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From: Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>
To: Andrea Arcangeli <andrea@novell.com>
Cc: Jesse Barnes <jbarnes@sgi.com>,
	Marcelo Tosatti <marcelo.tosatti@cyclades.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@osdl.org>,
	Nick Piggin <piggin@cyberone.com.au>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-mm@kvack.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Remove OOM killer from try_to_free_pages / all_unreclaimable braindamage
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 02:55:50 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1099706150.2810.147.camel@thomas> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20041106012018.GT8229@dualathlon.random>

On Sat, 2004-11-06 at 02:20 +0100, Andrea Arcangeli wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 05, 2004 at 03:32:50PM -0800, Jesse Barnes wrote:
> > On Friday, November 05, 2004 12:01 pm, Marcelo Tosatti wrote:
> > > In my opinion the correct approach is to trigger the OOM killer
> > > when kswapd is unable to free pages. Once that is done, the number
> > > of tasks inside page reclaim is irrelevant.
> > 
> > That makes sense.
> 
> I don't like it, kswapd may fail balancing because there's a GFP_DMA
> allocation that eat the last dma page, but we should not kill tasks if
> we fail to balance in kswapd, we should kill tasks only when no fail
> path exists (i.e. only during page faults, everything else in the kernel
> has a fail path and it should never trigger oom).
> 
> If you move it in kswapd there's no way to prevent oom-killing from a
> syscall allocation (I guess even right now it would go wrong in this
> sense, but at least right now it's more fixable). I want to move the oom
> kill outside the alloc_page paths. The oom killing is all about the page
> faults not having a fail path, and in turn the oom killing should be
> moved in the page fault code, not in the allocator. Everything else
> should keep returning -ENOMEM to the caller.
> 
> So to me moving the oom killer into kswapd looks a regression.

My point is not where oom-killer is triggered. My point is the decision
criteria of oom-killer, when it is finally invoked, which process to
kill. That's kind of independend of your patch. Your patch corrects the
context in which oom-killer is called. My concern is that the decision
critrion which process should be killed is not sufficient. In my case it
kills sshd instead of a process which forks a bunch of child processes.
Thats just wrong, because it takes away the chance to log into the
machine remotely and fix the problem.

tglx



WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>
To: Andrea Arcangeli <andrea@novell.com>
Cc: Jesse Barnes <jbarnes@sgi.com>,
	Marcelo Tosatti <marcelo.tosatti@cyclades.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@osdl.org>,
	Nick Piggin <piggin@cyberone.com.au>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-mm@kvack.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Remove OOM killer from try_to_free_pages / all_unreclaimable braindamage
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 02:55:50 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1099706150.2810.147.camel@thomas> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20041106012018.GT8229@dualathlon.random>

On Sat, 2004-11-06 at 02:20 +0100, Andrea Arcangeli wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 05, 2004 at 03:32:50PM -0800, Jesse Barnes wrote:
> > On Friday, November 05, 2004 12:01 pm, Marcelo Tosatti wrote:
> > > In my opinion the correct approach is to trigger the OOM killer
> > > when kswapd is unable to free pages. Once that is done, the number
> > > of tasks inside page reclaim is irrelevant.
> > 
> > That makes sense.
> 
> I don't like it, kswapd may fail balancing because there's a GFP_DMA
> allocation that eat the last dma page, but we should not kill tasks if
> we fail to balance in kswapd, we should kill tasks only when no fail
> path exists (i.e. only during page faults, everything else in the kernel
> has a fail path and it should never trigger oom).
> 
> If you move it in kswapd there's no way to prevent oom-killing from a
> syscall allocation (I guess even right now it would go wrong in this
> sense, but at least right now it's more fixable). I want to move the oom
> kill outside the alloc_page paths. The oom killing is all about the page
> faults not having a fail path, and in turn the oom killing should be
> moved in the page fault code, not in the allocator. Everything else
> should keep returning -ENOMEM to the caller.
> 
> So to me moving the oom killer into kswapd looks a regression.

My point is not where oom-killer is triggered. My point is the decision
criteria of oom-killer, when it is finally invoked, which process to
kill. That's kind of independend of your patch. Your patch corrects the
context in which oom-killer is called. My concern is that the decision
critrion which process should be killed is not sufficient. In my case it
kills sshd instead of a process which forks a bunch of child processes.
Thats just wrong, because it takes away the chance to log into the
machine remotely and fix the problem.

tglx


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  parent reply	other threads:[~2004-11-06  2:04 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 93+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2004-11-05 20:01 [PATCH] Remove OOM killer from try_to_free_pages / all_unreclaimable braindamage Marcelo Tosatti
2004-11-05 20:01 ` Marcelo Tosatti
2004-11-05 23:32 ` Jesse Barnes
2004-11-05 23:47   ` Thomas Gleixner
2004-11-05 23:47     ` Thomas Gleixner
2004-11-06  1:20   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2004-11-06  1:20     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2004-11-06  1:26     ` Nick Piggin
2004-11-06  1:26       ` Nick Piggin
2004-11-06  1:36       ` Jesse Barnes
2004-11-06  1:36         ` Jesse Barnes
2004-11-06  1:50       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2004-11-06  1:50         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2004-11-06  9:47         ` Hugh Dickins
2004-11-06  9:47           ` Hugh Dickins
2004-11-06 10:53           ` Nick Piggin
2004-11-06 10:53             ` Nick Piggin
2004-11-06 15:29             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2004-11-06 15:29               ` Andrea Arcangeli
2004-11-06 15:29           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2004-11-06 15:29             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2004-11-06 16:21             ` Hugh Dickins
2004-11-06 16:21               ` Hugh Dickins
2004-12-10  6:02               ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-12-10  6:02                 ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-11-06 11:37         ` Nikita Danilov
2004-11-06 11:37           ` Nikita Danilov
2004-11-06 15:32           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2004-11-06 15:32             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2004-11-06 16:54             ` Nikita Danilov
2004-11-06 16:54               ` Nikita Danilov
2004-11-06 17:44               ` Andrea Arcangeli
2004-11-06 17:44                 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2004-11-06 19:24                 ` Nikita Danilov
2004-11-06 19:24                   ` Nikita Danilov
2004-11-07  1:16                   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2004-11-07  1:16                     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2004-11-06 10:11       ` Marcelo Tosatti
2004-11-06 10:11         ` Marcelo Tosatti
2004-11-06  1:55     ` Thomas Gleixner [this message]
2004-11-06  1:55       ` Thomas Gleixner
2004-11-06 10:28       ` Marcelo Tosatti
2004-11-06 10:28         ` Marcelo Tosatti
2004-11-17 22:54       ` Werner Almesberger
2004-11-17 22:54         ` Werner Almesberger
2004-11-17 23:27         ` Chris Ross
2004-11-17 23:27           ` Chris Ross
2004-11-18  0:04           ` Werner Almesberger
2004-11-18  0:04             ` Werner Almesberger
2004-11-18  0:28             ` Chris Ross
2004-11-18  0:28               ` Chris Ross
2004-11-18  1:14               ` Werner Almesberger
2004-11-18  1:14                 ` Werner Almesberger
2004-11-18  8:20                 ` Chris Ross
2004-11-18  8:20                   ` Chris Ross
2004-11-18 10:01                   ` Werner Almesberger
2004-11-18 10:01                     ` Werner Almesberger
2004-11-18 14:44                     ` Thomas Gleixner
2004-11-18 14:44                       ` Thomas Gleixner
2004-11-18 15:10                       ` Chris Friesen
2004-11-18 15:10                         ` Chris Friesen
2004-11-06 10:05     ` Marcelo Tosatti
2004-11-06 10:05       ` Marcelo Tosatti
2004-11-06 15:44       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2004-11-06 15:44         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2004-11-06 15:52         ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-11-06 15:52           ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-11-06 17:09         ` Marcelo Tosatti
2004-11-06 17:09           ` Marcelo Tosatti
2004-11-07  0:48           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2004-11-07  0:48             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2004-11-07 11:21             ` Marcelo Tosatti
2004-11-07 11:21               ` Marcelo Tosatti
2004-11-06 12:53 ` [PATCH] Remove OOM killer Andries Brouwer
2004-11-06 12:53   ` Andries Brouwer
2004-11-06 10:41   ` Marcelo Tosatti
2004-11-06 10:41     ` Marcelo Tosatti
2004-11-07  9:26   ` Marko Macek
2004-11-07  9:26     ` Marko Macek
2004-11-07 11:34     ` memory overcommit (was: [PATCH] Remove OOM killer ...) Anton Ertl
2004-11-08 16:27 ` [PATCH] Remove OOM killer from try_to_free_pages / all_unreclaimable braindamage Marcelo Tosatti
2004-11-08 16:27   ` Marcelo Tosatti
2004-11-08 18:55   ` Marcelo Tosatti
2004-11-09  2:22     ` Nick Piggin
2004-11-09  2:35       ` Andrew Morton
2004-11-09  2:46         ` Nick Piggin
2004-11-09  7:18           ` Marcelo Tosatti
2004-11-09  7:15         ` Marcelo Tosatti
2004-11-10  1:11           ` Nick Piggin
     [not found] <fa.ev73q5c.ejcnom@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found] ` <fa.es1mdq5.76ib8j@ifi.uio.no>
2004-11-18 20:48   ` Bodo Eggert
2004-11-18 21:15     ` Werner Almesberger
2004-11-19  1:05       ` Bodo Eggert
2004-11-19  0:15     ` Andreas Dilger

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