposal with a boolean for each
> technology.

right now I prefer to keep it simple.

We also have to think about the CDMA+LTE combination and CDMA+GSM combo
chips. There is still a bit a uncertainty how these are going to look
like. And more important how we have to expose them.

> > RAT selection is already so different that I prefer to keep it
> > like this. It is simple. We can cross the LTE bridge once this becomes a
> > real problem.
> 
> If you want to keep it simple it's fine with me. But personally I
> agree with Paavo
> it could be useful to be able to set the radio in "all-but-lte" mode...

Couldn't this be achieved by actual band selection if you really really
wanted this? Do we actually have different LTE band at all. I am still
not all that familiar with the low-level radio technology behind LTE.

Regards

Marcel

RE: Selecting multiple radio access technologies in oFono

[Kjetil ASDAL]

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Hi Marcel, 

Marcel wrote: 
> Couldn't this be achieved by actual band selection if you really really
> wanted this? Do we actually have different LTE band at all. I am still
> not all that familiar with the low-level radio technology behind LTE.

When you say "band selection", I assume you are talking about frequency bands. 
AFAIK, the frequency band is a setting within the radio access technology, and 
I don't think it is possible to "disable" LTE by deselecting certain frequency 
bands. Furthermore, AFAIK, there are no AT commands for doing frequency band 
selection.

Anyway, if you do not want to use LTE, then you should specifically tell the UE 
to disable/deactivate the part of the radio stack that handles EUTRAN.

Regards,
Kjetil

Re: Selecting multiple radio access technologies in oFono

[Lucas De Marchi]

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Hi Kjetil,

On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 10:00 AM, Kjetil ASDAL
<kjetil.asdal@stericsson.com> wrote:
> When you say "band selection", I assume you are talking about frequency bands.
> AFAIK, the frequency band is a setting within the radio access technology, and
> I don't think it is possible to "disable" LTE by deselecting certain frequency

I don't know about LTE, but I can effectively disable umts in my
huawei modem just by choosing a frequency not available in my country.
Then, when going online the modem is forced to use one of the GSM
ones.


> bands. Furthermore, AFAIK, there are no AT commands for doing frequency band
> selection.

It depends on the modem. See the implementation for huawei in
drivers/huaweimodem/radio-settings.c:huawei_set_band(). It uses the
AT^SYSCFG command that is specific to huawei modems.




regards,
Lucas De Marchi

RE: Selecting multiple radio access technologies in oFono

[Kjetil ASDAL]

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Hi Lucas,

Lucas wrote:
 
> I don't know about LTE, but I can effectively disable umts in my
> huawei modem just by choosing a frequency not available in my country.
> Then, when going online the modem is forced to use one of the GSM
> ones.
 
That may very well be so, but I still think this is at best a funny way 
to disable LTE (or any other RAT for that matter). I should come right 
out and say that I am far from an expert on how the radio stack operates, 
but I suspect that by doing what you propose, the radio will have to do 
periodical "measurements" to see if the chosen frequency band has become 
available, and this could result in some extra power consumption.

> It depends on the modem. See the implementation for huawei in
> drivers/huaweimodem/radio-settings.c:huawei_set_band(). It uses the
> AT^SYSCFG command that is specific to huawei modems.

Of course you are right; it definitely depends on the modem and what AT 
commands are supported. What I meant (but did not write) was that there 
are no standard AT commands (i.e. from 3GPP TS 27.007) for this.

Regards, 
Kjetil