Discussion of the VIRTIO specification
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From: "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>
To: David Edmondson <david.edmondson@oracle.com>
Cc: virtio-comment@lists.oasis-open.org,
	virtio-dev@lists.oasis-open.org, jasowang@redhat.com,
	cohuck@redhat.com, sgarzare@redhat.com, stefanha@redhat.com,
	nrupal.jani@intel.com, Piotr.Uminski@intel.com,
	hang.yuan@intel.com, virtio@lists.oasis-open.org,
	Zhu Lingshan <lingshan.zhu@intel.com>,
	pasic@linux.ibm.com, Shahaf Shuler <shahafs@nvidia.com>,
	Parav Pandit <parav@nvidia.com>,
	Max Gurtovoy <mgurtovoy@nvidia.com>
Subject: [virtio-comment] Re: [virtio] [PATCH v10 01/10] virtio: document forward compatibility guarantees
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2023 17:00:16 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20230306165907-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <m2leka0yvl.fsf@oracle.com>

On Mon, Mar 06, 2023 at 01:53:50PM +0000, David Edmondson wrote:
> "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com> writes:
> 
> > Feature negotiation forms the basis of forward compatibility
> > guarantees of virtio but has never been properly documented.
> > Do it now.
> >
> > Suggested-by: Halil Pasic <pasic@linux.ibm.com>
> > Signed-off-by: Michael S. Tsirkin <mst@redhat.com>
> > ---
> >  content.tex | 42 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >  1 file changed, 42 insertions(+)
> >
> > diff --git a/content.tex b/content.tex
> > index 0e474dd..0c2d917 100644
> > --- a/content.tex
> > +++ b/content.tex
> > @@ -114,21 +114,63 @@ \section{Feature Bits}\label{sec:Basic Facilities of a Virtio Device / Feature B
> >  In particular, new fields in the device configuration space are
> >  indicated by offering a new feature bit.
> >  
> > +To keep the feature negotiation mechanism extensible, it is important
> > +that devices \em{do not} offer any feature bits that they would not be
> > +able to handle if the driver accepted them (even though drivers are not
> > +supposed to accept them in the first place even if offered, according to
> > +this version of the specification.) 
> 
> I find this (the bit in parenthesis) confusing.
> 
> Why are drivers not supposed to accept features that they have been
> offered, given that they can't know that the device cannot handle the
> feature that it just offered?
> 
> Is this alluding to the later section:
> 
> > feature bits not described in this specification, reserved feature
> > bits and feature bits reserved or not supported for the specific
> > transport or the specific device type
> 
> ?

exactly. how would you put this better? given an example?

> > Likewise, it is important that
> > +drivers \em{do not} accept feature bits they do not know how to handle
> > +(even though devices are not supposed to offer them in the first place,
> > +according to this version of the specification.) The preferred way for
> > +handling reserved and unexpected features is that the driver ignores
> > +them.
> > +
> > +In particular, this is
> > +especially important for features limited to specific transports,
> > +as enabling these for more transports in future versions of the
> > +specification is highly likely to require changing the behaviour
> > +from drivers and devices.
> 
> "require changed behaviour from drivers and devices".
> 
> > Drivers and devices supporting
> > +multiple transports need to carefully maintain per-transport
> > +lists of allowed features.
> > +
> >  \drivernormative{\subsection}{Feature Bits}{Basic Facilities of a Virtio Device / Feature Bits}
> >  The driver MUST NOT accept a feature which the device did not offer,
> >  and MUST NOT accept a feature which requires another feature which was
> >  not accepted.
> >  
> > +The driver MUST validate the feature bits offered by the device.
> > +The driver MUST ignore and MUST NOT accept any feature bit that is
> > +\begin{itemize}
> > +\item not described in this specification,
> > +\item marked as reserved,
> > +\item not supported for the specific transport,
> > +\item not defined for the device type.
> > +\end{itemize}
> > +
> >  The driver SHOULD go into backwards compatibility mode
> >  if the device does not offer a feature it understands, otherwise MUST
> >  set the FAILED \field{device status} bit and cease initialization.
> >  
> > +By contrast, the driver MUST NOT fail solely because a feature
> > +it does not understand has been offered by the device.
> > +
> >  \devicenormative{\subsection}{Feature Bits}{Basic Facilities of a Virtio Device / Feature Bits}
> >  The device MUST NOT offer a feature which requires another feature
> >  which was not offered.  The device SHOULD accept any valid subset
> >  of features the driver accepts, otherwise it MUST fail to set the
> >  FEATURES_OK \field{device status} bit when the driver writes it.
> >  
> > +The device MUST NOT offer feature bits corresponding to features
> > +it would not support if accepted by the driver (even if the
> > +driver is prohibited from accepting the feature bits by the
> > +specification); for the sake of clarity, this refers to feature
> > +bits not described in this specification, reserved feature bits
> > +and feature bits reserved or not supported for the specific
> > +transport or the specific device type, but this does not preclude
> > +devices written to a future version of this specification from
> > +offering such feature bits should such a specification have a
> > +provision for devices to support the corresponding features.
> > +
> >  If a device has successfully negotiated a set of features
> >  at least once (by accepting the FEATURES_OK \field{device
> >  status} bit during device initialization), then it SHOULD
> > -- 
> > MST
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that 
> > generates this mail.  Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at:
> > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php 


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  parent reply	other threads:[~2023-03-06 22:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 136+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <cover.1677761896.git.mst@redhat.com>
2023-03-06 16:40 ` [virtio-comment] [PATCH v10 00/10] Introduce device group and device management Jiri Pirko
2023-03-06 22:48   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-07  7:17     ` Jiri Pirko
2023-03-07 17:15       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
     [not found] ` <2d232eba17d75c5dad2db17dc297f34a3612c33e.1677761896.git.mst@redhat.com>
2023-03-06 17:00   ` [virtio-comment] Re: [virtio] [PATCH v10 02/10] admin: introduce device group and related concepts David Edmondson
     [not found] ` <0a784140387c2a592f7e1e7bbc5ae926ec5b45da.1677761896.git.mst@redhat.com>
     [not found]   ` <m2leka0yvl.fsf@oracle.com>
2023-03-06 22:00     ` Michael S. Tsirkin [this message]
2023-03-07 10:04       ` [virtio-comment] Re: [virtio] [PATCH v10 01/10] virtio: document forward compatibility guarantees David Edmondson
2023-03-08 14:16         ` Cornelia Huck
2023-03-08 15:04           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
     [not found] ` <ZAXcqqdwfoLokT2l@nanopsycho>
2023-03-06 22:54   ` [virtio-comment] [PATCH v10 00/10] Introduce device group and device management Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-07  7:21     ` Jiri Pirko
2023-03-07 17:20       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-07 19:31         ` Parav Pandit
2023-03-08  5:11           ` Jason Wang
2023-03-08 12:02             ` Parav Pandit
2023-03-10  8:32           ` Zhu, Lingshan
2023-03-08  9:49         ` [virtio-comment] Re: [virtio] " Jiri Pirko
2023-03-08 16:30     ` Cornelia Huck
2023-03-08 17:22       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-08 18:15       ` Jiri Pirko
     [not found] ` <910b3607a5f255134d30b3e1233e564f564eafb8.1677761896.git.mst@redhat.com>
     [not found]   ` <20230302201011.GB2554028@fedora>
     [not found]     ` <20230302185214-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org>
     [not found]       ` <20230303131337.GA2866370@fedora>
     [not found]         ` <20230303081515-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org>
2023-03-03 20:23           ` [virtio-comment] Re: [PATCH v10 03/10] admin: introduce group administration commands Stefan Hajnoczi
2023-03-07 11:31             ` [virtio-comment] Re: [virtio-dev] " Jiri Pirko
2023-03-08 12:03               ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-07 10:31   ` [virtio-comment] Re: [virtio] " David Edmondson
     [not found]   ` <PH0PR12MB548116853CAC23DF9CA7345EDCB29@PH0PR12MB5481.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
     [not found]     ` <20230302184447-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org>
2023-03-07 18:26       ` [virtio-comment] " Parav Pandit
2023-03-15 10:44       ` [virtio-comment] " Max Gurtovoy
     [not found]     ` <20230302201912.GC2554028@fedora>
     [not found]       ` <20230302185803-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org>
     [not found]         ` <20230303131703.GB2866370@fedora>
     [not found]           ` <20230303081900-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org>
     [not found]             ` <4f869944-4ccd-c51e-0f30-dc3ba15ffd52@nvidia.com>
2023-03-07 18:33               ` [virtio-comment] " Parav Pandit
2023-03-08  0:34               ` [virtio-comment] " Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-08  1:01                 ` [virtio-comment] " Parav Pandit
2023-03-08  1:06                   ` [virtio-comment] " Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-08  1:14                     ` [virtio-comment] " Parav Pandit
2023-03-08 10:55                 ` [virtio-comment] " Max Gurtovoy
2023-03-08 12:07                   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-08 13:05                     ` Max Gurtovoy
2023-03-08 14:43                       ` Cornelia Huck
2023-03-08 14:54                         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-08 15:21                       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-09  0:29                   ` Max Gurtovoy
2023-03-09  6:38                     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
     [not found] ` <20c81b66f0b21b5bd646c24840ac3f8462c86acf.1677761896.git.mst@redhat.com>
     [not found]   ` <20230302204007.GD2554028@fedora>
     [not found]     ` <20230302190230-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org>
     [not found]       ` <20230303132840.GC2866370@fedora>
2023-03-03 13:37         ` [virtio-comment] Re: [PATCH v10 04/10] admin: introduce virtio admin virtqueues Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-03 20:21           ` [virtio-comment] Re: [virtio] " Stefan Hajnoczi
2023-03-05  9:38             ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-06  0:03               ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2023-03-06  0:18                 ` Michael S. Tsirkin
     [not found]                   ` <20230306110340.GA35392@fedora>
2023-03-06 18:37                     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-06 20:17                       ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2023-03-06 21:43                         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-31 11:07                         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-07  8:03                       ` Jiri Pirko
2023-03-07 14:39                         ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2023-03-07 15:07                           ` Jiri Pirko
2023-03-07 19:03                             ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2023-03-07 19:09                               ` Parav Pandit
2023-03-08  5:17                                 ` [virtio-comment] Re: [virtio] " Jason Wang
2023-03-08 11:58                                   ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2023-03-08 11:59                                   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-08 10:17                               ` Jiri Pirko
2023-03-08 12:44                                 ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2023-03-08 12:57                                   ` [virtio-comment] Re: [virtio] " Jiri Pirko
2023-03-08 17:17                                     ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2023-03-07 16:13                         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-08 10:08                           ` Jiri Pirko
2023-03-08 11:44                             ` Michael S. Tsirkin
     [not found]                 ` <7f63fa0a-7deb-5875-6c6b-bfc651681653@redhat.com>
     [not found]                   ` <20230306112030.GB35392@fedora>
2023-03-06 15:28                     ` Max Gurtovoy
2023-03-06 16:25                       ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2023-03-07 19:04                         ` [virtio-comment] " Parav Pandit
2023-03-08 11:17                         ` [virtio-comment] " Max Gurtovoy
2023-03-08 14:13                           ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2023-03-08 16:19                             ` Max Gurtovoy
2023-03-08 17:15                               ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2023-03-08 17:21                                 ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-09 12:35                                   ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2023-03-09 13:55                                     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-09 15:56                                       ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2023-03-08 16:21                             ` Parav Pandit
     [not found]       ` <e8d41902-b794-66e9-8f15-e8617435047c@redhat.com>
2023-03-06 16:22         ` Jiri Pirko
     [not found]       ` <027fff1b-8ed7-abc0-2331-b188b8822bf4@nvidia.com>
2023-03-06 22:49         ` [virtio-comment] " Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-08 20:58           ` Max Gurtovoy
2023-03-08 21:09             ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-08 21:17               ` Parav Pandit
2023-03-09  7:28               ` [virtio-comment] Re: [virtio-dev] " Jiri Pirko
2023-03-07  7:56         ` Jiri Pirko
     [not found]   ` <ZAXfegxCfvfLwiJT@nanopsycho>
2023-03-06 15:37     ` [virtio-comment] Re: [virtio] " Max Gurtovoy
2023-03-06 18:44       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-06 18:40     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-07  7:36       ` Jiri Pirko
2023-03-07 16:30         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-08 10:05           ` Jiri Pirko
2023-03-08 11:50             ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-08 12:08               ` Jiri Pirko
2023-03-08 17:29                 ` Max Gurtovoy
2023-03-08 18:01                   ` David Edmondson
2023-03-08 18:19                     ` Jiri Pirko
2023-03-08 21:25                     ` Parav Pandit
2023-03-09  7:30                       ` Jiri Pirko
2023-03-09 13:04                         ` Parav Pandit
2023-03-09 13:57                           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-09 14:02                           ` David Edmondson
2023-03-09 14:11                             ` Parav Pandit
2023-03-09 14:22                               ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-09 14:30                                 ` Parav Pandit
2023-03-09 14:43                                   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-09 16:53                                     ` Parav Pandit
2023-03-09 17:14                                       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-09 17:16                                         ` Parav Pandit
2023-03-08 21:45             ` Parav Pandit
2023-03-09  7:37               ` Jiri Pirko
2023-03-09 12:36                 ` Parav Pandit
2023-03-09 16:32                   ` Jiri Pirko
2023-03-07 10:41   ` David Edmondson
     [not found] ` <6677477d48dfc234d3d1a339fb39d8fa2a3b983d.1677761896.git.mst@redhat.com>
2023-03-07 11:04   ` [virtio-comment] [PATCH v10 09/10] admin: conformance clauses David Edmondson
2023-03-08 11:58     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-08 12:59       ` David Edmondson
2023-03-08 13:05         ` [virtio-comment] Re: [virtio] " Jiri Pirko
2023-03-08 13:22           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-08 13:44           ` David Edmondson
2023-03-08 14:02             ` Jiri Pirko
2023-03-08 14:12               ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-10  9:10   ` [virtio-comment] " Zhu, Lingshan
2023-03-10  9:13     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-10 18:00       ` Zhu Lingshan
2023-03-10  9:34     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
     [not found] ` <dd9c34ed74ee296228562f6946d4ca3f2fbee1e1.1677761896.git.mst@redhat.com>
     [not found]   ` <PH0PR12MB5481595368C8F0C0E16B681BDCB29@PH0PR12MB5481.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
     [not found]     ` <20230303032434-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org>
     [not found]       ` <ZAXB44F3MS9CxIiK@nanopsycho>
2023-03-06 18:46         ` [virtio-comment] Re: [virtio] Re: [PATCH v10 06/10] mmio: document ADMIN_VQ as reserved Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-07  7:40           ` Jiri Pirko
2023-03-07 18:52       ` [virtio-comment] " Parav Pandit
2023-03-08 16:24         ` Cornelia Huck
2023-03-08 16:37           ` Parav Pandit
2023-03-08 16:30         ` [virtio-comment] " Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-08 18:21           ` [virtio-comment] Re: [virtio] " Jiri Pirko
     [not found] ` <80c4bc60c9119f68b66f5a003564cec719cc1487.1677761896.git.mst@redhat.com>
2023-03-07 10:54   ` [virtio-comment] Re: [virtio-dev] [PATCH v10 08/10] admin: command list discovery David Edmondson
     [not found]   ` <ZAXbBgN2jw8RhE/3@nanopsycho>
2023-03-08 11:54     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-08 12:41       ` Jiri Pirko
2023-03-31 11:43         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2023-03-08 12:38   ` Jiri Pirko
2023-03-10  8:14   ` [virtio-comment] " Zhu, Lingshan
     [not found]   ` <20230302210929.GH2554028@fedora>
2023-03-31 11:39     ` Michael S. Tsirkin

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