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From: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>
To: Jeremy Fitzhardinge <jeremy@goop.org>
Cc: virtualization <virtualization@lists.osdl.org>,
	Jan Beulich <jbeulich@novell.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Roland McGrath <roland@redhat.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Xen & VMI?
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 10:26:36 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20070306092636.GC26073@elte.hu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <45ED2F53.2040101@goop.org>


* Jeremy Fitzhardinge <jeremy@goop.org> wrote:

> You could come up with some shim layer which makes the two interfaces 
> appear similar, and you could spell the name of that shim "VMI".  Or 
> you could call it "paravirt_ops", which is the name we chose.  And you 
> could implement the interface to that layer as a binary ABI, or you 
> could make it a normal source-level Linux kernel interface, which is 
> what we chose to do.

i think you are missing my point.

paravirt_ops is a Linux-internal abstraction that tries to make our life 
easier but it has no relevance whatsoever to an external hypervisor - be 
that Xen, VMWare/ESX or Windows/Longhorn.

What matters is the /ABI/ that the hypervisor uses to talk to a Linux 
guest. In the VMWare/ESX case that's VMI. In the Xen case that's the 
hypercall page call-table ABI or the legacy int $0x82 ABI.

My suggestion would be for Linux to make only a /single/ external ABI 
promise: VMI. (and we can extend it with higher-level paravirt ops, 
etc.)

paravirt_ops has ZERO relevance here... Anyone who suggests that 
paravirt_ops somehow magically hides the ABIs that are behind it (and 
its effects on Linux) is smoking something real funny ;-)

	Ingo

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>
To: Jeremy Fitzhardinge <jeremy@goop.org>
Cc: Zachary Amsden <zach@vmware.com>,
	Rusty Russell <rusty@rustcorp.com.au>,
	virtualization <virtualization@lists.osdl.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Roland McGrath <roland@redhat.com>, Andi Kleen <ak@suse.de>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Jan Beulich <jbeulich@novell.com>
Subject: Re: Xen & VMI?
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 10:26:36 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20070306092636.GC26073@elte.hu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <45ED2F53.2040101@goop.org>


* Jeremy Fitzhardinge <jeremy@goop.org> wrote:

> You could come up with some shim layer which makes the two interfaces 
> appear similar, and you could spell the name of that shim "VMI".  Or 
> you could call it "paravirt_ops", which is the name we chose.  And you 
> could implement the interface to that layer as a binary ABI, or you 
> could make it a normal source-level Linux kernel interface, which is 
> what we chose to do.

i think you are missing my point.

paravirt_ops is a Linux-internal abstraction that tries to make our life 
easier but it has no relevance whatsoever to an external hypervisor - be 
that Xen, VMWare/ESX or Windows/Longhorn.

What matters is the /ABI/ that the hypervisor uses to talk to a Linux 
guest. In the VMWare/ESX case that's VMI. In the Xen case that's the 
hypercall page call-table ABI or the legacy int $0x82 ABI.

My suggestion would be for Linux to make only a /single/ external ABI 
promise: VMI. (and we can extend it with higher-level paravirt ops, 
etc.)

paravirt_ops has ZERO relevance here... Anyone who suggests that 
paravirt_ops somehow magically hides the ABIs that are behind it (and 
its effects on Linux) is smoking something real funny ;-)

	Ingo

  reply	other threads:[~2007-03-06  9:26 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 123+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-03-05 12:06 [patch] paravirt: VDSO page is essential Ingo Molnar
2007-03-05 12:36 ` Avi Kivity
2007-03-05 12:40   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-05 13:00     ` Avi Kivity
2007-03-05 13:32       ` Rusty Russell
2007-03-05 14:28   ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-05 13:48     ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-05 14:58       ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-05 13:59         ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-05 14:10           ` Avi Kivity
2007-03-05 14:10             ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-05 13:28 ` Rusty Russell
2007-03-05 13:38   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-05 14:34   ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-05 13:46     ` [patch] paravirt: re-enable COMPAT_VDSO Ingo Molnar
2007-03-05 13:48     ` [patch] paravirt: VDSO page is essential Ingo Molnar
2007-03-05 20:11     ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-05 20:11       ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-05 20:16       ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-05 20:33         ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-05 20:19       ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-05 20:19         ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-05 20:42         ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-05 20:42           ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-06  0:57   ` Rusty Russell
2007-03-06  1:03     ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-06  1:11       ` Rusty Russell
2007-03-06  1:11         ` Rusty Russell
2007-03-06  1:14       ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-06  1:51         ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-06  1:53           ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-06  1:53             ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-06  8:19             ` Xen & VMI? Ingo Molnar
2007-03-06  8:19               ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-06  8:37               ` Gerd Hoffmann
2007-03-06  8:48                 ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-06  8:52                 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-06  8:52                   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-06  9:03                   ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-06  9:03                     ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-06  9:10                     ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-06  9:10                       ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-06  9:15                   ` Gerd Hoffmann
2007-03-06  9:15                     ` Gerd Hoffmann
2007-03-06  9:34                     ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-06 10:15                       ` Gerd Hoffmann
2007-03-06 10:15                         ` Gerd Hoffmann
2007-03-06 10:26                         ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-06 10:26                           ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-06 11:04                           ` Gerd Hoffmann
2007-03-06 11:59                             ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-06 12:34                               ` Gerd Hoffmann
2007-03-06 15:03                               ` Anthony Liguori
2007-03-06 15:03                                 ` Anthony Liguori
2007-03-06 17:17                                 ` Nakajima, Jun
2007-03-06 17:17                                   ` Nakajima, Jun
2007-03-06 17:32                                   ` Anthony Liguori
2007-03-06 20:37                                   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-06 21:02                                     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-06 21:02                                       ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-06 21:11                                       ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-06 21:11                                         ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-06 21:13                                         ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-06 21:13                                           ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-06 21:20                                           ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-06 21:20                                             ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-06 21:46                                             ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-06 21:46                                               ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-06 21:35                                     ` Nakajima, Jun
2007-03-06 21:35                                       ` Nakajima, Jun
2007-03-07  0:44                                     ` Rusty Russell
2007-03-07  0:54                                       ` Anthony Liguori
2007-03-07  0:54                                         ` Anthony Liguori
2007-03-07  3:06                                       ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-07  8:15                                       ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-07  8:15                                         ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-07  9:17                                         ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-07 11:15                                           ` Thomas Gleixner
2007-03-07 19:14                                         ` Dan Hecht
2007-03-06 16:27                               ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-06 17:11                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-06 17:33                                   ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-07  2:16                                   ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-07  2:16                                     ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-06  9:55                     ` Avi Kivity
2007-03-06 10:23                       ` Gerd Hoffmann
2007-03-06 10:31                         ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-06 19:46                   ` Chris Wright
2007-03-06 19:46                     ` Chris Wright
2007-03-06 20:30                     ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-06 20:30                       ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-06 20:53                       ` Chris Wright
2007-03-06 21:03                         ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-06 21:03                           ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-06 21:28                           ` Chris Wright
2007-03-06 21:28                             ` Chris Wright
2007-03-07  2:35                             ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-07  2:35                               ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-06  9:07               ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-06  9:07                 ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-06  9:26                 ` Ingo Molnar [this message]
2007-03-06  9:26                   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-06 16:42                   ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-06 16:42                     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-06 17:18                     ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-06 17:18                       ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-06 18:04                       ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-06 18:04                         ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-06  7:35         ` [patch] paravirt: VDSO page is essential Ingo Molnar
2007-03-06  7:35           ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-06  7:42           ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-06  7:50             ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-06  7:50               ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-06 18:48             ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-06 18:48               ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-05 14:27 ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-05 21:58   ` Roland McGrath
2007-03-05 22:01     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-05 22:58       ` Roland McGrath
2007-03-05 23:03         ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-06  8:34         ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-06  9:13           ` Roland McGrath
2007-03-06  9:14             ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge

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