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From: Larry McVoy <lm@bitmover.com>
To: David Lang <david.lang@digitalinsight.com>
Cc: Robert White <rwhite@casabyte.com>,
	Timothy Miller <miller@techsource.com>,
	David Woodhouse <dwmw2@infradead.org>,
	Larry McVoy <lm@bitmover.com>,
	Werner Almesberger <wa@almesberger.net>,
	Stephan von Krawczynski <skraw@ithnet.com>,
	miquels@cistron-office.nl, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Troll Tech [was Re: Sco vs. IBM]
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 18:09:36 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20030626010936.GA17417@work.bitmover.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306251718120.1870-100000@dlang.diginsite.com>

On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 05:27:42PM -0700, David Lang wrote:
> Robert, nobody is disagreeing with this part of the discussion, that I
> hear Larry saying is that this process isn't producing innovations, it is
> almost exclusivly producing copies.
> 
> the companies doing propriatatry work are doing the innovation and the
> fact that their ideas get copied quickly is reducing/eliminating their
> return on investment and is killing them (some slowly some quickly)
> 
> one big reason why innovation is so much more expensive then copying is
> that when you are innovating you spend a lot of time going down dead-ends,
> you have to cover all that time spent and thrown away in the cost of the
> product that you produce. when you are copying you get to avoid a lot of
> these dead-ends becouse you know what the final product looks like, it's
> much easier to work towards a known goal then to work towards something
> that you think will work.
> 
> Then Larry asks the question 'what will we do if we kill off the companies
> that are paying people to do this innovation and there isn't any more
> software to copy'
> 
> David Lang

Perfect summary.  Thanks.  I know my point of view is somewhat extreme
but I've always done that.  One of the things I've learned is to ignore
small adjustments to what is going on right now, look for the asymptote.
Where are we going if we ignore the next 10 years and look out beyond
that?  So looking at the place where free software has killed off their
"hosts" isn't a near term event but it is a fairly likely long term event.
If the free software doesn't start figuring out how to backfill the
development efforts which produce new things, the future looks like a
very dull gray sort of world where all the programmers are the moral
equivalents of today's COBOL programmers.  Not a place I want to be,
dunno about you.
-- 
---
Larry McVoy              lm at bitmover.com          http://www.bitmover.com/lm

  reply	other threads:[~2003-06-26  0:58 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 224+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-05-30  8:04 SCO's claims seem empty Martin List-Petersen
2003-05-30 13:01 ` Paul Rolland
2003-05-30 20:20   ` Mark Mielke
2003-05-31 23:06   ` brian
2003-06-01  7:56     ` Paul Rolland
2003-06-01  9:22       ` Lionel Elie Mamane
2003-06-01  9:38         ` Markus Plail
2003-06-01  9:59           ` Adrian Bunk
2003-06-01  9:40         ` Riley Williams
2003-06-01 10:00           ` Michael Frank
2003-06-02  0:03           ` Horst von Brand
2003-06-01  9:40         ` Nicolas Vollmar
2003-06-01  9:58           ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-06-01  9:55         ` Adrian Bunk
2003-06-01  9:56         ` Michael Frank
2003-06-01 12:34           ` Paul Rolland
2003-06-01 12:52       ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-06-02  0:15       ` Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-02  1:19         ` Horst von Brand
2003-06-02 11:10           ` uaca
2003-06-02 11:24             ` Stefan Smietanowski
2003-06-06 12:31               ` Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-06 15:13                 ` Alan Cox
2003-06-06 16:22                   ` Paul Rolland
2003-06-06 17:20                     ` Richard B. Johnson
     [not found]                     ` <5.2.0.9.2.20030607044649.00cd4590@pop.gmx.net>
2003-06-18 17:36                       ` Sco vs. IBM Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-18 17:58                         ` Luigi Rosa
2003-06-18 19:07                           ` James Simmons
2003-06-18 19:19                             ` Rick Franchuk
2003-06-18 19:39                             ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-06-18 19:53                               ` Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-18 20:28                                 ` Tom Diehl
2003-06-18 21:04                                   ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-06-19  0:20                           ` Werner Almesberger
2003-06-19 11:04                             ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-06-19 12:00                               ` Magnus Solvang
2003-06-19 12:45                                 ` jdow
2003-06-19 12:57                                   ` Magnus Solvang
2003-06-19 13:03                                     ` Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-19 13:14                                       ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-19 13:29                                         ` Thorsten Körner
2003-06-19 23:39                                           ` jdow
2003-06-19 14:14                                         ` Adrian Bunk
2003-06-19 16:34                                           ` Miquel van Smoorenburg
2003-06-19 16:59                                             ` Troll Tech [was Re: Sco vs. IBM] Larry McVoy
2003-06-19 17:13                                               ` ismail (cartman) donmez
2003-06-20  3:12                                               ` [OT] " Werner Almesberger
2003-06-20 10:09                                                 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-20 14:24                                                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 14:30                                                     ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 14:59                                                       ` Michael Poole
2003-06-20 15:34                                                         ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 15:50                                                           ` Lawrence Walton
2003-06-20 16:02                                                             ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 16:13                                                               ` Jeff Garzik
2003-06-20 16:33                                                                 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-21  1:31                                                                   ` Werner Almesberger
2003-06-21 12:20                                                                   ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-21 13:38                                                                     ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-21 14:10                                                                       ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-21 17:05                                                                         ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-06-21 17:54                                                                           ` David Weinehall
2003-06-23  8:54                                                                       ` David Woodhouse
2003-06-23 13:22                                                                         ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 13:32                                                                           ` David Woodhouse
2003-06-23 13:37                                                                             ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 14:04                                                                               ` David Woodhouse
2003-06-23 14:09                                                                                 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 14:26                                                                                   ` David Woodhouse
2003-06-24  9:51                                                                                   ` David Blomber
2003-06-23 13:54                                                                           ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2003-06-23 13:58                                                                             ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 15:34                                                                               ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2003-06-23 15:40                                                                                 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 16:13                                                                                 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-06-23 14:30                                                                           ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-06-23 15:06                                                                             ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 15:32                                                                               ` David Woodhouse
2003-06-23 15:39                                                                                 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 15:59                                                                                   ` Alan Cox
2003-06-23 16:13                                                                                   ` David Woodhouse
2003-06-26 17:45                                                                                   ` Adrian Bunk
2003-06-26 18:40                                                                                     ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26 19:10                                                                                       ` David Weinehall
2003-06-26 19:13                                                                                         ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-27 12:51                                                                                       ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-23 15:43                                                                               ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-23 15:59                                                                                 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 16:36                                                                                   ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-23 19:16                                                                                   ` Werner Almesberger
2003-06-23 16:02                                                                               ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-06-23 16:11                                                                               ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-06-23 16:16                                                                                 ` Alan Cox
2003-06-23 16:35                                                                                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-24 22:29                                                                               ` Timothy Miller
2003-06-24 18:18                                                                 ` Timothy Miller
2003-06-20 17:02                                                           ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-20 23:27                                                           ` Paul Mackerras
2003-06-20 16:41                                                       ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-20 16:45                                                         ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 19:35                                                           ` John Alvord
2003-06-21 13:46                                                           ` Paul Jakma
2003-06-23 12:23                                                             ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-20 14:44                                                     ` Nick LeRoy
2003-06-20 15:17                                                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 15:49                                                         ` Nick LeRoy
2003-06-20 16:58                                                         ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-20 17:01                                                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 17:21                                                             ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-20 15:18                                                     ` Werner Almesberger
2003-06-20 15:24                                                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 15:57                                                         ` Jeff Garzik
2003-06-23 19:30                                                         ` Werner Almesberger
2003-06-25  0:31                                                         ` Robert White
2003-06-25  1:21                                                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-25  3:35                                                             ` Werner Almesberger
2003-06-25  3:37                                                               ` Werner Almesberger
     [not found]                                                             ` <PEEPIDHAKMCGHDBJLHKGKECCDBAA.rwhite@casabyte.com>
2003-06-25  3:49                                                               ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-25 10:11                                                                 ` Mike Galbraith
2003-06-25 11:32                                                                 ` David Woodhouse
2003-06-25 22:47                                                                   ` Timothy Miller
2003-06-26  0:07                                                                     ` Robert White
2003-06-26  0:27                                                                       ` David Lang
2003-06-26  1:09                                                                         ` Larry McVoy [this message]
2003-06-26  3:29                                                                           ` Robert White
2003-06-26 13:44                                                                             ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-26  7:18                                                                           ` David Schwartz
2003-06-26 11:20                                                                           ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-26  3:24                                                                         ` Paul Jakma
2003-06-26 11:20                                                                         ` Daniel Phillips
2003-06-26 13:54                                                                         ` Horst von Brand
2003-06-26 22:34                                                                       ` Timothy Miller
2003-06-26 22:55                                                                         ` Robert White
2003-06-25 20:35                                                                 ` Robert White
2003-06-25 21:09                                                                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-25 23:05                                                                     ` David Schwartz
2003-06-26  1:14                                                                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26  2:45                                                                         ` David Schwartz
2003-06-26  3:16                                                                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26  3:38                                                                         ` Robert White
2003-06-26  3:50                                                                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26 12:20                                                                         ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-06-26 14:45                                                                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26 15:16                                                                             ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-06-26 22:49                                                                       ` Timothy Miller
2003-06-27  1:17                                                                         ` David Schwartz
2003-06-27  1:24                                                                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26 10:50                                                                     ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-26 20:41                                                                       ` Robert White
2003-06-26 20:50                                                                         ` David Lang
2003-06-26 21:02                                                                           ` Robert White
2003-06-26 23:45                                                                             ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-27  0:14                                                                               ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-27  0:24                                                                                 ` Davide Libenzi
2003-06-27  0:57                                                                               ` Robert White
2003-06-27 11:40                                                                                 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-30 18:20                                                                                 ` Timothy Miller
2003-06-26 20:52                                                                         ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26 21:39                                                                           ` Robert White
2003-06-26 22:48                                                                             ` John Alvord
2003-06-26 21:50                                                                           ` Robert White
2003-06-27 11:00                                                                           ` Alan Cox
2003-06-25 21:27                                                             ` Timothy Miller
2003-06-21 12:28                                                       ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-20 15:46                                                     ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-20 17:31                                                       ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-06-21  7:37                                                       ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-06-21 12:34                                                         ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-21 12:55                                                           ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-06-21 13:06                                                             ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-21 13:11                                                             ` Matthias Schniedermeyer
2003-06-23 12:16                                                             ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-23 12:44                                                               ` Alan Cox
2003-06-23 13:05                                                                 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-20 16:27                                                     ` Helge Hafting
2003-06-21  7:50                                                       ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-06-21 21:49                                                         ` [OT] Troll Tech Jan Rychter
2003-06-21 22:02                                                           ` Russell King
2003-06-22  1:47                                                           ` Horst von Brand
2003-06-22 14:41                                                             ` Daniel Phillips
2003-06-22  9:24                                                           ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2003-06-23 13:06                                                         ` [OT] Re: Troll Tech [was Re: Sco vs. IBM] Krzysztof Halasa
2003-06-20 19:36                                                     ` Greg KH
2003-06-20 20:12                                                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-21  0:04                                                     ` Frank Cusack
2003-06-21  0:46                                                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-21  8:01                                                   ` Martin Diehl
2003-06-21 11:39                                                     ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-21 11:53                                                       ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-06-21 12:08                                                         ` Andrey Panin
2003-06-21 19:03                                                   ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-06-21 19:54                                                     ` Michael Poole
2003-06-21 22:13                                                     ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-22  1:12                                                       ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-06-22 10:30                                                         ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-23  2:00                                                     ` Werner Almesberger
2003-06-19 20:54                                             ` Sco vs. IBM Robin Rosenberg
2003-06-21  8:03                                             ` Holger Freyther
2003-06-21  8:12                                               ` Martin Diehl
2003-06-19 12:08                               ` Thorsten Körner
2003-06-19 14:59                               ` Bruce Ferrell
     [not found]                         ` <3EF0ABB8.40007@coyotegulch.com>
2003-06-18 18:17                           ` Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-19  6:54                             ` Dominik Kubla
2003-06-18 18:37                         ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-06-18 21:43                         ` Grzegorz Jaskiewicz
2003-06-06 22:17                   ` SCO's claims seem empty Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-06 22:33                   ` Rob Landley
2003-06-12 10:20                   ` Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-02 11:39             ` Marcus Metzler
2003-06-03  0:42           ` Raimundo Bilbao
2003-05-30 21:16 ` SCO's claims seem empty - Open Source Initiative Paper by Eric Raymond Piet Delaney
     [not found] <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306201101240.3705-100000@coffee.psychology.mcmaster.ca>
2003-06-20 15:09 ` [OT] Re: Troll Tech [was Re: Sco vs. IBM] Nick LeRoy
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-06-20 17:12 Watson, Craig
2003-06-20 17:38 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-20 17:48 Michael Kalus
2003-06-20 20:28 ` Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-20 20:32 Michael Kalus
2003-06-20 21:04 Tom Lord
2003-06-21  1:22 marcelo
2003-06-26 22:05 Mudama, Eric
2003-06-26 22:19 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26 22:21 ` Robert White
2003-06-27 15:08 Watson, Craig
2003-06-27 23:15 ` Robert White

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