Some basic questions

Some basic questions

[Frank W. Miller]

Greetings,

I apologize if these questions seem trivial or are document somewhere
that I haven't searched as yet.

I'm essentially trying to build a new distro type.  I currently have
kernel 2.6.39.2 booting from a USB stick.  The kernel comes up using the
Intel framebuffer kms in its proper resolution and I have some basic
graphics routines that allow me to output as desired to the screen, and
NOTHING ELSE.

My next step is to get udev going.  To that end, I've downloaded and
studied to some extent release 172.  I'm using FC12 as my build machine
(e.g. gcc 4.4.2).  This is what I think is supposed to happen, please
correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

When I build udev, I do this:

configure --enable-static

This is to get the udev binaries to build without needing libraries.
Then:

make

I get this:

  CC     extras/input_id/input_id.o
extras/input_id/input_id.c: In function ‘test_key’:
extras/input_id/input_id.c:173: error: ‘BTN_TRIGGER_HAPPY’ undeclared
(first use in this function)
extras/input_id/input_id.c:173: error: (Each undeclared identifier is
reported only once
extras/input_id/input_id.c:173: error: for each function it appears in.)
make[2]: *** [extras/input_id/input_id.o] Error 1
make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make: *** [all] Error 2

I did a search and came up with some results about kernel and udev
version mismatches but being the newbie to udev I am, I'm not sure I
understand what to do.  So thats the first question?

Once I get the binaries built, I'll need to install them and the config
files in the proper places in my USB filesystem correct?  I get this
output from the configure script:

	udev 172
	====

	prefix:			/usr
	sysconfdir:		${prefix}/etc
	sbindir:		${exec_prefix}/sbin
	libdir:			${exec_prefix}/lib
	rootlibdir:		${exec_prefix}/lib
	libexecdir:		${exec_prefix}/libexec

	datarootdir:		${prefix}/share
	mandir:			${datarootdir}/man
	includedir:		${prefix}/include

	include_prefix:		/usr/include

	systemdsystemunitdir:	

	logging:		yes
	debug:			no
	selinux:		no

	compiler:		gcc
	cflags:			-g -O2
	ldflags:		

	rule_generator:		yes
	hwdb:			yes
	udev_acl:		yes
	gudev:			yes
	gintrospection:		yes
	keymap:			yes
	floppy:			no
	edd:			no

	usb.ids:		/usr/share/hwdata/usb.ids
	pci.ids:		/usr/share/hwdata/pci.ids
	firmware path:		\"/lib/firmware/updates/\", \"/lib/firmware/\"

	xsltproc:		/usr/bin/xsltproc
	gperf:			/usr/bin/gperf

I'm assuming I'll need to install the binaries in /usr/sbin?  And the
config files in /usr/share/hwdata?

I then need to start udevd on bootup correct?

OK, maybe I should see what the answers to these questions are before I
ask more silly things  ;)

Thanks in advance for any assistance on this.  I'd really like to keep
this as simple as possible.  For example, its not clear to me what
"extras" are and how to turn them off if they are not needed.

Thanks,
FM

Re: Some basic questions

[Greg KH]

On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 05:59:03PM -0600, Frank W. Miller wrote:
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> I apologize if these questions seem trivial or are document somewhere
> that I haven't searched as yet.
> 
> I'm essentially trying to build a new distro type.  I currently have
> kernel 2.6.39.2 booting from a USB stick.  The kernel comes up using the
> Intel framebuffer kms in its proper resolution and I have some basic
> graphics routines that allow me to output as desired to the screen, and
> NOTHING ELSE.

As you are "building from scratch", why not take a look at the
description of udev in the Linux From Scratch distro?  It should answer
all of these questions for you already.

Have you tried that?

greg k-h

Re: Some basic questions

[Frank W. Miller]

Thanks for the reply.  I did look at the LFS documentation.  It really
just talks about installing their tarball and doesn't say much about
what's happening under the hood.  I just looked at the LFS book, is
there some other LFS documentation that I should look at?  I am working
"from scratch" but I think even more from scratch than LFS.

Thanks!
FM


On Fri, 2011-08-12 at 17:34 -0700, Greg KH wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 05:59:03PM -0600, Frank W. Miller wrote:
> > 
> > Greetings,
> > 
> > I apologize if these questions seem trivial or are document somewhere
> > that I haven't searched as yet.
> > 
> > I'm essentially trying to build a new distro type.  I currently have
> > kernel 2.6.39.2 booting from a USB stick.  The kernel comes up using the
> > Intel framebuffer kms in its proper resolution and I have some basic
> > graphics routines that allow me to output as desired to the screen, and
> > NOTHING ELSE.
> 
> As you are "building from scratch", why not take a look at the
> description of udev in the Linux From Scratch distro?  It should answer
> all of these questions for you already.
> 
> Have you tried that?
> 
> greg k-h

Re: Some basic questions

[Allin Cottrell]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 1392 bytes --]

On Fri, 12 Aug 2011, Frank W. Miller wrote:

> My next step is to get udev going.  To that end, I've downloaded and
> studied to some extent release 172.  I'm using FC12 as my build machine
> (e.g. gcc 4.4.2).  This is what I think is supposed to happen, please
> correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.
>
> When I build udev, I do this:
>
> configure --enable-static
>
> This is to get the udev binaries to build without needing libraries.
> Then:
>
> make
>
> I get this:
>
>  CC     extras/input_id/input_id.o
> extras/input_id/input_id.c: In function ‘test_key’:
> extras/input_id/input_id.c:173: error: ‘BTN_TRIGGER_HAPPY’ undeclared

Your FC12 kernel headers are too old for building udev 172. I 
believe you'll need at least 2.6.34.

> Once I get the binaries built, I'll need to install them and the config
> files in the proper places in my USB filesystem correct?

Naturally. Though you can reorganize the directory structure if you 
wish via options to ./configure.

> Thanks in advance for any assistance on this.  I'd really like to keep
> this as simple as possible.  For example, its not clear to me what
> "extras" are and how to turn them off if they are not needed.

./configure --disable-hwdb --disable-introspection \
--disable-keymap

(and so on). See ./configure --help and
http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/development/chapter06/udev.html

Allin Cottrell

Re: Some basic questions

[Frank W. Miller]

Thanks Allin!  Very helpful, or at least, I'll let you know...  ;)

One question, I have the 2.6.39.2 kernel tree that I'm building for my
little project.  How do I point the udev build at the kernel headers in
that tree, e.g.:

/home/fwmiller/roadrunner/build/linux/include

where "linux" in this path is actually a sym link to a directory called
linux-2.6.29.2 in the same build/ directory?

Also, can I just do all the --disable-* options to configure?  Is that
the base implementation?

Thanks,
FM


On Fri, 2011-08-12 at 23:19 -0400, Allin Cottrell wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Aug 2011, Frank W. Miller wrote:
> 
> > My next step is to get udev going.  To that end, I've downloaded and
> > studied to some extent release 172.  I'm using FC12 as my build machine
> > (e.g. gcc 4.4.2).  This is what I think is supposed to happen, please
> > correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.
> >
> > When I build udev, I do this:
> >
> > configure --enable-static
> >
> > This is to get the udev binaries to build without needing libraries.
> > Then:
> >
> > make
> >
> > I get this:
> >
> >  CC     extras/input_id/input_id.o
> > extras/input_id/input_id.c: In function ‘test_key’:
> > extras/input_id/input_id.c:173: error: ‘BTN_TRIGGER_HAPPY’ undeclared
> 
> Your FC12 kernel headers are too old for building udev 172. I 
> believe you'll need at least 2.6.34.
> 
> > Once I get the binaries built, I'll need to install them and the config
> > files in the proper places in my USB filesystem correct?
> 
> Naturally. Though you can reorganize the directory structure if you 
> wish via options to ./configure.
> 
> > Thanks in advance for any assistance on this.  I'd really like to keep
> > this as simple as possible.  For example, its not clear to me what
> > "extras" are and how to turn them off if they are not needed.
> 
> ./configure --disable-hwdb --disable-introspection \
> --disable-keymap
> 
> (and so on). See ./configure --help and
> http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/development/chapter06/udev.html
> 
> Allin Cottrell

Re: Some basic questions

[John Lumby]

To install kernel headers from your own kernel tree:

  . first build them  -
     #  assuming current working dir is the top of your kernel build
INSTALL_HDR_PATH=$PWD/usr make headers_install
    should create a subdirectory path usr/include containing directories 
such as linux video sound asm asm-generic and others

   .  then cd to /usr/include and,  for each directory in 
<kernel>/usr/include,  first rename the one in /usr/include,  then copy 
(or symlink it if it will always be accessible) the one under the kernel 
tree.

On 08/12/11 23:33, Frank W. Miller wrote:
> Thanks Allin!  Very helpful, or at least, I'll let you know...  ;)
>
> One question, I have the 2.6.39.2 kernel tree that I'm building for my
> little project.  How do I point the udev build at the kernel headers in
> that tree, e.g.:
>
> /home/fwmiller/roadrunner/build/linux/include
>
> where "linux" in this path is actually a sym link to a directory called
> linux-2.6.29.2 in the same build/ directory?
>
> Also, can I just do all the --disable-* options to configure?  Is that
> the base implementation?
>
> Thanks,
> FM
>
>
> On Fri, 2011-08-12 at 23:19 -0400, Allin Cottrell wrote:
>> On Fri, 12 Aug 2011, Frank W. Miller wrote:
>>
>>> My next step is to get udev going.  To that end, I've downloaded and
>>> studied to some extent release 172.  I'm using FC12 as my build machine
>>> (e.g. gcc 4.4.2).  This is what I think is supposed to happen, please
>>> correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.
>>>
>>> When I build udev, I do this:
>>>
>>> configure --enable-static
>>>
>>> This is to get the udev binaries to build without needing libraries.
>>> Then:
>>>
>>> make
>>>
>>> I get this:
>>>
>>>   CC     extras/input_id/input_id.o
>>> extras/input_id/input_id.c: In function ‘test_key’:
>>> extras/input_id/input_id.c:173: error: ‘BTN_TRIGGER_HAPPY’ undeclared
>> Your FC12 kernel headers are too old for building udev 172. I
>> believe you'll need at least 2.6.34.
>>
>>> Once I get the binaries built, I'll need to install them and the config
>>> files in the proper places in my USB filesystem correct?
>> Naturally. Though you can reorganize the directory structure if you
>> wish via options to ./configure.
>>
>>> Thanks in advance for any assistance on this.  I'd really like to keep
>>> this as simple as possible.  For example, its not clear to me what
>>> "extras" are and how to turn them off if they are not needed.
>> ./configure --disable-hwdb --disable-introspection \
>> --disable-keymap
>>
>> (and so on). See ./configure --help and
>> http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/development/chapter06/udev.html
>>
>> Allin Cottrell
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-hotplug" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>
>

Re: Some basic questions

[Frank W. Miller]

Thanks for the reply.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't this essentially replace the kernel
header files in usr/include/ for the build machine with pointers to the
kernel headers for my target kernel?  I'm not sure this is a good way to
go about this.  Am I missing something?  It would be better if there was
some compile option for udev that pointed it at the desired kernel
header files, wherever they might be?

Thanks,
FM


On Sat, 2011-08-13 at 14:20 -0400, John Lumby wrote:
> To install kernel headers from your own kernel tree:
> 
>   . first build them  -
>      #  assuming current working dir is the top of your kernel build
> INSTALL_HDR_PATH=$PWD/usr make headers_install
>     should create a subdirectory path usr/include containing directories 
> such as linux video sound asm asm-generic and others
> 
>    .  then cd to /usr/include and,  for each directory in 
> <kernel>/usr/include,  first rename the one in /usr/include,  then copy 
> (or symlink it if it will always be accessible) the one under the kernel 
> tree.
> 
> On 08/12/11 23:33, Frank W. Miller wrote:
> > Thanks Allin!  Very helpful, or at least, I'll let you know...  ;)
> >
> > One question, I have the 2.6.39.2 kernel tree that I'm building for my
> > little project.  How do I point the udev build at the kernel headers in
> > that tree, e.g.:
> >
> > /home/fwmiller/roadrunner/build/linux/include
> >
> > where "linux" in this path is actually a sym link to a directory called
> > linux-2.6.29.2 in the same build/ directory?
> >
> > Also, can I just do all the --disable-* options to configure?  Is that
> > the base implementation?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > FM
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 2011-08-12 at 23:19 -0400, Allin Cottrell wrote:
> >> On Fri, 12 Aug 2011, Frank W. Miller wrote:
> >>
> >>> My next step is to get udev going.  To that end, I've downloaded and
> >>> studied to some extent release 172.  I'm using FC12 as my build machine
> >>> (e.g. gcc 4.4.2).  This is what I think is supposed to happen, please
> >>> correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.
> >>>
> >>> When I build udev, I do this:
> >>>
> >>> configure --enable-static
> >>>
> >>> This is to get the udev binaries to build without needing libraries.
> >>> Then:
> >>>
> >>> make
> >>>
> >>> I get this:
> >>>
> >>>   CC     extras/input_id/input_id.o
> >>> extras/input_id/input_id.c: In function ‘test_key’:
> >>> extras/input_id/input_id.c:173: error: ‘BTN_TRIGGER_HAPPY’ undeclared
> >> Your FC12 kernel headers are too old for building udev 172. I
> >> believe you'll need at least 2.6.34.
> >>
> >>> Once I get the binaries built, I'll need to install them and the config
> >>> files in the proper places in my USB filesystem correct?
> >> Naturally. Though you can reorganize the directory structure if you
> >> wish via options to ./configure.
> >>
> >>> Thanks in advance for any assistance on this.  I'd really like to keep
> >>> this as simple as possible.  For example, its not clear to me what
> >>> "extras" are and how to turn them off if they are not needed.
> >> ./configure --disable-hwdb --disable-introspection \
> >> --disable-keymap
> >>
> >> (and so on). See ./configure --help and
> >> http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/development/chapter06/udev.html
> >>
> >> Allin Cottrell
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-hotplug" in
> > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> > More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> >
> >
> 

Re: Some basic questions

[Frank W. Miller]

OK, I got the -145 version to build with pretty much everything
disabled, so I think just the base implementation.  The only binaries
that are showing up in the udev-145/udev directory are:

test-udev udevadm udevd

Now I'm going to copy these binaries to the /bin directory of my USB
filesystem and try to start udevd.

I don't want to use install, just cp, which means I'm not going to use
make install from the distro.  I'll need to copy some rules I suppose,
and there are a number of files in the rules directory.  I'm guessing I
don't need the rules from the distro directories.  If I copy the rules
from the rules.d directory only, will that be enough?

Thanks,
FM


On Sat, 2011-08-13 at 14:20 -0400, John Lumby wrote:
> To install kernel headers from your own kernel tree:
> 
>   . first build them  -
>      #  assuming current working dir is the top of your kernel build
> INSTALL_HDR_PATH=$PWD/usr make headers_install
>     should create a subdirectory path usr/include containing directories 
> such as linux video sound asm asm-generic and others
> 
>    .  then cd to /usr/include and,  for each directory in 
> <kernel>/usr/include,  first rename the one in /usr/include,  then copy 
> (or symlink it if it will always be accessible) the one under the kernel 
> tree.
> 
> On 08/12/11 23:33, Frank W. Miller wrote:
> > Thanks Allin!  Very helpful, or at least, I'll let you know...  ;)
> >
> > One question, I have the 2.6.39.2 kernel tree that I'm building for my
> > little project.  How do I point the udev build at the kernel headers in
> > that tree, e.g.:
> >
> > /home/fwmiller/roadrunner/build/linux/include
> >
> > where "linux" in this path is actually a sym link to a directory called
> > linux-2.6.29.2 in the same build/ directory?
> >
> > Also, can I just do all the --disable-* options to configure?  Is that
> > the base implementation?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > FM
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 2011-08-12 at 23:19 -0400, Allin Cottrell wrote:
> >> On Fri, 12 Aug 2011, Frank W. Miller wrote:
> >>
> >>> My next step is to get udev going.  To that end, I've downloaded and
> >>> studied to some extent release 172.  I'm using FC12 as my build machine
> >>> (e.g. gcc 4.4.2).  This is what I think is supposed to happen, please
> >>> correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.
> >>>
> >>> When I build udev, I do this:
> >>>
> >>> configure --enable-static
> >>>
> >>> This is to get the udev binaries to build without needing libraries.
> >>> Then:
> >>>
> >>> make
> >>>
> >>> I get this:
> >>>
> >>>   CC     extras/input_id/input_id.o
> >>> extras/input_id/input_id.c: In function ‘test_key’:
> >>> extras/input_id/input_id.c:173: error: ‘BTN_TRIGGER_HAPPY’ undeclared
> >> Your FC12 kernel headers are too old for building udev 172. I
> >> believe you'll need at least 2.6.34.
> >>
> >>> Once I get the binaries built, I'll need to install them and the config
> >>> files in the proper places in my USB filesystem correct?
> >> Naturally. Though you can reorganize the directory structure if you
> >> wish via options to ./configure.
> >>
> >>> Thanks in advance for any assistance on this.  I'd really like to keep
> >>> this as simple as possible.  For example, its not clear to me what
> >>> "extras" are and how to turn them off if they are not needed.
> >> ./configure --disable-hwdb --disable-introspection \
> >> --disable-keymap
> >>
> >> (and so on). See ./configure --help and
> >> http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/development/chapter06/udev.html
> >>
> >> Allin Cottrell
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-hotplug" in
> > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> > More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> >
> >
> 

Re: Some basic questions

[Allin Cottrell]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 3920 bytes --]

On Sat, 13 Aug 2011, Frank W. Miller wrote:

> Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't this essentially replace the kernel
> header files in usr/include/ for the build machine with pointers to the
> kernel headers for my target kernel?  I'm not sure this is a good way to
> go about this.

I think this thread is wearing out its welcome, since it's not 
particularly related to udev. But briefly: Yes, John Lumby's 
suggestion involves (temporarily) replacing the content of 
/usr/include/linux and friends on your build host with updated 
kernel headers. That's the option that occurred to me too. If you 
have a better idea, fine, but don't expect to find a simple 
./configure option in udev to do something as non-standard as what 
you're attempting.

Allin Cottrell

> On Sat, 2011-08-13 at 14:20 -0400, John Lumby wrote:
>> To install kernel headers from your own kernel tree:
>>
>>   . first build them  -
>>      #  assuming current working dir is the top of your kernel build
>> INSTALL_HDR_PATH=$PWD/usr make headers_install
>>     should create a subdirectory path usr/include containing directories
>> such as linux video sound asm asm-generic and others
>>
>>    .  then cd to /usr/include and,  for each directory in
>> <kernel>/usr/include,  first rename the one in /usr/include,  then copy
>> (or symlink it if it will always be accessible) the one under the kernel
>> tree.
>>
>> On 08/12/11 23:33, Frank W. Miller wrote:
>>> Thanks Allin!  Very helpful, or at least, I'll let you know...  ;)
>>>
>>> One question, I have the 2.6.39.2 kernel tree that I'm building for my
>>> little project.  How do I point the udev build at the kernel headers in
>>> that tree, e.g.:
>>>
>>> /home/fwmiller/roadrunner/build/linux/include
>>>
>>> where "linux" in this path is actually a sym link to a directory called
>>> linux-2.6.29.2 in the same build/ directory?
>>>
>>> Also, can I just do all the --disable-* options to configure?  Is that
>>> the base implementation?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> FM
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 2011-08-12 at 23:19 -0400, Allin Cottrell wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 12 Aug 2011, Frank W. Miller wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> My next step is to get udev going.  To that end, I've downloaded and
>>>>> studied to some extent release 172.  I'm using FC12 as my build machine
>>>>> (e.g. gcc 4.4.2).  This is what I think is supposed to happen, please
>>>>> correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I build udev, I do this:
>>>>>
>>>>> configure --enable-static
>>>>>
>>>>> This is to get the udev binaries to build without needing libraries.
>>>>> Then:
>>>>>
>>>>> make
>>>>>
>>>>> I get this:
>>>>>
>>>>>   CC     extras/input_id/input_id.o
>>>>> extras/input_id/input_id.c: In function ‘test_key’:
>>>>> extras/input_id/input_id.c:173: error: ‘BTN_TRIGGER_HAPPY’ undeclared
>>>> Your FC12 kernel headers are too old for building udev 172. I
>>>> believe you'll need at least 2.6.34.
>>>>
>>>>> Once I get the binaries built, I'll need to install them and the config
>>>>> files in the proper places in my USB filesystem correct?
>>>> Naturally. Though you can reorganize the directory structure if you
>>>> wish via options to ./configure.
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks in advance for any assistance on this.  I'd really like to keep
>>>>> this as simple as possible.  For example, its not clear to me what
>>>>> "extras" are and how to turn them off if they are not needed.
>>>> ./configure --disable-hwdb --disable-introspection \
>>>> --disable-keymap
>>>>
>>>> (and so on). See ./configure --help and
>>>> http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/development/chapter06/udev.html
>>>>
>>>> Allin Cottrell
>>>
>>> --
>>> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-hotplug" in
>>> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
>>> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>

-- 
Allin Cottrell
Department of Economics
Wake Forest University

some basic questions

[Redeeman]

i am wondering about a few things. i am seriously thinking of change to
reiserfs. i experience bad stuff happen to fat32 often, and i have got
tired of it. i have a kernel with version 3.6 of reiserfs.

will it be possible to convert to reiserfs4?
is it possible to defragment a partition with reiserfs (or will it be in
version 4?)
is it possible to undelete stuff?
is it the correct choice for my use? (mp3, movies, cd images)
is there anything i should know?

thanks, and have a nice day

-- 
Regards, Redeeman
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail 
/\                        - against microsoft attachments

Re: some basic questions

[Redeeman]

nobody seems to answer :(

On Mon, 2003-11-03 at 18:26, Redeeman wrote:
> i am wondering about a few things. i am seriously thinking of change to
> reiserfs. i experience bad stuff happen to fat32 often, and i have got
> tired of it. i have a kernel with version 3.6 of reiserfs.
> 
> will it be possible to convert to reiserfs4?
> is it possible to defragment a partition with reiserfs (or will it be in
> version 4?)
> is it possible to undelete stuff?
> is it the correct choice for my use? (mp3, movies, cd images)
> is there anything i should know?
> 
> thanks, and have a nice day
-- 
Regards, Redeeman
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail 
/\                        - against microsoft attachments

Re: some basic questions

[Carl-Daniel Hailfinger]

Redeeman wrote:
> nobody seems to answer :(
> 
> On Mon, 2003-11-03 at 18:26, Redeeman wrote:
> 
>>i am wondering about a few things. i am seriously thinking of change to
>>reiserfs. i experience bad stuff happen to fat32 often, and i have got
>>tired of it. i have a kernel with version 3.6 of reiserfs.
>>
>>will it be possible to convert to reiserfs4?

Not at this time. Actually reiserfs 3.6 and reiser4 are two totally
different entities, so it's highly unlikely.

>>is it possible to defragment a partition with reiserfs (or will it be in
>>version 4?)

backup with tar, delete everything, restore backup.

>>is it possible to undelete stuff?

no.

>>is it the correct choice for my use? (mp3, movies, cd images)

should be.

>>is there anything i should know?

Yes. reiser4 is not yet stable. This will not affect you if you use
reiserfs 3.6

>>thanks, and have a nice day

Regards,
Carl-Daniel
-- 
http://www.hailfinger.org/

Re: some basic questions

[Redeeman]

you say reiserfs and reiser4 is two diffrent things, is reiser4 a
totally new filesystem?

On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 16:11, Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote:
> Redeeman wrote:
> > nobody seems to answer :(
> > 
> > On Mon, 2003-11-03 at 18:26, Redeeman wrote:
> > 
> >>i am wondering about a few things. i am seriously thinking of change to
> >>reiserfs. i experience bad stuff happen to fat32 often, and i have got
> >>tired of it. i have a kernel with version 3.6 of reiserfs.
> >>
> >>will it be possible to convert to reiserfs4?
> 
> Not at this time. Actually reiserfs 3.6 and reiser4 are two totally
> different entities, so it's highly unlikely.
> 
> >>is it possible to defragment a partition with reiserfs (or will it be in
> >>version 4?)
> 
> backup with tar, delete everything, restore backup.
> 
> >>is it possible to undelete stuff?
> 
> no.
> 
> >>is it the correct choice for my use? (mp3, movies, cd images)
> 
> should be.
> 
> >>is there anything i should know?
> 
> Yes. reiser4 is not yet stable. This will not affect you if you use
> reiserfs 3.6
> 
> >>thanks, and have a nice day
> 
> Regards,
> Carl-Daniel
-- 
Regards, Redeeman
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail 
/\                        - against microsoft attachments

Re: some basic questions

[Nikita Danilov]

Redeeman writes:
 > you say reiserfs and reiser4 is two diffrent things, is reiser4 a
 > totally new filesystem?

It was re-written from the scratch. But it is based on the same main
design principles as reiserfs. It is different file system from the user
point of view (one cannot mount reiser4 as reiserfs and visa versa).

 > 
 > On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 16:11, Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote:
 > > Redeeman wrote:
 > > > nobody seems to answer :(
 > > > 
 > > > On Mon, 2003-11-03 at 18:26, Redeeman wrote:
 > > > 
 > > >>i am wondering about a few things. i am seriously thinking of change to
 > > >>reiserfs. i experience bad stuff happen to fat32 often, and i have got
 > > >>tired of it. i have a kernel with version 3.6 of reiserfs.
 > > >>
 > > >>will it be possible to convert to reiserfs4?
 > > 
 > > Not at this time. Actually reiserfs 3.6 and reiser4 are two totally
 > > different entities, so it's highly unlikely.
 > > 
 > > >>is it possible to defragment a partition with reiserfs (or will it be in
 > > >>version 4?)
 > > 
 > > backup with tar, delete everything, restore backup.
 > > 
 > > >>is it possible to undelete stuff?
 > > 
 > > no.
 > > 
 > > >>is it the correct choice for my use? (mp3, movies, cd images)
 > > 
 > > should be.
 > > 
 > > >>is there anything i should know?
 > > 
 > > Yes. reiser4 is not yet stable. This will not affect you if you use
 > > reiserfs 3.6
 > > 
 > > >>thanks, and have a nice day
 > > 
 > > Regards,
 > > Carl-Daniel

Nikita.

Re: some basic questions

[Redeeman]

ok, i got some more questions then :-)

will reiser4 be the most secure filesystem if the power dies, because i
live in denmark, and not in the city, so the power dies quite often, and
i want my data to be secure :)

and a question about the filesystem itself:
i read its a atomic filesystem, and that it doesent work as other
filesystems, isnt it something about that it doesent have a fixed
cluster size? so that you use alot more of the hd, and faster stuff :-)

On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 16:48, Nikita Danilov wrote:
> Redeeman writes:
>  > you say reiserfs and reiser4 is two diffrent things, is reiser4 a
>  > totally new filesystem?
> 
> It was re-written from the scratch. But it is based on the same main
> design principles as reiserfs. It is different file system from the user
> point of view (one cannot mount reiser4 as reiserfs and visa versa).
> 
>  > 
>  > On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 16:11, Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote:
>  > > Redeeman wrote:
>  > > > nobody seems to answer :(
>  > > > 
>  > > > On Mon, 2003-11-03 at 18:26, Redeeman wrote:
>  > > > 
>  > > >>i am wondering about a few things. i am seriously thinking of change to
>  > > >>reiserfs. i experience bad stuff happen to fat32 often, and i have got
>  > > >>tired of it. i have a kernel with version 3.6 of reiserfs.
>  > > >>
>  > > >>will it be possible to convert to reiserfs4?
>  > > 
>  > > Not at this time. Actually reiserfs 3.6 and reiser4 are two totally
>  > > different entities, so it's highly unlikely.
>  > > 
>  > > >>is it possible to defragment a partition with reiserfs (or will it be in
>  > > >>version 4?)
>  > > 
>  > > backup with tar, delete everything, restore backup.
>  > > 
>  > > >>is it possible to undelete stuff?
>  > > 
>  > > no.
>  > > 
>  > > >>is it the correct choice for my use? (mp3, movies, cd images)
>  > > 
>  > > should be.
>  > > 
>  > > >>is there anything i should know?
>  > > 
>  > > Yes. reiser4 is not yet stable. This will not affect you if you use
>  > > reiserfs 3.6
>  > > 
>  > > >>thanks, and have a nice day
>  > > 
>  > > Regards,
>  > > Carl-Daniel
> 
> Nikita.
-- 
Regards, Redeeman
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail 
/\                        - against microsoft attachments

Re: some basic questions

[Redeeman]

and sorry that i send all these messages, another thing (and  last
thing) is, what kernel contains reiser4?

On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 16:52, Redeeman wrote:
> ok, i got some more questions then :-)
> 
> will reiser4 be the most secure filesystem if the power dies, because i
> live in denmark, and not in the city, so the power dies quite often, and
> i want my data to be secure :)
> 
> and a question about the filesystem itself:
> i read its a atomic filesystem, and that it doesent work as other
> filesystems, isnt it something about that it doesent have a fixed
> cluster size? so that you use alot more of the hd, and faster stuff :-)
> 
> On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 16:48, Nikita Danilov wrote:
> > Redeeman writes:
> >  > you say reiserfs and reiser4 is two diffrent things, is reiser4 a
> >  > totally new filesystem?
> > 
> > It was re-written from the scratch. But it is based on the same main
> > design principles as reiserfs. It is different file system from the user
> > point of view (one cannot mount reiser4 as reiserfs and visa versa).
> > 
> >  > 
> >  > On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 16:11, Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote:
> >  > > Redeeman wrote:
> >  > > > nobody seems to answer :(
> >  > > > 
> >  > > > On Mon, 2003-11-03 at 18:26, Redeeman wrote:
> >  > > > 
> >  > > >>i am wondering about a few things. i am seriously thinking of change to
> >  > > >>reiserfs. i experience bad stuff happen to fat32 often, and i have got
> >  > > >>tired of it. i have a kernel with version 3.6 of reiserfs.
> >  > > >>
> >  > > >>will it be possible to convert to reiserfs4?
> >  > > 
> >  > > Not at this time. Actually reiserfs 3.6 and reiser4 are two totally
> >  > > different entities, so it's highly unlikely.
> >  > > 
> >  > > >>is it possible to defragment a partition with reiserfs (or will it be in
> >  > > >>version 4?)
> >  > > 
> >  > > backup with tar, delete everything, restore backup.
> >  > > 
> >  > > >>is it possible to undelete stuff?
> >  > > 
> >  > > no.
> >  > > 
> >  > > >>is it the correct choice for my use? (mp3, movies, cd images)
> >  > > 
> >  > > should be.
> >  > > 
> >  > > >>is there anything i should know?
> >  > > 
> >  > > Yes. reiser4 is not yet stable. This will not affect you if you use
> >  > > reiserfs 3.6
> >  > > 
> >  > > >>thanks, and have a nice day
> >  > > 
> >  > > Regards,
> >  > > Carl-Daniel
> > 
> > Nikita.
-- 
Regards, Redeeman
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail 
/\                        - against microsoft attachments

Re: some basic questions

[Nikita Danilov]

Redeeman writes:
 > and sorry that i send all these messages, another thing (and  last
 > thing) is, what kernel contains reiser4?

reiser4 is only available as a set of patches for now. Latest are at
http://namesys.com/snapshots/2003.10.17/. Please read READ.ME,
especially "WARNING" bit.

 > 
 > On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 16:52, Redeeman wrote:
 > > ok, i got some more questions then :-)
 > > 
 > > will reiser4 be the most secure filesystem if the power dies, because i
 > > live in denmark, and not in the city, so the power dies quite often, and
 > > i want my data to be secure :)
 > > 
 > > and a question about the filesystem itself:
 > > i read its a atomic filesystem, and that it doesent work as other
 > > filesystems, isnt it something about that it doesent have a fixed
 > > cluster size? so that you use alot more of the hd, and faster stuff :-)
 > > 
 > > On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 16:48, Nikita Danilov wrote:
 > > > Redeeman writes:
 > > >  > you say reiserfs and reiser4 is two diffrent things, is reiser4 a
 > > >  > totally new filesystem?
 > > > 
 > > > It was re-written from the scratch. But it is based on the same main
 > > > design principles as reiserfs. It is different file system from the user
 > > > point of view (one cannot mount reiser4 as reiserfs and visa versa).
 > > > 
 > > >  > 
 > > >  > On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 16:11, Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote:
 > > >  > > Redeeman wrote:
 > > >  > > > nobody seems to answer :(
 > > >  > > > 
 > > >  > > > On Mon, 2003-11-03 at 18:26, Redeeman wrote:
 > > >  > > > 
 > > >  > > >>i am wondering about a few things. i am seriously thinking of change to
 > > >  > > >>reiserfs. i experience bad stuff happen to fat32 often, and i have got
 > > >  > > >>tired of it. i have a kernel with version 3.6 of reiserfs.
 > > >  > > >>
 > > >  > > >>will it be possible to convert to reiserfs4?
 > > >  > > 
 > > >  > > Not at this time. Actually reiserfs 3.6 and reiser4 are two totally
 > > >  > > different entities, so it's highly unlikely.
 > > >  > > 
 > > >  > > >>is it possible to defragment a partition with reiserfs (or will it be in
 > > >  > > >>version 4?)
 > > >  > > 
 > > >  > > backup with tar, delete everything, restore backup.
 > > >  > > 
 > > >  > > >>is it possible to undelete stuff?
 > > >  > > 
 > > >  > > no.
 > > >  > > 
 > > >  > > >>is it the correct choice for my use? (mp3, movies, cd images)
 > > >  > > 
 > > >  > > should be.
 > > >  > > 
 > > >  > > >>is there anything i should know?
 > > >  > > 
 > > >  > > Yes. reiser4 is not yet stable. This will not affect you if you use
 > > >  > > reiserfs 3.6
 > > >  > > 
 > > >  > > >>thanks, and have a nice day
 > > >  > > 
 > > >  > > Regards,
 > > >  > > Carl-Daniel
 > > > 

Nikita.

Re: some basic questions

[Nikita Danilov]

Redeeman writes:
 > ok, i got some more questions then :-)
 > 
 > will reiser4 be the most secure filesystem if the power dies, because i

Yes, it should recover from this.

 > live in denmark, and not in the city, so the power dies quite often, and
 > i want my data to be secure :)

Do backups, whatever file systems are you using.

 > 
 > and a question about the filesystem itself:
 > i read its a atomic filesystem, and that it doesent work as other
 > filesystems, isnt it something about that it doesent have a fixed
 > cluster size? so that you use alot more of the hd, and faster stuff :-)

It is faster than ext* in many cases and uses less disk space for the
same set of user files.

 > 
 > On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 16:48, Nikita Danilov wrote:
 > > Redeeman writes:
 > >  > you say reiserfs and reiser4 is two diffrent things, is reiser4 a
 > >  > totally new filesystem?
 > > 
 > > It was re-written from the scratch. But it is based on the same main
 > > design principles as reiserfs. It is different file system from the user
 > > point of view (one cannot mount reiser4 as reiserfs and visa versa).
 > > 
 > >  > 
 > >  > On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 16:11, Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote:
 > >  > > Redeeman wrote:
 > >  > > > nobody seems to answer :(
 > >  > > > 
 > >  > > > On Mon, 2003-11-03 at 18:26, Redeeman wrote:
 > >  > > > 
 > >  > > >>i am wondering about a few things. i am seriously thinking of change to
 > >  > > >>reiserfs. i experience bad stuff happen to fat32 often, and i have got
 > >  > > >>tired of it. i have a kernel with version 3.6 of reiserfs.
 > >  > > >>
 > >  > > >>will it be possible to convert to reiserfs4?
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > Not at this time. Actually reiserfs 3.6 and reiser4 are two totally
 > >  > > different entities, so it's highly unlikely.
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > >>is it possible to defragment a partition with reiserfs (or will it be in
 > >  > > >>version 4?)
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > backup with tar, delete everything, restore backup.
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > >>is it possible to undelete stuff?
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > no.
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > >>is it the correct choice for my use? (mp3, movies, cd images)
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > should be.
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > >>is there anything i should know?
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > Yes. reiser4 is not yet stable. This will not affect you if you use
 > >  > > reiserfs 3.6
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > >>thanks, and have a nice day
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > Regards,
 > >  > > Carl-Daniel
 > > 

Nikita.

Re: some basic questions

[Bennett Todd]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 720 bytes --]

2003-11-05T10:52:40 Redeeman:
> will reiser4 be the most secure filesystem if the power dies,
> because i live in denmark, and not in the city, so the power dies
> quite often, and i want my data to be secure :)

Once Reiser4 is stable and mature, it should be on the short list of
the very best filesystems in this regard.

However, if you want something today, I recommend ext3.

Reiserfs4 should, we hope, eat its lunch eventually. But ext3
performs quite well, for the sort of simple stuff you want to do it
should be fine (and vastly better than vfat). And ext3 right now has
pretty mature and stable journaling, that in my experience leaves it
effectively crashproof. Or at least highly crash-resistent.

-Bennett

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: some basic questions

[Nikita Danilov]

Redeeman writes:
 > nobody seems to answer :(

Sorry for delay.

 > 
 > On Mon, 2003-11-03 at 18:26, Redeeman wrote:
 > > i am wondering about a few things. i am seriously thinking of change to
 > > reiserfs. i experience bad stuff happen to fat32 often, and i have got
 > > tired of it. i have a kernel with version 3.6 of reiserfs.
 > > 
 > > will it be possible to convert to reiserfs4?

There is no current plans for reiserfs->reiser4 convertor. One can use
tar, or this http://tzukanov.narod.ru/convertfs/ (universal conversion
utility written by some smart person).

 > > is it possible to defragment a partition with reiserfs (or will it be in
 > > version 4?)

There is de-fragmentation utility for reiserfs, but there is for
reiser4 (repacker).

 > > is it possible to undelete stuff?

Not yet (neither in reiserfs nor in reiser4).

 > > is it the correct choice for my use? (mp3, movies, cd images)

I think so.

 > > is there anything i should know?

Reiser4 is still in the debugging, don't use it in the
production. Reiserfs, on the other hand, is quite stable.

 > > 
 > > thanks, and have a nice day

Nikita.

 > -- 
 > Regards, Redeeman

Re: some basic questions

[Hubert Chan]

>>>>> "Redeeman" == Redeeman  <redeeman@metanurb.dk> writes:

Redeeman> nobody seems to answer :(
Redeeman> On Mon, 2003-11-03 at 18:26, Redeeman wrote:

[...]

Redeeman> is there anything i should know?

Reiserfs (v3) only does metadata journalling by default.  That means
that the filesystem will always be consistent, but you may still get
data loss.  In order to make sure you don't have any data loss, you
should use Chris Mason's data logging patches[1], and add either
"data=ordered" or "data=logging" to your filesystem options.  (Chris
said that data=ordered would be default eventually, but I'm not sure if
that has happened yet.)

[1] ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/people/mason/patches/data-logging/

-- 
Hubert Chan <hubert@uhoreg.ca> - http://www.uhoreg.ca/
PGP/GnuPG key: 1024D/124B61FA
Fingerprint: 96C5 012F 5F74 A5F7 1FF7  5291 AF29 C719 124B 61FA
Key available at wwwkeys.pgp.net.   Encrypted e-mail preferred.

Re: some basic questions

[Redeeman]

the reiserfs test partition i have is version 3.6

On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 17:47, Hubert Chan wrote:
> >>>>> "Redeeman" == Redeeman  <redeeman@metanurb.dk> writes:
> 
> Redeeman> nobody seems to answer :(
> Redeeman> On Mon, 2003-11-03 at 18:26, Redeeman wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> Redeeman> is there anything i should know?
> 
> Reiserfs (v3) only does metadata journalling by default.  That means
> that the filesystem will always be consistent, but you may still get
> data loss.  In order to make sure you don't have any data loss, you
> should use Chris Mason's data logging patches[1], and add either
> "data=ordered" or "data=logging" to your filesystem options.  (Chris
> said that data=ordered would be default eventually, but I'm not sure if
> that has happened yet.)
> 
> [1] ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/people/mason/patches/data-logging/
-- 
Regards, Redeeman
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Re: some basic questions

[Hubert Chan]

>>>>> "Redeeman" == Redeeman  <redeeman@metanurb.dk> writes:

Redeeman> the reiserfs test partition i have is version 3.6

Yes.  3.6 does not have data logging.  Chris's patches are supposed to
be merged into the main Linux tree with data=ordered as default
eventually, but I do not think this has happened yet.

Reiser4, AFAIK, does not have the same problem.  Everything should be
atomic in Reiser4.

-- 
Hubert Chan <hubert@uhoreg.ca> - http://www.uhoreg.ca/
PGP/GnuPG key: 1024D/124B61FA
Fingerprint: 96C5 012F 5F74 A5F7 1FF7  5291 AF29 C719 124B 61FA
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