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From: Scott Robert Ladd <coyote@coyotegulch.com>
To: Stephan von Krawczynski <skraw@ithnet.com>
Cc: wa@almesberger.net, lm@work.bitmover.com,
	miquels@cistron-office.nl, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Troll Tech [was Re: Sco vs. IBM]
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 21:12:41 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3EF50289.8000700@coyotegulch.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20030622001322.16c5c458.skraw@ithnet.com>

Stephan von Krawczynski wrote:
> Scott Robert Ladd <coyote@coyotegulch.com> wrote:
>>A very technocratic view, to be sure. Source code is no guranatee of 
>>future portability or viability; for the vast, vast majority of users -- 
>>we do care about those, don't we? -- source code is useless.
> 
> I doubt that. You are probably right with your exact statement, meaning that
> the _user_ cannot make use of the available source code himself (though the
> only reason why is that he plays user and refuses to learn anything :-)

While I subscribe to the theory that specialization is for insects (ala 
Heinlein), I also recognize that no one can know everything. Having 
tried to be a universalist, I'm somewhat familiar with the limitations 
of time over genius; while it is certainly possible for me to perform 
surgery, for example, I would much rather have a trained professional do it.

Just because someone is not a programmer does not make them lazy. Most 
users have other tasks at hand; in my case, I would much rather my 
surgeon refine his skills the the scapel, than have him waste time 
writing his own diagnostic software.

> the manpower and brain invested in creation of this open source code is not
> lost in space. Someone with brain and time can pick it up and revive it at any
> given time. And this is a very big advantage in comparison to closed source
> which simply vanishes with its producing company - and there already have been
> quite a few of those.

I most certainly agree. Knowledge is built on knowledge, and if a Homo 
erectus had patented the flaked stone tool, we would all still be living 
in caves.

Of course, not everyone is capable of creating a sharp edge by banging 
the rocks together. And that's why different people do different things.

> So even if your statement looks correct in micro-economics, it is completely
> wrong in macro-economics. As Larry already pointed out in another post software
> development is often expensive. But it is only expensive if every company has
> to re-invent the wheel.
 >
 > If you can simply use the wheel and go on producing a
 > car "on top" of it, you _saved_ money, time and manpower.

The mere act of making code open (or object-oriented) does not make 
people reuse it. I am constantly amazed by the amount of available 
information, and am disturbed by how few people take advantage of it.

Almost every company *does* reinvent the wheel -- and that can not be 
legitimately blamed on closed-source software. Witness the massive 
duplication of effort in the free software community -- KDE, Gnome, and 
other "desktops" being a salient example. Egos, license disputes, 
business concerns, and technical choices lead to duplication of effort; 
as a former evangelist of object-oriented programming, I'm more than 
aware that it is not technology that prevents code re-use, but psychology.

-- 
Scott Robert Ladd
Coyote Gulch Productions (http://www.coyotegulch.com)
Professional programming for science and engineering;
Interesting and unusual bits of very free code.


  reply	other threads:[~2003-06-22  0:58 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 224+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-05-30  8:04 SCO's claims seem empty Martin List-Petersen
2003-05-30 13:01 ` Paul Rolland
2003-05-30 20:20   ` Mark Mielke
2003-05-31 23:06   ` brian
2003-06-01  7:56     ` Paul Rolland
2003-06-01  9:22       ` Lionel Elie Mamane
2003-06-01  9:38         ` Markus Plail
2003-06-01  9:59           ` Adrian Bunk
2003-06-01  9:40         ` Riley Williams
2003-06-01 10:00           ` Michael Frank
2003-06-02  0:03           ` Horst von Brand
2003-06-01  9:40         ` Nicolas Vollmar
2003-06-01  9:58           ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-06-01  9:55         ` Adrian Bunk
2003-06-01  9:56         ` Michael Frank
2003-06-01 12:34           ` Paul Rolland
2003-06-01 12:52       ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-06-02  0:15       ` Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-02  1:19         ` Horst von Brand
2003-06-02 11:10           ` uaca
2003-06-02 11:24             ` Stefan Smietanowski
2003-06-06 12:31               ` Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-06 15:13                 ` Alan Cox
2003-06-06 16:22                   ` Paul Rolland
2003-06-06 17:20                     ` Richard B. Johnson
     [not found]                     ` <5.2.0.9.2.20030607044649.00cd4590@pop.gmx.net>
2003-06-18 17:36                       ` Sco vs. IBM Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-18 17:58                         ` Luigi Rosa
2003-06-18 19:07                           ` James Simmons
2003-06-18 19:19                             ` Rick Franchuk
2003-06-18 19:39                             ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-06-18 19:53                               ` Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-18 20:28                                 ` Tom Diehl
2003-06-18 21:04                                   ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-06-19  0:20                           ` Werner Almesberger
2003-06-19 11:04                             ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-06-19 12:00                               ` Magnus Solvang
2003-06-19 12:45                                 ` jdow
2003-06-19 12:57                                   ` Magnus Solvang
2003-06-19 13:03                                     ` Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-19 13:14                                       ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-19 13:29                                         ` Thorsten Körner
2003-06-19 23:39                                           ` jdow
2003-06-19 14:14                                         ` Adrian Bunk
2003-06-19 16:34                                           ` Miquel van Smoorenburg
2003-06-19 16:59                                             ` Troll Tech [was Re: Sco vs. IBM] Larry McVoy
2003-06-19 17:13                                               ` ismail (cartman) donmez
2003-06-20  3:12                                               ` [OT] " Werner Almesberger
2003-06-20 10:09                                                 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-20 14:24                                                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 14:30                                                     ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 14:59                                                       ` Michael Poole
2003-06-20 15:34                                                         ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 15:50                                                           ` Lawrence Walton
2003-06-20 16:02                                                             ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 16:13                                                               ` Jeff Garzik
2003-06-20 16:33                                                                 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-21  1:31                                                                   ` Werner Almesberger
2003-06-21 12:20                                                                   ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-21 13:38                                                                     ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-21 14:10                                                                       ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-21 17:05                                                                         ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-06-21 17:54                                                                           ` David Weinehall
2003-06-23  8:54                                                                       ` David Woodhouse
2003-06-23 13:22                                                                         ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 13:32                                                                           ` David Woodhouse
2003-06-23 13:37                                                                             ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 14:04                                                                               ` David Woodhouse
2003-06-23 14:09                                                                                 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 14:26                                                                                   ` David Woodhouse
2003-06-24  9:51                                                                                   ` David Blomber
2003-06-23 13:54                                                                           ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2003-06-23 13:58                                                                             ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 15:34                                                                               ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2003-06-23 15:40                                                                                 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 16:13                                                                                 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-06-23 14:30                                                                           ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-06-23 15:06                                                                             ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 15:32                                                                               ` David Woodhouse
2003-06-23 15:39                                                                                 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 15:59                                                                                   ` Alan Cox
2003-06-23 16:13                                                                                   ` David Woodhouse
2003-06-26 17:45                                                                                   ` Adrian Bunk
2003-06-26 18:40                                                                                     ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26 19:10                                                                                       ` David Weinehall
2003-06-26 19:13                                                                                         ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-27 12:51                                                                                       ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-23 15:43                                                                               ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-23 15:59                                                                                 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-23 16:36                                                                                   ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-23 19:16                                                                                   ` Werner Almesberger
2003-06-23 16:02                                                                               ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-06-23 16:11                                                                               ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-06-23 16:16                                                                                 ` Alan Cox
2003-06-23 16:35                                                                                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-24 22:29                                                                               ` Timothy Miller
2003-06-24 18:18                                                                 ` Timothy Miller
2003-06-20 17:02                                                           ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-20 23:27                                                           ` Paul Mackerras
2003-06-20 16:41                                                       ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-20 16:45                                                         ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 19:35                                                           ` John Alvord
2003-06-21 13:46                                                           ` Paul Jakma
2003-06-23 12:23                                                             ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-20 14:44                                                     ` Nick LeRoy
2003-06-20 15:17                                                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 15:49                                                         ` Nick LeRoy
2003-06-20 16:58                                                         ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-20 17:01                                                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 17:21                                                             ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-20 15:18                                                     ` Werner Almesberger
2003-06-20 15:24                                                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-20 15:57                                                         ` Jeff Garzik
2003-06-23 19:30                                                         ` Werner Almesberger
2003-06-25  0:31                                                         ` Robert White
2003-06-25  1:21                                                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-25  3:35                                                             ` Werner Almesberger
2003-06-25  3:37                                                               ` Werner Almesberger
     [not found]                                                             ` <PEEPIDHAKMCGHDBJLHKGKECCDBAA.rwhite@casabyte.com>
2003-06-25  3:49                                                               ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-25 10:11                                                                 ` Mike Galbraith
2003-06-25 11:32                                                                 ` David Woodhouse
2003-06-25 22:47                                                                   ` Timothy Miller
2003-06-26  0:07                                                                     ` Robert White
2003-06-26  0:27                                                                       ` David Lang
2003-06-26  1:09                                                                         ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26  3:29                                                                           ` Robert White
2003-06-26 13:44                                                                             ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-26  7:18                                                                           ` David Schwartz
2003-06-26 11:20                                                                           ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-26  3:24                                                                         ` Paul Jakma
2003-06-26 11:20                                                                         ` Daniel Phillips
2003-06-26 13:54                                                                         ` Horst von Brand
2003-06-26 22:34                                                                       ` Timothy Miller
2003-06-26 22:55                                                                         ` Robert White
2003-06-25 20:35                                                                 ` Robert White
2003-06-25 21:09                                                                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-25 23:05                                                                     ` David Schwartz
2003-06-26  1:14                                                                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26  2:45                                                                         ` David Schwartz
2003-06-26  3:16                                                                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26  3:38                                                                         ` Robert White
2003-06-26  3:50                                                                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26 12:20                                                                         ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-06-26 14:45                                                                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26 15:16                                                                             ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-06-26 22:49                                                                       ` Timothy Miller
2003-06-27  1:17                                                                         ` David Schwartz
2003-06-27  1:24                                                                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26 10:50                                                                     ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-26 20:41                                                                       ` Robert White
2003-06-26 20:50                                                                         ` David Lang
2003-06-26 21:02                                                                           ` Robert White
2003-06-26 23:45                                                                             ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-27  0:14                                                                               ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-27  0:24                                                                                 ` Davide Libenzi
2003-06-27  0:57                                                                               ` Robert White
2003-06-27 11:40                                                                                 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-30 18:20                                                                                 ` Timothy Miller
2003-06-26 20:52                                                                         ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26 21:39                                                                           ` Robert White
2003-06-26 22:48                                                                             ` John Alvord
2003-06-26 21:50                                                                           ` Robert White
2003-06-27 11:00                                                                           ` Alan Cox
2003-06-25 21:27                                                             ` Timothy Miller
2003-06-21 12:28                                                       ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-20 15:46                                                     ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-20 17:31                                                       ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-06-21  7:37                                                       ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-06-21 12:34                                                         ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-21 12:55                                                           ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-06-21 13:06                                                             ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-21 13:11                                                             ` Matthias Schniedermeyer
2003-06-23 12:16                                                             ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-23 12:44                                                               ` Alan Cox
2003-06-23 13:05                                                                 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-20 16:27                                                     ` Helge Hafting
2003-06-21  7:50                                                       ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-06-21 21:49                                                         ` [OT] Troll Tech Jan Rychter
2003-06-21 22:02                                                           ` Russell King
2003-06-22  1:47                                                           ` Horst von Brand
2003-06-22 14:41                                                             ` Daniel Phillips
2003-06-22  9:24                                                           ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2003-06-23 13:06                                                         ` [OT] Re: Troll Tech [was Re: Sco vs. IBM] Krzysztof Halasa
2003-06-20 19:36                                                     ` Greg KH
2003-06-20 20:12                                                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-21  0:04                                                     ` Frank Cusack
2003-06-21  0:46                                                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-21  8:01                                                   ` Martin Diehl
2003-06-21 11:39                                                     ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-21 11:53                                                       ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-06-21 12:08                                                         ` Andrey Panin
2003-06-21 19:03                                                   ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-06-21 19:54                                                     ` Michael Poole
2003-06-21 22:13                                                     ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-22  1:12                                                       ` Scott Robert Ladd [this message]
2003-06-22 10:30                                                         ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-06-23  2:00                                                     ` Werner Almesberger
2003-06-19 20:54                                             ` Sco vs. IBM Robin Rosenberg
2003-06-21  8:03                                             ` Holger Freyther
2003-06-21  8:12                                               ` Martin Diehl
2003-06-19 12:08                               ` Thorsten Körner
2003-06-19 14:59                               ` Bruce Ferrell
     [not found]                         ` <3EF0ABB8.40007@coyotegulch.com>
2003-06-18 18:17                           ` Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-19  6:54                             ` Dominik Kubla
2003-06-18 18:37                         ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-06-18 21:43                         ` Grzegorz Jaskiewicz
2003-06-06 22:17                   ` SCO's claims seem empty Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-06 22:33                   ` Rob Landley
2003-06-12 10:20                   ` Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-02 11:39             ` Marcus Metzler
2003-06-03  0:42           ` Raimundo Bilbao
2003-05-30 21:16 ` SCO's claims seem empty - Open Source Initiative Paper by Eric Raymond Piet Delaney
     [not found] <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306201101240.3705-100000@coffee.psychology.mcmaster.ca>
2003-06-20 15:09 ` [OT] Re: Troll Tech [was Re: Sco vs. IBM] Nick LeRoy
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-06-20 17:12 Watson, Craig
2003-06-20 17:38 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-06-20 17:48 Michael Kalus
2003-06-20 20:28 ` Martin List-Petersen
2003-06-20 20:32 Michael Kalus
2003-06-20 21:04 Tom Lord
2003-06-21  1:22 marcelo
2003-06-26 22:05 Mudama, Eric
2003-06-26 22:19 ` Larry McVoy
2003-06-26 22:21 ` Robert White
2003-06-27 15:08 Watson, Craig
2003-06-27 23:15 ` Robert White

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